Interesting case of coincidental identity recognition coming up here. I am leaving his name and email handle in because it turns out to be relevant to the discussion.
Subject: Your Amway page... From: PegLegBoy Thu, 26 Feb 1998 Hi how you doing :) I just read your page and I think its damn funny..I'm serious, and i mean no disrespect. I'm an UofM student of business, also an active Amway distributor for two years, keeping an average of 8300pv now. I just wanted you to know that I don't get offended by people like you even if they sarcastically portray something that pays for my University expenses. I just wanted to point out that in order to have a valuable point of reference you should not be taking sides and specially when your information is of unknown origin. But I must say I love those stories of : I lost I billion dollars in Amway, they made me buy stuff till I had no more money to feed my children, and the favorite ever; my wife have left me because of Amway. Anyway, you are great I give this site two thumbs up! Kamil Ps. Go Diamond :) Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Fri, 27 Feb 1998 Hmmm... PegLegBoy sounds like a familiar nickname. Does "Diablo" mean anything to you? Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Fri, 27 Feb 1998 Yup it does mean, something :) I used to run a guild called INFERNO in the past, and my nickname was (is) PegLegBoy. You can find me in Ogden's Tavern and on POC board; what used to be INFERNO in Diablo and now rules UltimaOnline. By the way, you look like an intelligent man and I also noticed you want everyone else to think so too...so why would somebody like you sacrifice big portion of your web-page to write crap about Amway....are you one of these people that tried and failed and now tell the stories how they spend all the money on building Amway till they had no more food at home to feed their children :) In my opinion there is nothing wrong with Amway...hell it pays for my bills :) but there always seem to be a lot of people that think otherwise...but hey its a free country right :) PegLegBoy Ps. I read your page by mistake, I was browsing for some information about new business expansion in Russia and your page came up. You probably have to have a lot of mail from pissed of Amway distributors like me right? :) Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Wed, 04 Mar 1998 PegLegBoy, How remarkable that I should happen to meet you in this way! I think this is wonderful, really. I knew exactly who you were. I never had a run-in with Inferno myself, but when I was an active Diablo player I used to read their postings with a vague morbid interest. I know who Inferno is, but most of my readers probably don't play online games, so here is a brief explanation. Diablo and Ultima Online are two net-based multiplayer games. The majority of players who join such games do so to meet new friends and experience a variety of simulated worlds in a cooperative environment. You, Peg, were president of a small club or clique of people who took pleasure out of hunting and "killing" other players for sport, taking their gold, and humiliating them as much as possible. That's a fair description of your background, right? I would like to make two very interesting observations about your correspondence. One is that you are quite literally the first person, out of thousands of contributors to my letter pages, who ever voluntarily stated his own PV level. This makes you very unique in that you are not only moderately successful (and by "moderately" I mean, let's face it, a direct distributor still makes less money than I do in my first job) and that you can prove it. You are the first writer that I could confidently say this of. I think it a very great coincidence that the first writer to demonstrate this kind of success should happen to be YOU, someone I've encountered before in the past. Someone who, in his virtual online persona, enjoys building his wealth by literally stabbing other people in the back, stealing money from folks who obtained it by a variety of less blunt methods, and working to build up trust in people whose virtual characters you are about to crush and destroy. I think that's marvelous, because you are EXACTLY the type of person who I would have pegged as one of Amway's rare success stories. Of course I don't know you in real life. I'm sure you'd say you're the sweetest guy I've ever met once I get to know you. I'm sure your recruits all think so too. Anyway, I've never encountered you guys in UO either, but I do want to congratulate you on "ruling" that game and many others to come. I'll bet you rule your downline in a very similar fashion. Regards, Russell Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Fri, 6 Mar 1998 I like your definition of a PK below, there is only one minor problem with it..you don't distinguish between real life and online virtual one. Yes I have formed inferno to be a PK guild....we did in fact take pleasure in taking other people hard earned belongings so on and so on...but you missing the point. It is only a computer game which allows you to escape from reality. The world where you can be anything you want. That explains # of players posing as woman but being in fact man in real life {trust me I know something about it...took my share of psychology classes :) .} You say: "majority of players who join >such games do so to meet new friends and experience a variety of >simulated worlds in a cooperative environment." you have to notice here, that it is your opinion of: why people play games like Diablo or UO.... See that’s why games like above mentioned are called RPG's where you assume role of a given character; good or evil. That is also why option to kill other player is included in these games. Don't you think that if these games would be designed with one purpose only to be cooperative...UO designer would simply not include or remove the option to kill other player? By the way INFERNO is no longer in existence we broke off after I had no more time to spend endless hours organizing and sorting out our group's tasks, plans etc. Couple of new guilds were created, one of them would be POC or PODW in UO...both PK guilds. You pointed out the fact of me being moderately successful :) I think you missed the point...I didn't e-mail you with a purpose to brag about the amount of money I'm making.....so if you make more than me I'm happy for you :) Now as to ruling my downline :) by the way I love your expressions :) I don't know if you truly know how this business works...I just wanted to point out that I do not rule anyone here. I do help them set-up their own business and in order for me to make any money I have to actually help them to make money first...but oh well you wouldn't understand you probably think I'm a blood sucker waiting to for the next pray right? :) PegLegBoy Ps. Since you love quotes so much I will give you one :) "In life you don't get what you want!..You get what you are..." Ps2. Who are you?
PegLegBoy is right, I didn't make that delicate distinction between online video games and reality. In a game, there's no accountability and, as he pointed out, everyone is free to enact their hidden desires and fantasies without fear of repercussions.
I just found it quite interesting that a successful Amway distributor's deep secret desire is to kill imaginary people and loot their corpses, that's all. I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into that.
