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Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 14 Jan 1998 hilarious
Subject: lol Thu, 15 Jan 1998 Sorry...HAD to laugh when I went to your home page and saw Home Phone: ET. No...not just the obvious line in there....one of my net names is also .....ET You sound like quite a character.....obviously have a good head on the shoulders and a quick wit. Love it. Cynic? No.......... None of us are. You sound so much like a friend of mine over here in Australia...name 'Dangerous'...(well named)....who is an electronics engineer...and ALSO loves to tear down a mountain at full tilt and drive INCREDIBLY fast cars and anything basically that will give him that rush and let him know he's alive.....he's a buzz, but also a very sincere and wonderful person... just crazy that's all, and I love him for it. by the way....no he's NOT an Amway distributor...and NO I'm not trying to prospect you (or him). Just thought you sounded like a hoot and thought I'd drop you a line. Cheers...gotta go Thursday, 15 January 1998 Subject: Your Amway story I am attatching an oldie but goodie from Dangerous......you've probably seen most or all but I think you'll agree with the sentiments.... -------- I found it really interesting that you said "I was developing this Lone Ranger complex, struck with the idea that I'd like to make a difference in some people's lives. How could I do that? What would you do if you were in my shoes?" I AM an Amway distributor and my handle is Tonto.....I see myself more as Tonto than the Lone Ranger. I am not the one charging out on a raging steed....saving the world from itself and getting myself all sorts of notoriety. I am the quiet one who pops up at the time when I'm needed and doesn't necessarily need the lime light...doesn't want it in fact. No I am not an Amaroid.......I am an average person....but with a certain amount of business acumen.......BUT I still have many friends who are NOT Amway distributors, who probably never will be, and that fact doesn't worry them or me, and doesn't stand in the way of our being friends or associating with one another. Perhaps I belong to a group of more intelligent and discerning people...I don't know, but whatever the case....you will find people who understand what they're doing and people who just do, wherever you go and whatever you do. I do not HIDE the fact that I am an Amway distributor...I do not become OBSESSED with the fact either. I see it as it is. I understand the business structure..and you would too if you had crunched the numbers a little more. It is based on a 25% bonus structure up until you hit emerald. In one respect you are right....THAT is the mark up to cover marketing costs etc. Standard business practice.....and at a MUCH lower rate than most mark ups. It IS a business and needs to be run like one......I don't see other business owners out there giving away their products for free.....inviting their friends to shop there AT COST. There has to be a mark up to cover operating costs BEFORE there is even any profit. Like I said.. STANDARD BUSINESS PRACTICE. What makes me almost cry is watching people who do not understand business sinking tens of thousands of dollars into a small business that looks good initially...but then goes broke and loses their home and Lord knows what else in the process. It's one heck of a risk. When you say...MILEAGE COSTS and other such things...they are OPERATING COSTS. You cannot run a business without them. What I am saying is that these costs (and the risks) are minimal compared to conventional business. An ordinary person can have a crack at it without having to outlay huge sums of money and at huge risk. Not everyone will be good at what they do....not everyone will succeed. But neither do thousands of small businesses which go broke every year. There are no guarantees in anything... but the results ARE proportional to the WORK and EFFORT you put into it. The risk however is not so great that it may ruin you. Can you say that about other businesses? I'm sorry you had a bad experience...I too lost a little faith in my upline and questioned his motives (yes, I'm another suspicious person) but I love this company and the ETHICS thereof. All you have to do is ask the questions and they will give you the answers. They have NEVER been evasive of coercive...they give me the information I need...I then go and put it to work. BUT...how many people NEVER ASK the questions? How many people would even feel the need to know the nitty gritties like us? How many people would be intimidated by the kind of number crunching that people like you and I do? Please don't make the mistake that I did for years and presume that the whole world is like me...they're not, but each one has his own story to contribute. Not necessarily the same...but valuable none the less. See ya round Lone Ranger...good luck on your journey and thank you for your thoughts. tonto
Subject: Great job on the amway site! please read my short comment Wed, 14 Jan 1998 Your site is really awesome! I am really disturbed by the Amway way of threatening poor ol' Sidney! He did a lot of folks a huge favor by posting his info to all of us poor "losers". What I find extremely interesting is the fact that the Amway pitch is geared towards people who unfortunately have given up hope in life to begin with and by spending the $4500 a year that is required by the Yager organization, to be considered a "serious" businessman, is essentially robbing them of any opportunity to get ahead. I feel really bad for these people. If they just woke up to the fact that they, all those people lured by the Amway mis-opportunity, that all people have the opportunity to be great, then they would realize that if they are really serious about devoting time to building a business, then they would just have to go down to any bookstore or newstand with twenty bucks and pick up a half dozen magazines with hundereds of business opportunities that would cost them anywhere between five hundered and four thousand to start. If you want independence, then you do not want to be a slave to the Amway organization. by becoming an Amway disributor, you are only building someone elses business and if you decide one day to walk away from your Amway business, you will be branded a "loser". If you start your own business, then you will be in the postition to sell the business to someone who wants a solid ethical and viable business that is actually worth something. Futhermore if you want motivation, then go to the same bookstore and bring five twenty dollar bills and ask the clerk for motivational tapes and they will turn you on to the most brilliant motivational speakers out in the motivational circuit. You can listen to those tapes with great enthusiasm and not have to listen to the overpriced garbage that Amway distributors are pumping out as their "real" income that is on a cash basis which I doubt any Amway "ethical" person declares as income on their 1040 tax forms as they, the "crooked" distributors never claim on their taxes. I am sure if you filed a tax fraud form with the IRS for every Amway disributor out there who claims they are making the big bucks and have a new shiny car to "prove" it then you have a bunch of "losers" in suits that are going to be a real loser when the IRS finds out that they haven't paid any taxes on their income. I have seen many a person get sucked into this ultimate scam who have lost everything as a result of giving their money to these crooks. Sorry off on a tangent. If people would turn off the television, open their eyes, get involved with their communities and start helping others a bit more and taking care of themselves both health wise and intellectually, then this nation would again be great. One has only to take a few college classes to realize one's potential for greatness. If you really want to be in MLM, then go out there and get into something like EXCEL, the newest and hottest and most ethical MLM out there. I personally know a guy who was in Amway for seven long years and barely made a profit on paper after all of his expenses where written off who showed the Amway plan three to four times a week , who joined EXCEL and after a year and a half had an income of $300.000,- a year becasue he could offer people a service that is priced competitively and something not available at every grocery and department store in America. Enough out of me! Thanks for a great site. Take care and may the Gods be with you....
Excel. Oh boy. I should have seen THAT ONE coming a mile away.
Subject: Your Amway story Thu, 15 Jan 1998 I would like to know which is the difference in terms of satisfaction, drems, troubles, between you an the million people who choosen Amway. Are you involved in a system that tells you what to do (fashion, limited number of choices in everithing you need, religion, politics, etc.) ? That was your negative experience bat you are so far from absolute truth. Your story is patetic even if I agree some ideas or principle. My opinion is : "Live and let them live". I apply this principle to you.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 08 Jan 1998 Hi, yes I read your whole story and found it quite fascinating. There are only a few points I would like to ask you. First off, I will be totally honest with you. I am an Amway distributor. I have no intention of trying to change your mind about the business. I must tell you how I feel though and some of my story. I hope you'll be as open minded to read this as I was to read your story. I FEEL (yes, I can feel), very sad that you believe this is a cult and nothing but bad can happen to people who decide to become distributors. First off, I am a Christian and believe in God wholeheartedly. My husband and I believe that the only way to live our lives is by this policy: God, family and business, in that order. Yes, we wish to be successful in this business, not so that we can make money off of other people because our downline does not pay us, the corporation pays us. I would like to give you a little bit of personal background on me. Before I saw this opportunity I was suffering from a condition called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder caused by a UN peacekeeping mission in Haiti. The sights I saw while in that country literally blew my mind. I could not believe that people could live like that. In the city of Port Au Prince alone there were 300,000 orphans. I can't explain the feeling I had when one day while in the city a small child of about 4 or 5 years old tugged on my uniform pant leg and with tears in her eyes said "Missy, I hungry, please some food." My heart ripped out of my chest. You could tell the child was starving, her ribs showed through her tattered shirt and her face was so boney. Do you know that I could not give that child one crumb of food or water even though my pockets were full? We were under strict United Nations orders not to give anything, not one thing to any of the native people of that country, no matter what it was! Can you or anyone else look away from a starving child when you have food and say get away, I don't have anything for you? I did, I had no choice, I was under military orders and to disobey those orders would be very bad. Orders that you have to follow no questions asked. (What is the cult now?) This happened many times during my tour of duty. These people make per year the equivalent of $250.00 Cdn. I was making $1000.00 extra per month just to be there. That's worth 4 years of their pay in one month. Of course that didn't include my regular pay which I was still receiving. When I finally finished my tour and came home, my mind broke, I could not do anything by myself, I isolated from people, I could not work, I suffered from nightmares, insomnia, body shakes, paranoia, panic attacks, the whole works. They had me on so many drugs that I couldn't keep track of them all. For about a year after I returned from Haiti, I suffered from visions of starving children surrounding me, begging for food, water and a home. I thought I would be driven totally insane by this and thought quite deeply of committing suicide to end the torture. I couldn't think of any way I could help any of those children, due to the fact that I was deeply in debt and could not afford to give anything to charity, (I was a charity myself at that time). When I saw this business, I didn't see a way to get rich so I could have all the things in the world (that isn't important because those things won't matter when God's kingdom comes), I saw a way that I could help those starving children that