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Subject: Need some help! urgent! Sat, 14 Mar 1998 My son is involved with Amway...my daughter, his sister is going to CA for a visit. My son is taking her to something in Oregon the weekend of March 27. I am afraid she will get brainwashed there..Could you help me find out what is going on where? when? As my son won't give me details. My daughter is 16...and I don't want her involved....yet I need to keep peace in the family. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Please reply ASAP if you know anything about a get - together or meeting,
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 14 Mar 1998 Howdy Russell, I just wanted to thank you for your site. My husband and I have had a man HOUNDING us to join INA....basically another name for Amway. I wanted to do some research before I even committed to any meetings. Your story captivated me. All the tactics that "Phil" used are the same this man is using. Casual conversation...seeming to be interested in my opinions...using my dreams and values as ammunition. It's a pathetic company and I feel pity on all those mislead people. Thanks again for you site!!!
Subject: No flames, no cutdowns, just a comment or two Sun, 15 Mar 1998 Hi there, I've been going through your web page about Amway, with some chuckles to go along with it. (Yes, I am a distributor.) My opinion about the business is that it's the greatest opportunity in the world, the only problem being is when you throw people in it, it messes it up! The corporation itself I think is superior to most other corporations I've dealt with. What you are "bashing", if you want to call it, is the "system", which in surfing the web, appears to have "greed" undermining it.(Reference the schwartz site, about tools.) I always wondered (and disagreed with)the overemphasis on the system, and the underemphasis on products and services, which I am understanding why now. I plan on continuing my business, because of the integrity I bring to it, and hope I can duplicate that to my group(I have been so far.) Just a note about the "pyramid" thing....You can make a lot of money in the business without sponsoring people. This is simply a matter of customers finding other customers finding other customers, much like if you told a friend about a great price on a widget at Walmart. I could make more money just developing 7500 points worth of wholesale customers, and keeping the residuals to myself, than to sponsoring people. Granted this would be a considerable amount of work...but the corporation is making it easier all the time(Have you heard about APRS yet?) Anyway, I'm glad you are keeping an open forum for the good and the bad, and hope everyone makes an intelligent decision for their own situation. Oh, yes, about your story...it's too bad they tried shoving this business down your throat, and got so defensive about your questioning the business. A good Christian attitude would have prevented that. But, when there are people involved....you never know what will happen! Have a good one! ***** Florida
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 16 Mar 1998 How's that software career coming along? I think you must be the smartest person on the planet to develop such an insightful and precise view into the world of Amway from the outside. It must be incredible to be you! Thanks for such an informative web site. It really means a lot to me to know there are people like you out there that care so much! WOW! I came so close to signing up it is scary. Thanks for your leadership and influence worldwide. Worshipfully, *****
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 16 Mar 1998 man i was a ruby and I had enough. I was supposed to give my owe life up to go diamond. A ruby makes 8-15 thousand a month and I was going crazy with all the attitudes and worshipping of the diamonds. I quit, though i still make some money, they call me a loser now. Great insights on your site.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 15 Mar 1998 Hi I am also like you and doing research about this thing. I am in and trying to get insider information. I pointed out all these observations after researching long time and thinking over it and applying logic. And asked these questions to uplines but either they kept quite or gave motivatonal speech. I am also young and in software and want to have my own company and earn money with satisfaction of doing something. I 'll write my story in detail later. Thanks.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Mon, 16 Mar 1998
I have read your story from top to bottom in one setting - yes,
really! I am currently as you were when this happened to you - ANGRY AS
HELL! Your experience sounds so similar to mine and my husband's except
that we've only been to one meeting.
We were deceived by what we thought of as an old friend and co-worker
to join an "up and coming company which wanted to expand to our area -
Florida". They needed people to handle the "shipping & receiving" of
their products. They wanted us to gather some friends of military
background to be able to assist them in getting this business "off the
ground". When we asked questions, we received many, many evasive
answers but never a company name or exact items that would be shipped or
received. Of course, our "friend" called twice from out of town and
then he and his "friend" spent "their hard-earned money" to come from
Virginia to discuss this business venture with us. When they visited us
in our home the first evening, they just asked lots of questions about
us, our family, our jobs and our lives. Upon leaving 30 minutes later,
we were all invited to a "casual meeting" but we still didn't know what
the company was.
My husband and I arrived at their friend's house for this casual
meeting with him in jeans and cowboy boots (Cowboy ballcap included) and
I in just a pair of slacks and a sweater. We felt immediately like
outcasts without our suits! Unfortunately we also brought with us three
friends who were dressed the same. (Luckily our friends are still
speaking to us, but only because we did a lot of crawling on our knees
begging for forgiveness.)
They talked for 1 hr. 15 minutes before they finally gave us the name
of the company - AMWAY! We were completely shocked and were furious as
well for the deception which brought us all to this home.
We left very shortly after the presentation was given feeling
humiliated that we were deceived so easily. Upon leaving our "friend"
gave us a briefcase full of tapes and material to "look over before
making any decision whatsoever". He also told us that he was sorry if
we felt deceived in any way, but if he wasn't "evasive" people didn't
come to hear what sort of money could be made with only a few hours of
work per week. We politely took the briefcase full of information home
and we've scanned it, but decided before we had driven away from that
home that this was probably a "no go".
After reading all the information that we have been able to get our
hands on from the internet (your site definitely included), we have made
our decision a "definite" no go instead of a "probable" no go.
While reading from the sites we found so much of it in common - the
breath spray, the yellow note pads (with notes furiously being taken by
everyone except us), the suits, the white grease board, the loads of
foods for after the presentation, etc. I'm sure it will be funny in
months to come, but right now we are still angry. We are trying to
decide whether to mail his info back with a wonderfully informative note
as to why we don't want in or to wait until he comes to get it so that
we can tell him to his face. Personally, I'm so peeved that I would
rather him never show his face to us again. What do you think?
Anyway, I feel that if they continue to deceive people in this manner,
they will continue to do without people such as ourselves. We will
continue to work hard for our money earning it honestly and not taking
from our friends and family.
Thank you for all the information you have provided about your meeting
with the AMWAY representatives and for letting me vent my still current
anger.
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 16 Mar 1998 You know, I almost signed with AMWAY in the past few days. I decided to check the internet (I have it at work, not home) for their webpage and guess what....the company had a warning not look at or believe the other sites that were putting negative stuff out about AMWAY.....well, what an invitation to do just that !!!!! I can't unload enough of the "information" pages out there telling the truth about AMWAY. Actually, the pages do nothing more than verbalize what I have been thinking...particularly about the "tools', "tape" industry (in and of itself) and markup/shipping prices on the products....in fact I mentioned this to my about-to-be sponsor (SAT night) because I am such a bargain shopper and price means a great deal to me (he couldn't refute it)......AND, I have found the "Critic's Choice" brand food products in BIG LOTS discount stores and wondered what the "Critic's Choice" brand was (no big deal in taste)...... YES, and I thought about the time involved and working so hard to make a couple of bucks. I wanted to know how long it takes to MAKE it.....no one can tell me. I spent $35 last week going to meetings and paying parking (I was told that it would be tax-deductible.) Good grief, all I could possibly see is money draining away so I would have an opportunity to "make" money.......and all they talk about are the trips, etc....heck, trips don't mean doodly to me.....what counts is the money......I will digest this ream of info in the next couple of days ! I always felt that the reason I received so much attention from my potential sponsor is so he can get my warm market list....and he knows I am very good with people......the product mark-ups (postage and higher cost) go against my very frugal being......I nearly choked Saturday night at a rally when the presenter, with a straight face,mentioned cookware only costing $1.000 ....jeez. And me, here, using my Grandmother's 70 year-old cookware. I am aghast at the fleecing of POOR Americans.......but P.T. Barnum summed it up best didn't he ? 'There's a sucker born every minute... I will digest this info. What is so funny is that this guy and his wife are very intelligent and they are "falling" for this stuff?.....I find it hard to believe that they believe it all without recognizing that it is a rip-off to get folks into dumping their wallets out on the table for someone else to grab. AND....no, I don't believe I have EVER known anyone to make it big in this business. Thanks for the tips....glad you are out there.
Subject: Multi Level Marketing Mon, 16 Mar 1998 Hello Mr. Glasser; Please allow the opportunity to introduce myself. My name is Mr. *****, and I am 23 years old. I am a philosopher, and like you, I too was in a multi-level cult. At first I was introduced to Prime- America, you know, the insurance company. Well I joined them, and they used the same techniques that Amway, Herbalife,etc... utilise. However, because I am a thnker, I realized that "hey, it is all hype and no action, if everyone is making so much moey, than where is the money?", also I realized that "can all of these people actually have MY interst at heart?" Of course I learned that they only cared about themselves. Well I just wanted to thank you, for the service that you provided. I am sure that any open minded person will see the light if they examine your website with an objective angle. Oh yes, I also wanted to ask you this question, I have a friend of mine that is involved with Excel, Excel is a multi level long distance type of business. After my friend has joined Excel, he has not been the same. How can I tell **** that Excel is nothing but a scheme? I would greatly appreciate it if you were to give me advice on that.
