Amway Mail

Page 22


Subject: Queensryche, Amway and all things in between...

Wed, 17 Dec 1997

OK, really nothing in between, just Queensryche and Amway.  :-)

[Material snipped about Queensryche, the world's greatest band]

An interesting bit of info for you on Amway...  it seems that one of the
high-level diamonds, Brig Hart, has filed a lawsuit against his upline.
The suit alleges that approximately 2/3 of the money a Diamond gets is a
"kick back" or "bulk deal" on the tools... however, it has always been an
"unofficial" payment, with nothing in writing.  For some reason, Mr. Hart
was cut out of this and is more than slightly upset.  He says that this is
how things have always been done, so it's owed to him even if it isn't in
writing.

What this does is expose Amway as a true pyramid scheme.  Tools are
something only usable within the line of sponsership, and cannot be sold
outside of the group.... thus, whoever is at the end of the chain is stuck
with something with no re-slae value whatsoever.  It's always stressed to
you in the beginning that there is no profit to be made in selling the
tools.

One other thing that you might want to add to your page for the benefit of
anyone looking for more info before getting sucked into Amway - they really
like to hype the "willable and inheritable income" part of the plan.  This
is the part where they say that after you reach a certain level, you can
will your bonuses to your children or whomever, and know that they will be
taken care of.  What Amway doesn't bother telling you, though, is that the
person you will the bonus to has to sign up as a distributor and take over
your business and maintain whatever level of sales were required to earn
the bonus in the first place.  So much for taking care of your 10-year old
kid if you were to die unexpectedly, huh?

Ryche & Roll,
*****

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Thu, 18 Dec 1997

Amway cost me my best friend, confidant, big brother figure, and #1
drinking buddy from college.

He got out of school a few years before I did and was sposored into
Amway by another engineer at General Dynamics (now Lockheed) in Fort
Worth, Texas.  I was shown the plan while still in college and signed on
with the understanding that I was going to finish my engineering degree
that was one year away, then start working the business.  I bought some
books and tapes, but didn't get on SOT.  Went to some functions, but
none of the biggies.  Despite pressure from my
best-friend-and-upline-sponsor to work the business, I figured the
4-year investment of time and money I made in my college education was
more important at the time so it had a higher priority.

The beginning of the end came for me during the summer of either 1990 or
1991.  I had sponsored a friend from college into Amway, and he was much
more enthusiastic than I was.  Before too long, I didn't see much of my
sponsor anymore, calls to him weren't returned, etc.  The last straw
came during that summer when the friend I sponsored was the one who told
me my sponsor, my best friend before Awmay, had moved out of state.
What makes it worse was that it would have been a LOCAL CALL for my
sponsor to tell me.  Two minutes to say "We're moving.  Here's our new
address and phone number" was all I would have wanted, even if left on
the answering machine.  I saw my sponsor a few years later at a college
reunion function and privately asked him why he didn't call me to tell
me he was moving, and that I hoped that I was more that just another
Amway cold contact prospect to him.  His reply was that he was a
businessman with a lot of people to call, and that people who weren't in
business with him were on a lower priority to get called, and I must
have fallen through the cracks.  In retrospect, since I wasn't making
money for him at the time, I guess I wasn't even his friend any more.

I maintained my distributorship in name only for a few more years
debating whether or not to reactivate it.  I guess the real reason I
kept sending in my renewal fee was to get Amagram to see whether or not
he had acheived any level of recognition within Amway.  I finally
dropped it for good in 1993 or 1994.  After some 5 or so years in Amway,
I couldn't find even a record of him reaching silver producer level by
that time.... and he was "core" all the way... went to all the functions
and all the night owls, read all the books, listened to all the tapes,
dressed and talked the part completely.... but it took him over 5 years
to reach silver, if he has even reached it yet.

Still, I hope he makes millions.  I hope he's retired by now.  I hope he
gets everything out of it that he wants.  So Doug, if you stumble across
this whether it's in your retirement or whether it's from your J.O.B.,
drop me a line.

		

Subject: New Anti-Amway Site

Thu, 18 Dec 1997

Right now it is a mainly a collection of links.  However, in the future,
we hope to add some original essays. The address is:

http://www.infidels.org/activist/current/rrr/amway/position-amway.html

		

Subject: Amway

Fri, 19 Dec 1997

Hello.
My name is *****. My wife and I were Amway distributors fof three years. (This
year being the last. I won't renew.)

And I just wanted to thank you for your site and quickly share with you some
of my thoughts regarding Amway.

First, the reason I'm quiting is because I finally reached my rope's end with
my up-line. My wife and I decided to have her stop working and come home to
be a full-time mother to our 3 year-old. I needed to cut costs and trim my
budget so I called my sponser to cansel my S.O.T. My sponser gave me heck. He
said tha it would take 4 weeks to cansel and I would just have wait. But in
the mean time I hould think it over. B.S.!!!!! I will never have anything to
do with Amway again!

Sincerely,

*****
(Winner by definition,ex-Amway cult member. Ummmmmmm Ummmmmm)

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Fri, 19 Dec 1997

Hey! Thank you very much for the info, a Amway representative a "friend"
Actually someone who usually would not give me the time of day, was at our
house today. I was pumped up with enthusiasm, until I decided to "surf" the
net on the subject and found you. Thanks!

		

Subject: amway page...

Fri, 19 Dec 1997

Hey Russell,

    Your Amway page was such a trip that I felt compelled to drop you a
note. Like you, I graduated this past year in June from the Univ. of
Michigan (almost went to UCSD 'cause the campus is nice) and am working
at a start-up. I've already been approached by two people to join Amway
(or more specifically, Worldwide Dream Builders.) Thought it was
interesting but didn't really go for the "spend lots of time now to
build your business, so you can have lots of time later and retire
early" deal. By the time I would be done building my business, my
friends would be gone, well, except maybe my up and downline.
    The weirdest thing that struck me was the amount of support
materials they wanted me to get, and I hadn't even joined yet. Granted,
they would give a few to me on the house, so I wouldn't have to shell
out money. Actually, the couple that wanted me as part of their downline
were pretty nice; it might've been an elaborate facade, but I think that
they were genuinely friendly but were involved in the wrong business.
The pervasive drive of getting money is a little freaky too; the
clone-like personalities of everyone is also funny. Strange how a couple
million people are in this business.
    Maybe if I have the time, which is unlikely, I'll join and see what
all these events are all about and try and save a couple of people from
the fires of Amway. A noble thought but unlikely to come to pass.
Anyway, good job on this page, and good luck with your career. And who
knows, maybe you'll save a "Heather" that's more receptive to your
message.

		

Subject: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Fri, 19 Dec 1997

Hey Russell,
        I just sent this to Sidney, but I realized that since Amway has alledgedly
threatened to squash him like a cockroach, it may never get to a letters
page.  Could you throw this up when you have the time :).

        I get a Product Alert subscription since I work for a company that
produces consumer products.  I thought you might enjoy this:  (Nov 3, 1996
v.14, no.21 - On the Alert)

"Once a best seller in the Korean Market, Amway Dish Drops Now Under Attack.

Under the auspices of the Anti-Amway Committee, 82 Korean consumer groups
and environmental activists published a list of charges against Amway,
charging that the U.S. based company is misleading Korean consumers by
advertising its products as environmentally-friendly and of improperly
using the close ties between friends and neighbors in South Korean society
to sell their goods.  To support this, the group conducted tests which
showed Amway's Dish Drops were less biodegradable than Korean products.  As
a result of these charges, about half of the distributors through which
Dish Drops were available have discontinued distribution, and the Amway
brand has experienced a 64 percent drop in sales, falling from 36 billion
Won in January to 13 billion Won in August."

Kinda warms your heart, doesn't it?  If one of the mirror sites is putting
up new material, please let me know which so I can send them a copy too.

On your side against the Amborg,
R

And just because they may have squashed the main cockroach, it doesn't mean
that dozens or hundreds more aren't going to come out of the wood work.

		

Subject: i feel i may be at risk. HELP

Sat, 20 Dec 1997

I have spent over an hour reading your Amway responses, and have become
concerned.  I have been researching the "newest buisness opportunity of the
90's", Market America.  I am hoping that you have information about them or
know someone that does.  They feel that they have improved on the Amway system
with a 2 x infinity matrix, and are confident in thier product quality and
prices.  But I of course I need to know for sure before I feel like I can
commit.  I am paticularly interested in a Better Buisness Bureau web site that
would be able to list any complaints about them.  As well as any specifics
about who thier market reasearch company is, and the methods that they use to
insure that thier products will actually "sell themselves".

Thank you for having such an informative page, it has provided be with lots of
new questions to ask my would be sponsors.  I have added it to my favorite
places list.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sat, 20 Dec 1997

Don't underestimate the service you are performing.  Your account of
surviving Amway's assault will benefit more people than you realize.

Best of luck in your career from a fellow programmer.

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Sun, 21 Dec 1997

Are you completely down on network marketing, or just Amway?

Reason I ask is I really do not care for Amway, their products, or their
distribution system. I don't see how anyone would want to drive to
another persons home to pick up products. What the hell is the
difference between that and going to the store?

However, I think this is why most people bomb in Amway.

I currently use natural products that do not have SLSs, aluminum, or Prp
Glcl in them ---- since I am aware of the chemical consequences.
I order these directly from this company. If I refer people to this
company, I will be paid a commission. I don't know if I will take
advantage of this, but I definately know that I won't have to hold goofy
house meetings, rally's, and other wackky stuff.

Don't let those inefficient, out-dated goofs rain on your parade ---- go
start another business with a state-of-the-art company or start your own
company.

All the Best!!!!!


Subject: Re: Your Amway page...

Sun, 21 Dec 1997

> Are you completely down on network marketing, or just Amway?

        I believe network marketing to be base on a fundamentally flawed and
misleading concept.  Amway just happens to be the one that I chose to
focus on.  I've caught glimpses of Excel, Equinox, and others, and I
think an MLM company does not make its base more solid by doing "high
tech" things.

        Let me direct you to a web page somebody else wrote, which echoes my
views on the broad concept of network marketing.  The address is
"http://www.best.com/~vandruff/mlm1.html".

