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Subject: your page Wed, 29 Apr 1998 WOW, I read your page on the "Amway" scam and could not believe how you hit them "On The Mark". After being an Amway distributor for 2 years (and spending thousands of dollars on books, tapes, rally's and seminars) we finally packed it in. That was in 1989 and have never regretted it. However, You must realize that there are Legitimate Network Marketing opportunity's out there. The idea of network marketing totally makes sense, but, like you mentioned, most company's Do Not make there money from products, but make it off of the support materials. Keep in mind, that the true opportunity's actually totally depend on timing in the marketplace and also what i call the "Saturation Level". I have found the best scenario for Network Marketing, and no, I am not trying to recruit you, I already have enough distributors to keep me busy, and as you can see, I believe in having a life, there is more to life than just money & "Stuff". Here's my scenario for a successful network marketing opportunity.
...which, coincidentally, probably describes the exact circumstances of the MLM you're about to try to sell me! Imagine that.
Should I go for the ol' censor stamp? Nah... go ahead and have your fun.
1. The fastest growing and 17th largest company in JAPAN
I didn't want to get involved with anything new.
2. Products that everybody needs but few if any have
3. I wanted to be one of the first in the United States, the largest market
in the world
4. You could make a six figure income the first year (Without having to give
your life to the
company or anything "cultist")
5. Any support materials etc. would have to be at actual cost. I don't like
the idea of having a
business in a business.
6. The ability of actually having an intelligent conversation with the top
leaders on a one on one
basis. Not, the amway approach of the top leaders being "King" where
only his top few could
talk to the big guy
7. The products must help people, and not vitamins
8. I wanted a company to handle all the paperwork, shipping and returns
9. I did not want to be front loaded and have a garage filled up with there
products.
10. There must be "Instant Income", Example: My 21 year old son became a
distributor and his
first week in the business made $500.00 profit, and sponsored 2 other
distributors. When you
have a great product people talk about it.
11. There must be total honesty in the company and the marketing plan, I'll
take honesty over hype
any day.
And yes, the above opportunity does exist, but it is not for everybody.
Fortunately, this company also has a lot of rules, one of which prohibits me
from mentioning the company's name on the internet. If it didn't, the
opportunity would be crushed by distributors making promises that they can
or can not deliver.
To succeed in Network Marketing you must have Tenacity, Guts and a Clear
Vision of what you truly expect your business to bring you.
Ooooohh, a *secret* MLM! I'm impressed! This company obviously has such a bad reputation that you can't even print their name in a LETTER!
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 29 Apr 1998 oh, I also forgot to mention that I was a computer programmer by trade, Love computers and have 5 pentiums on a peer to peer network in my house (The only way to play video games), but I took up network marketing because my favorite hobbie became a nightmare as a regular job. I had 10 employees with a bunch of business contracts for support. Made good money, but a major headache. Especially when networks go down in the middle of the night because of some asshole. Hope you find a good job
Subject: Amway Story Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Russell, I read your story. Sounds like you had a bad experience alright. Not going to disagree with alot of what you said because as a distributor in Canada, I've had a lot of the same thoughts. The tapes -- have to agree although there are alot of other people outside Amway that spread the same message. The books -- have to disagree, most of the books are written independently. Some even before the founding of Amway and the message could be good for people in any business (authors like Covey, Carnigie, Denis Waitley, Og Mandino....) I also have to disagree about your zero-sum game theory for now... but I'll give it some serious thought. It has been interesting and I appeciate your candidness on the fact that alot of your story is opinon.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 30 Apr 1998 Hi! I came across your story while surfing the net. My husband and I were approached a few years ago by a friend and her "leader" who waved a stack of cash and gave us the whole pitch, until I stopped him and asked if this was amway. Of course he hesitated and began to talk figures and big money and big homes etc.etc. I am happy to say that we got the hell out of there.Well, unfortunately about 5 months ago my older and wiser (I used to think) brother and his wife, and two very small children fell for it. They have no money to begin with,took out a second mortgage on a house that was payed for and now this. They claim their life has changed, they talk about their "business" and are always travelling all around for these meetings. I am so dissappointed in my big brother, he truly believes he will be rich. What do I do????????? Your story is full of good facts and proof and I am still continuing my internet investigation of the amway SCAM>>>>> Thanks for your story and thanks for listening... From Toronto Canada