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 27 Feb 1998 Hello, my name is ***** -- I'm using a computer at the hospital I work at (under a nurse's e-mail). Anyway, I found particular interest in your "story" due to my recent experience, which I why I sought after websites regarding the truth about Amway. I am the Director of Marketing at a 78-Bed acute care/psychiatric facility and have some other good healthcare experience behind me. I have obtained 2 associate degrees and a bachelors in healthcare administration, with plans to eventually obtain my MHA. Not bad for a 25 year old. Anyway, I don't mean to "brag" -- just stating this in reference to your explanation that "intelligent" people have been known to get roped into this scheme. OK - let me begin. A friend of mine from college, ***** (a fraternity brother) called me about a month and a half ago to tell me that he has recently gotten involved in his uncle's (*****) business and that his uncle had representatives in my area (he's in my home state, Ohio, and I now live in Virginia). He would not tell me what the business was about but that they would have these people contact me. I said fine. >From that day, I didn't hear again from my friend. So, while responding to people who recently sent me mail (not e-mail), I decided to write George and asked what was going on with his uncle because I hadn't heard anything. Well, after I sent the letter and before he received it, I got a phone call from him. He said, "I wanted to make sure it was legit and that I was going to be making money off of it before getting you into it...and man, it works!!!" However, he wouldn't tell me what kind of income he was netting (avoided it) and still wouldn't tell me what "business" he was in. During that same conversation, he said that he and his uncle decided not to send reps, but would visit me themselves (from Cleveland, OH!!! -- that's about a 9 hour drive to Virginia one-way!!!). I asked, "Is it a pyramid scheme?" He said NO. "How much do I have to invest?" He said nothing (to invest). "What would I be selling?" He said nothing (to sell). Then I asked, "It's not that Amway crap is it?, because if it is, don't waste your time!" He said it wasn't. Givin' these responses, I admit I was curious. I was skeptical, but thought that since he was one of my best friends from college and since he was willing to travel so far, he wouldn't screw me over. So, we agreed to meet on a specific date when he and his uncle would visit. He asked that I get as many friends as I could to attend too. Going back to my question to him "It's not Amway is it?" -- because I had people visit me before at college to present this stuff, which at that time I thought they were foolish to drive 2 hrs. one-way to try to "sell me" on that. So, I communicated this to my friends and told them to invite their friends -- and reserved a spacious area at a local restaurant. I told each friend about my conversations with my college buddy and how he told me that it was none of those things. So, come that night (2/23/98), there were a total of 7 of us -- thank goodness others were unable to attend -- and eventually ***** and his uncle stroll in to the Virginian restaurant decked out in suits (we were all very casual). As we ate our dinner, the uncle goes into his spiel. Being a hospital marketing director -- I have numerous encounters with salespeople, and quickly picked up to his "sales pitch" before the blow occurred. He talks to the attendees about such things as "If money didn't matter, what kind of car would you want" and to the ladies, "the dream home bit" with all the mouth-watering additives that nobody would say no to. Then he goes into the "reality check" -- explaining how today we cannot have these "dreams" even with 2 incomes, etc. And went into how we could... So, he goes on and on, and then delivers "How many of you are familiar with the ----- corporation?" I thought he said "Armcore" or something like that. A girl I invited said, "Yeah, that's one of those pyramid schemes." He said no, those are illegal. As those two discussed, I was still trying to find out what corp. name he had said -- since I didn't hear it clearly. Then, overheard the girl say "Amway". I turned to my friend from Ohio (his uncle was doing all the talking) and asked, "Did he say Amway?" He said, "Yeah, yeah" and gestured for me to keep my attention on his uncle. I was pissed. Rather than confront the uncle by saying that ***** here said it had nothing to do with this, that, and the other. I just sat there then threw some questions regarding investment, pyramid effect, etc. -- with a hint of negativism in my voice. Remember, I had already informed my friends that I was told it was not Amway. I am a Christian, and nearly exited healthcare to attend a school of preaching in Memphis. From my initial phone conversations with my friend, he kept stating how it is a Christian organization, etc. It turns out the uncle is a Baptist preacher and was trying to educate me on the ministry they do at Amway meetings, etc. I study my Bible a good bit and had a hard time buying this plug. Besides, my college friend deceived me (that's not so Christian-like) and the Uncle seemed so money hungry and tried to stir everyone to hunger for this too (The Bible says "You cannot worship both God and Mammon" & "Money is the root of all evil.") Anyway, they did their thing and left back toward Ohio (left OH at 9 am, arrived VA at 6:30 pm, gave presentation, left back to Ohio at 9 pm) That's nuts. After I got home, I called some of my friends to apologize for wasting their time. ***** told me (early on) -- "the friends you invite will be thanking you for inviting them." Yeah, right. I'm not going to get into this stuff -- but thought you'd enjoy this story. Seems an act of desperation (18 hr. round trip!) to get people underneath them. Crazy. My idiot friend says to everyone there, "I can't wait to go to my class reunion in 5 years and when they ask me what I've been doing, I can say I'm retired." Please...more like "retarded." I plan to make him copies of your "story" and beat some sense into him. He says he has dreams, I think he's just lazy, looking for a quick fix. He once remarked, "I'd rather be doing this than to win the lottery." Is he far gone or what! Rather, there's nothing wrong with using your mind and earning an honest income. Russ, I thank you for sharing your experiences and educating others. Good luck to you and may you prosper (w/o Amway).
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 27 Feb 1998 HI, Love your page man. Funny as hell. I never got as far as you did with Amway. But I also have a story to tell. A "friendly" Indian guy I met at the San Jose Fry's got into a conversation. He managed to get my business card (nothing wrong with that), and proceeded to email me about this part-time "marketing firm" he's running. He said we can talk about it over coffee or something. As I am a busy engineer with enough friends already I didn't take him up on the offer. A month later he called me to invite me to a meeting with his "business associates". "Please dress formally", he said. This time, I relented. A few things first before I go on. Before meeting this buy I have never heard of Amway. And I have a extreme dislike of formal dress codes. I wear T-shirt and jeans at work, even to job interviews. Naturally, I'm curious as to why I need to dress so formally. So I show up at the appointed time. Everybody there is dressed impeccably, and the place stinks to high heaven with cologne and perfume. I start feeling these are not the type of people I want to hang out with, having graduated from UC Berkeley (hippie capital of the world) and all. As the meeting started, the guy walks up and starts telling how thankful we should be of the person who invited us, that this is a great opportunity they're sharing with us, yada yada yada. Another guy came up and starts drawing circles and lines, and talking vaguely about earning lots of money while doing very bad math. Fifteen agonizing minutes passed before I gathered enough information to realize that the whole thing is a pyramid scheme. The remaining 45 minutes was pure hell as I writhed in my seat waiting for the earliest opportunity to escape. But at least I extracted one valuable word from him: Amway. The guy caught up with me after the meeting and asked me if I'm interested, he can send me some literature. I basically told him I'm not interested and that ended, or so I thought. One of my friends tried to pull the same thing on me. I haven't seen him in a while, and he said he now has a part-time job near where I work. Naturally I'm curious as to why he starts work at 8:00pm. I should have suspected something when he asked me to dress formally. But I did as he asked and went to meet him. Sure enough, it's another Amway group. The telltale signs are everywhere: 1) seminar setting. 2) formal dress code. 3) people paying 10 bucks to get in. 4) "marketing", "associates" in their organization name. 5) friendly, helpful people kept asking me to sign my name and stuff, etc. I told them I'm looking for a friend, and if I can't find him I'm taking off. When they saw how determined I was at leaving, the "charm mode" turns off and I was able to leave peacefully. Problem is, I later emailed my friend telling him that Amway is bad news, and that I refuse to get involved in it. I never heard from him again. He still has some of my stuff, and I want them back!!! (groan) This is another example of how Amway destroys friendships.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 28 Feb 1998 I'm currently in cahoots with some psychos from Amway. It's like 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers' when you attend a meeting. I know exactly what you mean when you mention people devoid of human emotion, bent on greed. And all of those false dreams and BS! I can't even begin to say how much I HATE this crap!!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Fri, 27 Feb 1998 It sounds like you got too focussed and missed the point. It happens in any business. Take a broader look but focus once in a while to perceive clearly. Be objective.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 28 Feb 1998 Hi, I loved your story! I was wondering if you knew the different levels of Amway (ie. Silver, Emerald, which are direct, etc) or knew where to get that info, I am designing an AD&D module where amway is the villain and the power levels are measured by the distributor levels. Hope to hear from you soon, thanks!