> Don't let those inefficient, out-dated goofs rain on your parade ---- go
> start another business with a state-of-the-art company or start your own
> company.

        I do not intend to let Amway "rain on my parade" as far as network
marketing goes... I do not think it's a valid idea, so I don't do it.  I
have every intention of starting a real company someday.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 21 Dec 1997

GREAT PAGE!!!!..I have never been in Amway or even solicited, but I am
glad to see someone exposing it for the scam that it is.

		

Subject: Thanks

Mon, 22 Dec 1997

Russ,
      a old "friend" of mine approached me about getting in Amway.  Being a
bit skeptical, I searched the web and found your enlightening story.  Not only
did my wife and I get a chuckle out of it, your story opened our eyes and
helped us avoid making a mistake.  Thanks for taking a stand for something
that you believe in.

		

Subject: Someone please give me some help

Tue, 23 Dec 1997

To Whom it May Concern,

My name is ***** and I am 21 years old. Recently, a man named
***** came to my home and presented information about a company named
"Excel Communications." The impression he gave was that this company was a
"legal" pyramid. Larry told me that the first step towards progression in this
company was to pay a fee of 220 dollars and to then get a certain number of
people under me. I was told that i would make unbeleivably high amounts of
money in a short time. I would only have to do two things. One thing i would
be required to do is to get new customers to use "Excel Communications" as
their long distance phone carrier. The other thing would be to attract new
people to act as representatives(just as i would be if i joined). I have
researched MLM's and pyramid schemes and i understand that they are destined
to fail. I do not underdstand how this particular industry will fail though.
If anyone can help to explain to me why a long distance carrier would not
succeed in the industry of MLM, please respond to me and explain breifly.

Thank you, in advance, for your time and consideration regarding this
important matter.

	

As I always say... read the Vandruff page!

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Wed, 24 Dec 1997

Cool site!

I wish I'd had Internet many years ago when I got involved with Amway.
Luckily I found the "Cult of Free Enterprise" book before getting too
deep into it and bailed out.  In 8 years, I've never again heard from my
"upline".  Go figure.

My first clue of the cult-like nature was when they told me I should
stop reading the newspaper because I didn't need to know all that stuff!

		

Subject: Re: Your Amway page...

Thu, 25 Dec 1997

Just a little advice . . . don't wait for someday to come, because more
than likely it won't if you continue to wait. If you're young, like you
sound, than find something you really like and go for it!!!!!!

By the way, I am a 50% partner in my own company with my brother-in-law.
We are merchant bankers providing corporate financial services to small
and large companies. We also provide viatical investment programs for
individual and group clients. It's very lucrative, but specialized.
Most amazingly, I do extremely well and I am only 25 years of age.

Best Wishes!!!!!!

		

Subject: You look just like me!

Fri, 26 Dec 1997

Hey dude,

    I read your Amway page. Pretty scary what you
went through. I have seen some amazing parallels
in my life and yours:

I am a computer programmer.
I look just like you.
I am 5 ft. 6 inches tall (close to your height).
I am pretty close to your age, looks like.
But scariest of all...
I experienced a lot of the mind control techniques
you went through, except in a different form:

I met this gorgeous girl-neighbor in my
apartment complex. I was immediately smitten
with her. We dated and enjoyed each others
company immensely. There was a negative, however.
She was involved in a religion which I find completely
bogus. She tried to "win" me over to the stuff. The
same techniques were applied: Alienation, tearing
down of all  previous ideas and standards,
gift-giving to implied obligation, mental and
emotional "heavy-handling"...

Your story amazingly paralleled what I went through.
...parties in peoples houses (Home Groups).
Emotional meetings (spontaneous fainting and
crying in 'worship' services), flattery (attention through
individual prophecy),...

All that stuff works. I don't mean to discount what
you went through, but I had the added pressure of
"You are disappointing God by not worshipping the
correct way."

Through some miracle, I managed to wrestle myself
away. Somewhere, in the back of my mind, something
was saying "That's Bull. Don't let yourself believe
in this crap. Don't dive over the edge." I had to break
off an engagement with this completely hot chick
to do this. Plus, I had to de-program myself...
But, I saved my life by doing this.

You learned a valuable lesson. Please keep the
Amway page up as long as you can.

		

Subject: interesting

Fri, 26 Dec 1997

I will admit I did not take time to read all of your page but as I browsed
through I am curious about the answer to one question.

Please don't take the time to respond if it is somewhere in here - I will
find time later to read the page entirely.

You don't know me, so it's safe to say you don't have any REAL genuine
concern for me and what I do with my life/future - so what does it matter
to you if I join Amway or not?

You may disagree entirely with my way of life, even my religion, but I
don't see any posted opinions about how I should seriously consider the
"other side" of what I am thinking about doing in those aspects of my life.

I don't understand your motivation - what do you care about what I do and
the company I may keep?

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sat, 27 Dec 1997

Dear Russell--

Bravo on the exceedingly well-written and nicely designed web site!  Good
show!  I have several relatives/friends in the Amway "business", and it is
sad to watch as their pile of tapes/books/rally ticket stubs grows while
their net worth is DECREASING.  This is not a business -- this is a
religion, a philosophy, a way of life.  And it is so sad to see people I
know and care about obsess over becoming rich, while their so-called
business is all the while taking them further and further away from
financial success.

Keep up the good work!

P.S. One of the other major Amway expose sights mentioned to me that Amway
is engaging in heavy-handed scare tactics to shut down websites that are
critical of the Kingdom of Amway.  Have you had any experience along these
lines?  Any negative emails/harassment from Amway?  I am curious and
interested in participating in a constructive response/defense of Free
Speech.

	

So far, no harassment from Amway Legal or anyone else. I'll keep people posted on this.

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)

Sun, 28 Dec 1997

I recently was invited to an Amway open night by my sister who had joined up
with the co.
after being taken to one such night by a brother.  The talk given especially
by a "diamond"
who had just flewn in from overseas, was so uninformative a person would
have to have an
IQ of 1 to have been roped in, but I listened for my sister's sake.
Afterwards we were invited to meet and talk with this guy at a restaurant
nearby, and lo and behold, I was seated opposite.  Conversation ensued, with
people asking this fellow all about his wealth, visible jewellery, and
lifestyle.  My gut instinct told me, "hey, this feels like a set up!", but
my other thoughts were, hey girl, I think you're getting paranoid.
In the time, all of 5 hours, from the entry to the meeting, to the time I
left to go home, no real information was given....I wanted real statistic,
supportive information of their claims,
and got nothing.....I didn't ask though, because something told me to just
sit back and watch the show...........and that's exactly what it was.
My sister's sponsors, a couple, and others, some who actually lived near me
who I didn't know were involved with Amway, offered to come to see me with
the usual speel associated with trying to get someone to join their
group....the guise to help me get rich, and make a fortune in a few years.
This was less than a week ago.  I believed it was a con then, as all pyramid
selling is, but after reading your story, I am assured, and I thankyou from
the bottom of my heart for putting this info in the internet.
                Signed,                  Not taken in so easily

Bacchus Marsh, Victoria,

Australia.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sat, 27 Dec 1997

Russell,

        I read your story with interest. Until searching the web tonight I
didn't know about Amway was so cult-like. Having been involved on the
fringe of a cult myself 20 years ago (Church of Bible Understanding, in
NYC), and done some reading on the subject, I really appreciated your
story. It was very well-written. The descriptions of your mental states
and your emotions were right on - I knew the same creepy feelings, and
you have put them into words very well. Don't change a sentence - it's
excellent.

		

Subject: YourAmwaystory(part2)

28 Dec 1997 02:33:47

Consider yourself flamed.  You didn't even become a distributor, yet
you say you know all about it.  The introduction to the books provided
by the educational program has helped me in my profession (other than
Amway) more than the cost I paid.  The products I have purchased have
been excellent, with a single exception, which they rapidly made good
on.  The help I have received from my upline exceeds anything I have
ever gotten from old friends, with the exception of church members,
which have been exceedingly helpful as well.  In fact, my upline is a
member of my church.


Subject: Re: YourAmwaystory(part2)

Sun, 28 Dec 1997

> Consider yourself flamed.

        Actually in some ways I find your directness very refreshing, since I
get a good many letters which are flames that disguise themselves in
language like "Of course you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't
want to insult you..." and then they do.  So... thank you.

> You didn't even become a distributor, yet
> you say you know all about it.

        Yes, it's true that I say that.  In some ways a person who has observed
something is often more qualified to comment on it than one who has
dived into it... consider a psychiatrist talking about alcoholism,
compared to an alcoholic.

> The introduction to the books provided
> by the educational program has helped me in my profession (other than
> Amway) more than the cost I paid.

        Well, I can respect the fact that you read good books.  Good books can
be read without a "system", but I don't want to belittle your
experience.

> The products I have purchased have
> been excellent

        Obviously that's a matter of opinion... have you done any price
comparisons?

> , with a single exception, which they rapidly made good
> on.  The help I have received from my upline exceeds anything I have
> ever gotten from old friends, with the exception of church members,
> which have been exceedingly helpful as well.  In fact, my upline is a
> member of my church.

        Whether your upline has provided you with help or not is also, in some
ways, open to interpretation.  Has this "help" wound up making you a
profit yet?  After subtracting system expenditures?

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 28 Dec 1997

Dear Russell,
BRAVO dude!!!!

Your story was truly amazing and I know that THOUSANDS more people will
be reading it.

I too was approached by Amway people about three years ago.  I almost
fell for thier pitch but luckily, did some research and talked to some
people I know, and learned the truth in time.

My best friend however, did not.  Unfortunately, she and her husband are
still in Amway (almost three years now).  They are still living in the
same house, driving the same cars, and he is still working at the same
job.    HMMMMMM....??????  Gee, wish I would have spent tons of time and
money in three years,  trying to recruit people who are mostly
uninterested, and going to meetings and conferences (5 hours from home)
to be in exactly the same spot and making not even a penny more.
Try to bring up up these things to them though and you'd think I told
them Charles Manson was running to be the next Pope.
Anyway, I have pretty much lost this friend.  I can't stand hearing
about "the business".  It makes me want to puke.