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 16 Mar 1998 Hi, Just read your story which was very helpful.Was invited by a neighbor last week to find out more about a "private franchise" buisness. It turned out to be Amway. This was my first exposure to Amway. He gave me several tapes to take home and an information packet. Fortunately, the next day I got on the internet and read lots about scamway. Thankyou for having the information you have on Amway. You certainely have helped me to make a decision to not get scammed.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 17 Mar 1998 must first start by saying thankyou.I am currently under the hard sell of so called friend who is trying to get me involved.Of course being prudent I searched the net.You know the thing that doesnt reach anyone lol.Along with your page and others I found so far that you have been on the mark about Amway.Word for word verbatum they spouted there plan for success.However they didnt figure theyd run into a Christian whose not motivated by riches and things.But rather following Gods direction for my life.In all honesty I could not bamboozal folks.I couldnt get rich at others expense nor gain by feeding them a lie.I applaud your page and your courage in bringing this information to us(the losers).I would rather work my life at my low paying job than to become a stepford husband to Amway.They simply give me the creeps.Thanks to you I shall not atend one meeting.No need to go through what you did.Once again I thankyou and God bless you and your family.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Tue, 17 Mar 1998
I have been introduced to this topic of AMWAY and being the person that I
am, feel its necessary to research all business opportunities.
I have come across various sites on the web and would like to know what is
the major downfalls of this scheme as everyone seems to be making money. (Or
is that a hoax too !!)
It would be appreciated if you could send me some info on this matter.
Thanks
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Tue, 17 Mar 1998
> dean wrote:
>
> I have been introduced to this topic of AMWAY and being the person
> that I am, feel its necessary to research all business opportunities.
>
> I have come across various sites on the web and would like to know
> what is the major downfalls of this scheme as everyone seems to be
> making money. (Or is that a hoax too !!)
>
I'd like to know what you mean when you say that "everyone" appears to
be making money. If you go up to a random person in Amway and ask about
their individual distributor income, the answer you will get in 99 cases
out of a hundred is either a highly evasive one, or an offer to
introduce you to someone ELSE who is making big money.
That's easily done because the hierarchical/pyramid structure of the
"business" is set up in such a way that everybody is guaranteed to know
SOMEBODY who is successful, yet the actual success rate is very small.
Don't take my word for it: go conduct your own survey.
If you read some things I said on my argument page about millionaire
statistics, you will see my conclusion that the proportion of people who
get rich from Amway is actually much smaller than the proportion of
those who get rich in "real life".
Subject: SCAMWay!!
Tue, 17 Mar 1998
Hi I read your pages (actually mostly Sidneys' - they seem to work now!)
Yours was the only email address that I found so I thought I'd send to
you. I hope this info is useful.
I am 24 and live with my wife and child in South Africa. About a week
ago I was contacted by a PAINFULLY polite person who told me how I could
make lots of cash.
You can spot these dolts from a mile off, always telling you what an
excellent opportunity this is but always avoiding direct questions (you
know, the simple kind like What do you sell and how does the money get
to me?)
Anyway, painfully polite came to see us to show us the wonderful amway
way. The main thing that annoyed me was the constant questions on what
would you like to do with the money? Constantly glittering-up the
procedure with pretty painted pictures of a life of luxury. Luckily I am
always skeptical , as any violence shaken South African now is, and
insisted on an explanation on "the system". Which leads me (finally) to
my point.
In Amway you will constantly hear the McDonalds analogy. Whereby this
Ray dude has bazillions of franchises as it has become a household name
and how Ray only makes a quarter of a sesame seed profit on each burger
sold even if there are so many of them that it doesnt matter as it all
adds up.
Amway works in a downline/upline method. Whereby someone who is a
distibutor will as you to be a distributor whereby you earn points and
eventually money from themselves finding distributors. What Amway does
not realize (and this is particularly why I hope Amway fails dismally in
South Africa) is Market Saturation.
1)
There is only SO-MUCH demand for one product. Sooner or later youself
and the hundreds of dealers down the line from you could sell to no-one
but yourselves (highly encouraged by amway).
2) (My hope and dream) South Africa being isolated from the world has
been reliant on local and existing international brand names for years.
This is no more easily seen than the recent LIQUIDATION of our local
PEPSI company. YES. PEPSI DID NOT MAKE IT OUT HERE! The Market was
saturated by Coca Cola and all the aggressive marketing in the world
could not bring Pepsi up to speed.
Amway has introduced only 25 claning products in a catalogue for South
Africa. Is it conceivable that people will turn their loyalty from
existing brands? When you join amway you are advised to use only ambrand
products (they claim to be cheaper) but if PEPSI could not sway peoples
loyalty,I hope amway has the same fate!
3)
I tried asking the same question in different ways but keeped getting a
similar brush off.
If person X is down the line from your buds' buds' moms' sisters' buds'
husband who you introduced originally sold Y products, it has to come up
the line and get split a couple of times between donliners before it
gets to you. Surely at some point this loses value? The response was the
Ray and the sesame seed story.
So Ray only makes a quarter of a sesame seed on each burger. So you dont
lose?
WRONG!
The McDonalds anaolgy is a TOTAL LIE! Think about it.
The McDonalds chain has a maximum number of links.
If Joe Bloggs has a McDonalds, Joe makes money from a portion of burger
sales.
If Joes bud, Harry wants to open a McDonalds he may approach Joe and
open his own store. Joe MIGHT get a comission ONCE from McDonalds for
roping in Harry, but his main source of revenue is the amount of burgers
HE shovels across the counter.
JOE =====>
REGION/STATE McDONALDS========>HEAD McDONALDS
HARRY===>
Is this not correct? The chain stops at the outlet. Even if Joe owns two
outlets there is still only ONE head McDonalds and ONE regional branch.
This is not how I see amway. The amway chain carries on ad infinitum.
Our JOE and HARRY chain now looks like this
HARRY ==> JOE ==> JOES BUD ==> BUDS BUD ===> WHOEVER ==> AMWAY
The line is infinitely long and can get longer. My argument is surely at
some point the value is lost coming up the line rather than up a fixed
route with a known maximum number of links?
In conclusion (finally) I would really like to see con artists like
amway, fail in South Africa and for anyone who is in the dark....FORGET
IT! JUST SAY NO!
Subject: Re: SCAMWay!!
Tue, 17 Mar 1998
You wrote:
>
> 1)
> There is only SO-MUCH demand for one product. Sooner or later youself
> and the hundreds of dealers down the line from you could sell to no-one
> but yourselves (highly encouraged by amway).
>
...
>
> Is this not correct? The chain stops at the outlet. Even if Joe owns two
> outlets there is still only ONE head McDonalds and ONE regional branch.
> This is not how I see amway.
These are excellent points. And what the Ray Kroc analogy
fails to observe is that there only ever was ONE Ray Kroc in the history
of McDonald's. There are thousands of franchise buyers, and they make
decent money, or so I understand -- a somewhat above average living,
more or less equivalent to a "Direct" in Amway.
But when I think of the average Amway distributor, these guys can only
be compared to the "X billion served" who BUY the hamburgers. They
don't make money... they just eat mediocre hamburgers for a couple of
bucks each. That's where all the money comes from in McDonald's.
The flaw in the Amway franchise pitch is that they want to declare that
every distributor is like Ray Kroc. Impossible! In a real business, it
takes thousands of genuine "buyers" (for a cheap product) to make one
person's fortune. At McDonald's, buyers know that they're buyers and
they know what they're getting. In Amway, the buyers believe that they
are "investing" in the opportunity to become Ray Kroc. But the money
must come from somewhere, and guess who it comes from? The 99.985% who
all THINK they're gonna go diamond, but never will.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Tue, 17 Mar 1998
Hey,
I thought your ( AM WAY hit the HIGHWAY) article was very
enlightening because just last night I was invited to a "business
meeting" with a "friend" of mine who didn't explain who the parties
would be attending. And, yes you guessed it AMWAY reps. Just like you, I
am a computer science graduate and I know the power of social
engineering that AMWAY practices to recruit it's members. I also know
the power of the internet to get revelant information out to the people
who are looking. Just wanted to say thanks for the information, I'll
pass it on to my friend and give AMWAY back their materials. Thanks.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 17 Mar 1998 I loved it!!!!! Are you currnetly involved in any other MLM companies?
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Tue, 17 Mar 1998 Thanks for your website. I've been wondering for the past three years if I was the only one who felt this way about Amway? I got so sick and tired of hearing how important the tapes and seminars are. But the most shocking thing is that I never realized how brainwashed these people are until I came across yours and other anti Amway sites. Thank you very much.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 17 Mar 1998 Loved your story. Glad you didn't get sucked into it. You've got a great sense of humour. I tried to get my ex husband out of Amway (We were newly separated at that point.). I had obtained a packet of information from Stacey Hanrahan in Pennsylvania. I wrapped it up in gift wrap and gave it to him as a Christmas present. I said, "This is the best present I could ever give you". Don't know if he ever read it. He was brainwashed from the first meeting.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1)
Wed, 18 Mar 1998
I have no reason to insult you; however I don't understand why you want to
ruin A dream for someone who didn't have the same choices in life that you
have had. Maybe it appears to be A scam to you but to many people it is A
source of hope. We live in a time of constance
change and some people can't make that change, or won't.
If you have resurched all of the information you will find that
there is enough proof to support that there is a chance for A person to
find A greater good, personal or otherwise. It is A shame that all people
don't have the focus that you have , but should that restrict them from
having A dream or A goal that will better there lifestyle? The objective
may not be monitary it may only be to be more positive but it is A step in
A direction that can change a persons life , no matter how small it might
be. The last issue I would like to mention is that you are
young, you have not yet begun to feel the full presures of life,and I
sincerely hope you don't,but please remember what you have said in about 10
years.
thank you and good luck
Subject: Thanks for the site
Thu, 19 Mar 1998
Thanks for the great amway page--I know you get a lot of letters, so I won't
feel slighted if you do not respond. I especially had to write to you when
I saw that Jim Henson was one of your personal heroes. (A hero of mine as
well)
I was hooked on your story --it sounded a lot like mine. About 8 years ago,
I worked part time for a christian book store and the owner was involved in
Amway. (Only he was in it to sell his books to other distributors) I was
asked to join as well and did so for about 2 weeks--I was totally turned off
from the motivational meetings. I no longer work for the bookstore--he
sold it off to someone else and the last I heard he makes a living setting
up christian book tables at Amway conventions.