Subject: My girlfriend is in an AMO and it might mean the end of us.. HELP ! Sun, 1 Mar 1998 Hello, I have been seeing my girlfriend for about 6 months now and we are starting to get extremely serious to the point which we are considering spending the rest of our lives together. Our relationship in short is textbook perfect from communication, to not playing games, to expression, to attraction, etc... minus one detail... She is a member of "World Wide Dream Builders" (an AMO) and doesn't realize the pit she's getting herself into... I have done extensive research on AMOs and have found your site to be the most objective while still conveying the facts. I am totally against the AMOs and their way of manipulating people, and it just kills me to see such a smart girl be brainwashed into this kind of life... I need to try to convince her that it is wrong, but any research I do is immediately categorized as "that stuff everyone reads on the internet that my sponsor warned us about..." I just don't know what to do to get through to her... to break the spell she's under... If I don't succeed, she will be my greatest loss, as I cannot live with her and love her if she continues on this path... Can you offer anything that will help?...possibly to save a perfect relationship from death and destruction? Thank you so much for your time... Sincerely,
Subject: You Saved My Bacon Sun, 1 Mar 1998 I was on the verge of signing up with Amway. I am also new on the Internet so my research has been a little slow. I decided to check and couldn't believe the information I found. In evaluating the truth, I can only say that all things mentioned by you did not come as a surprise. I have been living it over the last month. So I know who is lying. What is really scary is the technique used right down to the pauses. I am shocked. Now, I get to turn these people off. Wish me luck.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 1 Mar 1998 Hi Russell, I have enjoyed your pages for a while and feel there should be an Australian link. So here is my very basic page...hope to hear from other Aussies. (Please don't mention my email or name...you just never know!!!!} http://members.tripod.com/~dreamsteal/index.html Hi (and G'day) I'm a former Amway distributor from earlier this decade. Recently I found some fascinating web pages about the motivational organisations that supply tapes to Amway groups and how the high pin levels make money from tapes and functions. I looked for information on the Australian motivational organisations but could not find it. So I thought I'd tell my story - and maybe others can email me. It all started when a parent at the local primary school wanted to show me a business opportunity. I was skeptical when the whiteboard came out and circles were drawn but did think I could market some products through my work (in a big firm) and especially liked the tax break idea for cleaning product samples etc...which turned out to be not strictly true. Anyway, I signed up and was in. I read through the manual and was worried about the 10 customer requirement, but was told not to worry about it. My sponsor and the upline people I met at my first meeting said it was more important to sponsor. I bought some tapes and books on multi-level marketing and left them with friends who were not interested, and my sponsor showed the plan to a friend who was not interested, having lived in a house with an Amway distributor. I bought loads more cleaning products than I would normally - i needed a clean house for when the directs dropped by. And I went to weekly meetings - more of that in the next section. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ the system creeps in... Weekly meetings were in a large room with uncomfortable chairs in an office in an industrial area half an hour's drive away. The Diamonds did a lot of talking - I remember a suggestion to set up a Queen cookware club with six people so everyone got a piece each week.The wonders of water filtration and vacuum cleaning were explained and there was lots of circle drawing. Tapes were recommended - but I did not realise at first that they were not Amway tapes and when I ordered one about Singles in Amway through the catalogue my sponsor said I should be getting one of the other tapes. They were IBS tapes and were all basically success stories, with advice about following uplines and the system. This was System 2000 and you were meant to SUE (sell, use and eat) 200PV a month. I remember being excited when I made 3 per cent...mostly through my own purchases. I bought sheets and socks through the catalogue though I could have got them cheaper at sales. I started thinking of everyone as a potential prospect, as the system advised. But I found that got in the way of normal social interaction. I was also associating more with Amway people - we had a Christmas BBQ where kids were present (contrasting with the kid-free policies for everything else) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ reality sets in After a few months I realised that I was not going to sell heaps of product to fellow workers. I recall an Amagram which celebrated a woman who had achieved 9pc on sales alone...it struck me that few would do that for her to be written up. Nor were people joining me, except for a relative who soon decided she got better value in store specials. But my upline seemed excited and happy..I was a winner..and I went to functions. These involved interstate Diamonds crowing about their overseas trips and purchases (not catalogue purchases). I had to arrange babysitting and my expenses were mounting to hundreds of dollars. Then a friend lent me the book Amway - The Cult of Free Enterprise. It was an eye opener and reflected the pattern of what I had been exposed to. My dream was still there but fading. Finally I decided not to renew. I would be interested to hear others' stories now I know more about how the tape and function profits work. That's basically the page. Hope you can post it...it's called dreamsteal's Australian Amway loser page!!!
Subject: YourAmwaypage... Sun, 1 Mar 1998 I was a former distributor that moved to TX to PA and lost contact with my upline. When this happened my head cleared right up and I saw Amway differently. Don't get me wrong, I did get my debts cleared up and my personal life in order but everyone should sit down and do the math if they think AMWAY is going to make you $$$$$. My advice, success princples work, use them in whatever you do for a living and you can improve as much as you want to. My reason for this E-mail. I saw on a web site, Sid's I think, a new lawsuit out of TX. Morrison vs Amway. It like Brig Hart's suit but this one happens to be my old upline. It dropped off the site and I can't find it again. Have you seen it lately or did Amway pull some of it tricks again. I had a similar problem when they highjacked the search engines. Can you help? Thought for the day: Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, others just gargle, which are you? Subject: Re: YourAmwaypage... Tue, 10 Mar 1998 When Sidney Schwartz shut down his web site due to legal harrassment, several people including me started up mirror sites. Mine is at http://www.willynet.com/rglasser/amway/schwartz and you can find the lawsuits there. Subject: Re: YourAmwaypage... Wed, 11 Mar 1998 I found all of those other lawsuits before. The Morrison suits just appeared for a brief time and I can't find it on an of the mirrored sires now. It wasset up just like the Hart suit. If you run across it or can give me diections to where it's at now that would help me. Thanks again. Thought for the day: No matter how fast fish swim, they never sweat.
Subject: Amway page Sun, 1 Mar 1998 Hello! It's sad that some people have such negative experiences with Amway. I'm not a diamond or anything, but it have really changed my life for the better. Personally. Financially. Emotionally. I'm not as conservative as the organization I belong to, but I can still find a place. A place of optimistic, upwardly mobile people. Some of my upline and crossline have had simply awesome success in the last few years. It was awesome seeing some young mothers able to quit their jobs and raise their kids themselves instead of "selling them off" to the lowest bidder (daycare). It's awesome seeing my upline lawyer sponsor (two generations above) able to quit a high-paying (high stress) job after 5 years. And people have noticed a difference in me. A positive difference. The business program isn't for everyone. And again, I feel sorry for people who have bad experiences. But then again, no matter what you do, you might have bad experiences. Just means Amway wasn't for you. I hope your page doesn't negatively affect someone who just might have become very successful if they got a better understanding of Amway REALLY is, instead of analyzing it like you did. If you analyze the Bible that way, it doesn't make sense either. Hope you have found something that DOES satisfy your life. As for me, I'll build the Amway business. Build my life. Build my OWN success without a boss. I just felt like saying your opinion of Amway is your opinion. But there are many many others who the business is right for. And it does so much good for those of us who understand what's underneath a high vitamin price or a $6 tape of the week. Have a good life, and be happy. Don't dwell on the bad. This message isn't meant to insult. Just a comment.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Sun, 01 Mar 1998 I would like to thank you for printing your story on the computer. I work with a woman and her husband has just started with "the busines". Thank goodness my husband is a "computer genius" ( as I call him) so he decided to check the internet and found your story among others. We are very greatful for you taking the time to print your story. While I was skeptical and told him "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is", I would have agreed with him if he wanted to try it. Also, it sounded so good, we were thinking of having this "suit" contact our children who are in college. Again, thank you very much!!!!!!
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 01 Mar 1998 Russell, you are a breath of fresh air. I have been approached by three people over the course of three years to join Amway. When I told one that this must be Amway she pulled the tape from my hand and said one day she will leave the hospital(she is a nurse) in a limo. That was two years ago and I have'nt heard or seen her since. My other friend(and still is) was pressured to go to a Amway convention in Ontario Canada with his potential upline. Being the modest guy he was, he said the convention was an educational expierence. His girlfriend said otherwise and said the only saving Grace was that she was able to see Ontario. He then related that he went to a local convention and was asked by his recruiter if he would like to go to the airport and see the diamond distributor leave in his private lear jet. He went, along with a couple hundred people, and as the jet was taxiing away, he could hear people say "Someday,I am going to be doing that." It was rather frightening to him and since that incident he has backed off from being swept up in the Amway propaganda. No doubt that in the future, I will be approached again and will tell them that I have read your website
Subject: Thanks to your 'treatment'of Amway... Mon, 2 Mar 1998 Hi!! Thanks for your comprehensive work on Amway.I am a very young doctor, an ENT Surgeon just at the start of my carreer and was very, very skeptical when I got invited to one of those famed gatherings of all very nice people!! But, to be honest I was willing to listen with an open mind and do my own research on the subject... quite unlike my extremely logical husband, an Eye surgeon, who did not attend the meeting due to other personal engagements but immediately started dissecting and demolishing the mathematical impossibility of Amway. I, too, am extremely fond of my work ; I, too, want to be famous and rich ; BUT I DONOT LIKE THE IDEA OF GTTING RICH THE AMWAY WAY. Incidently, do you know that these promotions in India are saying that this is THE AMERICAN WAY , please forgive me for saying it!