Subject: Amway Fri, 01 May 1998 I am very sorry for your experience with the people you came involved with working the Amway Business. Unlike you, my experiences have been very positive. Maybe it was the people and not the business? I hope you find something that you are truely happy with!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 2 May 1998 Russell, Thanks for sharing your Amway experiences. You have a definite knack for storytelling. I arrived at this page while performing a search on multi-level-marketing. MLM is a term that I hadn't even heard about until about three days ago. I visited a site tat contained an advertisement.for a company called Streamline and I contacted the webmaster, Stefan, about the opportunity and he suggested that we have an online chat on the matter. Stefan told me that Streamline paid commissions made off of the sale of vitamin piils. As long as I paid for the pills every month, I'd get a commission from my downlines, who would also be purchasing the pills and getting commissions for their downlines and so on. And I would be sure to have downlines even if I did nothing because of some kind of automatic system for issuing downlines to members. So no matter what, I'd be making profits in a few months. He said he'd been with Streamline for two months and he was already making a small profit (btw, he has his first four checks online for all to see). He even went so far as to say that he thought he could retire now if he wanted to because the commissions from his dowmlines would just keep doing all the work for him. I'm pretty skeptical on the whole, and I thinkt the guy was being honest in his statements, mainly because he didn't seem to have a very polished technique like any respectable con man would. He threw out what seemed to me a lot of statisitical rhetoric and promising projections about how much money was possible. It was all pure rote. He also threw out terms like "upline", "downline", and "MLM" like I already knew what they meant, whereas a true grifter would've been holding my hand, taking me through the stages, and in general acting very "mentorish" (like your pal Ted). I mulled it all over for a day-and-a-half (I'm unemployed and I have to consider every prospect) and today I chatted with him again. I asked him how profit could be made if everyone who is purchasing the product is also collecting revenues. The best you could do in this situation is break even, and that would require that Streamline not take a cut. He didn't seem to grasp my question, and started throwing out the figures again. Finally, I got my point across and his answer was "I really hadn't thought about it like you did." At this point I realized that regardless of how honest the guy was (or wasn't), he was more rube than con man and would not be a good benchmark of Streamline's integrity one way or the other. As for the chance that this is just a scam to sell me books, tapes, and other "in-house" services, Stefan said that he wasn't paying for anything extra. I've been entertaining the possibility that the vitamin sales do not serve as revenue, but as capital for other ventures. I'd appreciate any thoughts you might have to share. Thanks again for the site. Btw, the site in question is at http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/a2zfreenet/page2.html Take care
Subject: amway
Sun, 03 May 1998
Dear Russel, It looks from your story that the Amway corporation is
doing something that is not right. For your information, I have been a
distributor since 1995 and I found that the Amway marketing plan is
workable, open to everybody who want to be successful. I have climbed
the level from the 6% on the first month to 21% in less than 2 years.
The income I have earned is very encouraging. My income exceed more than
5,000.00 Malaysian per month. I also found this business is vey
legitimate as I am able to help others to achieve their dreams.
If what you claim is true, how could the business can increase
yearly. The figures shows the worldwide business turnover has surpassed
USD 7 billion. If it is a fraud business how could many millions of
customers buying this very high quality product and keep on buying?
There are so many good things I can talk for Amway. Perhaps you have
not thoroughly understood the genuinity of the plan and the product. I
am willing to help you should you need better qualification. Please join
the world of Amway and attend the trainings provided and get the best of
it.
thanks for reading my comments. If need furthur clarification I will be
able to help you.