At the time I started working at the bookstore, since then I have
received 8 calls asking me if I was "interested in starting a business of my
own". They all started with the same thing-- "I am starting a business
venture of my own with a few friends and wanted to know if you are
interested" - or- "I was curious if you were interested in doubling your
income?" (Yeah, right--how do you say no to that?)
At first I used to just laugh it off like many do and think, "Well, it
works for some people, but not for me--if its working for you, great"
However, about 6 years ago while still working at the book store, I met a
couple that my wife and I had a great deal in common with. We started going
to church together and felt like we met some great friends. (As you get
older, finding a good friend gets more difficult) Well, one night, I
received a call that started, "Hey Tim, hows it going? I am starting a new
business venture with a few friends of mine....." Well, of course I knew
what it was all about and being my 8th amway call, I was able to ask point
blank--"Well, this sounds interesting, but is this Amway?" Of course they
all have to be honest if asked--My friend did in fact say so and I have
never heard from him again. It was this experience with Amway that has
left me a little more negative towards the organization.
Anyway, I guess I am a "loser" now according to them, but I still have a
great marriage and doing well at my job. [Web Administrator]
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 19 Mar 1998 I am glad I went to college and earned my degree. One thing college taught me was to research and check my references. I only hope I am not too late to turn my wife away from this farce. I have a friend whom I'll call Dean that I met 25 years ago. We both live in the same Alaska town of Juneau. He introduced me to the Amway business 12 years ago and I was fired up. Later, I learned from other good friends the nonsense of the Amway business. I was taken aback when my wife became involved with the Amway business. However, I decided to keep the peace by indulging her interest and asked who her upline happened to be. Oddly enough, her upline happened to be my friend of years ago that my wife had once suspiousons about back then. I wish she kept it. It so happened that I was experiencing a difficult time at work and as an elected Director of my ANCSA corporation(Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act corporation). I was feed up with both and was hoping for something more positive in my life. Recently, my wife and I welcomed the birth of our daughter. She changed our life by bringing my wife into our chosen church. This has been a positive move in our marriage and life. It seemed life was going to get better. However, my wife lost her business several years ago, made political enemies of a select group of powerful Alaska Native Leaders, and could not find a job. She has her Master's Degree in Public Administration. She had been on the road to success when she began to get too ambitious politically. This was to her demise. Anyway, she was given a business card by a church member who called her to a meeting. The people she met at this meeting were very positive and all middle to upper middle class non Alaska Native(not indian, eskimo or aleut). This was just the kind of people she was looking to asscoiate with. She wanted me to meet them to see how great they are. I did and was immediately taken in because of my vunerability from being disatisfied my job and native corporation. Well, we joined and began prospecting and listening to motivational tapes and attending group meetings. I then did what I normally do and research all sources to verify claims made by people. This is when I began to run accross your information as well as others who had negative experience with the Amway buisness and its affiliated groups. Moreover, I began to remember the no's and no shows of 12 years ago and good advice given me by several friends regarding the Amway business concept. It was then I felt like my gut had been hit with a solid karate punch or kick( I am a martial artist, so is my friend who is the leader of this Amway group). I am glad I ran across this material since it has given me my senses back. I just hope what I printed will convince my wife the same way. It may difficult since she has nothing but disappointment with her business and her job searching.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 21 Mar 1998 I guess I'm a fanatic because I read the whole thing. It's 2:30 in the morning and I'm absolutely tired but I had to read on because I was just in an Amway meeting and I was skeptical about the whole thing. Everything you wrote described what happened to me tonight. I am so glad I was able to read you story so I can prevent my sister and her boyfriend from going to a meeting tomorrow. Just to let you know, the name of the company was Brit Worldwide. They said they are not Amway they only distribute their products. Hope you can update your imformation with that. Thanks alot.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sat, 21 Mar 1998 Have enjoyed reading your story and letters from around the globe. I was a distributor in the Amway business for 2 years. I was sponsored by my boss, and felt a little uncomfortable about the whole thing, but at $150 decided to give it a try, I though what do I have to loose. My wife on the other hand was very sceptical all along, and turned out to be the wise one. Once I started to "plug in" I was very quickly beginning to walk, talk and act like the system wanted me to. I eventually started to check deep inside myself and would study what the bible said concerning what was happening to me (yes I am a Christian), and I found scripture upon scripture that spoke to me concerning the deception I was involved in. It was a revelation to me to see the truth coming out, and when I approached my upline and shared this scriptural revelation, they were furious and would not listen to a word I said. Needless to say we started to unplug from the group, and our so called close friends in the business started to not be our friends anymore. I want to let everyone know that it took over two years of reprogramming my mind to wipe away a lot of the wrong things that I continually put into my mind through the motivational materials. The mind is a very, very powerful thing, and you must guard it with all your might, not allowing the wrong things to be put into it. I must say in conclusion that I did learn a lot of positive and good things while associated with the business, but the manipulation of the distributors is of a scary proportion. You may ask how qualified I am to comment like this, my wife and I are both professionals in the top 3% income bracket in the USA, moving to high levels of income through non Amway opportunities. There is life and success outside of the Amway business and people need to know this!!!
Subject: :) Your website. Sat, 21 Mar 1998 Hi.. !! My husband and I are Amway distributors, and I have to admit, I am very impressed by your tenacity and passion in "setting the world straight" about the Amway Corporation. <g> From your writings, the way you express your opinions, and the way you've structured your site, I can tell that you ARE exceptionally smart!!!, but then again, I'm sure you know that. One question... Why are you putting all this energy into a business that you obviously want no part of?? :) Amway is not for everyone.. neither is Medicine, or Law, or waitressing, etc, etc. We look at our Amway business the same way anyone else who is committed and wants to be successful would look at their "traditional" business. Work, determination, and belief are the deciding factors between success and failure. In ANY business. Amway is no different. We got in the business the same way everyone else does. We purchased a business kit. We are seeing rewards. I don't know why some do and some don't. I don't think we've been "lucky". We've just focused on results. Maybe we have had success for the same reason my husband was one of 39 who graduated from Medical school out of a class that was originally over 500 ?? ( OH.... the price of the business kit, yes. It is more expensive now than when we signed up... but it also has more products and information than it did back then. Maybe that's the reason?? <rolling eyes> lol....) There really is no point to this letter... LOL ( I suppose I *MAY* be having a blonde moment...) something just compelled me to write.. maybe let you know that I read all the information you so eloquently and entertainingly put there, and it hasn't phased me.? ( I did enjoy reading it.. honest. I told ya.. I'm impressed !!!) That there are always people in all walks of life that try to do things in a "less than ethical" manner...why should *some* Amway distributors be any different??? and there are people in all walks of life that have contributed a great deal to society and mankind.?? Why should Amway distributors be any different?? Would you consider the Medical profession bad because so many doctors have been convicted of crimes, or had their licenses revoked because of incompetence??? Why would you look at Amway distributors any differently ?? I do wish you the best in whatever endeavor you are pursuing!!. And I will be checking back to your page periodically, see what you've come up with :) You sound like a great young whippersnapper. lol Have a great day!! ;-)
Final count: Three smilies, one grin, one set of spinning eyes, and three "lol's". Maybe Amway really *does* make people happier.
Or blonder.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 21 Mar 1998 Great job, classic story. I'm one of the lucky ones, the first MLM I joined I made $10,000. But now I am NOT involved in any! I, too, understand the system. Good luck to you.
Subject: your amway page Sun, 22 Mar 1998 Hi, Russ... My response to Sidney can be found on page 46 of his responses, about a third of the way down. It starts, "My cousin recruited me into Amway in the spring of 1991." About 2 years ago I looked into Excel. Didn't stay with it, mainly because the one thing all MLM's--good, bad, and ugly--have in common is that you have no business getting involved in one unless you have the aptitude and the desire to be a sales flack. Can't agree that all MLM's are scams, as Amway is. What I saw of Excel was that they were conducting business like a business. Their weekly meetings were 45 minutes long, and were a no-nonsense presentation of their compensation plan; there was a sign out front that said WELCOME TO EXCEL TELECOMMUNICATIONS, not the "curiosity approach" pulled by Amway; Excel is publicly traded on the stock market; their service is good (I'm still a customer); training materials and recruitment tools were given to me by the handful; the only cassettes were audio of the business presentation, with nothing comparable to the SOT; there were no touchy-feely functions, etc. Excel IS where I first heard the term J-O-B, but that's probably because of the large number of former Ambots involved. Anyway, MLM may well be an inherently unstable way of doing business in the long run, as you claim (not my problem, fortunately); but I believe the Excel people at least are operating in good faith and not pulling a scam. Anyway, I'm sure you hear this a lot, but... have Ginny hurry up with the rest of her story!! Best to you both,
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 23 Mar 1998 very impressive I HAVE NOW decided that i'm getting out after 6 years both here in Leicestershire England& Brisbane Australia. I have just moved approx 600 tapes into the garage(any ideas on getting any money 4 them) still believe in the principals of MLM but feel that people in Amway have found the real money is not in SA8 but in tapes,books& functions. Please reply with any info you may have of use too me
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 23 Mar 1998 content good scrren color sucks - only have a 16 color vga - white on red unreadable
Subject: How to INCREASE your AMWAY Sales and Downline!! Tue, 24 Mar 1998 Hi! Are you interested in learning about a Wave 4 Product to help you explode the growth of your Amway downline? If so, just reply with 'More Information" in the subject line. I'll be glad to provide you the details as to how this 'network marketers toolbox' can do just that.