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 03 Mar 1998 Dear Russell, Thank god I decided to do a little research before wednesday.(today is monday) I had made up my mind to join at a meeting in just two days,and I just today recruited a friend to go with me to show him this incredible business and the robotic people involved. As I read your page's, I felt as if you had changed the names of the people that have been showing me the business to Ted and Phil. I just wanted you to know that you have saved me from falling prey to this scam and I appreciate it.
Subject: Stand up and don't this crap from Scamway!!!! My suggestions in order to tell the truth Tue, 03 Mar 1998 Dear Sir: I was exactly in your position except that they wanted a web designer instead of a computer programmer. I also sent this message to the AUS site. >Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 00:17:26 -0600 >To: schwartz@teleport.com >From: ***** >Subject: Stand up and don't this crap from Scamway!!!! My suggestions in order to tell the truth > >This is the first time I have been to your site. I sounds like you have given up. Well, I just got LIED to by an acquaintence of mine deceiving me that I was going to a place where they wanted some computer work done. Silly me. and you know the rest of the story. > >My suggestions to you. > >1. Goto to the lawyers that are suing the tobacco companies. If they can take on the tobacco companies, they can take on Amway. Goto the attorney generals and see what they have to say. > >2. Goto the press and the media. They don't like the Christian Coalition and this is one of the reasons why. It would be better for the entire country if this scam is exposed, conservatives and liberals. > >3. Try to make a movie out of it. Goto Hollywood. After they went after the GOP they would love to get back at Amway. Look at the magazines, they exposed Scientology for what it is. > >4. You already have thought of the the book deal. > >4.1 Take an ad out in some paper explaining your situation and that you need financial support to fight Amway. You haven't said anything bad against Amway in the Ad, you just need someone to help you financially or a law team. All you need to do is think of some legal basis they can sue and win. Sort of like Airline Ticket price fixing. Remember, if there is a pot of gold at the end, the lawyers will at your door ASAP, just find a way for them to get some money for their time and effort. > >4.2 Setup a Legal Defense Fund in order to fight Amway. There are a lot of free services by University Law Clinics. > > >5. Develop a web ring exposing the Amway site. Get other Web Sites to help you out. Goto to the guys that try to stop spam and telemarketers. It's called LinkExchange, http://www.linkexchange.com and it's free. something like Amway = Scamway should be on your banner > >6. Goto the college and University President or the Student Body Presidents or the Business School Student Presidents. Goto the college magazines and any campus magazines. Send them e-mail warning that their students are being taken. Goto the high schools and tell then what to beware of before they get to college. That will really get to them. > >Also, every time you hear a price drop in computers will mean a lot more consumers will buy a computer and find the Internet and your web page. > > > >p.s. I hope these suggestions help.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 3 Mar 1998 Thanks for all the info I injoyed reading it. I have been sucked into Amway parties myself, and I asked the Jerks if it had anything to do with Amway before I went. Answer WHAT'S AMWAY. Needles to say I left in 5 minutes.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 03 Mar 1998 I read your story with a smile on my face as it made me think back to my own Amway times. I actually signed up for this thing and spent two years wasting time and plenty of money at it. I do feel angery at my self for being so dumb but more so for feeling as if I had to buy all those books, tapes, teaching aids, events tickets,etc,etc. Still, I have put it down to expeience and moved on. One thing I always notice about active distibutors comments is that they are always attacking the person who has "quit". Ex-distibutors just calmly tell their story, but active distibutors are spiteful and angery , is this becouse they would love to stop wasting there time also but are too far gone now? makes you think, dose'nt it?
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Tue, 03 Mar 1998 Hi Russell! All these years I thought I was hallucinating, but your site and Sidney's validate what I've felt all along. I was introduced to Amway about 13 years ago, by a couple I looked up to and who thought of me as a friend (they were my martial arts instructors). I was in financial trouble and got the usual pitch; i.e., "exciting business opportunity" and the like. Mostly to placate them because they were so gung-ho, I went to a couple of those big meetings. I was shocked! Speaker after speaker (invariably white males) spouted completely unreal positive thinking mixed with right wing rhetoric of the worst kind, and the two tapes my friends prevailed upon me to hear were more of the same. The really striking thing was that the phrases used were pseudo-religious: "we're the ONLY WAY," "we'll never forsake you," and other stuff that I'd only heard in church before I quit going. Right then I smelled SPAM. My then-girlfriend, a fundamentalist Christian, starteed to pressure me and almost joined Amway herself, though single women are frowned upon by "the Business." I don't know how any self-respecting woman could submit to Amway's male-centered, controlling bullshit. But then self-respect isn't on their agenda for women. The sad part is that this couple, who had until now been very intelligent and gracious people, became total zombies. They had little time for the martial arts and cultural pursuits we had enjoyed together. Finally, as our friendship deteriorated, they made it not-so-subtly clear to me that they didn't want to teach me any more aikido until I was assimilated into Amway. I took the hint. They don't teach anymore; I don't know what became of them.The scary thing is, no one seems to perceive this threat to freedom. With their political power and roots in the religious right, Scamway is marching us down the road to censorship and life control. Their goal--and that of the media--seems to be to instill fear of literally everything. Fear of poverty, the poor, El Nino, crime, your neighbor's cat ("When Animals Attack" with some hellacious hairballs :) All this fear will make a positive-thinking police state seem like an "exciting opportunity" to exist without that nasty thing called life. Keep your site up as long as there's an Internet!
Subject: Amway Tue, 3 Mar 1998 Yep someone else that has failed in Amway. I wonder if the head honchos at Amway sit there and think, "let's manipulate and control the world" or maybe their saying, "what's the ultimate system for getting rich" or maybe their saying, "how can we guarantee a way for a person to take control of their own destiny" I am very happy for you that you have gone through your emotions and decided to make them public. You are very brave. I do believe that Amway distributors are getting brainwashed but and so are may religious people and so are many televisions watchers, little league players and the list goes on. People know how to manipulate other people to get things done. It's been that way for a while I feared that once I got into Amway all my other interests would fade away. So I promised myself they I would not loose sight of my, hobbies and interests. I know for a fact that our minds need to be cleansed and after listening to hundreds of hours of tape, and attending seminars and I must admit my mind has been thoroughly washed. So now my only thought is making my dreams come true for me and my family and anyone else I can bring with. My dream were never to be an Amway Distributor, they were to be a musician, a traveler, and a productive family member. I used to beat my child. I used to do drugs, and cheat on my wife. I listened to these tapes over and over in hopes to become better. And of course like they all say everything has gotten better. I haven't hit my child in years, I work out at the gym, my wife has become so beautiful to me and I am totally faithful. So yea the tapes and the being around winners (even thought their highly trained in manipulation) has fixed the bill. I am successfully saving $ for music equipment and getting to travel some. My family is very happy and my kids grades keep going up. Okay so now I end up telling all my friends that I'm in Amway and it's change my life and they tell me it's lame. A few of my excellent friends give me mild support. Now that I'm watching way less news I have that typical happy Amway smirk on my face and every one I meet is amazing, to me. So If your a pro football player or a minister or a TV star you have become a fanatic about that subject is that okay? The odds are, your gonna fail at becoming a top level anything, so it doesn't surprise me that large % of the people that get into Amway fail. So do a large amount of diets, how many musicians are out there compared to stars? How many kids want to be a pro athletes and spend every giving thought, $ and time in the pursuit?, I bet the coaches of the college players manipulate their players no differently than any other personally trying to get someone to do something grand. It's all relative. No one wants to have anyone come to their house and be sold, but yet they get sold everyday by TV. It's amazing It's funny when I told some of my friends I'd be a rock star, they said, ya your just gonna loose a bunch of money in that and get manipulated by managers and we've tried it and failed, When I told other people I was gonna be a baseball star they said not to get caught up in that whole thing. The I tried comedy and they said get a real job, so I became a preacher and others said I was a brainwasher It's always the