Anyway, think I'll go and let all my internet friends know about your
page.  KEEP THE STORY GOING!!!!!!!!!!

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Sun, 28 Dec 1997

Good Amway page.  If you are interested I have created a new Amway page
tilted "The Broke-Loser Family" page.  This basically details my family's
experience in the business.  I have also put a link to your page on the
site.

Take care,

Mr. Broke Loser


Subject: Re: Your Amway page...

Mon, 29 Dec 1997

Well, it might be nice if you would let me know the URL.  ;)

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Mon, 29 Dec 1997

Very Interesting!  We have had the same problems with my brother-in-law.
He has totally alienated his family and friends.   Through his shallow
rhetoric, you can tell he is really a very unhappy person.  I feel sorry
for the day he finally realizes and faces the fact he as been a fool.

I think that is the reason he and most others stay for so long in spite
of utter failure, because they do not want to face being a total fool.

		

Subject: Equinox

Tue, 30 Dec 1997

Love your page -- a story that needed to be told.

I am a freelance journalist working on a magazine piece about Equinox
International. Do you know anybody who has had experiences with this
group who may be interested in talking about it?

Thanks

Subject: Re: Equinox

Tue, 30 Dec 1997


        Afraid I can't help you out there much... I do get the occasional
letter from someone saying they were with Equinox, but I don't save the
mailing addresses anywhere.
        If you want to dig up some things from the past, I knew there was a
segment on Equinox a year or two ago, in some borderline-sensationalist
news show, maybe Hard Copy or something... I remember the guy had a
really friendly manner and a big mustache, maybe you could pinpoint the
show better than I.  (NOT Geraldo.  Pretty sure, anyway.)
        Equinox's web page is www.equinox.com, of course.  The founder is a
sight to behold... Name's Bill Gouldd, really spelled with two D's
because he says it stands for "dollars", I kid you not.
        One comment: in Amway, there is kind of a decentralization of power,
through the motivational organizations (AMO's) which claim or seem to be
at odds with each other.  In Equinox, there is ONE top dog, and he is
considered a deity above all the other minor guys.  This is a good angle
to consider if you are interested in cults.
        Thanks for writing.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Tue, 30 Dec 1997

Just finished reading your story.  Sounds quite familiar.  Have been in
AMWAY for a year and have 60 plus tapes, a couple of kits sitting in the
garage that I was convinced to buy for the hordes of new recruits that WE
were going to sign up, over night kits, tablets of the plan, books on
positive thinking, a couple of thousand miles on my vehicle, a few plane
trips, and no extra money.  The irony of this situation is that I have some
what successful at my own business not only in the dollars earned but I
also enjoy what I do.  For some reason I let these people convince me that
I was not happy and my salvation was AMWAY.
Thanks for the Info.
Just threw my renewal for AMWAY in the circular file.

		

Subject: Amway is a good thing.

Tue, 30 Dec 1997

"If you do good things, people always question your motives."
"If you do great things, people always question your methods."

"But don't let that stop you from doing good and great things."

	

"If you jump up and down and yell at invisible playmates while standing in the park, people always question your sanity."

"But don't let that stop you from playing with your friends."

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Wed, 31 Dec 1997

Interesting Comments. I was prospected by my brother-in-law and was so
excited my wife and I stayed up all night listening to the pitch. Here
was a guy that I had always liked who wanted me to be part of his
organization !

 I don't think it was the money that appealed to me as much as the
independence...be your own boss...set your own hours...retire in 2 years
etc. I learned to draw circles, cold prospect in doughnut shops ( I
actually got good at it) and sponsor people. And I never made a dime. I
was 7 wide and 2 -3 deep and I never made a dime. I spent most of my
free evenings looking for prospects, setting meetings, drawing circles
and I never made a dime. I bought books and tapes, bought only "positive
products" and rented a motor home to take my downline to a rally 250
miles away. And I never made a dime. I went to a "Family Reunion" in
Charlotte, North Carolina, saw Jerry and Sherry Meadows, went to Dexter
Yager's house and got to peek in the windows of his mansion. And I never
made a dime.

I could have lived with all the financial loss but the thing that kept
eating at me was the constant mind control, the manipulation that was
never very far from the surface, the implication that those who didn't
sign up were losers and those who dropped out were quiters. Nothing like
a few labels to keep the folks in line. After I dropped out, my upline
through the direct also quit and the luster began to come off the upline
Diamond. All this happened 10 years or so ago and I'm very glad to be
away from it. I wish you success in your effort to get the word out
although you probably won't have much impact on people who are blinded
by all that "love". The number of Heathers are legion but even if you do
just end up preaching to the choir it ain't all bad.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Wed, 31 Dec 1997

Nice Job with the Amway piece.  I just recently escaped an "opportunity"
with Rexall Showcase International, selling nutritionals, etc.  I started
getting an uncomfortable feeling when they talked more about recruiting
than selling product.  After the put a real hard "close" on me..."act now
or it'll be too late"  I did some research on MLM.  Thank God I did because
it appears that they all follow the same scripts.  Thanks for your efforts.

		

Subject: Amway

Wed, 31 Dec 1997

Hi Rusell,

I actually read most of your AMway story. Very interesting!!! Recently I
had contact with Amway people too. You are right, it is a psychological
game. I said from the start that I was not interested but now they are
trying to get me to give up the names of my friends. The guy just called
me yesterday. He had his higher uppers speak to me and they were very
good -- very effective -- but I knew that it was not something I wanted
to do. Anyway, the guy called me last night to get together and I told
him I am very busy and that I will call him when I am free. But after
reading what you experienced and your perceptions I definitely will tell
him NO! I do not have names and numbers to share with you!!.

Great story. Unfortunately a lot of people fall for this scheme.


Happy New year!

		


Subject: your Amway story (part 2)

Wed, 31 Dec 1997

This is no Flame

Great Job on your research.

Let me tell you my story.

I'm a programmer in Buffalo NY.  I do a lot of side jobs to supplement my
income.  I code and install hard/software anything from keeping my wife
from working while she raises our child.

Last Sunday I got a call from a Jeff Martin and he said he was referred by
a friend, I asked who the friend was, and he said he didn't know (this
raised a red flag)  but he would provide the name of the friend if we had a
meeting.
 He said he needed computer work done in the Buffalo area because he was
expanding his business.  I said great I do side work all the time, lets
meet.  He suggest the next night, (flag number two; no business person has
ever given me such short notice) I thought this must be a big deal or
Amway.
I told my wife this was probably Amway.

The next night I meet at a coffee shop.  We meet and a ask again who
referred my name. He used a name from a past employee (flag three time I
never got along with this person he mentioned)
So I tell him my background and he tells me he is a dentist etc ... and
then he repeats a name over and over like this person is greater than he. I
really got suspicious them.  So was direct, What work do you want done,
programming, networking, etc.. He said, you could get into computers but
you could also become very wealthy.  I started to boil at this point.
In my life time I have been recruited for Amway many time but this was the
lowest yet.
I have a real bad temper so I could not hold it any longer.  I told this
guy off for at least 5 minutes. Swearing and yelling and telling him he
should be with his family not trying to screw people out of their homes and
away from their families. I told this jerk that I will send him a bill for
$55.00 for consulting time that he requested.

The next day I called the person that supposedly gave my name to the Amway
rep.  He denies and assures me that he would never think giving my name as
a reference.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Thu, 01 Jan 1998

Dear Russel,

Thanks for what you have shared.  I have a son in law who is a well
educated teacher (masters in school administration) with many years
teaching experience in several schools.
He is now hooked on the ww dreambuilders program and has already spend
lots of money on training, tapes, seminars etc.
He wants to be a Diamond and give up his carrier as a teacher in a few
years. He wants to make it and is totally absorbed in Amway. He knows
how I think about it and has now choosen to avoid all converstaion about
Amway. I am in a way an alien to his family. He is setting up a special
office and answering service, computer, photo copier, scanner etc
equipment. Toyalling over 1000 dollars. I cannot stop him.

By the way my wife and I have worked for about half a year on Amway and
got out in time. The total indoctrination into the Amway cult is taking
place.
I am waiting for the time that he either makes it, or totally crashes. I
will have to be ready for either moment and remain in the meantime
prepared to accept what comes and help wherever and whenever I can.

Thanks again for the info you gave me. Too bad my son needs it but will
never read it.

Greetings and best wishes for 1998

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Thu, 1 Jan 1998

Bravo!!!!!

        I enjoy your site! I had a very similar experience in Amway. I was "in"
for a little over 5 years and don't have a dime to show for it.
        I liked the products, but hated the system. I was in the Britt line and
hated the way they kept changing the rules and procedures, "to make it
better" they would tell me. How could it be better if I was confused all
the time?
        One of the things they told me was that if I wanted to succeed, I had to
find someone(who was in the business) that was where I wanted to be and
duplicate his actions. But it seemed that every time I would duplicate this
persons actions, they would tell me "we don't do it that way, here is the
way we do it" Is this confusing or what?
        I also felt very misled, when I first saw "the plan" I was led to believe
that all I had to do was change my buying habits and the plan called for me
to do 100pv per month(and you know the rest of the plan). But, when they
got my money and I got in they told me I really should do 300pv per
month!!!!! What's this crap!!!!!!!!!!!
        I really wish I could have back all the money I spent on those stupid
Dream Weekends, then I would not need a business, I WOULD BE RICH!!!!!!!!

		

Subject: FinishedyourAmwaystory...

Fri, 2 Jan 1998

I find your story interesting mostly because I felt very alone after my experience
with AMWAY I lost everything with AMWAY the stories they never tell
in one of there draw the circle meetings is how much it cost people
in the end and how much they will loss friends, family, HUSBANDS, AND
MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
at least I am glad to see I am not alone out here, that others can
see it, and know what it is.