No, but can you sell me a Wave 4 Product to help make YOU explode?
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 24 Mar 1998 I am sorry that you had a bad experience, but I believe that many people find good in the Amway business. I know people who have become better people because of it - saved their marriages and many other positive things. As with all things, it is not for everyone. What are you doing with your life now? Do you have your web page as a hobby?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 24 Mar 1998 This is a personal note to you and, based on your personal integrity, I would ask that you would not circulate this.
Summary of message (which I am not printing in full, as per their request): low pin level, deep faith in God, tapes are good, sorry you didn't stick with the business, it's not for everyone, your web page will help me present the plan better, yadda yadda yadda. Oh, and of course they wish me success in the end.
Don't know why they didn't want it circulated, since it's basically just a repeat of half the things on my argument page.
Subject: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 Hi, Just last night a friend of mine could not make our usual Tuesday night game because of a meeting with an ex-work college to discuss ' a business opportunity'. He did however make it to the after game beer. We all thought this 'meeting' could be only one of two things; pyramid selling or partner swapping. Unfortunately for us the juicy topic of the latter was not to be. An e-mail from him this morning guided me to your page on Amway. Well, what a story. I think he plans to meet again with these people later this week but armed with the knowledge from the likes of yourself it should prove somewhat interesting, even cruel! He will then broadcast to all the 'potential' contacts within his workplace, warning of this character and his intention. Thus depriving him of all on his initial target list! Ha! I was curious about the career you had planned. I hope you have found it into the industry and are having as much fun as I've had in it over the past 12 years. Best Regards, ***** Psygnosis Ltd.
Cool company, man.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 25 Mar 1998 Hey, I liked your page. Yes, I read the whole thing (I had nothing to do at work.) You saved me from having to deal with an Amway distributor. He invited me to a meeting, (but never said it was Amway) and I almost went. The book he gave me to read talked about Amway, so I thought he probably was with the company. So after reading about all the "positives" of Amway in the book, I decided to see what the negatives were. So your page was the first one I saw and read. His tactics were exactly as you described. I've had experience with these pyramids before, so I'm sure I would have figured it out, but you saved me from all that trouble. I cancelled my reservation for the meeting immediately after that. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!
Subject: http://www.willynet.com/rglasser/index.html
Thu, 26 Mar 1998
Can you say in a few lines (instead of the tons of verbiage you've dumped
on your pages) what's wrong with becoming an Amway distributor? Quick,
I'm in the process of becoming one!
Subject: Re: http://www.willynet.com/rglasser/index.html
Thu, 26 Mar 1998
ERA WORDSWORTH COMMUNICATIONS (GOA) wrote:
>
> Can you say in a few lines (instead of the tons of verbiage you've dumped
> on your pages) what's wrong with becoming an Amway distributor? Quick,
> I'm in the process of becoming one!
A lot of people like reading the tons of verbiage. I did tell you you
can skip to the second page and read my direct thoughts about what the
major problems are. But if you don't even have the patience to read
that, then here's a quick summary -- with no arguments, statistics or
sources to back them up, but you can read those later if you choose.
1. 99% of distributors do not make money: they LOSE money. 99% of
those who do make money, make mediocre amounts that you could get at
your job. The success rate is guessed to be somewhere around 0.01%.
2. Contrary to what you heard, products are no bargain. Most are
overpriced. Do comparison shopping.
3. Going diamond doesn't mean "retiring in a few years." Diamonds work
their asses off, whereas a high proportion of people work the business
for decades without getting there.
4. By and large, money is not made off distributorships. It's made off
"the system" -- which means those tapes you've been listening to and
those meetings you've attended account for most of the profit those big
pins get.
5. Various aspects of the business have been compared to a cult,
including the way they worship their leaders, the way they discourage
members from acquiring outside information ("negative" thinking), and
the way they demand faith in the payoffs.
Subject: Your problem ... Thu, 26 Mar 1998 Sir See your problem is that you just didn't believe in your Up-line.... Remember, ..... In Your Up-line we Trust....... A Convert (Honest)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 26 Mar 1998 Hi, I just got a pitch from 2 Amway people that work with me (one coworker and someone from another department) and the only problem with their "tactic" was that one of my coworkers told me that the "great job opportunity" was Amway and then went on to explain it to me. She will probably get into trouble, but has saved me a lot of time. From her descripition I thought it was a pyramid and you have confirmed that to me. What I feel is sad is that this woman is married with two kids and has just moved to the U.S. Amway seems to play on people's hopes and dreams and that is awful. Thanks for the information and I am printing it for my co worker.
Subject: response to your silly Amway page
Thu, 26 Mar 1998
Greetings,
First of all, I have a question (and I don't mean this in a joking
manner).
Can you please tell me about another business opportunity, explain why it's
good, and explain (in terms of business), why it's better than an Amway
business? I'll be amazed if you can tell me, but would really appreciate
some information, if you actually DO have any to share. And now, I'd
like to comment on your "story".. I'll pick out some things that you said...
:
"Disclaimer: I am not in the Amway corporation, and I never signed up for it"
What? When you become an Amway distributor, you're not in the
Amway Corporation. If you're an EMPLOYEE of Amway, THEN you're in
the Amway Corporation.
"..I was attending Amway meetings and listening to Amway tapes for about
three weeks.. "
So, based on that, you know how EVERY Amway meeting is, and what's on
every tape? (not saying that you claimed you did, but
you made it sound like they're all the same.. that's FALSE)
"..attention-grabbing-yet-vague thing, attributed to a speaker named John
Sestina.."
Do you know who John Sestina is??? If you are more qualified
than this guy, in financial planning and management, I will be SHOCKED.
(if you really want to know, I'll tell you some of his accomplishments,
and
you can compare to your own).
"..No genuine information given yet.."
Either you didn't listen properly, or you're CLUELESS. I know which tape
you're talking about. Sestina explained why the job world is very
limited,
and how Amway fits the theoretical model of the "ideal business". And, he
DID use the word "Amway"..
"..When he saw that I didn't respond in the negative, that's when he
launched into the real sales pitch.."
I don't know what "Ted" told you, but it's not supposed to be a sales
pitch..
"..had some very convincing reasons why Amway WASN'T really a pyramid"
The FTC says that Amway is NOT a pyramid, if it's done properly (as in the
SA-4400). If it's a pyramid, then why are there people who make more
than their upline? Why is Bill Britt among the TOP Diamonds, when he
started over a DECADE after Amway started?
"..blah blah blah..."
Really? He said "blah blah blah" to explain the business? weird...
"That was to be my first Amway meeting. And what an experience it was!"
I personally have seen meetings that I didn't like at all, and other
meetings
that I enjoyed and found very helpful and informative. Amway meetings
are as diverse as the people themselves..
"..In my experience, there are two kinds of people in this world. People who
have excuses, and people who have money! You have an excuse to give me? You
keep it to yourself." And: "I say to people everywhere I go, 'If you're so
smart, why aren't you rich?'"
LOL.. I seriously doubt that's what he said. So basically, you misquoted
somebody, but are ridiculing them..
"..I soon realized that every single person in the room worshipped the ground
this man walked on, the primary (perhaps the only) reason being that he was
very rich.."
So, you KNOW what every single person in the room was thinking and
feeling??
"..Ted had really been scouting for new members rather than
striking up a conversation out of genuine interest in who I am and what I
do.."
Believe it or not, some distributors DO have a genuine interest in the
people. The whole thing about contacting, is that they're looking for people
to SHOW the plan to. You don't "get in" anybody; you're supposed to show
them the plan (honestly) and let them decide for themselves..
".. I was really hoping it would be free food, but they were all Amway's own
soap and detergent products.."
From a business point of view, it's very intelligent to market basic
commodities. And, Amway happens to be very strong in that. That's
why an Amway business is basically recession-proof..
"..In spite of everything I'd encountered in that meeting.."
Obviously the first impression of Amway comes from the
people you talk to and associate with. Too bad you met some weirdo's..
"..I could still enjoy the idea that in just a couple of years, "The Business"
would have earned me enough money to fund the start of my own company, and I
could spend my life writing games. I'd even hire my own actors and a team of
artists, without worrying about the money involved.."
If you start a traditional business, you'll have employees, legal hassles,
limited range of products, limited territory, MUCH higher start-up costs,
and you will plateau in time and in money much more easily..
"...Why are they cushioning their information in all this pompous talk..."
Frankly, I found your narrative a lot more pompous than anything I've heard
from Amway distributors (that I liked)..
"..They were all rich, super right-wing, fiftyish men and women who were in
every way identical to the speaker at the meeting.."
This is total BS. Again, you're generalizing based on a limited
experience,
and you're insulting people that you don't even know..
"..You must listen to at least one tape per day.."
Doesn't mean a different one everyday.
"..you must NEVER for a moment listen to naysayers who
try to talk you out of Amway. They are fools who don't understand the
system, they are failures who haven't made it, and if you give them the
slightest bit of credibility then they will destroy your chances of success.."
Again, this is your BS commentary. People have the right to listen to
whoever they want to listen to. But, they should use their common sense
too. If they are truly interested in building an Amway business, they
should
associate with people that they like, and that have achieved what they want
to achieve.. Take John Sestina for example. Do you honestly think people
should IGNORE his advice on business, and take YOUR'S?
"..I was bothered by the amount of time they said would be going into Amway"
ANY business takes time and money, especially in the beginning, but Amway
offers the chance to truly balance the two; in other words, leveraging
through business partners and creating RESIDUAL income, is the way to
accomplish that balance.. Amway is ONE way..
"..I was very unhappy at the prospect of never listening to rock music in my
car again because an Amway tape would always be running.."