losers that tell me that I cant do it and that it's bad to be in that thing. It's always the winners of a particular thing that tell me I can do it! So who should I follow? My self obviously! We'll I like the books, the tape and like the seminars, even though they are preachy. I like church and singing in church, even though it seems impossible that there is a god. I like to play guitar and doing comedy even though I'm uncomfortable playing in front of people and its not a "real job" So I decided to get rich and to brainwash everyone into following their dreams what ever they are and that there is a workable system out there, ones amway, another is religion, but stay away from TV and losers opinions. Many businesses can appears sometimes to be cut throat, When my buddies at work start doing better than me at work I get replaced and it makes me sad but when my buddies in amway pass me up I know I'm benefiting and it makes us both happy Your absolutely correct with everything you say! but since mind manipulation is so powerful and works so well I choose for you to read positive books and listen to positive tapes and listen to positive people. I don't want to hurt you, I just want you to have all that you deserve and desire, cause you only live a life. I have a good outside perspective of whats going on in this Amway biz and other businesses. I am a fanatic and it's fun To ask you to join my amway organization would make you flip out I bet, but in a fairness I think you got in with the wrong people. I will personally invest in you cause you are a winner, you just see the good thetas in everything. I see a mad, hurt person that got frustrated and quit and wants everyone to see that it's bad. It's only as bad as the individuals make it. Same as all other businesses Call me brave, but I looked at Amway 10 years ago and have invested 10 years into the workings of the human psyche before becoming a Amway member. I have a feeling that me and you have a lot in common, If I'm wrong please forgive me. You can tell me to go to hell and I'd still be your friend. I need people like you in my group to make it what it was meant to be ( a good thing ) If we were to use your insight and my knowledge we can change huge amounts of people lives to the better. This in my opinion is as good as way as anything.. Let's see how stupid I am by asking you and how brave you are by accepting Have an excellent Life Subject: Re: Amway Wed, 04 Mar 1998 > You can tell me to go to hell and I'd still be your friend. > Thanks, friend. :)
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 3 Mar 1998 I agree that many people have looked at your page, but I really think you need to get a lot more facts, and check out the people who have "made it " in this business, and not only by people who couldn't make it. I don't care what business you are involved in, you will always find people who blame their failures on someone else. Too many people expect the get rich quick scheme, but will not take the initiative to actually get out and do the work.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 3 Mar 1998 Thank you very much for your extremely interesting story. Three Am-i a looooser-way people just left my house. Yes the detergent and tapes are sitting on my table and even if I didn't belive a word you wrote I would still return them in an effort to "pay" you for your writing talents. In my personal opinion the only thing you should be doing on a computer is writing another story. Hey just maybe you could do something for the American people and their dreams....BRING BACK SPACE INVADERS!!!!! Thank you so much for cutting thru the crap and saving me time and money when I already know where the local stores are to buy things I'll need anyway. I will also have this web site "browse-able" when they come for their follow up next Tuesday. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Wed, 4 Mar 1998 Dear Mr Glasser, You have stated over and over that you print letters in all fairness, and allow both points of view to be given. In this light, I think it would be only fair if you give readers the option to see a different perspective on the subject of Amway. I happened on this following site by accident. Please publish this address in fairness. http://www.ezonline.com/eagle01/index.html Best wishes in all of your future dreams. If computer programming is your dream, more power to you. Take Care, Cynthia PS~ Readers may reply to my letter directly if they wish, at MoveMount@AOL.com Subject: Re: My reply to your Amway page Tue, 10 Mar 1998 That's already a link from my web site, Cynthia.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 04 Mar 1998 Russell, Wow! You see, I have a friend whose mother is involved in Amway, now he is getting into it and he was telling me all about it tonight. Like your father, I suggested that he search the internet for information on Amway. He told me that nothing on the web would convince him that Amway wasn't worth him trying it out. So, I did the research, and I found your very informational page. This is a thank you for not letting me get "sucked" in by one of my closest and dearest friends. Now if only I can reach him and him in return reach his mother. Thanks once again
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 03 Mar 1998 Dear Russell, thank you very much for your report. I´m just searching the internet for information about amway, because some relatives of a friend of mine have joined amway and are now starting to get on our nerves with their "how-to-become-a-millionaire-tall-story". They´re german immigrants from Russia. Here in Germany, these people seem to be the favourite victims of amway and all this stuff. Thanks
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 04 Mar 1998 I just read your story. And I have to admit that if I'd read it two weeks ago I would have said it was a joke. But a little over two weeks ago I stopped by a house that was selling beanie babies (my wife and I have been collectors for a while). I spoke with the lady selling and I sold her some the next day. When I was selling her mine she introduced me to her husband who was nice enough. Two days later he called and started his pitch. It was exactly as you told. Unfortunately for me, these people have been in the business for a while and are making over 100,000 a year. I must admit that he definitely planted that seed of doubt in my head. He came over to talk to me and invited me to a meeting. At the very end of the meeting was the first time I'd heard Amway. My wife and I were both there and after the meeting ***** and ***** asked us over to look over "the plan" with them. Fortunately, I went straight home and looked up all the Amway information on the internet that I could find, including your site. When ***** had first come over I mentioned that my wife and I were beginning to look for a house to buy. And since we have only been out of college for a year, we couldn't afford too much. That was his cue, when we went over to there house on Friday, he had a book with pictures of some of the houses that the diamonds had purchased. It was placed on the table as we arrived and he mentioned that he had just been looking at them before we showed up. So they started talking, we started telling them our doubts, and they had a comeback for every doubt we said. I told them that I had done some research on the internet and before I could continue they were already slamming everything about the internet and all the negative things I had read. Fortunately for me my wife was there, she was able to keep a clear head and get us out of there before we signed up. She had me call them yesterday to say we weren't interested. I have to admit that if it wasn't for her I probably would have joined. I kept saying to myself, "What could it hurt?". I thought I was smart enough and level headed enough to get past that. Although we aren't rich, we certainly make enough money to not have to be swayed with "You could be rich" schemes. You've definitely got to give them credit. At the meeting I was at, most of the people seemed to be uneducated. They didn't have a chance. Sorry to go on, I justed wanted to thank you for posting your site. Hopefully more people will benifit from it as much as I did. Keep up the good work.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 04 Mar 1998 My husband just called me in to the comuter to read your story, because we just had a brush with Amway (though not as extensive as yours--we got on the internet early on and were saved the agony). But there's another aspect of Amway that you didn't touch on--probably being male you didn't experience it. One of their biggest selling points is the "freedom" to quit your job--that's obviouse from the start. But what really stood out to me was the speaker's (male) biggest sales pitch to fellow males--your wife can quit her job and stay home with the kids. Like you, I was reminded of strange religious cults. It gave me a strange feeling to know that people could get caught up in this and not even know that it's simply not normal. Anyway, just wanted to give you a slightly different perspective. Thanks,
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 04 Mar 1998 Love it!!! But it doesn't explain the $100,000+ I am making in Amway. How do you explain this? I've gone to one large function and have purchased 22 tapes and have spent $426 on gas which are all tax dectable. I spent $3752 on gas as a insurance rep in Oklahoma. I'm sorry you're expirence was negative! Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Wed, 11 Mar 1998 > But it doesn't explain the $100,000+ I am making in Amway. How do you > explain this? Oh? That's interesting. Over what period of time have you made this? How long have you been a distributor? What's your pin level?
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 4 Mar 1998 Thank you for giving me the scoop on what is realy behind that stetford smile.I have a meeting to night with some one in my up line.All my answers will be no thanks. thanks for saving me my friends.