Subject: thank you Sun, 03 May 1998 I want to thank you for your page. i too am being pitched by amway and thought it was a good idea untill i read your page. Your page has helped me to open my eyes to a lot of things. I too was told to take notes (I had no idea what to take notes on). I was told that I was bright and intelligent (I wondered how the diamond knew that having only talked to me 5 minutes. And you are right, people worshipped the ground this guy walked on because "He had made it". I was about ready to tell my friends (friends got me to go to a seminar last friday finally, I had refused 3 times. I found It very odd that they told me that they deal in people not in products. My friends had always told me that they were self imployed and helped others start businesses. I thought they were consultants or something. I had never before heard of Amway and they had never mentioned it to me anyway. In the meetings, they kept mentioning the supplier. I finally asked who the supplier was and I was told Amway. I had never heard of Amway before but the fact that they assured me that Amway had changed and isnt the same as it used to be sparked my suspicions. I said it looked like a pyramis scheme and I was told that it wasn't because every person can have their own pyramid as big or bigger than the person above them. Then, comming home, my friends stopped to go to the bathroom and he made a "business contact" in the bathroom. We then passed some bars and he told me, I used to b like them, a member of the ratrace, and I am so glad I escaped. These are clues to the cult like nature of amway that I never really realized untill reading ypour page. You have helped me descide not to join on and I thank you.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 4 May 1998 Hi, My name is ***** I live in Melbourne Australia, All I can say about your page is WOW !!!! you are a real champion. Me and my wife were involved in amway a few years ago and we like you at the start thought that all our financial worries will be over in a short time. I am very glad that those stupid mindbending tapes didn't have the effect on my mind as our upline would have liked them to have, as for the seminars all I can say is that I didn't take too kindly to watching some so called highly respected businessman totally and utterly hypnotise a bunch of brainwashed bunnies, the tapes and seminars were the biggest thorn in my side I couldn't understand why these two were the main ingredients to a successful amway career but luckily I evaluated the whole business with an open mind and I can't thank my sceptic side enough, Anyway I'm not going to carry on about our BAD !!!!!! very BAD !!!!!!! experience with amway in this letter, if you would be interested in our amway venture I would be more than happy to give you a detailed report. It's very nice and comforting to see educated people such as yourself taking your time to try and enlighten people around the world about the amway clan. I have my own ceramic tiling business and my wife ***** is back at Uni studying Psychology, wouldn't it be funny if I had to listen to motivational tapes on tiles and glue for my business to function properly hey I'm no where close to being a millioneer but I can go to sleep every night in comfort knowing that I don't have to loose my family and friends because of the business I'm in. I have better end this cos otherwise I will be typing for a long time, hopefully you can give me the pleasure of doing so in my future e-mails to you. Looking forward to your reply I have bookmarked your page and will be visiting it regularly. All the best..........
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Sun, 03 May 1998
Hi
I use to be an amway distributor and although I have learnt about sales
which has helped me with my publication and stamp auction in the U.K.
A large part of the system which is produced by IBS ( International
Business systems) is as we all know is functions, books and tapes.
A few of the books are fantastic 'How to win friends and influence
people’ By Dale Carnegie must be read by everyone as it has helped me to
overcome various problems with various people.
One thing I have yet to see on any ant-amway site is the cash flow
forecast. If you ask any distributor for the cash flow forecast, you
will be told that you do not need one as this is not like any other type
of business and in any case the forecast is in the business plan.
This is rubbish for any business to survive a cash flow forecast is
required. A cash flow forecast is not how much you need to make a
profit, it is formula of how much sales you need to do to break even.
You might be thinking ‘ I don't want to break even, I want to make a few
thousand a month.
The only problem with that, is a person or company in business has to
break even before profits are made and even the banks do not always
explain what the cash flow forecast is.
I will now explain what the cash flow forecast is in amway
COST
Business start up kit........................................£85
Bonus chart..................................................£4
Catalogues (10)..............................................£10
Ad Packs (5)............@ £.3.50 each....................£18-50
Follow up pack (2)........@ £5 each.........................£10
One tape each week (52)...&£4 e...........................£208
Monthly functions ... 12 each year...Tickets for two........£624
Travel to functions......12 each year.......@..£5.....Each......£60
Evening functions for new people
to see the business plan..........£2 each..........................£8
TOTAL COST.................................................£1000-00 +
This was a few years ago in the U.K.
The new distributors will not be able to generate enough sales to
produce £1000 profit a year to break even so they have to sponsor a
downline to cut their losses. The only reason Directs and above are
making a profit is because their downline is losing money and
subsidising their losses.
Also I have seen the same thing in various shops as sold in the amway
catalogues and the shop price is half the amway price. If you tell this
to an amway distributor, you will be informed that the product is not
exactly the same. The only difference is the wrapping so the answer is
technically correct.