That's one of the silliest comments in your narrative. There are 24 hrs in
a day; plenty of time to crank some songs on your stereo..
"..but what's wrong with making money the old-fashioned way?"
You mean, through a job? (I already told you the hassles with traditional
business). In a job, you are ALWAYS under the control of whoever pays
you. What's the biggest expense in a company? The employees. Sestina
made a rather amusing comment; it doesn't matter if you're the CEO; if you
don't OWN the company, you're an employee. So basically, if you're part
of the biggest expense, why would your bosses care about making you
financially successful? And, if you move up/make more money, somebody
else will have go the opposite direction or be cut out. A CEO will never
help
you become a CEO. And another thing: your time will plateau, so
therefore your income will plateau. IF you retire, you will have a very
tiny income, most likely losing whatever lifestyle you had. Also, income
in a job usually never even keeps up with inflation.
"..but would devoting my life to Amway give me the sense of ACCOMPLISHMENT
that I craved? Could I respect myself after getting rich off Amway?.."
Personally, I would respect myself if I secured my family financially and
provided a nice life for them, and had control of my time..
"..you get rich, then you help others become rich.".
NO, your volume is based on your personal use/sales, and your
downline's personal use/sales. The only way you have a large/long-term
income, is if your downline has a significant volume. For example, you can
only be Diamond, if at least six of your downline are each producing AT LEAST
$15,000 of volume.
"..People in Amway love each other so much, they're the best people
in the world. Did I know that the divorce rate among Amway couples was
1%?.."
I don't know what the heck you're talking about there..
"..wise sages in your upline.."
Diamonds just have more experience; there are no "sages", although,
many college-educated people are interested in Amway, including PhD's.
(not that college educated people are necessarily superior)
"..As I was learning, there were a number of ranks to be gained.."
Well, as you made obvious in your narrative, you didn't really
learn much. And, the "ranks" refer to different numbers of
directs in one's organization..
"..much easier to hire a hotshot young programmer who'll work for low pay
(like me!).."
I don't even need to comment here... lol.
"..then his income level would plummet and he'd have to give up his
lifestyle. But thank God he had Amway to save him!.."
What do you suggest, for maintaining income/lifestyle? It's not Amway
that saves people, but people's WORK in creating a secure, profitable
business. Amway merely offers a tremendous support that is almost
nonexistant in traditional businesses..
"..Also, this would be the second Tuesday in a row that I'd
been to a meeting, and I had a club on Tuesdays that I didn't like to miss so
many times.."
Nevermind Amway; you're saying that you would rather
go to clubs and listen to music, than to work on things to secure
your financial future???
"..They all could have been carbon copies of each other.."
This was YOUR experience, but is certainly not the case..
"..if Amway is good then the whole world should do it.."
What a silly comment!!! The only people who should "do it" are
people who have a strong ambition to build their own business and
secure their financial futures, and who like the Amway business..
Your "philosophical comments" on "everyone in the world signing
up", were sooo unbelievably silly, I don't even know what to say.
What DOES fit the "universal law"? What business, religion,
activity, etc.etc. tell me... (maybe sex is one thing..)
"..How can the tapes be wrong when you're supposed
to believe everything a Diamond says.."
You're not supposed to believe everything ANYBODY says.
"..Because they had become salesmen and saleswomen, not
just as a job but ALL THE TIME..."
The ones I met were NOT salespeople. And, they didn't do
it ALL THE TIME. Also, it's not a "job"..
".. Amway bankrupts people by forcing them to pay money for reeducation,
which profits no one except those at the
highest levels.."
Man, you're lucky that you didn't get in trouble for that. Amway
isn't the
problem. CERTAIN people in the business who are jerks, are the problem.
And, it's completely ignorant to say only those at the top make a profit.
There are people who started 10 years ago or less, and are Diamond
today. Raj Shah (former computer consultant) is just one example.
He totally contradicts the stereotypical Diamond too; he's a 37-year old
Indian Hindu man with a really smart, charming wife..
"..That Amway demands fundamental changes in your personality.."
Another clueless and insulting comment. If anyone, you should be
blaming Dale Carnegie and Napolean Hill... LOL..
"..Is it overreacting to think that Amway is an honest-to-god cult?.."
No, it's not just overreacting; it's silly and insulting..
If you're going to call Amway a cult, you should call
Christians a cult, and all other religions too.. (just for example)
"..Hey, the world wide web is a fantastic forum of
knowledge, and it's unique because everybody has a fair
chance to speak.."
EXACTLY; a financial expert can post information, and YOU can too!!
"...I was out. I knew in a moment that I would never join the Amway
corporation. But later that night I asked myself, was it enough? I was
developing this Lone Ranger complex, struck with the idea that I'd like to
make a difference in some people's lives. How could I do that? What would
you do if you were in my shoes?..."
Once again, YOU DON"T "Join Amway Corporation" when you
sign up!! That statement alone proves that you're clueless.
If you don't like it, FINE. Nobody is supposed to force people
into the business. But, stop spreading crap. Think about it:
you have no qualification in evaluating business, you have no
success in business (correct me if I'm wrong), you don't even
understand Amway, and appreciate it's quality in terms of
business. Also, you're not offering people an alternative,
and explaining why it's better than Amway. Considering all
these things, I think it's extremely irresponsible for you to have
put up that website. SURE, you can dig up dirt on Amway.
But, their positive accomplishments outweigh the negative.
No matter who you are or what you do, there's always
someone who causes embarrassment, because they
call themselves what YOU call yourself. This is certainly true
in Amway; certain jerks ruin it for others.
Why would someone like John Sestina praise the business,
and actually GET IN himself? Why would a Professor of
Economics at YALE say that Amway is a good business?
Why would the PRESIDENT OF THE US CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
say it's a good business? Because, if done properly, it IS
a good business, an excellent one at that. Well, I had some
time to kill, so this is how I did it... LOL.. you made your
comments, so I just felt like giving you mine.. PEACE..
Subject: Re: response to your silly Amway page
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
Your repeated comments about not being "in the corporation" are quite
correct: as you correctly pointed out, it is not the corporation that
brainwashes you and rips you off, but the organization and upline that
you join. I will go through and make those changes. Thanks for your
constructive criticism. :)
Most of what you wrote has been submitted to me so many times that I
probably answered all your questions on the "generic arguments" page.
Other than that, after plowing through the piles and piles of nitpicking
you ran me through, I only have one question: How much money did you
make from the business last month?
Subject: Re: response to your silly Amway page
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
"..Other than that, after plowing through the piles and piles of nitpicking
you ran me through, I only have one question: How much money did you
make from the business last month?.."
I'm not an Amway Distributor. Frankly, It is not only RUDE, but very
unprofessional for you to ask ANYONE how much money they made last month
And, don't you think it's obnoxious to ask that? (especially if somebody
has been building their business for only a few months or so).
But anyway, what many people don't realize is that an Amway business is a
PROCESS. Success depends on two things: work ethic, and consistently
maintaining that work ethic over some time. Obviously, Bill Britt didn't
become a millionaire after a few months. But he has worked consistently over
a long period of time. There are people in his downline that will eventually
pass him, based on their rate of growth. What you really should be asking
people is what they're DOING for their business, like how many plans they're
showing per week. Anyway, I did NOT simply do some "nitpicking"; I
found many of your comments to be downright false, or overreacting, or
generalizing. You made some really insulting comments against the
corporation, which was pretty risky, and silly considering that you were
overreacting. Also, you insulted people that you don't even know. But,
let me ask you again; can you please tell me about another business that's
better than Amway, and explain why it's better? If there's something
better, I'll DO IT (when I'm finally ready to start A business). I also
ask again, why are there financial experts who say that Amway is a good
business? Even John Sestina said though he believes Amway to be as close
as you can get to the "ideal business", if he finds something better, he
will SWITCH, and he will tell his entire organization to switch as well...
and this guy is Executive Diamond. Does that sound like a "brainwashed"
person? I am certainly NOT... I'm simply looking for a way to
create some real financial success and secure my family's future..
Subject: Re: response to your silly Amway page
Sat, 28 Mar 1998
You wrote:
>
> I'm not an Amway Distributor.
Well gee, Sean, I guess that would just about make you the most
hypocritical ass who has ever written to me.
Just think: practically every word you said to me in your first letter
hinged on the assumption that a person who is not an Amway distributor
can never know what Amway is all about, that a person who is not already
rich cannot be trusted to talk about money, and that everyone who makes
generalizations from specific cases is, ipso facto, a big fat liar. And
you have the chutzpah to call ME rude and insulting!
Imagine my complete SURPRISE and BEWILDERMENT, then (for you
humor-impaired folks, that's called sarcasm) when I found out that, not
only are YOU not a financial success in your Amway business, but you
don't even HAVE one. For someone who is not a distributor, you sure
seem to have an awful lot of accumulated knowledge about Amway and its
supporters. What am I to conclude about your background, then? That
you're a former distributor who quit after failing to make any money?
That you spent years analyzing how great the business was yet
mysteriously declined to get involved at all? That you're a distributor
for an entirely different MLM, one who is make such a pitifully low
income that he won't state what it is? Wait, I know! With the one note
song you sing about John Sestina in your letter (five separate
references to him)... you must BE John Sestina, trying to drum up
popularity for yourself!
Honestly John, I mean Sean, if you are going to feed me the standard
Amway bullshit about how listening to broke people will get you nowhere,
then why on earth should I listen to you? As far as I'm concerned, you
might as well be one of the 2,999,000 out of 3,000,000 world-wide Amway
distributors who ISN'T making the big bucks, most likely pulling less
than half the income out of their MLM as I do out of my job.