Subject: you go! Wed, 04 Mar 1998 heeahh....heh, heh, heh, heh, heh, heh...said about as much as you did and even laughed about it...best of luck working about 90,000+++ hours for someone else...remembering each week to drive to the store to pay full price for that tube of crest, stand in line and get caught behind the person needing a price check, drive home after the long time spent at the store to find your kids and spouse have gone to bed because you didn't have the time to spend with them... from one of the one's whose made it and is helping the company with their philanthropy projects...be sure to indicate in your letter about the contributions to easter seals, the republican party, and the environment...also be sure to update yourself with the new practices going on with some of the lines as " times are a changin'" and many of the items you have listed concerning the business have been changed... anyhow...thanks for the great read...consider sending letter to the nbc network for proposal to write last seinfeld pilot as you have got what it takes for comedy...yeah baby...you go!
Subject: Hello from Tasmania! Thu, 05 Mar 1998 Thank you, Russell - you've probably saved us from a fate worse than ......... half an hour ago we had a phone call from friends re a certain tape they would like to drop into our letterbox tonight - well, we hope they'll still be friends when they hear our loud "NO THANKS". Still, I'm glad they phoned, or I would not have "discovered" your very nice website. And I look forward to visiting you again at an earlier hour. Apart from anything else, it's great to read something that's not full of spelling errors - the WWW seems to be populated with people who can't spell. (Hope I haven't made any mistakes in this message!) Love your page of quotations, and your cat. Thanks again!
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 5 Mar 1998 Hey, I havn't looked much at your sight, YET! I just had a family member talk me into looking into the "Business Opportunity." Actually they talked to us about "saving money" through the HSD program. It sounded great, until I started flipping through a catalog and noticing that I would pay more than twice the retail price on many items that I was already buying, by getting the wholesale through Amway. I then brought up the point to the nice gentelman, who was trying to tell me that it was just one or two products. It is too bad, that I might have been able to save money on one or two products, instead of all 12000 or what ever it is now that they brag about having. I hope that I enjoy the rest of the sight as much as I have the part I have seen so far.
Subject: Amway Internet Site Thu, 05 Mar 1998 Just wanted to know... are you married? do you have a job? have you ever run your own business? do you have personal income in excess of $50,000.00 ***** Direct Distributor Subject: Re: Amway Internet Site Fri, 13 Mar 1998 Patrick Lawrence wrote: > > Just wanted to know... > > are you married? > Girlfriend moving in with me next month. > do you have a job? > Yep. > have you ever run your own business? > Not yet. > do you have personal income in excess of $50,000.00 > Yep, barely. But I'm still only six months into my first post-school job. Now I assume you're going to tell me your answers.
Fri, 6 Mar 1998 I guess people like you are in the minority, we are all frightened by what we cannot achieve, thing is most of us dont go around slagging the things we could not master,we either leave them alone, or consider it a challenge and get on with it. You my friend will NEVER be successfull, not even in writing WEB pages, yours is very average...GIVE up go and join the 'orange people' or some other weird religious group, you would fit in very well.. your site is a waste of cyber space.... Never again.....those that can DO, those that cant criticise !! think about that.
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 06 Mar 1998 Thanks for mirroring Sidney Schwartz's page. It's great to see those 'fighting the good fight' reach out and support one another. I found out last night that a close friend was dragged by another friend to a big Amway meeting. Now ***** is not about to be sucked in, but his friend *** has taken the bait hook, line and sinker. *** has in the last year become ultra-Christianized. He is definately seeking 'something'. ***'s need to belong and to succeed has outweighed his common sense, surprising for such a street-wise kid. He keeps talking about how he would like to buy things for his mom. It's really sad. I know he won't listen to reason, though. He's going to be one of those who finds out the hard way. *** wants me to go with them to next Wednesday's meeting. Should I smuggle in a video camera, or just sit there quietly wearing a "Hurray for Sidney Schwartz" t-shirt! :) If it weren't for the fact that I know someone who is about to go down that destructive road, the whole MLM thing would be really interesting from an academic point of view. Mind control is a fascinating subject. Thanks for providing good information. Say hello to Sidney for me! Greetings from Ontario Subject: Regarding the rest of your website Fri, 06 Mar 1998 Hello again! I just sent you e-mail regarding your Amway page. I decided to follow the link back to your personal page and I thought I'd drop you another line. Fabulous quotes! You must be a closet Canuck-phile given your high regard for the ruminations of Rick Moranis and Rush! :) Anyway, cute site. Makes you seem like an interesting person (unlike most personal web sites which are, like, boring to the max). Hope things go well for you
Okay, okay, that didn't actually have anything to do with Amway, but I had to include it anyway just to give the ol' ego a stroke.
Subject: Amway story Fri, 6 Mar 1998 Russell, I began to read your story and found that from the beginning you were either misinformed or not a good listener. "When you recruit a friend, and the friend pays his fees and buys his products, you begin receiving additional bonuses for products that the FRIEND buys, tacked on to your own as a reward for expanding the blob-like Amway corporation. And when your friend recruits his friends, you get a profit on them also. Thus, if your own bonus is $100 per month, and you recruit ten friends who recruit ten friends, and each of them causes you to receive an additional $100 per month also, they could theoretically net you more than 10,000 dollars every month! Astounding, isn't it?" You simply are passing along a false story with this information. This is not how the bonus plan works in Amway. I am an Amway Independent Distributor who has slowly stepped into the business (9 months now) and have been meticulous in gathering information on how the business works. Each person in Amway determines their own destiny on how well they will do in the business depending on the time and effort they put into their business. I have met many of people (real people) that are financially independent because they have put the time and effort into their business. You must look into everything with an open mind. While some of the statements you make may be true I find most of them to be misconstrued in a negative fashion. Subject: Re: Amway story Tue, 10 Mar 1998 > You simply are passing along a false story with this information. > This is not how the bonus plan works in Amway. O Enlighted Sir, kindly tell me the truth of how the bonus plan works in Amway, that I may mend my most grievous errors and spread only true information on my venerable web page. I would be most grateful to you if you would elaborate rather than just write "You're a liar" and not fill in the rest of the story for my readers.
No answer to this one...
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 06 Mar 1998 Hi, Congratualations on your site. I can't say i enjoyed reading your pages, but i admire the fact that you have space for 'pro-Amway' sites. As you might have guessed by now, i am a distributer. I have a solid business. So thanks again for giving people a honest comparison. - Friso Please visit my sites, http://come.to/your.success NEW! http://surf.to/thewave http://www.caiw.nl/~awmeijer Success isn't something you chase. It's something you have to put forth the effort for constantly. Then maybe it'll come when you least expect it. Most people don't understand that. Michael Jordan
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 6 Mar 1998 We've always got exactly what we expected, haven't been disappointed, and can't really afford to drop out. Incidentally. we only have four customers, who we can't really be all that bothered with! Sorry not to be so negative!
Fri, 6 Mar 1998 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You are incredibly insightful, fantastically thorough, and awesomely professional. Thank you for all the work you've done to put this web site together. This is truly a service to humanity. I'm struggling through my marriage to a second-round Ambot. Your site was just what I needed, NOT to convince him--'cause of course he's completely brainwashed at this point--but to buoy my spirit and remind me that I am not crazy. It's a perfect morale booster. You have virtually saved a life. Again, thank you,
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 7 Mar 1998 Thanks for making this web page available. I pray that the information you provide will help deliver people from the bondage of this cult. Thank you.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 7 Mar 1998 Hey Russ Good page you are speaking the truth. I to was in Amway for a couple of years and it turned sour. I don't wish to get into details but I would like add that reading through the replies I notice that the justification for Amway is how much business they do and how much money people make at it. If this is the case and its the money that makes it such a good "honest" business then I guess I should be a drug dealer because it to generates billions of dollars a year at the expense of other people and hey if I get my friends involved then I to can make them rich and fufill their dreams at the expense of other people. Amway like dealing drugs is based on people getting rich of the expense of other people and of course that is the side of the "PLAN" that they do not show or tell you. Keep up the good work and spread the truth because there are people who have not yet joined and with any luck they will see this page and save there hard earned savings for themselves and not some rich Diamond telling them that if they buy tools and products that they to can own a nice Cadillac like mine.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sat, 7 Mar 1998 Hello, I know you cant respond to all of your messages, but I just wanted to write to you and say I really wish I could have seen your page before I got into Amway. I have lost a lot since I got into that business and as of March 5, 1998 I QUIT!!! Actually I lost my Father and Father-in-Law all within 3 days of each other and well needless to say I was devistated. I rented a movie in between that time called The Devil's Advocate and well for anyone who hasn't seen that movie I do suggest you watch it so you can understand the true meaning of right from wrong. My intentions were good when I got into that business, but it is truly made up of greed and power. Nothing but what the Devil is made of. If you are in it I suggest that you should read your BIBLE now and get out while you still can. Don't let the Devil take over your life and SOUL!!! May God Bless You!!!