		

Subject: amway

Sat, 03 Jan 1998

i can relate to your story. i have a cousin that had a nice thing going
for himself -- two restaruants a nice house and a good marriage. he
wasn't RICH but he wasn't hurting either. then he met up with the amway
people. every time i spoke with him he was telling me about the last
meeting he attended in las vegas or florida and the next one he had
reservations for. he tried his best to recruit me but i kept telling him
most of the items that you mention in your story --- how can anyone make
money if there isn't a lot of product sold??? no matter how many times
he explained it he would stop about half way and say --- you just have
to come to a meeting their are people there that can explain the
business a lot better than me!!! well needless to say about a year of
chasing this dream and not tending to business cost him dearly. he lost
his two real businesses, then his wife, house ... well you get the
picture. keep telling your story .... it needs to be told.

		

Subject: your amway article

Sun, 04 Jan 1998

Mr. Glasser--

It's about six in the morning.  Half-an-hour ago, I decided to take a
cigarette break and check my e-mail.  As usual, there was nothing for
me.  So, with plenty of tobacco still to go, I started looking over some
webpage about skeptics that was left on my browser from earlier in the
day.

I don't know why I clicked on your Amway link. Only in passing had I
ever heard of Amway, and I had no interest in them.  However, I was
instantly fascinated as I began to read  your article-- an informative
one yes, but also zesty and entertaining with excellent prose.  I
laughed out loud at some of your witty comments within the dialogue and
was really in suspense during the final scene at the restaurant with
Phil.

I should add that I started my cigarette break puffing a bit more
quickly than usual, because I was anxious to get back to my video--
Alfred Hitchcock's "The Man Who Knew Too Much".  But your story won.
Rarely-- almost never-- would I bother to read on the Internet a big
article.  This letter to you was therefore a must.

Thank you so much, and good luck to you in your future plans...

Sincerely,

*****
     (a senior studying english and economics at Ohio State U.)

Now.. I get back to Al and that beauty, Doris Day.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 4 Jan 1998

Hi Russell,

That was a wonderful piece. I am an environmental engineer and m,y wife
an MBA. My upline is a fortune 500 management consultant. I cannot tell
you how pleased I am to read this before I parted with $ 200 odd for the
starter kit - which is lying in my house and my upline expects money
tomorrow. My wife was skeptical all through but I wanted to give it a
try for the Residual income stuff. I sat searched 20 pages of Altavista
Netsearch to come up to your page and the decision was made.

Thanx very much. I am marking the URL of your page to some of my friends
(potential grabs) and my upline(?).

Hard work is the only way to go.

		

Subject: URGENT

Sun, 04 Jan 1998

Hi :
This is urgent.
I knew a friend in New Jersey who gave me these amway materials and 2
tapes. I had visited New Yoerk actually and went to NJ to meet him.

He is very nice guy by nature.
After I came back to St.Louis, he gave my nos to anothey person whoi
called me one day and he happens to be from my country and my state ! as
m friend in NJ.
Tell, me what I should do now. I dont want to upset my firnd in NJ.

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Sun, 04 Jan 1998

LOL! Im not an amway distributor anymore.. I was too lazy and
comfortable to do anything to better myself.
Your little story was entertaining though... studying to be a creative
writer are you? LOL

		

Subject: My reply to your Amway page

Mon, 5 Jan 1998

I just wish I had seen your web page before I signed up a couple of years
ago. It would have saved me a lot of time, effort, and money (not to mention
friends!!).  Maybe someday I'll be able to free my sister.  Keep up the
page!!!!

		

Subject: Your Page

Mon, 05 Jan 1998

eh Russ...

I just read your story, and wanted to write a note.

I am not involved with Amway at all, but find MLM businesses quite
fascinating.     My cousin in Hawaii is involved. I am not sure how deep
he is, but he seems to make money for his wife and 2 kids.   I am not an
expert in this area, and often get approached to join.

There is no doubt in my mind, that MLM does work if your downline is
quite large. (please tell me if I am wrong tho in thinking this)  But ,
I don't understand (by reading your feedback from others), how people
could make $ from having no sponsors...

Do you have any links to where I can find some stuff from the TV
expose's that outline the trials and tribulations of dealing with MLM
companies?    The internet is a  good source, but I'm looking for more
than just independant opinions.. I think W5 had an expose on this issue.
CNN too maybe?  I dunno..

Anyways.. I hope your putting your coding to good use... Become a
consultant and charge $500 a day.. hehe.. thats what I was told to do,
but yet to do it... since I'm working in the Canadian Govt. and getting
training out the wazoo :)

Anyways.. later eh!Take care .

		

Subject: From one of your fans

Mon, 05 Jan 1998

** High Priority **

Through a nonsensical series of clicks, I ended up reading
your Amway tales some months ago.  I also found my way
to your homepage and decided to respond to your invitation
to send you email...for no other reason than that I enjoyed
the personality that came through in your writing, and I
thought I'd let you know...and I'm at work and it's the Monday
after New Year's and I'd rather be writing anonymous email
than dealing with the files in front of me...

Interestingly enough, I had absolutely no interest in or
knowledge of Amway before I stumbled onto your story, but
after reading about your experience, I followed the other links
and found out a lot more about the company.  And then,
wouldn't you know it, the very next day I was having my hair
cut by my absolute favorite stylist, and he starts telling me
about his new Business.  I am immediately on the alert, but I
think to myself, "No, it couldn't be."  Sure enough, though,
when I flatly ask him, "Oh, you mean Amway?" he admits
that yes, it's Amway, but it's not my father's Amway.  And he
proceeds to tell me all about how I should come to a
meeting, and how he and his wife paid off their mortgage with
their first Amway check and how great it is and...you know
the pitch.  Of course I know that he must be blowing hot air,
must be telling me a pack of lies, but the one thing that was
different about his story was that he's from South Africa and
his Amway endeavors involve being the one to bring "the
Business" to South Africa a few months ago.  Supposedly,
he signed up 5,000 people in his first presentation.

He spends the rest of my haircut time urging me to come to
a meeting, and I'm sitting there in the chair firmly telling him
I'm not interested.  It's almost uncomfortable and coercive
enough to make me want to find another stylist...but I am
vain and like the way he does my hair and can tolerate his
sales pitches.  For now, anyway.

At least because of your page and the others, I was armed
with the truth about Amway.  Thanks.

		

Subject: My reply to your Amway page

Mon, 05 Jan 1998

Dear Russell,

The only reason I'd like to email you is to question your own
behavior about your interaction with Phil and Ted and Heather, etc.
You claim to have been very upset (made you squirm) when you
wrote Part 3 of your story.

You were working on being just as deceptive as you said the
Amway people were. You lied. You pretended to be interested. You
showed interest when your goal was to be sneaky. Your actions
were just as underhanded as the others, in my opinion.

I have been researching internet sites about Amway for about a
year. I am interested in the business. My research is pretty
extensive and I have found that the negative sites involve personal
anger and frustration much more than the other sites. I've
researched the company as well as their sites. And I've met Amway
people who are not pushy and deceptive. Many of them.

Do you realize that your research only picked up the negative and
you automatically assumed complete truth in the "cult" stuff? I am
not at all interested in receiving an answer from you or from
anyone pro or con. It just bothered me that you were criticizing and
judging people for being underhanded when that was your game
too.

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)

Tue, 6 Jan 1998

My brother and sister are both Amway distributors and are completely
obsessed with it.  The damage is more apparent with my brother as his kids
very rarely see him and are developing emotional problems.  Every time my
son and I get around them and play with them, they are starved for
affection.  The other day he told me the only people that can buy houses
with cash are Amway distributors.  I said, "listen what you are saying.  Do
you ever compare what Amway taught you to your own common sense."  I admired
my brother and sister as intellectuals as my brother spent 3 years in
college and 6 years in the Air Force and served in Desert Storm.  My sister
holds a Master's Degree in Sociology.  The common theme among them however
is that they were both very unhappy with their jobs.  I do not suffer the
same fate.  My brother and I can't even hold a conversation anymore 'cause
all he wants to do is talk about the tapes and book.  It's strange how
people become so desperate that they will believe anything.  My brother
tryed to rationalize his lack of time with his kids by saying that he would
only spend 2 or 3 hours a day with them anyway.  I don't know how to show
them that it's very damaging.  Any advice?

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Tue, 6 Jan 1998

Bravo!!!!

    I am very glad to see your web page exposing AMWAY for what they really
are.  I have never been in AMWAY personally, but I have several family
members who are heavily involved and I can see the damage AMWAY is doing in
their lives, even if they can't.  I like to think of myself as somewhat of
an expert on cults, being that I was raised in a cult.  AMWAY definitely
fits the bill.  While they may not be the scariest cult around, the damage
they inflict upon people is just as profound as what I went through as  a
child.  I think that it is sad to see that so many people in this world are
preying on other people's dreams and ambitions.  Even sadder is the
overwhelming number of people who lay themselves open to be plundered of
their identity, intelligence, and their very souls.  The absolute worse part
of the whole AMWAY mess, is to see the children of the members.  They are
starved for love and attention, robbed of their parents affection and time.
AMWAY encourages it.......always saying that there will be time enough
tomorrow......when you have reached your goals.  AMWAY is the ultimate
theif.......robbing even the innocent.  But isn't that what all cults do?
Please by all means continue to warn people of the dangers of involving
themselves in a cult,  and AMWAY in particular.

		

Subject: Your Amway story

Wed, 07 Jan 1998

I'm sure that you will be fascinated to learn that the Hairy Kritters in
Atlanta took up Amway a few years back. I guess that they weren't making
enough in the flower biz.

	

Krishna! Krishna! Draawwwwwww circles!

I pledge allegiance to the Reverend Sun Myung Yager...


		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Wed, 07 Jan 1998

Dear Russell

     I found your site most enlightening, as your site is both thorough
and you appear to be a rather intelligent sort of chap, so I have a
question for you.

My wife's sister and brother-in-law have fallen for the entire Amway
spiel, audio tapes, video tapes, meetings every week, out of town
meetings, imposing on family, missed occasions to whole thing.

Have you ever met or known someone who has awoken from the amway stupor,
and what did it finally take to wake them up?

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Wed, 7 Jan 1998

Hi Russell,

Your story is really funny in that it is so truthful and well written.
Just the dose of reality I needed, since one of my friends is "building
dreams". I really hate to be the one to break the news to him, so I'm
going to tell him to read your page.