Other meetings are for distributor to be told how to answer your
questions and if you were to ask the distributor ‘How are you doing in
amway’ the answer would be great, fantastic or some other answer. One
thing people do not realise is that the answers given by distributors
are based on their own definitions of your question and not your meaning
of the word or phrase.
I will give an example of going fantastic.
Two dealers have a table each at an antiques fair ( we will call them
Charles and Mike) and at the end of the day, they are asked by the
promoter, how have they done in sales. Charles said that he had a
fantastic day. Mike said that he had a bad day. One dealer sold over
$6000 of antiques and the other dealer sold just under $3000 worth. Now
the question is who sold how much.
My answer is that Mike had a bad day as he sold over $6000 and he was
expecting more of his customers to come to the fair. Charles had a
fantastic day as this was his first time at that venue. We all have
different meanings for words.
With the amway plan is you will be told that the distributor makes on
average 30% profit on all sales. This is fine on paper but in practice
the distributor makes about 20% on sales before expenses
The Amway connections catalogue is about 16% profit. Home care products
about 22% profit and the perfumes about 40% profit. The perfumes do not
sell very well as they are water or alcohol based and they do not last
very long.
So if £1000 is required then the distributor has to sell £5000 a year to
break even and the business plan recommends about £180 a month to pay
for books, tapes and functions. Therefore the distributor must sponsor
people to stop losing money. But the distributorship will have a
different version about losing money. My definition of losing money is
you can not lose what you never had. You can not lose a million bucks if
you never had that amount in the first place. My definition of losing
money in Amway is that the distributor will not generate enough sales to
pay for tapes, books and functions.
Check out the cash flow forest with any distributor and see what the
reaction is. One thing is if you disagree with the distributor is never
to argue, just say that you do not understand.
I have been lied to by distributors. I found this out when I was a
distributor, I had problem. I did not contact my upline for help so I
went to a meeting where I was not known and I managed to talk to a
distributor. I said ‘Has the hotel been taken over for a sales meeting’
He replied ‘There is a business meeting in one of the rooms’ Then I was
asked if l worked locally. I said ‘I was a computer operator’ and his
reply was that ‘There is computer operator in the meeting’. If I said
that I was an undertaker, he reply would have been the same.
We did arrange a meeting to I could be shown the amway plan. He came to
my home to explain the plan and the profits. Before he went, we
arranged another meeting to discuss the business and he left me with
amway follow up pack. this gives more information about the business
plan and in the pack there is a tape to listen to.
A few days later, he came back to my house so I could ask a few
questions on the business. One of the things that I said is I don't
think I can afford the money to invest in amway. He replies that he was
in the same position and he sold an Nintendo games machine so he could
start in the business. I heard the same reply on the last amway tape,
another lie. I asked him about the follow up pack and I said is there
another pack which is similar to the follow up pack. He said there there
was no similar pack. That is a third lie as there is an add pack. I did
not ask if there was anything exactly the same, but he could have
mentioned about the add pack as he knew what I meant.
I told him that I was not interested and on the information about the
meeting. At the end of the year, I did not renew my distributorship with
amway. When I told my sponsor this, they stopped sending Christmas cards
to us, although we always sent them one. This was hurtful as my sponsors
are my cousins and they were told to do this by their upline. In amway
we are told do not spend tine with people who are not interested, only
spend quality time with people who are interested. The result is that
this destroys friends and family.
I took one of my friends to an amway meeting and he asked one of my
upline ‘How much was he making in amway’ The reply was about £1000 a
month, At the time I was impressed until later I found out that the
distributor was only tuning over about £300 a month. Then I could not
trust my own upline to be honest. Without the distributors lying, or
giving misleading answers, amway would not be in business.
How do recognise a distributors car ? Easy, Look for the sticker on the
back ‘Free Enterprise works’ Have a look at the CNN news take a
printout of amway been banned in China or paying an out of court
settlement for about $7,00,000 for using artists work without paying
royalties.
I hope that this is of interest to you.