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 7 Mar 1998 This is something like Amway in that it's MLM, but without the selling. **************************************************************************** *********************************************** Fortune 5000 THE COMPANY Fortune 5000 is a direct marketing company that [OBNOXIOUS SELF-PROMOTION DELETED]
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 08 Mar 1998 Hi Russel. I'm an amway distributor of one year now. I first saw the plan 7 years ago. A year later my sister had joined and wanted me to "get in". I did and quit after 3 months, my sister stayed in. after 6 years I found out that my sister had attained "silver direct", making $3500.00 per month. My sister and her husband are no longer actively building a business, but they still receive that $3500.00 per month. For 6 years of part-time work, that is very impressive. I myself am doing great. This so-called education system that you spoke so "highly" of is better than any degree out there. It is true that one can spend a terrible amount of money on tapes, so can someone going to university for a five to six year degree. Which is totally useless, unless the "info that was learned" is put into practical use. So get off your high horse and get in with the real winners. Oh! Like I said, I have been a distributor for about a year now. I have 1863 people in my organization. I have personally sponsored 14 of them. I have helped many people, and by helping them, I have myself and my family. My final 3 words to are - GO POUND SALT
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 8 Mar 1998 I like your style, and it's a well-told experience. I''ve been in Amway now for about two months, but I don't think that it's as malevolent as your experience was ... of course, I've never crossed my upline, either. I guess I'll let you know.
Subject: Your Amway Story Mon, 09 Mar 1998 Dear Russel, You have done a great job by giving people an opportunity to find out. I am *****, an MBA and an engineer. I've worked in Finnish engineering companies for fifteen year now. About a week ago I got my first personal experience concerning network marketing. The company is GNLD or Golden Neo-Life Diamate International (What a name!). They sell the idea of making big money by recruiting more people. They have a bunch of over priced products as an excuse for what they do. It seems that it will be very hard to sell products that are two to four times more expensive than equivalent products in stores. A carpenter decorating our bathroom asked me to come and see a presentation. As I had learned to know him as a common sense person I agreed to go. What I saw was very confusing. It was just like you described in your Amway story. Success stories on one side and no real foundation for the success on the other side. When I Iooked for more info I found a Finnish web page criticizing the whole system. I gave a print out for the carpenter and he was very pleased with it. He was really grateful to receive some real information about the topic. I'm happy I could wake him up from the nightmare he was dreaming. I emailed a reporter in a local paper but she has not contacted me. I hope she will. The pest of network companies like GNLD and Amway is expanding aroung the world. GNLD is doing "business" in 44 countries now. Many people are going to burn their fingers. I heard about one unemployed guy who borrowed 16,000 FIM ($2900) to start as an "Independed Dealer" in GNLD. You get a lot of shampoo bottles for that money. I wonder what he says when he still has them in his carage a year later. Best regards and good luck for you
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 9 Mar 1998 I am a member of Brit World Wide. I was reading the information that you have in regard to Amway. Just some special notes to you. I have used Amway products before and I have found them very good. Since they are concentrated, they have saved me money! I like the fact, that they are also 100% guaranteed!!! Also, any job that a person is in these day, (especially if you have to climb the ladder to get higher wages and more prestige) is very cutthroat. That person will not care WHO they have to step over or on, to get ahead!!! If you talk about a pyramid system.... this is a prime example! As for your information in regard to a "cult", you spoke about "Love-Bombing" About hugging, touching and flattery. Well, I am married and I am a huggy person (that means touching) to my husband and our four children. As for flattery, you would be fooling yourself if you told me that you don't like being flattered, whether by what you say, or by what you look like. Any business a person goes into, whether it is an outside of the home job, or homebased, you have to work at it. If YOU don't, it will NOT succeed no matter who is involved with it! Thank you for your time.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 9 Mar 1998 Just wanted to drop you a note and tell you that you are very lucky. Unfortunately, pun intended, my wife and I went bankrupt in Amway & alienated close friends. The only good thing that came of my experience in Amway was that through the experience and an "amway" friend, I found our Lord, Jesus Christ. I am truly thankful. I think only because I did accept Christ, did I come to the realization that the big A is a cult, and no one who does not have $$ can build any kind of lasting wealth. Our direct sponsor quit a $400,000/yr job to go full time 6 months in, pulled his family out of one of the best public school districts in Mid-west, bought a motorcoach, etc.(talk about sold out). He has yet to reap the rewards. (side note:) The only way to make $$ in Amway today is to have an oversees organization and getting in on the motivational BIG $. You can never build anything quick/5-7years in U.S.) We were in 1yr and 8 months and lost/spent/etc. $16000.00 on travel, hotel, functions, food, "tools"/motivation/big money maker for upline, products, training on several specialty areas of Amway products, etc. We did paid our dues in more than effort. I only pray every nite that the madness of the Big A will stop. It is surely bankrupting thousands every year. Although it will be 7 years before my credit emerges, I am happier now that I'm out, financially, mentally, and spiritually. I could create my own horror story for millions to read, and I may yet. I can only do what hundreds of A people are doing every day, talking to one at a time about, Why not!!! Take care
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Dear "Russ", I am an Amway distributor, and after seeing this I felt that I should respond to you. The only thing I can say is this- Amway is not for everyone, but those who choose can become financially independent. It is not something for nothing. There is work involved and hours. But that is true in all other business ventures. Amway does not brainwash anyone. It is all choice. You chose not to, that is your choice. Everyone is their own person and should be allowed to make their own decisions. For me, what Amway offers is something I cannot find anywhere else. A chance. I am sorry you feel the way you do, but let others make their own decisions.
Subject: Amway (I just joined) Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Hey, I just read your webpage about your own Amway experience. I think that I have been exposed to exactly the same sales pitch you were..only I was working in a coffee shop when I was approached. Anyways, I feel like a complete idiot because I jumped into the hype too fast and I already paid the bastards $220. I'm glad I read your page however because now I'm going to look into the whole thing a lot more and hopefully stop the people I convinced downline from me to not pay the registration fee. Anyways, good job with the page.
Subject: AMWAY Perspective Tue, 10 Mar 1998 Hi Russ - Can't arque. Your points are all well taken. As an X distributor in a Yager line for a couple of years, I agree with all your comments, but I'm torn. Although I've lost contact with all my upline, during those two years I formed a mentoring relationship with my upline gold and emerald directs that I miss. It was great having that support. I honestly don't think either of them were conciously taking advantage of me. I learned a lot. I would like to find out how they are doing, but ask the question and the answer is always - 'Great!'. MLM is a dangerous animal if you don't understand the downside. MLM can also be a powerful tool to generate some great income if you're willing to do what it takes. I have tremendous respect for anyone who can make a go of AMWAY, however, AMWAY is a longshot. 80% of the so-called AMO training is on the curiosity approach. If you can't openly talk about the company you represent, it's a lost cause. Great site. Good luck in your endeavors. You've got a great analytical gift.