If you think you can discredit anyone by taking personal shots at their
business knowledge, then why don't I just turn around and ask you what
YOUR business credentials are that give you leeway to lecture me on the
best business opportunity in the world?
> Frankly, It is not only RUDE, but very
> unprofessional for you to ask ANYONE how much money they made last month
> And, don't you think it's obnoxious to ask that? (especially if somebody
> has been building their business for only a few months or so).
I most certainly do not think it's obnoxious to ask that; I don't fear
the question, in fact no one I know thinks it a rude question except MLM
distributors... and you know why MLMers get furious and riled up at the
mere mention of this question? Because nearly all of them either lose
money or make next to nothing.
And so, Mr. "Success and work ethics", I want you to tell me just how
many years you've examined and participated in MLM's, and how high your
success rate has been in them. Because if you are unwilling or unable
to do so, then by your own logic, your credibility is precisely zero.
> Anyway, I did NOT simply do some "nitpicking"; I
> found many of your comments to be downright false, or overreacting, or
> generalizing.
You most certainly DID "nitpick". You picked piles and piles of
sentence fragments out of my web site, treated obvious humor as if it
were literal history (eg, "blah blah blah"), and repeatedly called me a
liar for quoting items word for word as I heard them (FYI, "If you're so
smart, why aren't you rich" WAS a direct quote from the first speaker;
and the John Sestina tape I heard DID NOT use the word "Amway", which
means you must have heard a different Sestina tape).
Even the one point I credited you with being correct on, the bit about
distributors not "joining the Amway corporation", was a genuinely absurd
nitpick. When you sign up to be a distributor, you are becoming part of
a group that sells products made by Amway. You are licensing the right
to sell Amway products and buying an Amway kit -- and by joining Amway's
sales force you are thereby joining the Amway corporation. To say that
this statement makes me "clueless" is quite honestly grasping at straws.
> Can you please tell me about another business that's
> better than Amway, and explain why it's better?
Yes. Go to Las Vegas and play craps until you lose all your money.
Your odds are better there. You may think I am being facetious when I
say that, but I'm not. In this case it is not a question of a good or
better business opportunity: it is a question of a sucker's bet
masquerading as a business. In craps the odds are slightly more than
50% that you'll lose money. In Amway, the odds are about 100 to 1.
Now please don't write back unless it's to tell me how successful you
are or were in Amway or the MLM of your choice. Otherwise, go away and
I'll get back to writing computer programs for 50 to 100 grand per year,
investing 10% of my income in stocks each month, and letting the
retirement money build.
Subject: Re: response to your silly Amway page
Sat, 28 Mar 1998
Once again, you overreacted and exagerrated..
"...Just think: practically every word you said to me in your first letter
hinged on the assumption that a person who is not an Amway distributor
can never know what Amway is all about, that a person who is not already
rich cannot be trusted to talk about money, and that everyone who makes
generalizations from specific cases is, ipso facto, a big fat liar. And
you have the chutzpah to call ME rude and insulting!... "
I never said that only an Amway distributor can know and understand
Amway. Dr. Gerald Jaynes, PhD is a professor of Economics at
YALE, and he thinks Amway is a good opportunity. He's NOT in it..
I never called you a big liar; I simply disagreed with many of the
statements you made. I never said that only rich people can be trusted to
talk about
money. My definition of "rich" is someone who has financial control and
security, and has plenty of time to enjoy life and WHATEVER they want
to do. Naturally, if people want that, they must study people who've got
it
and know how to get it.
"..For someone who is not a distributor, you sure seem to have an awful lot of
accumulated knowledge about Amway and its supporters. What am I to conclude
about your background, then?.."
I think it's a great business; the best overall that I've seen, so I've
attended
meetings, listened to some good tapes, and talked to many distributors. I
never actually started myself. I'm not ready to do so, because I'm still
in school right now..
"..With the one note song you sing about John Sestina.."
The reason I mentioned Sestina, is that he's the best speaker I heard.
And most importantly, his accomplishments in the field of financial
planning and management are such that there's no way you can
intelligently just ignore him or talk as if he doesn't know what he's
talking about. You didn't give him and others enough credit..
".. the standard Amway bullshit about how listening to broke people will get
you nowhere, then why on earth should I listen to you? As far as I'm
concerned, you might as well be one of the 2,999,000 out of 3,000,000 world-
wide Amway distributors who ISN'T making the big bucks, most likely pulling
less than half the income out of their MLM as I do out of my job.."
Standard Amway bullshit? I'm NOT giving people advice. People should
take financial advice from financial EXPERTS. Neither of us are. Sestina
for example, DEFINETLY is (to say the least), and he's not the only one
that
praises Amway..
"..turn around and ask you what YOUR business credentials are that give you
leeway to lecture me on the best business opportunity in the world?.."
Once again, I am NOT giving people advice. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
you are trying to do so. Trying to turn people off from Amway, when you
don't even understand/appreciate it's quality as a business and when there are
experts who disagree with you. And, you didn't realize the point that
success in Amway depends on work ethic and amount of time maintaining that.
If you look at people who do what they're supposed to do to succeed, then the
success rate is good. Obviously, it's low if you include EVERYBODY who's
signed up..
"..treated obvious humor as if it were literal history (eg, "blah blah blah"),
and repeatedly called me a liar for quoting items word for word as I heard
them.."
I was being sarcastic TOO!! But humor or not, you undoubtedly made some
really offensive, generalized, and even false comments. It's too bad your
first impression came from a bad speakers. that sux..
"..When you sign up to be a distributor, you are becoming part of
a group that sells products made by Amway.."
The Publix supermarket sells Tide. Who makes Tide? Proctor and Gamble.
Does that mean that Publix is IN Proctor and Gamble? They sell so many of
their products. Amway distributors don't work FOR Amway, but MARKET Amway
products, and also have the right to market products from other companies.
Why would other major companies want to do business with or associate at all
with Amway, if Amway stinks?
"..In this case it is not a question of a good or better business opportunity:
it is a question of a sucker's bet masquerading as a business. In craps the
odds are slightly more than 50% that you'll lose money. In Amway, the odds
are about 100 to 1.."
Once again, there are people who are MUCH more qualified and successful
then either of us, who would disagree with your statement. The FTC and the
Better Business Bureau recognize Amway as a legitimate business (if it's done
properly). And, as for the odds, you can't say the odds are 100 to 1.
It obviously depends on what a person does for their business..
"..Otherwise, go away and I'll get back to writing computer programs for 50 to
100 grand per year, investing 10% of my income in stocks each month, and
letting the retirement money build.."
I do not want to insult peoples' jobs, and if you're happy with yours,
that's
good. But, in your job, you have no control over your money and time.
Your income is linear, it doesn't have a huge growth potential and often it
doesn't even grow with inflation. And, what's keeping you from getting
laid off?
How long will it take you to retire?
Anyway, we both made our points, so let's end this ping-pong game.
I just wish you had gotton a better impression of the business..
Ah yes, the old "We're both idiots, but I agree with Bob and Bob's not an idiot, so since Bob can't join the argument we'll consider it closed" trick. Followed up by the old "I'm ending this discussion right now after I got the last word because I'm more mature than you are" trick. It's an indefensible one-two punch. Unless, of course, you own the web page, and decide to be completely IMmature by sneakily throwing in a final sarcastic comment that the other guy can't reply to.
Nanny nanny boo boo, who has the last word now?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 26 Mar 1998
I thought I had to comment after reading an incredibly interesting story
about Amway. I didn't really have time to read the whole thing, but I
did anyway. I haven't been 'prospected' but know of someone who has
been entangled by Amway. I was just trying to find out some information
about it. Truly amazing. Thanks for the story.
Question - I was wondering about other products...Tupperware, Shackley,
etc. and how they compare to Amway and MLMarketing. Would you have to
have any info.?
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
Dave Steiner wrote:
>
> Question - I was wondering about other products...Tupperware, Shackley,
> etc. and how they compare to Amway and MLMarketing. Would you have to
> have any info.?
>
I have no comments on the products themselves; however, for a broader
look at Multi-Level Marketing than I have given here, I highly recommend
you take a look at the following site:
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 26 Mar 1998
Hello
I surfed upon your web page. It would seem that you have spent a great
deal of time in Amway bashing! Is this a passion or hobby? At any rate
sorry to hear of your bad experience. I was in Amway several years ago. I
spent money to go to functions & buy books & tapes. My Amway business never
grew ! But I did !!! I firmly believe that I would not be where I am today
if it were not for the positive input that I received during my "Amway
days".
It is a shame that even the very best of things can be twisted &
perverted by some people. It would seem that you were approached by someone
that was overzealous & focused upon themselves & not in what they could
offer you. I still have several friends that are in Amway ( doing
disgustingly well ) that are quite the roll model for my teenager. They are
good Christians & fine people, I hate to see them bashed as a group !!! The
group is not the culprit, it's those individuals that mislead or
misrepresent themselves & the marketing plan.
As for my Amway business not growing, Amway didn't fail, you cant fail
if you don't try. I was to intimidated by people to get out & show "the
marketing plan" to anybody. My experience with Amway was quite positive,
and that must be the case with a lot of people because there are a lot of
people still in "the business". It seems a bit pretentious of you to put
them all down because of your experience. You seem to be judging the whole
group on the actions of a few.
I should have stayed in & worked at it, a few of my friends have become
quite wealthy, and I know that I could do what they did.
Best wishes to you & yours.