were tormenting me in my dreams every night. Broke people cannot help broke people, as I can attest to. I saw a way to get rich enough to be able to provide homes, food, clothes, clean water and education to these children. I saw a way to build my life long dream of a safe haven for abused and neglected animals. On my income from my job there would be no way on this earth that dream of mine could ever become a reality. Through this business I can achieve that now. It is said that the root of all evil is money. I agree to a point. The root of all evil is the LOVE of money. Money has its uses, and my husband and I believe that money should be used and people should be loved, not the other way around. We do have close personal relationships with family and friends who are not distributors and do not buy our products. We don't hold that against them. They have a different direction in life from us and that is okay. We love them for who they are, not what they do. That is what the Bible teaches therefore that is the way we live. When I was a child I was a victim of incest. My parents divorced when I was four and my sister and I suffered from mental, physical and sexual abuse by both sexes. Due to this I suffered from a very low self-esteem, believing I was no good for anything and that I could not do anything right. The only way to make people love me was to do things for them, be it giving them stuff or sex or whatever. When I was introduced to this business I met people who told me that I was worth something. That I was a good person. The love and acceptance I received from these people I never received from society in general. When they heard about my life they didn't condemn me or tell me it was my fault, they told me that in order to get away from the past and to live a future that didn't revolve around the past that I should look to God and the Bible. They did not tell me to get rich and all the bad things would disappear, that does not happen. I now am off all my medication, thank goodness. I haven't taken sedatives or sleeping pills since June last year. Knowing that one day I'll be able to help those children in my dreams has made the nightmares disappear. I no longer suffer from panic attacks and insomnia. With reference to the vitamins you talked about. The vitamins we provide through our business you can buy on any drug store shelf in the vitamin department. I have extensively researched the effects of different herbs and vitamins because I hated being on chemically produced drugs. The vitamins do not make you high, only illegal or prescription drugs can do that. The drugs I was taking from the doctors made me high. The vitamins I take now help to keep a healthy body. The vitamins that lady was talking about were Ginseng with Ginkgo and the Passionflower. Ginseng is recommended for use for up to six weeks at a time during very stressful periods, ie, studying for exams, a particularly stressful period at work when you have to do alot of overtime etc. The Ginkgo does aid in increasing oxygen to the brain by helping increase the flow of blood to the brain, thus, helping to increase short term memory and decrease in senility. As a matter of fact, people in Europe over the age of 50 take Ginkgo daily to help reduce senility and the onset of Alzheimer's disease. The Passionflower is used as a mild anti-spasmodic which helps when you are under alot of stress and cannot sleep. It has also been proven to increase the attention span of children suffering from Attention Deficit Disorder. (Hyper-activity) The vitamins we offer are not illegal drugs and have been researched for their effectiveness in natural ways to stay healthy. I am not trying to promote our products to you but only to explain about the different vitamins this lady at that meeting was talking about. One last thing, I don't understand your thoughts on the educational system we have for building the business. What difference is there between spending a few dollars each week to assist in building a business or spending $40,000 to $60,000 for 4 years of university to achieve a degree in whatever it is you learn about? Or how about investing $800,000 to buy the rights to a McDonald's franchise? By the way, that's just the start for that, in order to buy a McDonald's franchise you must have $1,000,000.00 in the bank besides the $800,000.00. Then you have to go to Hamburger University (yes, it is real), they have their own training system that you must pass successfully otherwise you will not be able to own a McDonald's franchise. (By the way, that is paid out of your own pocket also). Who is getting rich off that? So, like I said, I really don't understand your point of view on that one. Anyway, I won't keep you any longer. There are a few other points I would have liked to have brought up but I do have laundry to do before my husband comes home from work. I really appreciate your time and would like to debate with you some more if you are willing. I hope in my heart of hearts that I did not offend you and would look forward to hearing back from you reference some of my comments, (only if you are willing of course). Take care and have a great day!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 15 Jan 1998 Hi- Impressed by your page. I have no axe to grind, just stumbled upon it. Best of luck to you.
Subject: Down With Amway Fri, 16 Jan 98 Jason, I haven't had any correspondence with you to date, but I have with Sidney, a and I've sent him a few documents from my recent AMWAY experience. I am still trying to recover some of my Tools money (after sending a certified letter on 28 Oct 97. Hopefully, this will be resolved next week. I also returned $600.00 worth of product containers under the satisfaction guarantee. However, AMWAY sent the vouchers to the warehouse ordering distributors on 18 Dec 97. I called AMWAY yesterday (14 Jan 98) to ask why it was taking so long to send my refund vouchers, and was told when and to whom they had been sent. Of course, the honest and ethical distributors here in West Virginia had not bothered to inform me that the refund vouchers were in, and I had expected them to come to me. Anyway, After I talked to them (politely of course), I think they finally found out that I'm not quite as dumb as I sound. Still, it will be another week and a half before I get the money (assuming their word is worth anything). They act as though they are doing me some favor after basically STEALING my refund (Yes, if I take your car for a month without your permision, even though I return it, I have stolen from you). Since it was MY money, Their lack of effort to contact me (sorry, I still have AMVOX, so "I couldn't get hold of you" won't cut it. In my conversation with AMWAY, I was told I could resign my distributorship, and get a refund on my kit. How is that? My distributorship is over one year old. If this is true it could be good information to put out on the net. Now, for the main reason I'm writing. I fully intend to distribute the negative information I have concerning AMWAY in regular (Monthly) mailings to people I know in West Virginia that are distributors. I have Sidneys site, which I am currently preparing for paper distribution in several phases, and am looking for other complete sites. (Yes, Kino's is my friend!!) I just hope to help a few distributors "SEE THE LIGHT". What I would like, is a complete copy of your site, along with your permision to reproduce it (Paper only), and mail the information such as your story, etc to others... As I'm sure you've figured out by now, I'm determined to do what I can to reduce and/or limit the spread of this DISEASE in my area. Feel free to publish this message on your site, but please leave off my personal information, and the E-mail address.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Fri, 16 Jan 1998 My Dear Friend, Thank you for coming out on the net with facts about amway. Well it was not my chance visit to your page ! Recently an Amway baiter(!) called Bob Markley of Britt-Worldwide sent me E-mail. By the way i am in India, the great new market place with our 900 million population. And Amway peaople are out to tap this side of the globe as well. Now this Bob guy hasn't given me an inkling abouth his "great business oportunity"! instead he referred me to his home page for further info ! I was just trying to reach his page and by sheer luck I reached your site I am saved, and so sre many Fellow Indians. I would also like to advise Amway people not to waste their time in India. Indians are a smart people. Thank you.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 16 Jan 1998 I enjoyed your page! I found it so it certainly was not a failure!! We have a neighbor who is deeply involved in Amway - he tried to involve us but he couldn't (or wouldn't) tell us how it works. Just that he'll be retired in 2 years(he's been in it for a year) and waving to us from the golf course as we drive to our lame jobs every day. Thanks for your efforts to save a few!
Subject: Your Amway Page
Sat, 17 Jan 1998
Mr. Glasser,
If you are telling the truth you get many many letters regarding this page
so this may be just another in the pile. I had to respond though. You
seem to have gone to very elaborate means to put down Amway. I was going
to read your site with an open mind. However, I got to only the second
paragraph of the first page I was going to read before your information
about what Amway is proved to be totally false. In addition, the
"bonus/rebate" idea is not unique to Amway. Hundreds, maybe thousands of
companies are using this very idea.
It is good to be a skeptic. It keeps the rest of us on our toes. But how
many people have you misled by being either ill-informed or dishonest. It
seems to me that you are the very thing that you accuse Amway of being.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 17 Jan 1998 We were Amway distributors for six long years. We were also sucked in big time by their cult. Amway almost ended our marriage and we lost a lot of friendships because of it. Not only were we audited by the IRS but our total $ investment over a six period was well over $50,000. We probably made $2,000 in that 6 year period. The whole thing is nothing but a big mind game. Only a few suceed. How, I don't know. If you're thinking about doing it... DON'T.
Subject: I almost got scammed too Sat, 17 Jan 1998 Thanks for the info I almost got scammed and now I know all about AMWAY shit I fucked that up!!!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 18 Jan 1998 Russell, I just read your story, yes, all the way through and I just have one thing to tell you; I grew up in the country but too isolated from a large urban center. On occassion we got travelling salesmen at our door. Vacuums to roof painting, you name it. The one person I remember the most came several years ago and when my father aswered the door, the salesman wouldn't tell him what he was selling. After about a minute of the salesman's attempts to sell something, my father asked him what it was he was selling. A pause and then more of the same *nothing* talk. My father told him off, (more or less, he's not particularly loud in that respect) "If you're not proud enough with what you are selling, to tell me what it is, then I do NOT want it!" He closed the door in the man's face. You see, my father was a travelling cattle-feed salesman for several years and understands the world of sales. That was no way to run a business. I have no idea if that man was an Amway salesman or not but it sure seems that if Amway isn't proud enough of themselves to come right out and say who they are, then there is a problem right away! Thanks for your time
Subject: Global Prosperity Group Sun, 18 Jan 1998 I was browsing around and found your interesting info regarding Amway.. I was in it for 5 years and spent alot of money and irritated alot of friends and family......I heard about something called Global Prosperity Group, and was wondering if you have any info on them.......Thanks,
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sun, 18 Jan 1998
Russell,
I have just finished reading the info on your Web site and others like
yours. It has helped me decide not to join Amway after recieving two
sales pitches from someone I met at a clients office. It seems all the
negative info I found on Amway Web sites like yours are very consistant
in what I have experienced. It is amazing how these Amway "people"
actually believe in this concept.
I just need to know how to "shake" these people off my back after I tell
them I am not interested because I know that they will try to change my
mind. Any ideas?