I'm a software engineer who's doing very well, my favorite form of
residual income is mutual funds!

Anyway, I hope you are coding by now. I'm sure I don't have to tell you
that contractors can make a bundle!

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Thu, 08 Jan 1998

Mr. Glasser,
        BRAVO and KUDOS!!  I found your story extremely interesting because I,
like you, was very close to joining this so-called "business."
Unfortunately, I lack the subdued feelings that you were able to
express.
        My experience took place approximately 4 years ago and I still loath,
despise, and truly hate that company.  I still can not say the "A" word
yet.
        You might say that I am wasting time being upset still with them, but
when mentioned that, that company's business is based on deception,
lies, and people's dreams, you hit a chord inside of me that I will
never forget and how they exploited my dreams and fears.  I even made
the mistake of going to Knoxville, TN to a huge "cult" gathering.  I am
from Sioux Falls, SD, check the map.  Many states separate South Dakota
and Tennessee.  To add to that, my wife and I were not in the best shape
financially to be spending money on a shitty trip like that.
        When the day came that I got out, I told my sponsor(s), J.P. Wallace
and his wife, Patsy, that if I ever saw either one of them in a public
place, I would make it my job to humiliate them like they have never
been humiliated before.  Also, while looking at "Rocket Scientist," J.P.
I informed him that if I ever came across him alone, I would make it my
life's work to rip off his head and spit down his neck.  Amazingly
enough Mr. Glasser, I do not consider myself a violent person!
        In the meantime since that last encounter, I have re-entered college to
finish up my undergrad degree in Economics, Finance, and Marketing.  I
have also decided that there will be a day when I OWN those types of
people!!
        In conclusion, did you not find it amazing that these people have such
a hard time talking about the "Prestigious" corporation they work
for/with?

		

Subject: My reply to your Amway page

Thu, 8 Jan 1998

I have been considering going into amway myself. I have infact listened to
these brainwashing tapes, they speak less of amway and more of business
marketing plans. These plans could be used for any business and are brilliant.
I own my own business and may not join amway for lackof time but what they
have to say is very educational..... by the way on your behalf your are
entitled to have your own opinions and anyone who cant respect them need to
understand that this program isnt for everyone and he does have the right to
dissagree. i do believe he may not agree with my belief but im sure he
respects it as i respect his.

.		

Subject: Your "amway page"

Thu, 8 Jan 1998

>Anyway, I had no desire to join Amway but found myself seriously
>intrigued by them.  Who ARE these people?  How long have they been
>around?

We're people like the others, just decided us to try this business,  and
we had some success ;)

Greetings from Chile

		

Subject: amway: the nightmare

Thu, 8 Jan 1998

Russell:
thank you for your Amway work.  Unfortunately, I wasted  three years,
thousands of dollars, and countless hours in Amway, btwn 93 and 96.  What a
feeling of FREEDOM when I got out!!!   Just this week I discovered your page
and others, and WHAT a RELIEF to see that SO MANY others have experienced what
I have!!!  As you know, 95% of those who send you negative amway defense, will
eventually quit, and join us in agreement to "some" degree.  Many who quit
simply won't admit defeat, or that they wasted their time.  they are too weak
to be honest with themselves, in my opinion....  Anyway, keep up the good
work!!

		

Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998

Hey man, cool Amway piece.  Unfortuantely Ive already been snookered into
the sure fire way to the American Dream.  If you would like, I would be
more than happy to copy and distribute some things from your page.  I
noticed the robots at the meetings and my "upline" preaching about how
tapes, meetings, and videos are essential to success.  Is there any way
that i could get in contact with Paul to tell him that somebody has seen
your site, and has probably turned a convert?

                                                        down with ScAmway!

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Fri, 09 Jan 1998

Read your story with fascination.  Two years ago I was accosted by a
"helpful" co-worker who wanted to know if I wanted to make a lot of
money.  I was a full-time student and full-time+ factory worker whose
major was pre-med.  Since he had been talking about his investments in
the stock market I wrongfully assumed that he meant to show me how he
invested his money.  When he mentioned something about me watching an
informational tape at his house, alarms went off.  I felt very
uncomfortable with his high-pitch tactics and his insistence with
talking to me at every available break at work, and even following me to
my car on my way out the door for a period of several weeks.  I can
relate to your story about the need to study vs the need to be civil to
someone who was trying to be nice, but my hours were extremely limited
and I didn't have time for idle chit chat.  I became more and more
unnerved, but I couldn't put my finger on it.  He tried the "you could
use some extra money couldn't you", "don't you want to be rich" (I
figured I will be well-off after med school), and the famous--"well you
use soap don't you" spiels. (Do you sell Tide? I asked, and received the
our products are concentrated and better answer) He couldn't give me any
definitive answers.  Then an older woman I worked with told me he was
trying to sell Amway and that about 50% of our workforce was involved in
the scam.  I thought that Amway was a pyramid scheme, and so I made
myself perfectly clear to the guy that I wasn't going to get involved in
Amway.  When I mentioned the name Amway and clearly stated my refusal to
join, he left me alone.  Maybe he went about it all the wrong way
(according to Amway's standards) and this led me to feel the discomfort
that helped me get to the bottom of his spiel.  After reading your page,
I can relate to your efforts to educate an unsuspecting public. I wished
I had access to this information earlier as it would have affected my
decision to terminate our "talks" much sooner.  I informed my friends
and co-workers about his scam and what a bad idea I thought it was even
though I didn't have any of the information you took so long to dig up.
If any of my fellow co-workers with internet access are accosted by this
fellow, or any of the other uplinks at our plant, I will refer them to
your page.

Thanks for keeping this page up even in the face of adversity.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Fri, 09 Jan 1998

Russell,
Last night I went to my first Amway meeting with my wife (UK) basically
because we need the extra dough, and was recommended by a work colleague
of my wifes. I knew i had to check the net to see if there was any
adverse sites......your site has really confirmed my suspicions, thanks
ever so much for putting it on the net, thanks, thanks and thrice
thanks!!

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Fri, 9 Jan 1998

Dear Uninformed:

        I am fascinated by someone who spends so much time on something that they
found to be so negative. People who concentrate on the negative live in the
negative. I bet you are thinking negatively about what I am writing right
now. That is up to you and I see how you have chosen to live. I am sorry
that you had such a horrible experience with a particular group of
distributors. Amway, by the way, has no idea how to build the Amway
business. If you are angry about what you heard from people building the
business, then you need to direct your anger at the teaching organization.
Amway provides little or no tactics on building a profitable Amway
business.
        I am also aware that you say you are qualified to talk about the
organization with out ever being involved with the organization. I am not
going to go back and pull apart your report, but I have never heard of some
of the things you are talking about. I can not say that McDonalds is the
epitome of evil just because one location was not doing as they were told
by Ray Krock Enterprises (late McDonalds owner). Just like if a group of
Amway distributors really did things backwards then I would not decide that
all Amway distributors are backwards. I really irritates me that people do
it in a manor that is not taught. It gives the company a bad name and is
off putting to people like you. I can not help their mistakes. All I can do
is to do it right myself, and that is what I am doing. I have lost no money
and never will in this business because I do it the way the teaching
organization teaches me. My biggest problem with Amway is that they are
very traditional. That is not going to keep me from becoming something more
than a slave to the dollar.
        ****The number one problem with your argument is that you are making
claims about the wrong people. Amway does not teach how to build the
business, I state that again. There are separate non-profit organizations
started by people who profited in this business that teach growth skills. I
read your argument because I am a nineteen year old active distributor who
is concerned about why people do not connect with the private franchising
method of marketing. You talked about some strange presentations and
experiences in your essay. I have never experienced some of those things
and my group would never be so immature as to teach those types of tactics
of growth. Please aspire to concentrate more on the positive experiences of
your life and leave the stuff you don't want behind. I really hope you
actually read the responses to your report and that you will get back to
me. We can both learn from each other! Since I have been involved in this
business, my productivity and joy for life have increased. This is not
because I am in a cult or brainwashed. Public schooling brain washed me
more that this does. Lets talk about this! Why did you spend so much time
building a site when you don't even like the subject matter you wrote
about?! Are you afraid that others might succeed where you won't?!

                                                        Going Diamond

		

Subject: Amway Articles

Sat, 10 Jan 1998

Dear Russell Glasser:

Read everything you wrote about Amway, and was curious about your home
page, so I clicked on in.

Back in the early 80's my wife and I were "recruited" to join Amway, but
we declined.  Couple that tried to recruit us were the absolutely
perfect couple living next door.  No kidding. They seemed to live
perfect lives, plus they had a clean house, clean kids, clean lawn,
clean cars, clean dog.  Perfect.

My wife and I declined the recruitment.  First, we were appalled by the
the initial pitch ("we cannot tell you what the business opportunity is
until we meet with you and go over your "dreams").  Secondly, we somehow
could not connect the values espoused with soap and other products.
Finally, in this messy, imperfect world we live in, we could not cope
with such clean perfection.

I am curious to know if you have anything good to say about multi-level
marketing companies.   Are all of them slick and illogical?

May I suggest that if you ever weary of computers and computer
programing, you might take up the written word for a living.  You write
very well indeed.

Best wishes

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)

Sat, 10 Jan 1998

I was a Distributor Relations Coordinator for Amway Corporate World
Headquarters 4 years ago and couldn't stomach the tape and tool business.
My heart goes out to all of the innocent people who have been taken in by
the "pay and obey and ignore your young children for future millions" lies.
 I left the company during the Bob Blanchard regime ( He was the Director
of Distributor Relations at the time of my departure and could be best
described as a combination of Hitler and Bryant Gumbal...Control and ego!).
 (Although Bryant Gumbal has recently redeemed himself in my opinion for
the way he handled the Rev. What's his name, High Priest of Scientology, on
this last week's Public Eye show.)  I'm certain that the
mindlessly-indoctrinated clones in Distributor Relations would have some
less than complimentary things to say about me as well.  That is as it
should be!  Some of it is probably true.  Some isn't.  What matters is that
by the grace of God I've been delivered from that job and am now happily
raising my two young children at home.  God is good!