Subject: Amway Fri, 27 Mar 1998 Russell, I read with interest your account of The Amway Story. I have two very good friends who have gotten heavily involved with Amway in the past year. They have very little time left for friendships right now and have pretty much said that that part of their lives is on hold until they can make this Amway thing work. In reading your story I was amazed out how much the dialogue was the same as what I have heard from them, especially the term "the business". Also, how much time they spend in meetings and going out of state for rally's. I was not aware of the all the costs involved. When visiting at their home I have seen piles of tapes and have wondered about them. You answered alot of my questions there as well. Thanks for writing it. I felt relieved and validated but also very sad at the same time.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
Russell,
My name is ****, and I am a police officer for the city of St.
Charles, MO. A couple of days ago a friend of mine asked me to sit in
on a meeting with an old school friend of his, because the guy was
supposed to show him some info on a "distribution company." When the
guy arrived, he immediately began to buddy up to me, which I don't like
anyway, then asked me what i do for a living. When I told him I was a
cop, he became very nervous.
He went into his speal to my buddy, saying that he was from a company
called "World Wide Distribution." He wrote down a bunch of figures on a
piece of paper, talking fast and basically trying to confuse us with the
numbers, and excite my friend with the "massive income potential" he was
trying to push.
When he was finished, he brought in his little sample box, and lo and
behold, it was all Amway!!
My question to you is, is the World Wide Distribution name something
new to try to cover up the Amway scam or what? I would be interested in
hearing your opinion. I will be calling my friend today to warn him to
stay away. The guy is supposed to be having one of those speakers over
at his house tonight.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 28 Mar 1998 BRAVO! I was captivated by your writing style. You should be an author. Add murder to the plot line and you've got a great book! Thanks for taking the time.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Fri, 27 Mar 1998
Russell.
Im not saying that Amway is a Perfect business, because it is made
up of people (as we all know people are not perfect). As in any
business, there are some jerks in Amway just as there are in your place
of employment, people with small, predjudicial minds learn to stereo-
type groups by the action of a few. Some of the letters that are
received and posted by you have no credability whatsoever. Sounds to me
like a lot of the letters are received by other multilevel "business
men" who are concerned about Amway as some sort of threat. I've read
letters from "Amway reps" (there are no "reps" in Amway), other ML's
call themselves reps (ooops)! And as for people losing all this money
in Amway, these "intelligent" folks should consider using the buy back
options for all support tools and products. The descrepancies of REAL
facts continue. Russell, thanks for printing this letter on your page.
P.S. Amway is not for those who expect things to be given to them,
its not a charity business, its not for those who are obessed with what
others think of them. Sorry folks, its not a perfect world.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 28 Mar 1998 Hi, my name is **** from Venezuela, i learn our yours, here is yours representans and me liked very much, please send me informatios of yours but im latin i speak spanish..... ok
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 28 Mar 1998 I came across your page purely by accident and read it all with complete fasination. Having been involved with my x-wife in Amway for a short period of time some 15 years ago, I am quite familiar with the details of what goes on within. I write this only to say that I think you have done a valuable service to prospects who are smart enough to do a little research before allowing themselves to be swept up in the Amway flood. It didn't take me long to figure that Amway was not for me and a little longer for my x-wife because she didn't want to admit that she was being used. The things that I hated most were those damn tapes and the upline attitude that if you're not with us, you're doomed to a life of failure. My biggest regret besides being sucked in was that I was instrumental in sucking in 3 or 4 other people. Truely, it is a cult! Heres wishing you much success in what ever you do.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 29 Mar 1998 Russell - Excellent page. You are a far better writer than most programmers I work with, BTW. Have you ever tried selling any short stories or articles? I can honestly say I have never been "prospected" by Amway. Both my brother and his wife were distributors back in the 70s, before much of the nonsense got started - my sister-in-law made a reasonable amount of money SELLING THE PRODUCTS. That's rare now, but it was possible then. They dropped it when the pressure to recruit friends and family, buy tools, etc. began to mount. I have been approached by other organizations, prospecting for new recruits in exactly the manner you described: the Children of God for one, David Koresh's organization for two. Except for the suits, the technique and the fervor and the implications of "opportunities lost forever" were stikingly similar. For the fervor, including suits, furs, and Rolexes - try any of the Southern California Evangelical churches. In my few excursions into their realm, invited by friends and family, I heard enough materialism and greed to fill a prime-time soap opera. and if the good htings weren't being deliverd by the Almighty, it's because you didn't pray enough or believe enough ... lack of success was due to character flaws, not the market model. No, I don't know what invisible ink tattoo I have on my forehead that attracts these people! It apparently repels Amway and attracts religious fanatics.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 29 Mar 1998 Hello. Just a quick note, have you heard of International Heritage Incorporated? It is unfortunate when Multi Level Marketing companies create a bad image for those companies who strive to make people sucessful. If you have a few minutes check out IHI through the toll free [OBNOXIOUS SELF-PROMOTION DELETED]
Subject: Amway page.. Sun, 29 Mar 1998 Just wanted to thank you for sharing your experience regarding the Amway business. They helped me to make my decision of whether or not to join. I'm looking forward to reading the rest of Ginny's story.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Sun, 29 Mar 1998
Mr Glasser,
I've really enjoyed reading your tales, I used them to try to convince a close
friend not to do Amway, but alas, $2000 and a year later, he had to learn the
hard way.
Now there seems to be a new MLM scheme promising to be "different" from the
rest, called Big Planet www.bigplanet.com. They use the *exact* same
terminology and techniques (including these famed "partnerships" with
prominent companies) as Amway.
My question to you is have you seen or heard of any criticism of Big Planet?
I'm immune to the MLM infection, but I've got another friend who seems really
excited about Big Planet, and I haven't yet been able to dissuade him.
Any tips?
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Sun, 29 Mar 1998
Charles,
No, I haven't heard anything about Big Planet; in fact I rarely look
into any information about specific MLMs. For a more general criticism
of the MLM industry as a group, I recommend that you take a look at
www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
There's a reason that every new MLM claims to be "different" from all
other MLMs, and that's because MLM in general has a well-earned
reputation for ripping people off.
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 30 Mar 1998 Hello, I live in Baltimore Maryland and have to say one thing, Amway has educated me well in sales. Well really I never "signed up" to be a "dealer" however we used to go to the presentation to listen to the "Masters Of Bull." I felt sorry for the folks that sunk their dreams into Amway. I knew that the idea of Amway is get as many people working under you so that the $75.00 min. purchases add up to good cash flow for you! Any one that claims to be a "Emerald" has proved to me that he/she has a total lack of ethics. I used to go to the "Master Pitch" presentaion all the time. As a matter of fact, they got so used to seeing me they thought I was a dealer. I like the be your own travel agent scam the best. Or the classic line "Coke" has hired us to market thier best new product........ The Break Machine...... remember that one. Yeah what a Great Product LOL. Amway should stick to door to door shampoo sales!! Atleast the shampoo was not that bad. But the idea of you can " move up " in the company is crazy. You dont Move Up in Amway it moves Out!! Everytime you get better so does everyone on top of you. However, you just made life living hell for someone on the bottom!!! Well in closing, I am a debt collector. I earn my money everyday. I have spoke to alot of people with credit problems due to Amway. I mean how do you list Amway on an application for a job or a resume?? You DON"T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subject: amway Mon, 30 Mar 1998 Hey, I read your colemn and seriously believe what you are trying to say. The problem I have is my brother is being entrapped into this scheme also. I would love for you to send me the brochers that you made up so I may show him. I personally have been to 2 free meetings and in the second one I physically threatened the gentleman giving the "sermon". But my brothers claims I just dont understand it but you know where I'm coming from..
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Mon, 30 Mar 1998
Hi Russell,
Way to go!!! I wish I had the guts to tell off Amway people like you
did!! (your plan worked well) I think your website is a good way to warn
people about the Amway business. I had to struggle to say no to a friend
couple (well, so I thought), and I have to say that I felt obligated to
say yes (but finally I didn't), I felt uncomfortable, and to tell the
truth, I don't know if I should trust them anymore. I realized that they
only cared about my goals because of their own interest. One of my
friends, and friend of theirs too (she went through the same thing),
somehow read one of their books that explains (and you already explained
most of it too) everything from what to say if a prospect says this or
that to what to do if he/she simply says no. It made me mad that they
are not supposed to push anymore, and not to lose that person as a
"friend" because he/she could always be a future client (we are only
prospect distributors or clients in the eyes of Amway people).Everything
they talked to me about was by the book. I felt deceived by my so-called
friends. Not only because they never revealed what was the business
called on the phone (to build curiosity), but because I was dragged to
one of those cult-like conferences whithout knowing about it when I went
to visit them that weekend! I could not call that weekend a fun one and
I really hated it! I was so tired I just didn't want to stay there! I
didn't know what the conference was about until I got there! And of
cousre, the pressure of joining Amway, you know it, went on. I gave them
my unconditional friendship, and they didn't. "If you join Amway we will
visit you more often", they told me. What, if I don't join you won't? I
thought. That made me think of those emerald, diamonds, etc. that
succeeded, and the people that wrote wonderful things about amway in
their respose to your website, and every Amway working person, doesn't
care about anybody just themselves and only have ambition to succeed no
matter if they step on the people that trust them and care for them, not
giving a crap for nobody but of course.. Amway and themselves. I really
feel sorry for them if they think Amway is the only means to have
financial future. If those people tell me I'm a loser, well why? because
I'm not so greedy like them? Because I want a higher degree and don't
care of using Amway products? or because I'm not a salespeple and
therefore not agressive like them? I have many joys in life, not
necessarily financially, and if financial "freedom" is their thing,
there are other ways of achieving besides using their loved ones. There
is no difference between this business and a pyramid one. You use the
newcomers to climb to the top. You use your family, relatives, and
friends to have your dreams come true. You are not honest. You have to
do hiddeous things. You have to become their slave and not buy anything
else other than amway. It is a shame how well brain-washed these people
are because I also think it is a cult. They dragg you by feeding up your
hopes and "their" values of becoming a better person, mostly christian,
and the only way is Amway's. They sing like in a church! They get you
high! My god! I can't believe I actually went to one of those things! I
wish I could tell this couple about all this. But is it worth it? They
were never completelly honest with me anyways. I trully feel they will
eventually loose all their friends if they already didn't. Keep your
site up!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 30 Mar 1998 As a person who has been seriously looking at joining Amway, I would like to thank you for putting your story on the net. Thankfully you have answered all my niggling demons(doubts) and I have now made up my mind thanks to you,(The answer is I will not be an Amway distributor).