>From a wise person who believes that all networking should be made
illegal and please check out the cash flow forecast and put it in wour
web site. Amway can mot take legal action as this is not copyright and
this is only the expected outlay for the distributer in the first year.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sun, 03 May 1998 Very funny website!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 03 May 1998 Hi there Russel, Funny that I happened across your story today. About 1 hour prior to me reading this I was at an informal brunch with a couple from Amway. The resemblance to your story and mine is frightening. I was given the tapes, the literature, and the invitation to a meeting on Tuesday. I too had reservations when I first me this couple. My wife and I met them at the San Diego Zoo. They were sitting at a table next to ours and started up a conversation. He was former military, I'm in the Military, what a coincidence, blah, blah, blah. Oh, by the way here's my card, give me a call let's do lunch. I guess to my advantage, and by me having a keen sense of people, I was very very hesitant to talk to this guy. He called me quite often trying to set up a meeting. "I would like for your family and my family to get together for lunch sometimes. You should bring your wife along, this is a joint venture." I would guess that he called me maybe 10 times before I finally agreed to meet with him. Just before I left this morning I told my wife, "I'll bet he's either selling something, or he's trying to convince me to join some group." She jokingly said to me, "Maybe he wants you to be part of his CULT!!!!" This really hit home after reading your story. Well, the meeting was pleasant enough. Fake smile here, the frequent uh-huh there, and a lot of false giggles. As I ate my bagel and he and his wife their bacon and eggs, I watched as he methodically primed me for the "kill". In my mind I was convinced that I didn't want to do this. But for some reason I started entertaining the idea of actually joining. Two hours and 17 cups of coffee later, we finally got up and left the restaurant. Out in the parking lot they gave me the literature, and his wife a nice hug and a kiss.(Must be my electric personality).I immediately came home and did exactly what you said you did. I got on the internet and started seaching for info about Amway. I can't tell you how glad I was to find you story. Here are my plans for now. He's going to contact me again on Monday. This is unavoidable because I have his promotional tapes, and products. He said that I should listen to the tapes and look at the products, but don't use them. He needs them back. I'm not going to go the meeting but I'm going to put something to the test here. I want to see if the cultinism that you mentioned is there. Can Amway people have FRIENDS outside of Amway? Will they call me after they find out that I have absolutely no interest in joining Amway? Again Russel, thanks for the story and information. I'm still doing some research but your page was a definite cornerstone of my research.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sun, 03 May 1998 I know what you mean ! My sister in law has been with them for a few years now and we are still waiting for her ship to come in. Both her and my brother in law are now blind to the fact that they are being bled dry by this group. They have gotten them to change religions and now it is like you say a cult..they have taken everything from them...they no longer watch tv all they do is listen to amway related tapes and religious propaganda. I am not knocking religion ,,,but when they are just using you to get all your assets...its a CRIME. They have allienated themselves from the family except whn they need someone to keep the kids while they go to these Amway functions....They have completely taken away from my neice all the things she loved and now they are talking of self schooling...Whata crock of shit. These are adults we are talking about....Keep in touch..I am glad there is someone that has seen the light..and has broken away from the cult... Thanks
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 3 May 1998 Dear Russell: thanks so very much for taking the time to put your story on the net. My brother is whole-heartedly into the deal and I got in just to make him happy, to support him. Our relationship has always been strained and I thought this would be a way to show support for his dreams. But I was really confused and doubtful. My brother is the 4th person (or couple) to approach me in the last 15 years. I have never liked the sideways approach, but I'd do most anything for my brother, I wouldn't get in for other people. He was already giving me tapes and literature. I was so full of doubt and in tears over whether or not to do this that my stomach hurt. Then my fellow found your information on the net. I am writing to say thank you for taking the time and energy to put all this down. Your info is right on the money. Almost everything my brother has said to me has come right out of your story. My fellow read me parts of your work and said, "we have to get your brother out of this!" and I was ready to, until I got on the phone with him. He started telling me about this guy who tried to tell him this wouldn't work, he railed about how that guy was a loser, he had no dreams. No one was going to tear him down and he was going to do anything to help me succeed. He said to me, "If you fail, then I have failed. I won't let you fail!" He also said he would do anything his upline told him, anything. With all the things we'd read on your page, I knew I couldn't tell him anything, so I've mostly just put him off by telling him my real job is my passion and I don't have the extra time to do all this other. Maybe someday, I tell him. I have no intention of going further, but don't want a confrontation either. As I said, I'm glad you used the medium you know to put the word out. I kept telling myself I didn't want to try to get other people into anything that I had felt such a struggle about. I'm glad to have someone give the other side of the story and validate my feelings. Thanks again, for writing it all down. I hope that they have left you alone. I know you'll be successful at whatever you do!