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sat, 10 Jan 1998

Got back from an Amway meeting tonight sponsored by my brother-in-law
who had some upline there saying the same "line of bull" you talked
about in your story.  (Believe it or not, I read the whole thing!)

Appreciate your time to write the article.  I've always felt that Amway was
a ripoff.  Your story just confirms my feelings.  Thanks.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 11 Jan 1998

Dear Russell,
        I found your story both insightful and funny, and have to compliment you
on what you were able to "discover" in such a short period of time while
never actually becoming an Amway distributor or using their products.  You
appear to be a person very interested in setting the facts straight, so I'd
thought I give you the "benefit" of my experiences and research (if you are
interested!!).
        First off, a quick background on my history as an Amway distributor.  I
was approached by a poker buddy in September of 1993, & was extremely
sceptical of the marketing plan from a financially viable point of view.  I
researched the Amway corporation, not other distributors, and found that
the plan worked (there is an FTC approved form called an SA-44 that gets
into the nitty gritty details; however 99% of all prospects never bother to
really dig into it and what it means.)  I started a distributorship in
October, and from November of 1993 until March of 1997 "showed the plan" to
a minimum of 15 new prospects every month (fewer than 1% of distributors
work at that pace for three consecutive months).  I worked very close with
my direct distributor, and was able to get advice and assistance from 2
others in my upline (who had achieved diamond and crown status,
respectively) on many occasions.  I was treated extremely well, and I
followed the advice given to the best of my abilities.  At its largest, my
group consisted of over a hundred people locally and one "leg" in Chile
that now probably numbers into the thousands.  I am currently inactive, but
still receive anywhere from $200 to $600 a month in bonus's based on the
volume of products purchased throughout my downline.  I will probably renew
my distributorship for years to come.
        What you experienced is both common and foreign in this business.  What I
mean is that each persons' experience is directly based on those people he
has contact with.  As much as many people try to prove otherwise, the Amway
Corporation has very little, if any, influence or control on how a person
operates his distributorship.  The aspect of "teaching the ropes" to
distributors falls squarely with the line of sponsorship.  Therefore, each
diamond distributors group tends to have a different culture based upon the
leadership of that group, and they tend to attract people who like that
culture.  Obviously, you didn't fit with the group you were exposed to !!
(Neither would have I).
        One of the biggest fallacies that is spread is that the larger groups only
make money off of selling motivational books, tapes & meetings.  Anyone
with a business background can pencil out the costs of pulling off such a
setup and realize that these items are run at about cost, and are used to
help increase distributorship.  I laughed when you asked Ted why there were
so many meetings - when you are new, it seems like there is a stupid
meeting every day, but when you are building a group, you need to use these
meetings to expose prospective distributors to the business.  Its one of
those things you have to experience from the inside.
        Having worked very hard at the business, I was able to discover two main
reasons why people don't make alot of money with an Amway business - 1)
They don't make a consistent, sustained effort, or if they do make the
effort, 2) they don't do the right things (or things right) to create a
group.  I fell into the second category.  Building a group is an art, not a
science, and requires the utmost in genuine people skills and love of
people (not the phony manipulation you experienced).  I started the
business fairly anti-social, and being a typical conservative liberatarian,
don't have much of a bleeding heart!!  Hell, what type of people person
would spend the time typing a silly e-mail about Amway!!  What usually
happens when someone doesn't achieve the success they would like is that
they rationalize that the business must be the problem, not them.
Unfortunately, that just isn't the truth.  In my case, I did not succeed to
the heights I envisioned because of me, and when I no longer was willing to
do what was required to achieve those results, that was when I chose to
become inactive.
        I guess I am trying to say that the Amway business is the Amway business
and people make it good or bad.  I have no resentment towards the Amway
Corporation nor the people in my upline because I went in with my eyes open
and gave it my best shot.  On the other hand, I am the furthest thing from
a "soap moonie" you could ever find, which enabled me to walk away from it
with no hangups.  At the risk of sounding pretentious, I know I have a
better vision of what the Amway business is based on my experience.
Unfortunately, I just stink at applying what I know!!
        Thanks for taking the time to read this and please feel free to contact me anytime.


Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 11 Jan 1998

> Dear Russell,
>         I found your story both insightful and funny, and have to compliment you
> on what you were able to "discover" in such a short period of time while
> never actually becoming an Amway distributor or using their products.  You
> appear to be a person very interested in setting the facts straight, so I'd
> thought I give you the "benefit" of my experiences and research (if you are
> interested!!).

        Okay.  To begin with, your sarcasm is in no way lost on me, and I
recognize and appreciate your implied criticism, essentially indicating
that "You can't make a judgment call when you never got yourself deeply
immersed in the system."  I can hope that the entire paragraph wasn't
meant ironically; some people do in fact find my story insightful and
funny.

> I am currently inactive, but
> still receive anywhere from $200 to $600 a month in bonus's based on the
> volume of products purchased throughout my downline.  I will probably renew
> my distributorship for years to come.

        Both impressive and rare, given the feedback I have received from other
readers.  This of course will represent an income of $2,400 to $7,200
per year if it continues... not bad pocket change, if not exactly the
income that dreams are made of.
        The common claim is that the income level you draw from the business
will continue indefinitely.  I would be interested to hear, over the
coming months, whether you find this to be the case.

> I laughed when you asked Ted why there were
> so many meetings - when you are new, it seems like there is a stupid
> meeting every day, but when you are building a group, you need to use these
> meetings to expose prospective distributors to the business.  Its one of
> those things you have to experience from the inside.

        I'm sure you did laugh, and I can ALMOST appreciate the necessity of
bringing the new kids to meetings, which means that the meetings have to
occur regularly.  What I do not appreciate is the continuous pressure to
go to meeting after meeting and listen to the same motivational hype,
and TAKE NOTES on such things.  After three meetings, I was almost able
to predict what the speaker was going to say next.  I suppose the value
of attending one or two such meetings per week for the several years
that it purportedly takes to achieve Amway success is lost on me.
        It is not a "big fallacy" that large groups make a lot of money off the
sale of tools, in fact there are several ongoing lawsuits against Amway,
initiated by big pins, accusing exactly that.  For recent details, you
should take a look at http://members.tripod.com/~nomorescams/bigsuit.htm

> In my case, I did not succeed to
> the heights I envisioned because of me, and when I no longer was willing to
> do what was required to achieve those results, that was when I chose to
> become inactive.

        But you see, over a long period of time, and having the perspective and
hindsight of thousands of letter writers, I feel very strongly that your
case is typical.  A great many people go inactive and blame themselves,
saying "I would have made it, but I just wasn't persistent enough."  It
would never occur to you that the flaw may be in the system itself; and
yet BY DESIGN only a very small percentage of the people involved can
actually make money off of their distributorships.  Because it takes
some 70 to 100 people downline to make any money, and without an
infinite number of total distributors, 70 people will necessarily lose
money for every one person that makes money.  Zero sum game, remember?
        And what worries me greatly is the very vast amount of self-defeating
guilt that distributors such as yourself experience, when they go
inactive and say "I should have gone farther... I was just so lazy!"

>         I guess I am trying to say that the Amway business is the Amway business
> and people make it good or bad.  I have no resentment towards the Amway
> Corporation nor the people in my upline because I went in with my eyes open
> and gave it my best shot.  On the other hand, I am the furthest thing from
> a "soap moonie" you could ever find, which enabled me to walk away from it
> with no hangups.

        I can agree with that.  Not everyone is lucky enough to be capable of
walking away when they're ahead... or more often, behind.

> At the risk of sounding pretentious, I know I have a
> better vision of what the Amway business is based on my experience.
> Unfortunately, I just stink at applying what I know!!

        The guilt just eats away at you, doesn't it?  I think you should let it
go.

>         Thanks for taking the time to read this and please feel free to contact me
> anytime.

        Thanks for writing.


Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...

Tue, 13 Jan 1998

Russell,
     First off, sorry I'm not formatting this like you did in your response
- I am an Internet newbie & haven't figured out how to do that.  Heck, it
took me a whole day to realize that your response was sitting in my
mailbox!!  Anyway, please know that I was not being sarcastic regarding
your article.  You have skills and intuition beyond your 20 something years
and my wife was witness to my laughter as I read the "drama".  I think I
identify with you because you appear to have Choleric/Melancholy
personality traits like I, where we know we are right and must let others
know it!!  It tends to irritate my wife, but she married me because then I
could be the annoying one!!
     A few, quick thoughts on your response:
        1)  You are right regarding the income we are receiving lessening over
time.  It will probably slowly diminish over the next 24 to 30 months
(except for the leg in Chile, that was too large and had alot of momentum).
        2)  There is a huge difference when you are attending meetings vs.using
meetings for recruitment.  I had the same feeling as you, but they were a
little more bearable when I felt I was "doing something" (ie, exposing
prospects).  To this day, I never figured out what the cookie munchers saw
in going for the sake of going.  I think they thought they were going to
have a revelation (or a violent tic).
        3)  If I had known you were talking about the Yager organization regarding
tool distribution and profiting from that, I would have agreed with you.  I
heard some nasty things about some of the other organizations.  I did do my
homework (it took some time but was fruitful) on the organization I was
affiliated with (Network 21), and they did not operate as Mr. Yager has
been accused of.  The whole concept of a "system" within a group is
difficult to explain, but trust me when I tell you there are differences,
and it mirrors the leaders in those groups.
        4)  You do have alot of perspective, but remember that most of it is
heresay.  By that, I don't mean it is wrong, it just is 3rd party.  I
learned a long time ago that experience can't replace knowledge, and
knowledge can't replace experience.  My experience over a 3.5 year period
showed that most people just don't do the work that is required, and then
either feel guilty about it, as you mentioned, or attack the concept.  Rare
are those who try.
        5)  Your numbers are correct for making a decent profit (approx 100 people
in a directs group), but don't overlook the fact that you are in control of
that outcome.  Thats why I was willing to work hard, because I knew it was
under my control.
        6)  You are wrong that I have guilt eating me at me; I am probably one of
the few inactive people around who don't.  What I probably have is
heartbreak at my ineffectiveness.  I showed a plan to a couple once who
decided to join the business, but in another group (ouch!!) and then about
15 months later saw their picture showing that they had built to Ruby
Volume (approx $30,000 worth of business in one month).  Double ouch!!  Not
being proficient at something was a foreign feeling to me, and to see
others fly by was an ego shot.  If I had felt guilt, I never would have
started my Audio/Video company back in October.
        I hope none of this is taken the wrong way - like I said earlier, we
are similiar when we feel we have a point to prove.  Take care, you do a
great job with your page.