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
Yeah, show him the internet pages you read. Then warn him that if you
are invited to a meeting, you will print off several copies and hand
them out to everyone you meet. They'll drop you in a SECOND. Trust me,
it worked for me (though not on purpose).
Sun, 18 Jan 1998 I am curious as to who you might work for that does not function on some sort of profit structure. It sounds as if there was no AMWAY magic in your business or is it that you became an authority without ever becomming a distributor. Everything in life returns to you what you put into it- Amway is no exception.
Subject: Amway page
Mon, 19 Jan 1998
Hi Russell
Just finished reading your web site and I honestly found it interesting.
I'm an Amway distribution in Australia and all I can say is that things
with the "Yager" system must be different in the US than in Australia.
Here if one engages in the "Yager" system (called IDA) the total costs
for a couple 100% engaged in the system equals $2,360.00 AUD (rounded
off give or take a bit to the nearest $10.00) per annum. This is not on
top of the cost of goods and services. I cannot understand people
going bankrupt because of the "Amway business".
Please note that the above figure does not include other costs such as
time, petrol, wear and tear on vehicle etc. It just represents the
actual cost of the system. If you include the total cost, well then
costs could be $10,000 or more depending on how you wish to "word"
things with your accountant. Well that's how it works here anyway. My
accountant is very zealous in gaining all legal business deductions
(even though he dislikes Amway and tells me whenever I'm in his office
that "no one I've seen makes any money in that!").
Any explanations would be nice.
Incidentally I saw the "plan" 4 times in total over 2 years and
initially thought Amway was "of the Devil". After the last plan I still
wasn't convinced that it would work, but I decided (without any pressure
from my eventual sponsers or upline I might add) that I would give it a
year and see were I would end up. If I broke even. Good. If not, it
wasn't for me. So far it's been all right.
I did find it unfortunate that you felt the way that you did and I trust
that your web site has helped to exorcise those "inner demons".
PS: This is the first time I have responded to an anti-Amway site. I
found that your situation was interesting in that you didn't actually
join but you still felt the way that you did.
PPS: Have you noticed that a lot of people have problems with the
use/cost of the "system" but not with Amway themselves?
Subject: Re: Amway page
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
> PPS: Have you noticed that a lot of people have problems with the
> use/cost of the "system" but not with Amway themselves?
There's a very good reason for that. It's because Amway business plan
itself is ineffectual, unremarkable, and uninteresting. The products,
as I noted on my web page, are of average quality and the products that
they distribute from other companies tend to be overpriced; and the
argument that Amway is a "direct selling" business with no middlemen
breaks down when you realize the very big chain of distributors that
are, in effect, selling you things and trying to make a profit all the
way up and down the line.
With all this going on, it's no wonder that distributors themselves put
all their efforts into the system, and not into distributing products,
which is what legitimate businesses do. Let's face it, nobody in Amway
expects to get rich by just by filling their garage with LOC and their
pockets with Sweet Shot. They want more and more recruits and more and
more validation from their upline, and it's gotten to the point where
the system IS the business.
Didn't you ever wonder why your accountant, who should be the guy in
your life who knows money best, adamantly tells you that no one makes
money off of Amway? Wouldn't you suspect that he's seen quite a lot of
test cases to back this claim up?
Let me know if you break even, I'll be interested... just make sure not
to fudge the money you spend on "system" motivation and see how it works
out in the end.
Subject: RE: Amway page
Thu, 22 Jan 1998
Hiya Russell
Thanks for your response.
Tell me, do you ever get bored of these sorts of messages. You know the
"I'm in Amway and I think it's all right??"
Just to let you know, personally I find it unfortunate that you had the
experience that you did. But I am not intending via these messages to
"convert you to the light" as some would say. I am the first person to
state "well, this 'thing' is not for everybody". However I also add
"but this 'thing' may be an alternative at some time in the future so
don't give it a bagging until you are 110% positive you are NEVER going
to do it".
I make this last comment only because of my personal experience. I am
an Electrical Engineer specialising in design and control of Industrial
Systems (basically programming Programmable Logic Controllers), and I'm
a skeptic and a cynic. Initially I though Amway was for losers and when
I was first approached (by a good friend who is a Gold Direct) I turned
him down.
And then I did the dumbest thing in my life.
I rang ALL my close friends and did the "approach", laughed, and said
"you've been sucked in to Amway".
So do you think I have any credability with those people now that I've
decided to give Amway a go? Nope! Oh well.
> > PPS: Have you noticed that a lot of people have problems with the
> > use/cost of the "system" but not with Amway themselves?
>
> There's a very good reason for that. It's because Amway
> business plan
> itself is ineffectual, unremarkable, and uninteresting. The products,
> as I noted on my web page, are of average quality and the products
> that
> they distribute from other companies tend to be overpriced;
>
Here in Australia they are genuinely competivitive. Fortunately here in
Australia we have something known as the Office of Consumer Affairs
which monitors pricing etc. It regularily releases pricing comparisions
and Amway fares very well. Note that this is with regards to the
"Amway" (you know soap etc.). I haven't seen any comparisions on their
other products other than their museli (which I like) is cheaper than
the "Home" (cheap shopping centre brand) brand. Also their business
shirts are competitive with the likes of K-mart and Target here in Aust.
Also Amway makes regular claims that it's prices are cheaper etc. and
here in Aust. it is illegal to make false advertising. The government
gleefully prosecutes any false claims and encourages the population to
report instances of false advertising to the authorities.
> and the
> argument that Amway is a "direct selling" business with no middlemen
> breaks down when you realize the very big chain of distributors that
> are, in effect, selling you things and trying to make a profit all the
> way up and down the line.
>
Hmmmm. My sponser is "Warehouse Authorised" which is a term meaning
that you buy your stuff direct from Amway of Australia (based in Sydney
in case you are wondering). It's delivered to their home and we pick it
up once a week. They have just moved from near us, to the other side of
Brisbane, so I will be "Warehouse Authorised" in the near future. My
point being, I buy the stuff at "Distributor Discount" from my sponser
who buys it from Amway at the same price. So there is no profit made in
the product sale to Distributors.
> With all this going on, it's no wonder that distributors
> themselves put
> all their efforts into the system, and not into distributing products,
> which is what legitimate businesses do. Let's face it, nobody in
> Amway
> expects to get rich by just by filling their garage with LOC and their
> pockets with Sweet Shot.
>
Agreed
> They want more and more recruits and more and
> more validation from their upline, and it's gotten to the point where
> the system IS the business.
> Didn't you ever wonder why your accountant, who should be the
> guy in
> your life who knows money best, adamantly tells you that no one makes
> money off of Amway?
>
No, the reason why I made that comment is to show that here in
Australia, doing the Amway "thing" (including ALL of the "system") is
legitiment business deductions. Even my Accountant had to agree with
that. Mind you he has stopped his comments now that we are making some
money over and above our expenses).
BTW my accountant relates his experiences to another MLM known as
Jewelway here in Aust. He had another accountant friend who was forced
by Jewelway to conduct meetings at his own expense. Fortunately this is
where Amway and all the other "***-ways" differ. Amway and it's system
are separate. ***-way and their system are one and the same (well run
by the same group). So my accountant's friend lost money big time
because of pressure from his MLM corporation.
> Wouldn't you suspect that he's seen quite a lot of
> test cases to back this claim up?
>
No because he hasn't. I asked. Remember that I don't have a problem
with people telling me anything, only if they can substanciate their
opinion with facts. Otherwise it's just their opinion which I will
value and reflect and make my decision.
> Let me know if you break even, I'll be interested... just make
> sure not
> to fudge the money you spend on "system" motivation and see how it
> works
> out in the end.
>
Thank you.
We have shown a profit on our balance sheet for about a year now
(without any fudging). We were audited by the Australia Tax Office
(equivalent to the IRS) last year and came through with a clean bill of
health .
PS: Forgive the above if I'm boring you to tears, but I am interesting
in seeing the "other" side.
Thanks once again
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 19 Jan 1998 Flame you? Never. I was once an Amway disturber...oops distributer like you. Same experience and I agree with you totally on this. Do you know anything about World Wide Dream Builders (Wreckers), mainly Greg Duncan? Like where he really get's his money?
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Mon, 19 Jan 1998 My Name is ***** I have also worked in the computer industry (since 1977) and an Amway distributor. I appreciate your candor, and I also admire you for researching the company and the participants. Your decision was done after some intense research, and that's a good pattern for many to follow. I do disagree with some of your views of the company, meetings, functions, etc., but I'm sure we would both disagree on some issues in the computer industry. I first became a distributor in 1979 because I believed it could work. I was sponsored by a couple of a friend. I sponsored 2 and one of those sponsored 1. However, my sponsor and his sponsor got divorced for other reasons, and I didn't renew. Through the years, I had been watching Amway grow. I was prospected 3 times, but the person did not follow up. In 1995, I was prospected by my best friend, who was also a computer consultant. My wife was skeptical about the business, and she conducted her own independent research. We were prospected 2 more times by others until we joined the business in 1996. This time, I've made the comittment to finish. I have an outstanding upline, and I have attended all seminars and functions. The tapes seminars and functions are enjoyable and informative. By the way, I will continue to work in the industry (I might do year 2k work) in Windows NT Networking. And our experience has been that; an experience. If we never sponsor another person, or become rich, that's ok. The greatest joy is to talk to people in their homes about their futures. Some of us are living in denial that everything will be ok. I always tell people that this business is an option. It's a vehicle. If you have a better way, GOOD. But I challenge you to take one step forward to reach your dream, whatever it is. Good luck with your C++ programming, and I'll see you in cyberspace. Feel free to respond
Subject: Network21
Mon, 19 Jan 1998
Hi, I read your Amway page with great interest. I have a question regarding
something called Network21, which my sister has recently gotten involved in.