Subject: LIVING HELL Mon, 30 Mar 1998 Dear Sir: It's been a living hell, more like a living nightmare. You know I am really scared of these Amway people, they are capable of anything. On or about the 3rd week of August 1996, I informed my roommate, landlord and my AMWAY sponsor that I will be moving out on 1st of Sept. due to the pressure he was putting on me to go out and look for people to join AMWAY. He promised the he would stop pressuring me if I stayed, then suddenly on the 13th of Sept. he locked me out claiming that I owed him $1,000.00 which was to be paid in cash. I have since demanded several times a copy of the phone bill, and I have been ignored. In the hopes of settling this issue, and getting my things back I paid the $1,000.00 though I had never been given a chance to review the phone bill. It's been two months now that I paid him his money, he has refused to give me back my things and he has kept the money. His AMWAY sponsor called my job three times now, to threaten me to stop demanding my thing or he will use AMWAY influence in my company (Xerox) to fire me from my job. Enclosed are the letters his demands and threats. I have never done drug and I never will. APPLE POWER MAC 6115 CD, ZIP DRIVE, HP JET WRITER, $4000.00 WORTH OF SOFTWARE, OAKLAND A's MEMORABLIA, ALL MY COLTHING that I have accumulated over the part 15yrs,GRAND MOTHER'S PICTURES, TWO BIKES, WEDDING, BIRTHMARK RINGS, TWO WATCHES WORTH. I have since written to the founders of AMWAY, his sponsors and several other people in KEVIN BRABEC'S AMWAY line of sponsorship, everybody is giving me the silent treatment. I will send the scanned letters later OR E MAIL ME your postal addy so that I can send the letters. PLS. YOU HAVE GOT TO HELP ME Subject: Re: LIVING HELL Tue, 31 Mar 1998 I don't know what I can say about your situation. I've forwarded your letter to some friends of mine, some of whom are lawyers. You may be hearing from them soon.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Tue, 31 Mar 1998
After reading your article I sent the following e-mail to the person who
was "going" to sponsor me.
..............................................................................................................
Below is a website that has convinced me that Amway is absolutely not
for me. I have always felt something strange about the meetings and the
pitch that I've hear many times. I wish you the best of luck, but as for
me, I have no further interest in Amway and will never contact any of my
friends or attend another meeting. I will however use the products that
I have purchased. It turns out that my gut feeling was right the first
meeting I ever went to.
.............................................................................................................
I did get suckered for the $150.00 kit but that is the last money they
will ever get from me.
I had been approached by a co-worker who took me to a couple of
meetings. I felt the same way as you did, I didn't like any of these
people, they all seemed to be cloned, but I gave them the benefit of the
doubt. I got the same feeling I did over twenty years ago when I neively
went to a Scientology meeting. The feeling was, "something is not right
here".
The tapes just reinforced the feeling that these people feel they are
superior, worship money and feel that everyone that is not in Amway is a
looser, which means the majority of the world.
I do however feel somewhat foolish that as someone who makes their
living on the "web", that I hadn't taken the time to check them out.
>From your site and others I have confirmed what my gut was telling me.
Anway? Noway!
Thanks!
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3)
Wed, 01 Apr 1998
> I did get suckered for the $150.00 kit but that is the last money they
> will ever get from me.
>
The Amway Business Compendium says that you are entitled to a full
refund within 180 days of purchase. In practice you may find it hard to
collect from your sponsor, but you should definitely look this rule up,
call Amway, and badger your sponsor about it.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 31 Mar 1998 I find your home page design very nice but I feel "in my humble opinion" you have given out an abundance of opinions not facts regarding Amway. I have been in it for some time, am enjoying a regular life with my friends and family, making money not riches and find that some of the items you discuss are insulting. I have and am having a great time and yes it has changed my life in so much that I am not wasting my time in front of a computer (over the 8 hours I already sit in front of it... or tv screen. Of course, as I said that is my opinion. You have come off in your web page and in your links as "experts". Also, your counter showing how many people have viewed this page is misleading to the novice computer user... it has been viewed not necessarily presumed to be factual. Again, if I wanted to hire someone to design my websites for my other businesses, I would recommend you but as a business management consultant, I would have to say that you are only opinionated not knowledgeable. Thanks for the diversity though because everything in this world needs to have both sides open to discussion.
Subject: Your Amway story
Wed, 01 Apr 1998
I just finished reading your amway web pages, and so far they are the
most well-written & insightful that I have found in my research.
You see, my girlfriend had just been roped into her first Amway meeting,
and she came back very excited about the prospect of saving money &
possibly making money on "products that you would buy anyway". I was
quite skeptical about the saving money part, because in my past research
I have found that for some reason, ALL multi-level marketing companies,
no matter how legitimate, sell products that are more expensive than
what you could buy from the stores. Why this is, I am not sure,
especially since these companies all stress that they save you money by
cutting out the middle man. But expensive products make it difficult to
sell the plan to anyone else without resorting to strongarm tactics,
which is exactly why I can't stand salesmen and did not want my
girlfriend to turn into one. I decided to do some snooping on the web to
find out what people had to say about Amway when I came across your
page...
When I showed her what you had to say about your first meeting, she
laughed because she went through almost all of the same things- the
empty-of-content inspirational speeches, the "do you want to meet the
speaker- It's a once in a lifetime opportunity" spiel, the Amway
literature that slickly sidesteps giving you any real information, the
upline-worshipping dogma, etc. Thank you for providing people with a
candid, well-written resource (which was incidently very very funny,
too)- I'm sure it has saved many people from unwittingly getting sucked
into the "Amway Borg Collective".
p.s. Queensryche does rock... I saw them on the Mindcrime tour and they
blew me away!
Subject: Re: Your Amway story
Wed, 01 Apr 1998
You wrote:
>
> I was
> quite skeptical about the saving money part, because in my past research
> I have found that for some reason, ALL multi-level marketing companies,
> no matter how legitimate, sell products that are more expensive than
> what you could buy from the stores. Why this is, I am not sure,
> especially since these companies all stress that they save you money by
> cutting out the middle man.
Quote from my introduction:
"Amway's explanation of why their prices are cheaper is this: Normally
when you buy things, they come from manufacturers who sell them to
retailers who sell them to you. The retailers must make their own
profits, so they charge something like a 30% markup for everything you
buy. Amway "cuts out the middleman" and lets you buy items "wholesale."
So when you buy stuff, you pay less because you're not paying the
retailer. Since Amway sells many many products which you need in your
everyday life (they proudly trumpet their affiliation with such
corporate giants as Coca-Cola and MCI), you save money on almost
everything you buy.
"The argument sounds good on paper, except for one problem. Amway IS
the retailer. You buy products through Amway, and they deliver them to
your door. Not only is delivery not cheap, but the 30% which you "save"
is poured right back into the company in order to pay bonuses to you and
other distributors."
A further comment: a typical distributor can typically have anywhere
around ten or twenty people in their upline. EACH upline person gets a
small piece of the action on every purchase. Now, do you still wonder
why the products are overpriced?
Subject: amway Wed, 1 Apr 1998 I went to an Amway meeting on Monday night, In Worcestershire England. Its exactly how you described. Men In Business Suits.... Questions answered with questions, or not fully, a tape that did not tell you anything than you already knew. There were successfull people there that had got rich by Amway, or at least they lead you to believe that. One Bloke (a Diamond) was like a magnet. Everyone was around him. Certain questions I asked where answered very well, When I ponted out that I could sell The Concept, and have loads of people working for me without ever selling anything, I was told that I need to sell things as part of my training. One bloke I had travelled with had paid £59 $90 to go to a meeting, He got a bit pissed off when I told him, I could find loads of prospective sponsers on the internet and I'd make a load of money, He told me i'll have to give all my ideas of selling and all prospective sponers to my leader, so they could have them? To my advantage, I am very spiritual and the whole thing FELT wrong, Body language don't count but Auras, they are slightly different, I could not see auras on some (usually a sign of evil in laymans terms). The diamond geezer could have sold refridgerators to the Eskimo's. The concept of everybody getting rich is a brilliant idea, it looks like a socialists dream, however like you said I have 6, people they have 6 people and they each have four people, thats lots of people 144? Its just a cult who Brainwash individuals who feel as if they don't want to be gullable. It might work for some people, I might find 6 people who in turn find others. It might make me rich and I cannot see the moral implications and think that everybody can be rich, I would be just lucky in this case. So it possibly can work for the Leaders, but you have to work hard and bullshit a bit, but as far as I am concerned I dont think it'd work for me.... Thanks for your insight.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 01 Apr 1998 I have been watching your page to see if there's an update to your girlfriend's story, especially having to do with the car crash. Will there be an update soon ? I am curious to see if anyone has had a similar experience to mine -- please don't print this.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 02 Apr 1998 WoW! You can bet many more of us have had similar experiences. You will never make this mistake again, not with this company or any other. Be careful though. There are many other companies, that claim they "are not Amway", but they use the same Gestapo tactics. Thanks for the info.
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