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Sun, 11 Jan 1998

Winners never quit. Quitters never win.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Sun, 11 Jan 1998

Russel- Thanks,  I signed up for amway two or three years ago and lost
about $150.00 on the startup kit.  Then I stopped Amway.  My upline was
a teacher in the school I work at.  I guess he quit to.  Still see him
every day but we never mention amway.  I will ask him sometime soon how
he made his way out of amway.
Now at that time I was NOT involved in any meetings. Just this weekend a
new guy in my church talked me into going to one of the DreamWold
meetings with over 2000 people attending.  It was just like you
described in your homepage.  Needless to say I Got Excited again and
also scared about repeating the same misktake twice.  After reading your
homepage I'm convicned that I will never join amway again and save my
money for someone else like my daughter.  Keep you homepage up for
people who are like me: afraid to see what is true when we want to
believe so much that all people are telling us the truth.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.  YOU ARE WONDERFUL.

		

Subject: Your Amway page...

Mon, 12 Jan 1998

Dear Russell,
I just started the Amway corporation, yesterday Jan. 11th 98.  They call
it "IC" or International Connection.  Me and my wife just spent $220
bucks to start, and that was a good bundle of change for a hand full of
items.

I read your story and your approach was ingenious, I wish I could have
read this before I joined.  I'm doing a little bit more research before
I make any decisions.
You are a true american, and a true person.

I just want to thank you for your site, it helped alot.  Some rude, and
ignorant person made a comment about your site, and being a Highly
honored Designer in my field for many years, I would like to say the
content in ones image is greater than the whole.


P.S. How's the C.S. life?

		

Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)

Mon, 12 Jan 1998

Been it, seen it, read the Amagrams. This "business" sucks big-time.
Signed up in Sept 1993 through a friend of a friend. Knew others who had
tried the same, but alarm bells failed to ring.
Spent a fortune on "product" at a time when we couldnt afford it. Paid out
for the meetings, the conventions, the tapes, the books.
Showed the plan, showed the plan, showed the plan. Hit 3% due to an upline
conspiracy on a big order.
Meetings.. like some religious convention..Bris & Kerry Bovill (UK) worship
them, they have done it, gone emerald/diamond.
Got totally caught up, Amway speak, losers & winners, sat there writing down
the same crap week after week, quoting the latest tape, buzz-words.
We were reasonable people, educated, professional, we could see the
advantages, all you needed was X people under you doing Y amount of
business, so simple. So why were the fish not biting ??
Listening to tapes in the car......a sad waste of time.
Spend your time with "successful people " , ignore "stinking thinking".
Realization hit slowly so caught up were we.
The money, we were outlaying £100's per month (become a 100% user) on
product and tapes and books.
The people, sad robotic geeks, slavishly genuflecting before the upline,
hanging on their every word and repeating it.
The upline, sooooo helpful until it came to sign up a "remote" downline
distributor.
The final realization that we were being fed shit by individuals who were
leeching on us for their own income.
As lifelong agnostics the realization that we were almost part of a
religion.
We got out.....by Amway criteria we were a success having hit 3 % three
times. As most distributors make nothing due to being sad pathetic losers.

Simple message...Amway....dont even contemplate it.....unless you are a
manipulative...weak....thick skinned and scheming bastard who can accept
total mind shit and control.


ex 3% ex Amway forever

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Mon, 12 Jan 1998

Read parts 2 and 3.  This is hilarious! Thanks for a great read; you're
a talented writer. By the way, I just finished "False Profits," another
anti-MLM book that came out last year. It, too, really nailed the
psychology of MLM and how people get roped in.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Mon, 12 Jan 1998

Dear Russell,
        Thank you.  I'm sure I'm probably your 10 zillionth response,
but I wanted to say it anyway.  My best friend's in-laws are
distributors.  She is a school teacher who sells the make-up line and is
buying into the whole thing.  She says it is a way of just getting some
extra cash, but she doesn't buy the tapes or go to the meetings.  I'm
extremely skeptical, however.  It sounded good and I can't work because
of an ill child, but I need some extra cash and so I was considering
Scamway.  I have learned something very valuable over time:  when in
doubt, don't.  My mother taught me that and it holds true more often
than not, but don't tell her that.  There is a reason we have bad
feelings about situations that life puts us in and it's usually due to
instinct.  It is those that ignore their instincts that end up in the
trap.  I am glad I found your story.  Like you I jumped on the internet
because I needed some back up support.  I think I'll stick to my
penniless dream of becoming a writer of sorts.  Best of luck to you.

		

Subject: Finished your Amway story...

Mon, 12 Jan 1998

russell, i was very sad and disheartened to read your story.  i am an amway
distributor and the accounts of things that had happened to you, i have
never encountered. just a bit of info for you.  amway has many "lines" of
sponcerships. you obviously were involved in one that is misleading and was
trying to do their best and to you it felt wrong i am sorry that these
thing happened to you.  please don't think that EVERYONE in amway is like
that. i have seen some life changing events in the line if sponcership i am
in, like mothers getting to retire so that they can raise their kids so
that their not going to daycare. again i am sorry and that your faith in
human kind isn't totally gone. there are some of us

	

Well, he may be sorry that my faith in humankind isn't totally gone, but I'm sure he's willing to help me work on that.

		

Subject: just read some of your arguments

Tue, 13 Jan 1998

Russ-

I have to admit-you sound like a very intellectual person. Your explanation
of how a Ponzi letter could be considered NOT a pyramid was well thought out
and interesting. And it's clear that you (or SOMEONE) has put alot of time
and calculations into SOME of the figures and responses on your page.

	

"Someone" is me and me alone. Any math on this web page is something I have worked out for myself.


Of course, I'm sure you can figure, I AM an Amway distributor.  Some of the
things I read on your site (and some others sites) are disturbing.  Things
that people have quoted from tapes from the Britt organization  ( "pick Peg
or the business" ) and reading about how people are  FORCED? to buy tapes,
books and attend all the rallies "OR ELSE" , I find all this very
unfortunate as there seems to be several who can relate to those
experiences.

Yet, I can honestly say that in the 3 years that I have been in the Flying
Eagles Organization-NOTHING comes anywhere near any thing like that.  I have
never been told to buy anything-it was always an OPTION if I wanted.  They
were there for me if I decided to use them.  I was even given SEVERAL tapes
over numerous occasions from my Direct.  Never have we been MADE to attend
ANY rally, open, meeting, etc.  But I can say that our upline Diamond paid
half of our way to our first function and our Direct  did the same for some
of my downline later on.  I agree that alot of the tapes and seminars are
repetitive, but it works.  It motivates you.  At least, it motivates MOST
people.  And the functions are really enjoyable.  We have lots of
entertainment and comedians mixed in with motivational speakers.  And it's
fun being with thousands of HAPPY and  people that look forward to their
future instead of ----well, don't get me started on the rest of the world.
Some of the things going on in the world  can get really scary and
depressing.  Amway and the Flying Eagles have been a VERY bright light in my
life.  I admire several of the people I have met in the business and the
values they have chosen to live their lives by.  My upline Diamonds are Ed
and Charolette Courtney and I have the privalege of calling them friends.  I
actually KNOW these people and how they live their lives and it's not like
any of the horror stories that I have read about on your page or some of the
other sites.  I'm not saying that those stories didn't happen- I just know
they haven't happened to any one that I know.

Sure, I've met and know several people who don't think I should be in Amway
and/or it's not for them.  I was one of those people for a while.  I didn't
want to hear anything about Amway because I thought I knew all there was to
know about the subject.  But I remained friends with them and they with me.
(We don't drop our friends just because they're not in the business-that's a
whole different class of person that would do something like that).  By
remaining friends, I saw how they were enjoying their life and their
business.  So I asked them to show me.  I knew NOTHING that I THOUGHT I did
when it came to this business.  It was NOTHING like my initial beliefs.

I know there are several people who have had bad experiences.  But that's
what they are--"experiences"--that's what the world and life is made up of.
What would we be without good and bad experiences?  But just because some
people have had bad ones doesn't mean the company nor the system should be
blasted for it.  Nothing is perfect and neither is any person for that
matter.  There is always room for improvement in everything that we do.
And also in the way that we live.  Every company, whether it be large or
small, has thier wrongs.  But in all the criticism, alot of you forget the
RIGHTS.  Amway, the corporation, and the PEOPLE of Amway, have ALOT of
rights. Alot of good going on inside of them.  There HAS to be or there
wouldn't be over 2 million distributors, not to mention all the employees,
that are associated with Amway.

And, I know, we are NOT associates with all the other companies that do
business with Amway-we were never told to say we were( we're DISTRIBUTORS)
but remember  ---'THEY'  CAME TO AMWAY.  'THEY'  ASKED AMWAY TO DISTRIBUTE
'THEIR'  PRODUCTS.

I guess, all in all, I don't understand why "ex-distributors"  and even
people that HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN INVOLVED WITH AMWAY  find it neccessary to
dedicate so much time and money (in some cases) and energy to put the
business down and go on and on and on and on about it.  PEOPLE DON'T AGREE
ABOUT EVERYTHING---some do , some don't.  Just get over it!  So naturally,
not everyone is going to feel the same about this opportunity.   I know that
alot of you think that what you're doing is for the "good of mankind" , to
"warn" them of the "dangers" .  But,  you know what,  you can't become a
distributor unless you're 18 years old --and in this country-18 years of age
is considered an adult.   They are old enough to make decisions for
themselves.  Let them try it and  decide for themselves if the business is
for them or not..   I've heard only a FEW on the internet saying it's not---
but there are a couple of MILLION that have decided it IS for them!!!!!.

You know the old saying "ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE" -how true it is. And I'm
gonna give it my best shot to be one of the strong.