Do you know if it is affiliated in any way with Amway? The things my siste
tells me sound eerily like your experience.
Subject: Re: Network21
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
Yeah, Network 21 is Amway in a big way. To be precise, it's an AMO,
short for Amway Motivational Organization, one of the groups set up to
deal with hierarchies, meetings, and motivational materials that the
business uses.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 19 Jan 1998 Dear Russell, I know what you mean. I wish you had this web page up and running in April of 96. The fateful month that I foolishly signed over my income tax refund check and got the kit and signed up for their national conference in Greensboro, NC. I know you didn't attend one like that, it's basically the same type of meeting that you went to. It's just on a grander scale. The difference is that Bill Britt, one of the Top 3 money moochers was there. He acts like some self-proclaimed Televanglist. All he did was preach about being born again and living your life right and giving your faith to the Lord. All well and good, but I thought I shelled out $400 and change to learn about a business opportunity. Not to be preached to and brow-beaten into changing religions and if I didn't I was going to hell. On that note I'd just like to mention that my upline, the man who thought he knew everything about the business, and was going to be retired on July 4th, 1997. It didn't happen. He also told me to go to church and give 10% of my income as a donation and all would be taken care of. Of all that he told me to do in the business to make it successful, he didn't practice what he preached. I found out that in the winter of 96, he was terminated for sexual improprieties at the restaurant where he was a General Manager. Upstanding and moral Amway representative that he is. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to sound out what has been on my mind the last couple of years. I applaud your bravery in standing up to those who try to tell us how to live our lives. For being, who those in the business, call "Dream-Stealers". I say Bravo. Good luck in the computer field. Also, check out Apogee's and 3D Realms web sites. They are always looking for programmers for new games.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1)
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
thank you my friend, i understand your story:
and at this very moment, you are influencing me to NOT sign
this fucking bullshit (i was in doubt..)
thanks
Quebec province, Canada
(french speaker, excuse my english..)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
your story is interesting and strong. you were right to put it on a web
page, and im sincerely shocked and scared by what i just read.
"... et dire que pendant 4 jours, du jeudi 15 janvier 1998 au lundi
19 janvier 1998, j'ai sérieusement pensé à me lancer dans cette
"business"; je suis si content d'avoir eu l'inspiration de browser un
peu sur le web, de trouver ta page, de la lire, et de me dire que je
venais plus de me faire un ami de cette manière qu'en allant à une
réunion de 500 personnes down in Markham, Toronto City, at the Embassy
Suites, this week end..."
merci encore, thanx a lot
Christian, Montréal, province of
quebec,
Canada.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! youppi!!!!! i feel great (like so few times
before)
Rough translation, in my rusty french: "And to say that for 4 days, from Jan 15 1998 to Monday the 19th 1998, I was seriously thinking of getting into this "business"; I am so glad I had the inspiration to browse on the web a little, to find your page, read it, and say that I had just just made a friend in this manner go (?) to a reunion of 500 people in Markham..."
And my reply:
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3)
Tue, 20 Jan 1998
Merci beaucoup pour ta lettre interessante. Je suis content que tu a
decide ne pas joindre Amway et j'espere que tu auras beaucoup de success
dans tout que tu faises.
J'espere aussi que mon francais n'est pas trop mal pour comprendre...
je n'en ai parle beaucoup depuis six ans. :)
Bon chance toujours,
Russell
Self translation: "Thank you very much for your interesting letter. I'm glad you decided not to join Amway and I hope that you will have much success in all that you do.
I also hope my French is not too bad to understand... I haven't spoken it much for six years. :)
Good luck always, Russell
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 20 Jan 1998 WOW! Can they teach me to manipulate like that? Loved reading your story. My husband and I entered into an agreement to become distributors in December, 1997. His boss's boss lured us in and we joined to the tune of $200. God help us -- we knew better, but had the same experience you had with someone that we really trusted. Tonight is the first time that I found anything like this on the internet. I'm glad you are here, because I could never articulate the bulk of the 'creepy' feelings that I got when we decided to join. Now that I have this information I'm not sure where I'm going with it. Breaking down this affiliation is going to be difficult being that it is my husband's boss's boss. Hubby still thinks we can go diamond if we get up off of our asses and stop hanging around with people that aren't motivating, I guess I did too, but the whole thing just didn't set right. Keep up the good work. Let people know that YES - you should trust your own instincts, not your uplines. I don't think that we've gotten a straight answer from them yet, just more hype and tapes. We'll be OK. In fact, we'll be stronger for this one. Interested in info and suggestions you have for those who already belong to the cult. Now I'm not only broke, but I'm a loser and a sucker! Good thing we have good self esteem...
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Are you aware of what countries Amway does business in? There's a list somewhere on the web, but sorry, I forgot the address. Amway operates in some of the world's poorest nations. El Salvador, Guatamala, Indonesia... they have 143,000 distributors in Taiwan! Thailand had more, and Brazil over twice that. Many of the world's largest companies avoid such nations because the population is too poor to buy their products. But not Amway! They can change people's lives. I wonder if they enforce their unofficial "Christians only" policy. It would be beneficial to many people if you placed a copy of that list on your page. You will probably find it interesting, as well. I do a lot online research about MLM, and you are one of the top two or three truth advocates available. Keep up the good work.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Thank you Russell for taking the time to write your story. I had been watching TV and saw and ad for AMWAY and decided to check the Internet for some of their prices. Thanks to you I won't even get that far in my interest in AMWAY. :) I have recently moved to a small town (a 2 hour drive from the nearest COSTCO) and the commercial gave me an idea for starting my own small business ... instead of the 2000 or so people who drive to COSTCO every month maybe if my prices were competitive I could sell them the bulk food and supplies that they needed. Anyway, your story reminded me of my own near experience with joining AMWAY. My recruiter was also vague, manipulating and I began to feel almost as if I was being stalked for almost three weeks. Finally, I exploded, and in no uncertain terms told him to leave me alone. Even though I wouldn't be recruiting people, I know now that I couldn't in good consceince be a part of a company which employed such intrusive and manipulative recriutment tactics. Again thanks ... I'll go off into the Internet and search for a different mail order company. :)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Thanks for the information. My husband and I were approached by a family member who is new to the Amway family -- they are anxious to make lots of money in this business. Of course, it appears very inviting, but your web site has "enlightened" us. What can we provide to our family member to "enlighten" them?
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 21 Jan 1998 You have made a difference. Thanks.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Dear Russell, Thanks from "downunder" for your messages. Have you received any more mail since 6th Dec? An update of your latest e-mails would be appreciated, especially now that a law-suit against Yager and Co. has been issued by Diamond Distributor, Kelly Robbins, and a number of (14?) emeralds. I thank you and Sidney Schwartz for making this information available to us in Australia, who were (like everyone else that has been sponsored by these notorious A.M.O's) , before the emergence of the web, invited to "CHECK IT OUT". Yours, saner now than for the last 8 years,
Subject: (no subject)
Fri, 23 Jan 1998
Dear Russell:
I think your biggest mistake with your site was admitting your age (and
by default, your income bracket). I am writing and self publishing an
MLM, and when I converse with people on line, or when I finally publish
it, I will NEVER use my real age (20) or real name. (Though you could
easily figure it out with any sort of investigation, starting with my
email address).
Most people would naturally assume that you're a 40 year old upper
middle class white male. By admitting that you're a card carrying
member of the so-called "Generation X," you automatically discredit
yourself to anyone who believes "Reality Bites"-influenced hype.
Naysayers have an even better reason to naysay than simply becasue
you're disgruntled.
I bet everyone tries telling you what to do, so here's my two cents:
start a competing site but use an alias instead. You will probably
receive much less "you're too young" dismissals. It will also appear
more "legitimate." It needn't be as detailed; just provide a link to
this page. Few people would ever begin to suspect (though you would
have to doctor your writing because you have a distinctive voice). You
are a major player in the MLM truth game now, and whether you like it or
not, you've taken on a lot of responsibility.
I notice that many people think that because big business do business
with Amway legitimate. I suggest you provide as many example as
possible of big businesses who engage in illegal ventures (ex: Baush and
Lomb is suspected of laundering drug money, Shell Oil uses the Nigerian
gov't as a hit squad, etc.).
Thanks for reading this and continued good luck. "Chris"
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Sat, 24 Jan 1998
"Chris",
I haven't decided yet whether I'm more amused or insulted by the
implication that the only way that I can gain credibility for myself is
to lie about my age, my career, and background. I am certainly large
quantities of both. Even though you sound like you are attempting to
support me (I'm not sure whether you really are or not)
> I think your biggest mistake with your site was admitting your age (and
> by default, your income bracket).
...
> By admitting that you're a card carrying
> member of the so-called "Generation X," you automatically discredit
> yourself to anyone who believes "Reality Bites"-influenced hype.
I mean, first of all, you so obviously have no idea ("by default") what
my income bracket really is. What do you think, that because I'm a
so-called "Gen X" people will automatically "know" that I live in a
cramped apartment with ten strangers who have names like "Puck" and work
at McDonald's?
What do you think was this income bracket I was "admitting"? 10
grand? 20? In reality I have a college degree and I make double that,
even though this is only my first job outside of school. That's
significantly more than an Amway Direct Distributor makes, and more than
a very large number of much older people make.
> I bet everyone tries telling you what to do, so here's my two cents:
> start a competing site but use an alias instead. You will probably
> receive much less "you're too young" dismissals. It will also appear
> more "legitimate." It needn't be as detailed; just provide a link to
> this page. Few people would ever begin to suspect (though you would
> have to doctor your writing because you have a distinctive voice). You
> are a major player in the MLM truth game now, and whether you like it or
> not, you've taken on a lot of responsibility.