Subject: Amway Wed, 11 Mar 1998 I have just read your page about your experiences w/ Amway and wondering if you can help me out... I am a Junior at LSU and also in Computer Science. Recently someone offered me the same oppurtunity that you talked about. It is not exactly Amway but the their methods and persuasions are exactly the same. It is called the Brit System. Like you were I was interested but skeptical at the same time. What i'm really uneasy about is how they want to me to contact all of my friends(which i don't want to do for obvious reason)and tell them about the "plan". Can you please give me some advice if you have the time. I have noticed these people to be like a religious fundamentalist group,very moral and self-righteous(sp?).Please respond if you can. Thanks Subject: Re: Amway Fri, 13 Mar 1998 > Recently someone > offered me the same oppurtunity that you talked about. It is not exactly > Amway but the their methods and persuasions are exactly the same. It is > called the Brit System. It IS exactly Amway. Precisely, it is an AMO (Amway Motivational Organization) named after Bill Britt, a very well-known diamond distributor. Surprised?
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 12 Mar 1998 Hi just wanted to let you know that I added your page to my new little scAmway page. Please let me know what you think. I am still working on it. http://members.aol.com/amwayscam/main.html
Subject: amway Thu, 12 Mar 1998 You seem to have it a bit upside down!!! Sure someone pays(looses) that's the existing retailers who normally would have got the sale....not the downline. Some people see it , some don't....shame!!!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 12 Mar 1998 To Russell My Uncle & Auntie have recently become involved in Amway they did try and get myself and rest of my family involved and are still trying to get my mum involved she stayed over one weekend and when she woke in the morning he played her one of the Amway tapes - she coud'nt believe it! We have, well i say we but my partner who is a computer consultant/engineer and quite intelligent saw through it but i cant help thinking am i passing up a good opportunity, but on the other hand i think NO no im not and im not going to. Tell me how did you remember everything in such detail? dont get me wrong most of your story relates to my aunt and uncles and i am very interested in cults and how they work and i just feel they should get out of this because i dont want them to be "Chasing a Dream" please reply if you can.
Thu, 12 Mar 1998 Russell are you sure your not someone who was just a bit bored and thought they would make up a good story on Amway! I have a couple of relatives in Amway who i am quite concerned about so if you story is just a STORY (made up story) i will be really disappointed.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 13 Mar 1998 Dear sir, As a new (three month) Amway distributor in Australia and always interested in other's opinions I noticed your comments on your experiences with investigating the Amway business opportunity. I absolutey agree that each and every individual has the right to free speech and so therefore so you have a right to publish whatever you wish. This does not mean obviously that everything you say is true. Every business in the world has a "cross to bear". Even in the AMWAY business, but after my experience in the "corporate" world I can only say that after much investigation of the Amway business opportunity (considerably more than your investigation) I found that it is a business for everyone but not everyone is for the business. In support of the business, you are basically a "statistic". You said "no". You are one of the many people who investigate the business based on what other "experts" say rather on fact. I can only be sure of one thing....one day (like me) the business will be introduced to you again by someone, professionally, at the right time, and you will have had the experience of "life" behind you by which to judge the opportunity on. One day, I look forward to meeting you as a Diamond on a stage somewhere telling your story to others. Best wishes Subject: Finished your Amway story... Fri, 13 Mar 1998 Just one question Russell....are you Jewish? It's just your last name is a popular Jewish one.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Thu, 12 Mar 1998 Did you ever look at the books they sell? Nobody is getting rich off of them -- the Diamonds don't make money unless it is to offset the price of having to buy them in volume to pass on to their downline. The books are cheaper than they would be if they sold in a store (which they do, and are huge best sellers.). Don't you think it is unethical the way businesses are run, where the guy at the top makes all the money, dies early and was a workaholic his entire life? THe pyramid scheme notion really doesn't hold up, because Amway is constantly expanding its product line and changing its nature. Why would huge companies like Nike and Hoover and Magnavox distribute through Amway if it were a Pyramid: wouldn't they be afraid of the negative publicity? Think: if you cut out enough costs by selling product without hitting all the middlemen, there really is enough left over to pay the Emerald and Diamond bonuses. You see? The amount of our nation's deficit is nearly 5 trillion dollars, and Amway has only hit revenues of 7 billion, so why is is so terrible, but America is a great place to live, and our country isn't in total anarchy? In short, Amway develops many great qualities in people, provides them awesome family lives (I suppose you never met any of the Diamond's kids -- any parent would be incrediably proud of them. My upline Emerald's daughter was last year's Miss Iowa, the youngest ever, and had no huge emotional or psychological issues whatsoever, like so many "normal" kids have) Oh, boy. Saturation is a valid point, but it is stupid to think any multi billion dollar company is going to stand around and watch itself run into the ground -- they will continue to change like any other successful business would. And if you criticize the Amway people, then what must you think of the idiots who are all around you? There are more than 15 million cocaine addicts in the US, and only 1 million Amway distributors. Who is the problem? I don't know. Will you respond to me; I'm not being rude, but I'd like to understand what your honest theories are, not just hype about cults, etc. Teambuilding is HUGE in American businesses right now -- is every company out there a cult? I'd really like to know if your claims are substantiated or merely ignorance of something you don't honestly understand.
THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: Amway distributors may be crazy, but at least they're not as bad as cocaine addicts.
Good point, thanks.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 12 Mar 1998 Thank you. I have been approached two times by Amway people and refused,but this time I almost succombed. I was looking for something else on the internet, found it, had some time to spare before going to an Amway meeting with such a nice lady!?!? Her lines were exactly as you said. they must all be brainwashed and I almost was,too. I have been looking at sights all evening now and they all say the same thing almost verbatim! Scary! This is the third time and I sincerely hope the last. Thank you for sharing your story.
Subject: reply to amway story. well done. Sat, 14 Mar 1998 Dear Russell, Read your story. Well said. We just had a stranger turn up on our doorstep with some old aquaintances. Amway reps! We're just sorry they got sucked in. But they wont suck us in. I can't believe people with obvious intelligence still join. Neil, the so called friend had been in the business for 6 years and couldn't explain to me how the system worked! Ridiculous!!! On the up side if you want to know about a network marketing company that really does deliver , check out Usana on the net. Because we're open minded skeptics we've checked out a heck of a lot of Network Marketing companies and none compare. The products are really cutting edge. Do your own research on the founder, Dr Myron Wentz (co-founder of Gull Laboratories). He's a scientist that is interested in helping people, really. You don't have to believe us, just check it out for yourself. You seem to be a person that likes to get to the bottom of things, so really check it out. If you wan't to ask us any questions E Mail us on djkeys@aia.net.au. Yes we're in Australia! Seem's funny we're telling you about a company that comes from your home country(I'm assuming your in the U.S of A). USANA has only been in Australia for about 3 weeks and already there are a number(100) of people that have been given cheques of $1000. I know a few, so I can easily say, yes it does work. And the down side is you can get healthly. So hows the weather? Hopefully we'll talk to you soon, Good luck with your programming.
Subject: Re: Amway Fri, 13 Mar 1998 Do you know where I can get more info on this Bill Brit, possibly through the internet or something? This person is continuing to be persistent, he wants me to go to Knoxville for their huge convention.I told him I was going to nashville to see my family(which is where I am from). So now he's offering to drive to Nashville, pick up me and my family, and take us to Knoxville. How can I get this loser off my back. I'm sorry for bothering you like this, but I read your story and hopefully you can give me a little advice on the subject. Thanks
Subject: love your amway site Fri, 13 Mar 1998 hi russ, i wont take much of your time so here goes........i made the HORRIBLE mistake of actually signing up to be a distributor, decided to do some research after my stupidity, and reached your site. all i can say man, is THANK YOU!!!!! i like you got some real info and turned 180 degrees, much to the chagrin of my upline, who have been vociferous in denouncing you as a malcontent. i too have developed a "lone ranger type attitude" and have gone on the offensive against these hucksters. needless to say they haven't taken it to well, but fortunately i am in such a position that if they tried anything funny, i could ruin them in my little corner of the world. ah heck, i already am trying to ruin them!!!!! any how just thought i would drop you a line and tell you to keep up the good work! your obviously pissin alot of amdroids off! i for one LOVE it!!!!!! thanks for li