	

Oh yes, that famous old saying, I remember it well. Passed down faithfully from grandfather to grandson, for generations, throughout the de Sade family.


I've never felt strongly enough about any article to actually respond, so in
my writing this letter to you-well, that says alot.   Amway is a great
company, a great business, a great opportunity, and has a ton of great
people associated with it.  I just hope that articles like yours don't keep
others from experiencing all the different things that this business has to
offer.

Let them try it-who knows, they may like it!  (and probably will!)

	

Hmmm, did I forbid anyone from trying it?

		

Subject: My reply to your Amway page

Tue, 13 Jan 1998

Russ, you speak for me and many others!!!  My story is not Amway
related, but of another organization called Equinox International,
headed by a personality named Bill Gouldd.

I answered an ad in the marketing section of LA Times in May 1997.  This
woman Chris answered and asked what I do and such.  I was about to
graduate from a college  located in Malibu, and I told her that I was
looking for a job.  She said her company was Beverly Hills Marketing
Group.  As she acted pretty nice for my lack of experience and stories
to tell, I was very happy that I arranged an interview with a Inc 500
firm.

I showed up promptly that day.  I noticed there were many people talking
in a mid-size room, similar to a mixer.  I found Chris (a Director) out
of the crowd and I gave her my resume.  She showed much interest in my
lagging resume and I was quite confused while happy at the same time.
Then Angela came along.  She is an International Marketing Director (so
called IMD, AKA I M DONE).  She said she heard alot about me from
Chris.  Out of confusion, I said, "Reeealllly???"  She said that I came
across really well on the phone and all.  I was feeling uncomfortable
although they were trying to make me feel comfortable.

The "Briefing" soon started, and I was told to be seated at the front
with a newbie recruit.  I knew it was not good for my health at that
point.  A man named John spoke, went thru the light bulb, yellow water,
breath spray, and finally a "Testimonial" tape featuring Gouldd and
other successful people at Equinox International.  At the time it was
over, I was quiet relieved and compared it to an Amway thing that I
invited to by my high school buddy.  I knew it was not for me.  Angela
came over and asked me for a second interview.  I made an appointment
with her knowing that I wont show up.  Afterwards I went to my 3:00
class at school.

On the day of the appointment, I nicely called her up and tell her that
I was more interested to work for a company with a salaried compensation
and not interested in "sales".  She told me that there are other
opportunities available.  I assumed that she meant maybe an accounting
job or advertising or whatever.  I showed up for the second interview
one-on-one with her.

She told me about how people in the industry makes an above average
income, and how she made 50K the first year, 120K the second year, and
150K the third year (She was at the beginning of her fourth year).  And
she said, "I am going to make you make 3000 dollars on your first
month."  Man, that hit me.  I WAS SOLD by this living example in front
of me.  She sounded so sure that I will make that much as a newbie.  I
had no plans of inviting my friends so I imagine that Angela will help
me out by sticking one of her new downline into mine.   I was naive and
I was IN.

To put the story short, I signed up shortly after.  Bought 5000 dollars
of inventory to become a Manager, in anticipating that I will make money
if Angela hook me up with people/I bring in people (I was hyped enough
to think that I would bring in some of my close friends after all).  I
sat with her and two other newbies at the same table to "learn how the
pros do business"--which is nothing more than saying a script over the
phone to make people show up.

Went to a 300 dollar seminar called, "Basic Building Blocks to Success"
for two days and learn "the most advanced marketing tools not taught in
the top business schools" from Kale Flagg, an ex-investment banker from
Yale he said (BTW, from research, bankers makes typically 40000 first
year as an analyst, 60000 second year, head off to top MBA schools after
the second year, and make 6 figures when rejoined as an associate, half
a million as vice president.  Junior partners make million plus. Senior
partners make many millions.  Alan Greensberg, CEO of Bear Stearns made
50 Million as bonus in 1997.  If I was hired as an Analyst, there is no
way I will join a MLM in a million years ).  An Australian man was also
a speaker that day.  I danced, laughed, and even teared during a
broadcast when I felt so proud being in this company.  (Similar to the
Japanese people in WWII after knowing that they are serving the "Son of
the Heaven")   A company driven by Bill Gouldd's vision and give a
vehicle for the normal people to succeed.

Not to mention Bill Gouldd showed up to our office one night, welcomed
by red carpet literally after he landed in his private jet and limo.  I
brought few of my best friend to this big event to impress them.  They
werent and I did not push them, know that if I did it would ruin our
friendship.

I was half baptized by the idea, and ignored what my parents and true
friends told me.  However, I still had a sense of individuality and
reality left, unlike some others who talked about Equinox left and
right.  Equinox sold dreams to people for 5000 dollars apiece, and only
a few turned the dream into reality.

I did not make any money spending my time in the office listening the
phone calls and meetings.  So one day I did not show up and nobody even
bothered to call me and see what happened to me.  Unlike an employer in
a regular corporation, I PAID MY BOSS.  Unlogical as it sound, its
ridiculous.  Nobody sold anything, and I am stuck with a bunch of pills
and water filters.  (I had a full-out house cleaning today, and the
products still fill up two shelves...it used to fill up three)  I dont
know who makes money other than Angela and the other few Executive
Directors as few people talked about EXACTLY how much they were making.
They were saying that Equinox was the only way an average person can
achieve success.  EVER HEARD OF WALL STREET?  Stocks not only made
Silicon Valley giants rich, it made many other investor rich too (I know
of an army officer who started with 18000 in Dec 1995 turned the
investment into 950000 in Dec 1997, that is about 50somefold in two
years thru great risk taking and lots of research into tiny turnaround
companies).  MLMs limits your vision and span of thinking and makes you
think like a cult member.

I met more stupid people with limited ideas in Equinox than everywhere
else.  A speaker used Bill Gates as an example in a "Briefing".  He said
that selling products make sense.  He said that Bill Gates got rich
because he receive a percentage of the profit when a piece of software
is sold.  WRONG!!!  Bill Gates' salary and bonus is much lower than
other Silicon giants and Microsoft never declared a dividend (earnings)
to shareholders since its IPO in 1985.  Gates' wealth came from his
large ownership of Microsoft stocks, which appreciated many times in
value because of Microsoft's rapid expansion in revenue and earnings.
The speakers used only Mr. Gates because they probably dont know there
are many other rich billionaires other than Gates and the possibility of
Bill Gouldd in the clan.  Ever heard of Larry Ellison of Oracle, Warren
Buffett of Berkshire Hathaway, George Soros of Quantum Fund, Andrew
Carnergie of US Steel, JD Rockefella of Standard Oil, Donald Trump of
Trump Enterprise, JP Morgan of JP Morgan, Phillip Knight of Nike, Edward
Johnson of Fidelity Investment, Michael Bloomberg of Bloomberg L.P.,
Goore Moore of Intel, Michael Dell of Dell Computer, just a few of the
American Greats.  All the rich people that I can name own ASSETS and
thats what made them rich, not by making friends to join their
downline.  They arent lucky and born with a silver spoon.  Warren
Buffett, second richest man in the world, started buying stocks since an
early age using money he made by delivering newspapers and fixing up
pinball machines, and using the law of compounding to achieve his great
wealth..

My upline Angela had NO BUSINESS sense, and no knowledge of anything for
the matter (she's quite an airhead).  The main topic of conversations in
the office are Equinox, products, warm market, and $UCCE$$ of course.
Nobody talked about the Dodgers game, the stock market (like anyone had
money to invest anyways after all the "business expenses"), other
business greats other than Bill Gouldd, movies, gossips, and even what
each other did in the weekends.

MLMers may say that I will never taste the feeling of being rich because
I dont have what it takes.  Or if I follow what others do I will become
them.  They might say my mentor at home is a bad influence on success.
They might be true that I dont have what it takes because life is not
favorable to everybody.  But they are dead wrong about the rest.  My
father is a very well known electronics manufacturer in Hong Kong, and
he turned a 24-people assembly line to a 7000-people strong company in
15 years.  And he never show off his wealth in luxary items such as gold
watches, diamond rings, limos, private jets, Ferraris, and worst of all,
talking about his wealth.  Another example is Andrew Grove of Intel, who
was named "Man of the Year."  He wears worn crappy shoes, cheap-looking
watches and only his wedding ring.  And Sam Walton who drives a beatup
pickup truck to work.  And George Soros who does not enjoy the luxary of
cool cars and such.  Bill Gouldd and the like will never be named "Man
of the Year" because they dont create ANYTHING.  However, they look like
they rule the world (at least the MLMers believed that they do).

There are no limitations on what paths people take to their goal, but
MLMers restricted people to only MLM.

After this experience, I am glad that most of my friendships are still
intacted, that I have fended off many other MLMers who gave me their
speech(I give them only ONE chance to prove that their MLM works, and
none differed from Equinox International), that I did not spend the
money to go to more seminars and the annual "Kickoff," that my parents
didnt mention it in family reunions (I at least hope not), that I dont
have to buy any more chocolate bars and shampoo for another two years,
and that I dont tell people about my business after I say, "Hello, what
is your name?"

For those of your who thought that I was BSing (obviously you people are
advocates of MLMs), that was just my humble opinion.  Maybe you should
step back and take a closer look at your friends, your conversation
topics, your business spendings VS. income, your definition of success,
and most of all, YOU.

Best regards

PS. I am currently furthering my study at a well-known UC school in LA
on the topic of Systems Analysis (networking, but computer networking,
not network marketing).  I also have an interest in finance (not like
you couldnt tell) with experiences in financial analysis of companies.
If any of you would like to know my credential or give advice to a young
man like myself, email me

	

I didn't write back to you personally, but I do want to say THANK YOU very much for your detailed and insightful story. I have wondered quite a bit about Equinox and Gouldd. I'm sure many readers will appreciate this.

Best of luck to you... I'm pretty young myself, and into software rather than systems anything, so I can't tell much, but I hope you do well.

		

Subject: Do you have a brain Russell?

Tue, 13 Jan 1998

No, but I'm going to see the wizard soon and I'm sure he'll give me one. Would you like me to pick up a heart for you while I'm out?

		

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