>
All right, here's where you are very wrong. I will NEVER lie to people
in order to appear that I know what I'm talking about. That's what
distributors would do to make themselves look good in business. That
goes against everything I believe.
Amway caters to the lowest common denominator, believing that people
have to be coerced and tricked in order to reach what they believe is
"The Truth." That's what "the curiosity approach" is all about. I do
not so cater or so believe.
I do not now or ever have anything to hide about my life. If people
believe, disingenuously, that I am lying or stupid because of my age,
then these are the kind of people who would never agree with me anyway,
and so I accept that.
> I notice that many people think that because big business do business
> with Amway legitimate. I suggest you provide as many example as
> possible of big businesses who engage in illegal ventures (ex: Baush and
> Lomb is suspected of laundering drug money, Shell Oil uses the Nigerian
> gov't as a hit squad, etc.).
>
And furthermore, I do not promote myself through unfounded speculation
and rumors. What I have written on my web page is very well supported,
and what is opinion is clearly stated to be. And that's how it will
stay.
Mon, 26 Jan 1998
For the record, I DO support you. You have one of the most interesting,
fascinating, inofmrative, and entertaining sites on the web.
You've realized by now that ALL network marketers think that they are a)
always right, and b) better than everyone else. I admit that I also made
certain assumptions about you, but I'm not trying to discredit you, either.
You did make several good points in your response, however. I will
consider my own stance on hiding behind aliases.
Because you've convinced hundreds of people to not spend tens of thousands
of dollars on Amway, don't you fear that Amway will intimidate you with
legal action, hostile threats, or worse? You're telling the truth, yes,
but what does Amway care? That is my biggest fear in associating my real
name with a product (my booklet) which will hopefully dissuade people from
spending their money on network marketing. Aren't you concerned about your
safety?
An avid supporter,
Chris
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 23 Jan 1998 hey man, you reached me. i'm also a computer science major - at illinois state univeristy. i was approached last night. got the name amway and told this dick (i can't beleive he was in my fucking house) that i was going to do some research on the internet. he did'nt seem to happy about it at the time. now i see why. not just your page, but many other out there has given a lot of insight to what this is all about. now the question is, how do i handle him coming over this tuesday night with his wife? any sugestions?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 24 Jan 1998 Mr. Glasser, I just want to say that the hyperlink on page two the 1st this page is no longer working or has moved.i must say that much of whatt you say is interesting and probably accurate for your own personal experience. I must confess that I have not been told or heard on a tape not to tell a potential new recruit about Amway until a few times. We are waarned that just saying this is Amway might be a turn off. I personally do tell my prospects in the first meeting. You are right about the tapes they are repetitive. And many do say Amway is the be all and end all for them.It does take a lot of talking to people and many more contacts than one might expect and is presented at first. I have personaaly talk with ove 1000 people and have bee able to get only 3 in. We are still trying though. But I am fast getting to the point enough is enough already. Actually, loosing money in business loss has help my income taxes at he end of the year. I realize that I am not nor will I get "Rich" quick in the business. My hope is that some "success" with come eventually. What do you suggest beside getting out of Amway? Are ther other things out there to help suppliment your regular income and maybe help eleminate a "job"? My wife and I are better than average distributor because we make more than $50.00 per year in the MLM business.
Subject: Your Amway Experience Sun, 25 Jan 1998 Just finished reading your whole story! F-A-B-U-L-O-U-S! You really know how to write a story - another one of your qualities (also read your home page). Got recruited by Amway some 14-15 years ago and just yesterday, had two of my cousins (who I haven't seen or heard from in over 11 years) to explain to me how different Amway is today. But I didn't see it. My friends at work told me: "if they don't tell why - it's got to be Amway". They were here from 2:00pm to 5:30pm. I finally had to tell them I was expecting a friend for diner and had to start my diner. I told my cousins I wanted to do more research before I made a decision (with no intention of signing up). The sponsor said: "I'll call you next week". I said, "make it two weeks, I have a full-time job during the day". They are telling how they can make $3,000 to $4,000 a month. I told them, I already make that! I asked the "Direct" cousin how long she's been in it and how much money she's made so far. "I've only just started" she says, "it's been a year", I'm up to $1500. a month". (I was laughing so hard within myself, I thought it would show on my face! I excused myself and went to the washroom!). Anyhow, just wanted to let you know what a pleasure it was to read you. Take care and keep going!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sun, 25 Jan 1998 I found your opinions to be insightful and well thought out but found myself not tottally in agreement.yes I am an active distributor and have been for more than 2 years.Am I rich yet?no.Will I be is up to me.Do I regret having joined?no.What I have learned from the tapes /books/rallies has changed mine and my families lives for the betterin my opinion.When I started this business excursion we were heavily in debt and one very poor relationship between me and my spouse.Since that time with what I've learned about finances through my association with the business, has wiped out almost all the debt.My kids have learned through association with folks we met through the business that there is other ways of living instead of doing what the committee of they say is acceptable.One has made a sports team which 2 years ago would not have tried out for because of his self esteem but now knows he can do anything he wants to without fear of failure because he will always be a winner as long as he tries.Another bonus is my sister and their family have gotten involved and also my mom which has brought a closeness to our family that really was never there.For my mom who is on a fixed income it is allowing her to get off the system and hold her head up with pride.So is it all bad?I really don't think so.Every individual has a right to choose and can only do so once given the info to make an educated decision.For me I believe fully that that decision has paid of and will continue to do so.The only sad part of my story is that my commonlaw spouse of 7 years decided to end the relatioship and in doing so in a very short period of time has plummetted herself into 15,000 worth of debt.Was the departure due to the business?No.the business gave us 2 years more than we would have had because we finally had something in common.You know how the story goes when one door closes a million others wait to be opened.Ilook forward to your reply if you answer your emails if not then all I can say is don't let anybody steal your dreams.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 26 Jan 1998 Yes, I think I am some kind of fanatic! My husband and I got the Amway pitch for the second time. The first was about 3 years ago and we just rejected it outright as a bunch of baloney. This time, however, we actually wanted to investigate it a bit more. Thank goodness for the internet! Thanks for taking the time and energy to relate your story. It has been a good read and food for thought!
Subject: Some do, Some don't! Mon, 26 Jan 1998 Humm! How many businesses succeed and how many fail? Hundreds and thousands, of course. Same thing with Amway. Some fail, some succeed. Amway, as a whole, works. It is proven its worth. Perhaps not enough for you or others. But it works. Question? If you had gained a level of accomplishment from this company, would you have written all this? Have you ever failed at anything else in life and written a web page about that? I have never been approached by Amway distibutors, other network marketers yes, just not Amway. If Amway is so bad, why are other companies copying their format? Seems to me that something works. Let me leave you with this-- "Those who say it can't be done, should not interrupt those trying to do it!" Good Luck!
Subject: Thank you all for your informations !! Mon, 26 Jan 1998 Hy Guys, [I apologize for my english - sorry !!!] I'd' like to thank all the people on the net (Mr. Sidney Schwartz and you, 4 example) for the informations about the 'untold story' (& related links) about Amway !! THE BEGINNING.... Who am I ?? I am a boy who is 'entered' in the 'beatiful' (!) Amway world in the october'97. Ok, so the business started.... Here in Italy (at least, in Verona) the situation isn't so 'hard' like I have readed in some text-files around the web, but month after month I realised that the wonderful things listened to the 'meetings' (and so on) could hide the whole truth. Ok, my sponsors are (I realised) good people, no one told me 'Hey - You must buy this and that to succeed in your business', this is not the point. They helped me. They BELIEVE in what they are doing. Too much ! .... THE LIGHT !! The fact is that the average price of the products doesn't seems to be very competitive compared with similar ones (Are you smiling ? ;^). Also, certain products don't 'work' so well like upper-line told me. (Dish Drop, 4 example!) And this is only the top of the iceberg !! Internet (and you) show me the *very best* of the rest. This is my request: I would like to collect technical informations regardings the EFFECTIVE value (quality/price) of the products of Amway or/and legal actions versus this corporation to demonstrate to other 'ambos' what is the real Amway 'great opportunity'. [I have not visited all the sites containing these infos !!] Why 'technical' informations ? I'm already starting to read all the stories presented in the web, but I think with the right demostrations people (my sponsors, 4 example!) cannot answer back me with some 'brain-washed phrases' (negative people vs positive ones, ecc. ecc.). Mathematic is not an opinion, after all. We hope !! Here in my organization nobody (i think - at least diamonds ??) know nothing or nobody know how to reach these informations. So people continue to go ahead like blind men. This is the life.
Tue, 27 Jan 1998 Hi Russel, I've found your site by chance, but I must say it interests me a lot. Thanks for all the work you've put in to design it and to keep it running! I come from Lausanne, Swizerland, and I'm bussy to collect some reactions and opinions about the Amway business. In fact your site helped me a lot to fill up my collection of for and against. Would you mind if I copy down some parts of your text? Not to leave it like that, but in fact to pick out some keypoints which seem interesting and strong enough to be translated into german and/or french, the two major languages of Swizerland. While reading myself through your site I had to find out that part three is not printable because the background is bright and the text is white. So if you don't mind to mail me this part in a printable way, I would be very happy. Like this I can finnish up my work and share it with a lot of other persons who want to know more about Amway- good things and bad ones also. Thanks a lot for your cooperation and looking foreward to hear/read from you as soon as possible.
Subject: hi
Tue, 27 Jan 1998
Hi Mr. Glasser,
I am a young single software programmer from india who joined amway a
year ago.after reading your article, i am almost in tears as you have
positively confirmed my worst fears about amway. I have suffered under
'the delusion' you described for a year and though it started wearing
off late last year i used to put the blame on myself thinking that maybe
i was unfortunately a born ' non dreamer' and i have to try harder. i
was ashamed that i was not excited like other people, felt that i would
be letting down all these'wonderful' people in the line of sponsorship.
your article is god sent to me. I have been a lover of mankind so far
and believed in truth, goodness, honesty etc everything 'amway' people
talk about. All my beliefs are being challenged today and i feel
mentally weak and depressed about the whole thing. God knows what would
have happened if i had not read the internet articles. I shudder to
think how i would have been grossly manipulated and still worse how i
would be trained to manipulate other innocent families.
the conclusion for me is obvious . i am going to get out of it and also
convey the internet info to my downlines. I feel like an idiot today.
i have spent enormous amount of money in one year ( i was a core idiot
that attended five functions, several rallies, open meetings, almost
arrested recently for reckless driving while trying to make it to one
function on time, bought an average of 15 tapes a month, several books
and Bull Shit Materials and also on Amvox voice mail through out the
year)and i can think of several nice 'core' friends who are trapped in
this scheme like me that havent woken up yet and it makes me totally
sick in the stomach that such gross injustice can be played in the name
of god and free enterprise on one hand and the diamond gang is
completely idolized on the other hand for their honesty and integrity!
shame on these people.
A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT MIGHT BE OF RESEARCH INTEREST TO YOU.
1. a large number of asian indian professionals are involved in this
business in bill britt organzation. now a lot of them dont have
green card or citizenship and I STRONGLY BELIEVE that they have
been lied to about the legality of doing business in america. i have
reason to believe that new immigrants with no citizenship status are
being actively targeted because they would have never heard of '
amway' and are most susceptible to these amway predators
here.
2. Functions are the biggest farce in this business. After functions
when people get hyped up a lot about the business, these emeralds
and diamonds tempt a lot of fresh distributors to buy a large quantity
of 'tools' and all the bright eyed brainwashed innocents fall for it. i
was one of the victims that acted impusively. so many people make
stupid impulsive decision to join the business and expend a lot after
attending these major functions (FUN and ACTION).
i only request that you keep my email anonymous and confidential.
you see not only am i angry,frustrated, depressed but sometimes i am
also afraid of these people.
respond if you get time. i will keep in touch. Thank you sincerely.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 28 Jan 1998 I pretty much turned it down after the first "rally". Frankly they scare the crap out of me. The guy who tried to talk me into it is my ice hockey ref at the local rink, he's actually a really nice guy and he was cool when I told him it's not for me. Just wanted to say it is an interesting account and I thouroughly enjoyed it.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 28 Jan 1998 Awesome web page, man!! Y'know, I can see SO many of those tactics in use when I went to one of their "business presentations" this last week. Your story is truly wonderful, and you probably saved my wife and I much money.
Subject: Your Amway story Wed, 28 Jan 1998 Wow! What a story. I've been approached over the years by the same type of people. When I lived in California a couple joined our church and began getting involved in various ministries. One day they came to my door with their baby in a stroller and said they were out walking in the neighborhood and thought they would drop in. They lived across town and had driven over and parked out of sight. They began to tell me that I had really been in their thoughts and that I was a very talented person (I directed the choir and led worship at the church) and that I seemed to be very business minded. I had been introduced once to these people. Anyway, they began questioning me about what unfulfilled dreams I had and what I feared about my future. They asked if I was presented with a way to make all my dreams come true would I take it? I kept asking what all this was about and they got more and more excited and more and more vague. It finally turned totally financial and I said look around you. I had just bought a new home, two new cars, a spa, my children had everything they wanted, I made over six figures plus a very nice year end bonus, and I had a sizable nest egg growing. They didn't bat an eye. They said but what if you could make that in a month! I said I would use it to feed and shelter the homeless. I finally said you two are with Amway aren't you? They still tried to tap dance but finally admitted it. I told them I wasn't interested and then they got angry and said that if I wanted to continue to be a failure and never give my children the kind of life they deserved I could just keep working my JOB! They ended up insulting almost the entire church and eventually moved out of our town. I do have to say that other MLMs have been presented to me much the same way and I have always been polite but very firm in saying no. However, since moving to Indiana two years ago my outlook on MLM has changed. My wife and I had become very close with one couple from our new church and are in a small group together. After knowing them for two years they finally said that they had noticed all the vitamins and supplements in our kitchen and asked what the deal was. I told them that I had lost over 90 pounds 7 years ago and had kept it off by working out and eating right along with supplementing. They said that they were with a MLM company that had over 350 nutritional products and it was called Nutrition for Life International. The guy is the prosecutor of the county we live in so I was shocked that he would be involved in something so shady. He explained that NFLI was a publicly traded company on NASDAQ and that he had checked it out before he let his wife join. He said he didn't pay any attention to the business until they got a letter from the company stating that they had qualified for a free car. They bought the car and sent the payment book to NFLI and they make the payments. Anyway, to make a long story short I checked out their products against what I was buying at GNC and my wife was buying at Puritans Pride and found that the quality and quantity was better and if I became a distributor I could save quite a bit. So we went to a presentation and ended up becoming executives (means you are in a 4x7 matrix) in September of 1997. I sponsored 4 people the following week and made all my initial investment back the following month. As of today we have 20 executives and 12 distributors in our organization. They too have business tools (tapes and books) but no one pushes them. In fact the people at the top (one came here recently and did home meetings) tells everyone that the tools are there if you want to use them but all you really need is the business video and an application form. Actually, I like to show the business myself so I really don't need the video. Everything is totally upfront and the marketing compensation plan even shows the low, avg., and high earnings at every level. Everyone from distributor to executive to the people who just want to order something from your catalog deals directly with NFLI and the checks are mailed direct to each individual. The main point to this business is the products and from the president on down people stress that you become a product of the products. My friend who I sponsored started on one of the products with his doctor's consent and after two weeks was taken off his high blood pressure medication. After six weeks he's lost 22 pounds! Even if I didn't make a dime I would still buy my vitamins, supplements, and food supplements from NFLI. But it sure is nice to get a check too. It cost us $699.00 to become executives and for that we got a really nice success kit, $750.00 (retail) worth of great products, and $260.00 (retail) worth of tools (that's probably all the tools we'll need for the next year). In the 5 months we've been in we've made almost $1200.00! The people who sponsored us are now at the level where they were able to buy the dream home they've been looking at for two years. I'm sorry if I've rambled but I just wanted to say that there are some real MLMs out there, or at least one. This is the first email I've ever sent on the Internet so I hope it works! Once again thanks for the site.
I won't share this guy's identity or signature, but it was another one of those guys who the "President of So-And-So Enterprises", the very lofty title which one acquires the moment they blow 700 bucks on starter kit.
Was almost tempted to slap an "obnoxious self promotion deleted" over all the MLM blah blah, but I decided it was amusing enough to leave in.
Subject: Your Amway story.... Thu, 29 Jan 1998 Hy Russell !!! [I apologize for my english !!!] I'm a very satisfied *EX* Amway distributor !! In yor amway-site, I readed: - "I'm going to tell all my friends about Amway, and I'm going to put everything I've learned on my web page." Phil laughed once again. - "You WILL fail," he said with mock confidence. "And you'll fail for the same reason that these HACKS that you listened to were failing. The internet, hah! You'll never reach anybody that way." Yeah !!! I'm from Verona, Veneto, Italy (pizza & spaghetti) !!! The Internet, hah !!! It's a few day I learned the truth THANK to Internet and people like you & Mr Schwartz !! THANK YOU A LOT !!! GREAT WORK !!! I entered in Amway in the end of September 1997; I was a 3% and I made a downline with some of my friends (still my friends, I'm lucky !!). But something told me 'Hey guy, there is something wrong.' (Italy situation isn't like the American situation, until now). Not for my upline, obiviously - for those people all is wonderful - they are all my friends, etc. etc. [... rah rah rah stuff removed !!!] [Well, what's wrong ??? Product prices (where's the saving???), their quality (Consumer Report Rulez!) and the big amount of lies that I listened in these months !!] The nice things happen in these days, I'm telling these info to my sponsor. He isn't a bad person - but I think he's completely brain damaged by his (his ?) business. These people are like blind men, you can show them the truth, lawsuits versus Amway Corp & versus former distributors - they still continue to say always the same things, the same story .... Whell, the nightm... ehm, the Dream (!) in now finished !!! What a wonderful thing TO HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATIONS.... What's appening now ??? I'm searching & saving all the info about the Amway situation - of course !! I admit I was wrong. In first place, its the FU*KING RIGHT THING to do !! P.S.: free to put this mail in your web. With my Name & e-mail address, of course !! Best Regards, Luca Fossato [foxat@sis.it]
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 29 Jan 1998 I didn't have time to read your whole story but I understand what you are talking about. I was in Amway once. Bottom line is who wants to be involved with a company where you have to deceive people to get them to join? Like you said, the guy whom you met while browsing software wasn't interested in you or your interests; he was interested in making you one of his 'six' direct distributors so he could be a diamond. Amway has given network marketing a bad name but they are good for teaching people how not to do multi-level marketing.
HOW NOT TO DO MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING, an instructional guide by Russell.
Step one: Join a multi-level marketing group.
Step two: Be active.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...well part three anyway
Wed, 28 Jan 1998
Dear looser, *LOL*
Just love your last line in Part three...to be truthful
Part Three is the only one I read....I think I have met Phil
& Ted...but mine were called Sharne & Rob...same story line
same replies....same hopeless dream stealer that you are.
I also now spend my time...telling people not to join,
after I left "the business'..I bought a television from a local
dealer...the salesman phoned me up about a week later and asked
how the T.V. was going, I thought what great service (How soon
we forget)..yep you guessed it...started to ask me about, was
I interested in making money...and said the famous words..
..."You look like a sharp guy"....I said "I was, and he could
jam his SA-8 right up his ass.and..If he phoned me again I would
go down to the store and do it for him"..He says "no need to be rude"
I explode and inform him he is the rude one "soliciting" his
employers customers and invading their evenings with false pretences
this did not stop him (must have been to one too many meetings)
I hung up the phone at this point...Next day went to store..
saw Manager/ Owner of store and informed Him what salesman was
doing to one of his customers...Amway Dest/Salesman was told
to say sorry in front of other staff and informed not to call
me again....
Keep spreading the word !
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 29 Jan 1998
My husband and I went to a meeting a few days ago with AMWAY. The lady
that invited me goes to my church. She called and I asked her what the
meeting was about and she just simply said "buying wholesale products at
retail prices". My husband is a computer engineer (thank goodness) and
thinks deeply about any decision that has to do with money and time. I,
on the other hand, love the idea of becoming a millionaire quickly so I
began falling for it. My husband looked on the internet while at work
today and found your site among many others. Tonight I spoke with this
lady on the phone (very nice) and she used a lot of tactics on me. I
got off the phone and said to my husband "The meeting we said we would
go to costs $18.00." He laughed and said that the things he read on the
web were true. I wondered a little and called her back and told her
because of my gift basket business I started I don't have any money left
to spend $330.00 to get started in this program. Her husband called me
back and answered many of my (similar) questions. So I thought "okay, I
will spend $18.00 on this meeting Saturday and I am excited". When I
got off the phone my husband showed me your site. He showed me some
other sites that were pro and anti. I honestly feel more peaceful on
the anti. Many things that you have said in your article was exactly
the same words, techniques, etc. that they fed me. It is so hard to
believe! With just a few of their "words" I get all excited. They
truly have some sort of manipulation going on. I feel just like you
when I say, these people are wonderful. I only wonder if they
realize...I wish I could help them.
Good luck with everything else in your life and THANK YOU for taking
your time to save other people from a big mistake.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 29 Jan 1998
HI Russell
It's me again, *****. I just have one more thing to say!
"The guilty taketh the truth to be hard"
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 29 Jan 1998 You wanna buy some soap?
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 29 Jan 1998 Russell, That was one of the funniest things my wife and I have ever read. I almost joined but will not after reading this and another page. Good Work... If your not a writer you have the Gift.
Subject: Your Amway story
Thu, 29 Jan 1998
Thank you so much for posting this story. Due to this web site
at least one person (Me) and hopefully my "friend" who is in the group
will not be a part of Amway. Leave this story up for as long as possible
so that more people can benifit from it - once again thankyou
*****
Not an Amway person
(Thanks to you)
Subject: thank you Fri, 30 Jan 1998 I just wanted to thank you for letting people know your experience. Somebody tried to let me in the amway ¿bussiness?. Thanks god I tried first to be informed about what this stuff was. I don´t need any answer. Thank you
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 30 Jan 1998 just knew I'd find some good stuff on amway on the net.going to print this off and give it to family and friends trying to drive this down my throat. maybe amway should cross breed with goals 2000.then we'd have a work force with just enough brains to work for amway.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 30 Jan 1998
I just became a customer - I do like the products. Am I already in Hot
soup. Or can I stay here.
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Fri, 30 Jan 1998
Two comments, first of all if you aren't considering signing up as a
distributor then things shouldn't get too crazy, but be on the lookout
for people who will try to convince you to do things (meetings, tapes,
etc) that you don't want to do.
Second, you may like the products but that may not be separated from
the hype surrounding them in your mind. You owe it to yourself to at
least do a little comparison shopping.
As long as you're not paying any kind of "startup fee" and you're not
buying into nebulous claims about overpriced magic vitamins and
incredible "undiluted" soap, you are certainly not doing anything to
hurt yourself.
Subject: Amway Sat, 31 Jan 98 Hi Russell, Just wanted to thank you for putting up the information on your experience w/Amway. I was approached in a fitness club by an Amway person just a few days ago and give a couple of tapes and a CD video. I use the internet for business a great deal and immediately went searching for info on Amway... your story was the first I have read. Perphaps you outta get into writing as a career... I commend you on an extremely well-written "story". And needless to say the information you have passed on to countless people like me is enlightening.. to say the least. Not likely I'll go much further in investigating the big "A" after reading your experiences. Again, thanks for putting up the website; keep up the good work. I feel that after reading your story that you have an extremely good handle on your life... no question you'll be successful - happy. Hope you're enjoying your work and life!
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 31 Jan 1998 Thanks for your on-the-nose description of the Devil-ridden Amway company. Let me tell you my experience! My wife and I were invited by mutual "friends" to a presentation by the woman's uncle about a moneymaking opportunity. I said "Yes". I also asked several other friends "what it could be?" One fellow warned me about, you guessed it, Amway! He said "watch out for the demonstration comparing SA8 to Tide. They'll add some Tide to a jar of water, shake it up, and say "LOOK AT ALL OF THAT CRAP FLOAATING AROUND - DO YOU WANT THAT FILTHY-LOOKING RESIDUE ON YOUR CLOTHES?" Then they'll put some SA* in a jar of water, shake it up, and say "LOOK! NO RESIDUE! SA8 IS MUCH BETTER FOR YOU THAN TIDE!" My friend proceeded to tell me what they will not tell you at the time of their demo - that those suspended particulates are perfumed much like any fabric softener, and help to make your clothes smell clean and fresh. SA8 DOESN'T contain anything like this, it's true - one must purchase and use their fabric softener at quite a substantial cost in order to have clothes as fresh-smelling as if Tide was used! If it goes into SA8 smelling like an old gym bag - it comes OUT smelling like an old gym bag! Of course, during the presentation, I mentioned that the "crap" floating around was there to provide a fresh smell to the laundry, and asked what a load of laundry resulting from use of SA8 smelled like. The presenter gave me a dirty look and continued with his spiel. Later, he asked "What would each of you buy if you had a million dollars?" The other couples present named things like boats, jewelry, cars, etc. I said that I'd invest it in small hi-tech companies, and watch my million grow by leaps and bounds over the next 20 years. Again, he gave me a look that could kill, and laughed "it takes ALL kinds!" So, my little $10,000 investment soon after this episode is now worth over one million. I'm SO happy that I knew what a scam this Amway pyramid scheme is! Where is Marci's "uncle" today? Probably still trying to pay off his bills! As for me, I'm content to just watch the stock market and count my money. Amway? NOWAY!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 31 Jan 1998 Hi! Just wanted to let you know someone is reading your web page. ***** ****** OF HERMITAGE, TN JUST LEFT MY HOME. HE MET ME AND STRUCK UP A CONVERSATION AT MY JOB, IN A SHOE STORE. I KNOW TO BE WARY OF PEOPLE IN THAT SITUATION BUT HE ASKED ME WHAT MY HUSBAND DID FOR A LIVING. I INNOCENTLY TOLD HIM HE WAS TRYING TO GET HIS GOLF GAME TOGETHER TO GO PRO. HE TOLD ME HE WAS A BROKER (?) AND WORKED WITH ALOT OF MEN TRYING TO GO PRO. SO I THINK TO MYSELF , OPPURTUINITY FOR MY HUSBAND AND GAVE HIM OUR #. THREE WKS. LATER HE CALLED MY HUSBAND, WHO UNKNOWINGLY INVITED THE LION INTO THE DEN. WE SPENT 2HRS TALKING ABOUT THE MOST WORLDLY THINGS AND HOW IF WE JOINED HIM IN ?? WE COULD HAVE IT ALL! MIX IN A LITTLE EMOTION, MINDGAMES, AND DONT YOU WANT TO BE A GOOD MOTHER(STAY HOME MOM). vERY TEMPTING EXCEPT GOD DOESN'T WANT YOU TO HAVE EVERTHING YOU EVER WANT ON THIS EARTH. PLEASE REPLY TO US. IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO GET THIS GUY NOT TO CALL AGAIN? DONT LIKE HIM OR HIS VALUES. THANKS!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 01 Feb 1998 Thanks greatly for your story! I am a university graduate who feels exactly the way you do about Amway. Unfortunately, my mother just joined amway as a distributor and i see her buying all these "tapes" and going to her cult amway meetings. I am going to show her your article and others but I'm afraid that she will just react like Tom did in your story. She is totally brainwashed and wants to believe in get-rich quick schemes. I am afraid she will burn up her retirement savings and get screwed ( Amway is all she has now ). Anyhow, your article confirmed everything i have been feeling lately and wish to thank you greatly for taking the time to write it.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Sun, 1 Feb 1998
I'm sorry but you are sadly misguided and have a poor grasp of the facts.
Since I first saw your site about a year ago my business has grown to the
point where My wife and are making a substantial income. Some people, such
as you, THINK they are smarter than everyone else and never quite grasp the
true potential. I hope you have the integrity to post my letter so other
visitors can see that there are people that are making money in this
honestly and ethically.
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Sun, 01 Feb 1998
> I'm sorry but you are sadly misguided and have a poor grasp of the facts.
> Since I first saw your site about a year ago my business has grown to the
> point where My wife and are making a substantial income.
Would you care to be specific?
Sun, 1 Feb 1998
Dear Sir,
I visited your site a while ago and enjoyed it. Of particular use was
a link entitled "this page" in your "Part 2: You will be assimilated."
Recently, I attempted to use that link and it did not work. I would
very much like to obtain a copy of the mathematical calculations
showing that very few people make any money in Amway. Any assistance
that you could offer would be much appreciated.
Willynet is a flaky server. The page is still there; try to access it again if you missed it the first time.
The calculations are mostly not in part II, but in the arguments page.
Subject: Amway Sun, 1 Feb 98 First I would like to thank you for writing and maintaining your impressive anti-Amway web page. As a college student myself, I experienced a very similar experience with Amway, the difference being that I only wasted one evening of my life on Amway, where you spent a few weeks under the Amway 'cult' Thankfully, after attending one Amway 'rally' I was skeptical enought to do a web search, finding your site. After reading your very well written story me and my two roomates were enlighted to the highly questionable practices of Amway. After having a little fun with the Amway recruiters over the phone we were done with Amway for good. Since, I've refered many friends to your website on my own little personal crusade against Amway. Again thank you for providing such a well thought out website, and good luck in your future persuits. I'm sure that a person with your talents will have no trouble leading a successful and fulfilling life, realizing that getting Amway money is not worth loosing your friends and your integrety for.
Subject: what else but Amway.. Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Hi, I'm an ex Amway distributor in Australia who has just sent up a homepage today and would be interested in Australian feedback. The site is pretty rough..not being an HTML expert but hopefully I can improve on it. Have fun and lets bust 'em globally, yours in conspiracy, the cheeky one, Ann the homepage on tripod is... http://members.tripod.com/~dreamsteal/index.html
Subject: Disgruntled distributor Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Greetings!! My name is *****. My husband and I are curretly inactive Amway distributors after being very active and "core' since March, 1994. I really like your web page and just wish I had read it earlier...like 4 years ago! We are both college educated and have successful careers in Nursing and Engineering. (I'm the R.N). We were SO ripe for this business...I saw how we could make 2000$ per year in just 10 hours a week and I could quit my job and reitre at age 30 (I am now 32 and am still working). We were SO fired up...but I had lots of questions. I read Promises to Keep by Paul Conn and this helped assuage some apprehension that I had. But everytime I went to a hotel meeting to see the plan, the speaker would always bring up the negative press that the OLD Amway received...and would compare Amway to other companies like IBM (They would say "DO you know what IBM started out with? Meat Slicers! And now they make the worlds best computers!) They went to such great lengths to show you how good Amway is today. And you know, I always thought it was kind of odd and it never sat well with me. I mean, if the business is SO great and the "best business opportunity in the world", then shouldn't it be able to stand on its own merit without some grandiose sales pitch? Anyway, we decided to walk away after realizing that this"business" had cosumed our lives. We were part of the Britt System...supposedly the best system for acheiving financial independence in the entire free world. (Yuck!). I've seen Bill Britt in person many times over the years....he'd be speaking at marathown weekend seminars/rallies....(why does NO OTHER LEGITIMATE BUSINESS KEEP THEIR MEMBERS/EMPLOYEES/SALES PEOPLE UP UNTILL 2:00AM FOR 2 NIGHTS IN A ROW?)...and he wouln't come on untill Midnight or 1:00am. I never liked his views on anything I heard him say. He was the most pompus ass I have ever heard. (Of course my upline told me that millionaires speak differently than people who are broke. I guess this was supposed to make me realize the "error" of my thought process). I am a Jewish woman who is very independent (and very happily married...imagine that....and my husband must like me this way or he woulnd't have married me) and has a liberal attitude towards life. I like all kinds of people but found his dogma and rhetoric impossible to swallow....and the same goes for his Diamond cronies. (They are the most judgemental, critical people I have ever met. If you are a government official, college educated or homosexual, LOOK OUT. And if you believe in psychic phenomena or are into New Age stuff, forget it. And if you have a job, forget it. You WILL be slammed!) I was told I had to submit my ego to my husband (we decided to run our marriage with equal input...and with equal responsibilty for the outcomes). I was told I had to submit my ego to my upline and share not only my financial records with them, but also my personal life. (My history is VERY personal and belongs in the past....so why should I tell them my story and give them ammunition that could harm my well being? And when did they get the degree in psychoanalysis). I heard one Double Diamond on tape say "People in this business don't need psychiarists. They just need to read the self improvement books and counsel with their uplines." I can't believe I stayed active for as long as we did. We didn't want to quit. We didn't want to be labeled as quitters. But we couldn't go on being controlled. My husband and I would disagree before we got marreid...the usual relationship stuff....but we really started to fight after we got in Amway. Our upline told us it was because we only really started to talk after we got in Amway. (How did they know that?) We were told to contact and prospect young married couples aged 22-35...the "bell curve". I guess they are the most impressionable. We were told we'd be failures and worthless...just like a "stinking dead fish" if we quit. We were told that we'd NEVER acheive our dreams and goals through a job or a "traditional" business. We were told that even if we did have wealth, we'd never have lifestyle because we'd be a slave to a job/trad. business. Like I wouldn't be a slave to the Britt System? We spent thousands of dollars every year in "tools" to build our business....because "you want to be ready for the explosion that's going to happen...so invest now." (We've actually sold most of this crap back to our sponsor) We were told to build a friendship upline....to spend free time ONLY with people in our upline or downline....but never crossline or with our "negative" families. ( I like our families). Why didn't I see it coming? I even got SO depressed...I think deep down I knew this group of people was wrong for me....I ended up in therapy and on anti-depressants. I would feel so much better after seeing my therapist....but would feel so bad about myself after being around Amway people. (Yet another red flag.) And then there's the Christian thing....I don't know what your religious beliefs are...but they are just that...yours....and I'm sure you don't want me pusing mine onto you. We were told to get our spiritual lives "right"...meaning become Christian. (No thank you). We were told that wihtout God, we could NEVER build a successful business. (What about all the other people in the world who made a fortune doing illegal and unethical things?). The weekend functions ALWAYS had a "non-denominational church service " every Sunday morning. They ALWAYS talked about "Satan" (my Mother really liked that one when I finally told her). They would tell you that when you finally made a decision to build this buisness, you'd be attacked by evil, supernatural forces that don't want you to succeed. (I though we did make a decision when we got a kit. I guess we didn't really make a decision because we haven't gone direct yet....and that's what everybody told us....just make the decision and you'll go direct in 3 months...funny, we did more work that most people and we're still at 1000PV). And. I always though the Universe would support you in your decisions if they were for your highest good, not "attack" you. Plus I think when you keep meeting opposition and things are so hard, maybe you're going down the wrong path. I'm still trying to make sense of all of this. I do know that I am MUCH happier since I quit. My time is my own. My husband and I are laughing and having fun again. We are making plans not just for the future, but for tomorrow night and today! I really feel liberated. I was in a mentally and emotionally abusive relationship years ago with a guy who said he loved me. But at the same time it was the most undermining realtionship I've ever been in. It slowly ate away at my self-esteem, love of life, trust in myself and at my relationships with others. I gained 20 pounds and was miserable. It was the most insidious thing I've ever experienced....the wolf in sheeps clothing, if you will. Until now . The things I was told and the garbage I was fed left me feeling worthless, unsure of my self, depressed, miserable and 30 pounds heavier (this was on top of the 20 I gained after I got married). Again, it was so insidious and cloaked with the allure of riches. UGH! So again, thanks for putting together your web site. I was very glad to find it. I found it against the advice from my upline (of course). In fact, we were strongly cautioned to avoid all Amway web sites except the official site. Hmmm.....I can't imagine why! I'd love to hear your comments about my experience. Subject: disgruntled distributor..addendum Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Hi Russell. It's ***** again. I forgot to tell you this interesting tid bit. Our sponsors have 3 beautiful children. They were all born 1-2 weeks prior to a major weekend function..each at least 8 hours away. All 3 times, the "man" left his wife and new born baby behind so he could get around the heat at the functions. And he was always edified for it. Now, I haven't had children yet...but I know my husband would not leave me with a new born with no other family or friends available to help me. What really opened my eyes: Their 3rd child was born with an urgent, life threateneing heart defect...she was rushed to a local children's hospital's ICU within 2 hours of birth....and they didn't know if she would make it. This was on a Saturday. They stabilized her, did all sorts of tests and said it was ok to go home on Thursday. That Friday there was a weekend function about 16 hours away (by car). He flew out on Saturday and left his wife with a seriously ill newborn, and 2 other children under age 3 1/2. And that was his choice. (I don't know if that was her chioce). BUT, he got so much recognition and edification for this decision. He was asked to get up on stage in front of the whole crowd( several hundred people - many with young families) and talk about the topic of committment. Committment to whom? His wife and children or his upline and the "big team"? Where do this mans loyalties lie? I asked my husband what he would do? He said he would stay home with me. I said good, because otherwise I would divorce him. (Strong words for me...we're in this marriage forever.) Can you believe he was edified for being a "real man" and being "totally committed to this business"? What if his baby had died? Or what if she had a acute episode and needed open heart surgery that night. His wife would have been left to cope, ALONE...as she is many a night and weekend. I still get so pissed when I think about this. He was the hero. Yet when my Grandmother died last September, not one person recognized me for doing the "right" thing and going to the team meeting that night! What a bunch of hippocrites! Oh, and when theres a tragedy or a minor wisdom tooth extraction, the message goes out on voicemail for prayers for healing. This is just too weird for me! Thanks for giving me a forum in which to express myself. Penny More thoughts: Not only was the dress code severe....there was absolutely NO profanity. Not even "pissed off" "damn" and other phrases. I want to sing the words to Dr. Dirty's "Eat Bite" song to all of the Ambots who tried to strip me of myself! But I'll just say they can put their system of success where the sun don't shine! I'm sure I'll be back with more tales of interest.
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