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part3)
Mon, 4 May 1998
Hello,
I'm so glad I read your amway story.I was being pressured
recently by that cult organization.I have a question for you.Did Ted or
Phil ever tell you a story concerning a lost wallet at one of their
weekly gatherings that was returned with all of it's contents,which
would prove Amways wonderful honest members?That's the story I got from
a couple of Amway distributers who's trying every tactic imaginable to
get me to ( JOIN ) Then when I got to this web site there was
another story a young man was telling and he told the same wallet story
this husband and wife told me last week. Coincidence? I think not!
Subject: your amway story (part 1) Mon, 4 May 1998 Hello there,first things first is that I am not a very good typist, I am quite new to the internet, and I am an Amway distibutor. I have to agree with your assessment, yet I am puzzled. First of all, I was/am a professional scholar with an accredited Masters and over 15 published articles, inluding the University of Cambridge Press. Like you, I researched the Amway business and am willing ti listen to everyone's story. The facts are also important to me, and I have always sought to present only data that I believed could be supported by overwhelming evidence. There is genuine frustration in being an Amway distributor. I myself experince some level of frustration every day. Yet I also know that being in this business creates a growing edge in my own personal journey. I believe this, some of the facts that are presented in your article and associated sotes are not accurate. Nor are they evaluated properly. I would instead argue that one must analyze the system proper including business philosophy in conjunction with the hard empirical earnings data. I have been an active distributor for apprximately two and half months, have already begun to develop small group momentum, and have enjoyed much about being a distributor, including apprecitating the type and quality of thype of product offered. I have hair down to the middle of my back, read in over 12 major disciplines in six languages. I would perhaps hope to keep you updated on my journey in Amway mostly because I am fairly new in the business, and second, because I approach this business using all the skills I bring to my vocational research. Third, I am a musician and while that has nothing to do with anything, I thought you should know. Yes, I too do not savor the rah rah mentality of the meetings but I know that most people do. Nor do I like the carbon copy clones of conservative Republicanism I see, but if someone like myself can honestly succeed, then I hope to have an voice, an educated voice of reason. I despise the political and religious overtones that I see, but I also can appreciate that spirituality (not religion) is a signbificant hermenutic for some. If you write me I will write back
Subject: GOOD JOB!!! Tue, 5 May 1998 Pardon my ramblings, but you might find this interesting. Hi, I have been around the block a few times and of course been approached by Amway often. Recently I have been worked over by a person I sold some stuff to (in a legit, normal business) and got curious. Looked up your stuff and it's really funny, even in this early stage of influence, the pattern is there! I read through his most recent e-mail to me (in fact, I'll enclose it for your enjoyment) and there it is! All of it! His reference to my company was that I had mentioned to him that I was looking for investors for a computer program I had written (before he went Amway). He inquired, and I said I had received some $ but looking for more. The reference to being a rep for my company - again as you point out he just needs an excuse to meet and convert me. And this guy was a vice president of sales in a rather large company! A pleasure to deal with before. I would have liked him to be a friend and colleauge. He is about 2 or 3 months into it now. I have copied him on some material I downloaded, and I'd be curious how he handles this. I don't think I would ever get hooked, but I am hooked on the whole scam consept. One of my specialties is Internet scams and computer crimes. I teach workshops to police departments on computer crime issues. I have also studied influence and persuation strategies, but this takes the cake! Thank you for doing this research and making it available. I would be interested in hearing from you. Regards, ***** Here's his most recent e-mail... *****, Yes, I am an Amway Distributor but I don't think of it as "doing Amway" any more than I would use the term "doing Costco". Amway is just a supplier. What I am doing is working with the Worldwide organization to create new distribution channels for many of the fortune 500 companies through private franchising. We are building a subscriber base for these companies through a service corporation (Amway). Read the March issue of Fortune Magazine, this is the same thing that A.O.L. is doing. Believe me, this is far beyond selling soap, and it is part time. WorldWide and Britt (a sister organization) are producing 30-40 millionaires a year by teaching people a two to five year business plan that takes about ten hours a week. This is done primarily through shifting peoples buying habits (buy from yourself instead of Safeway and Costco). I could help you fund your self without trading your time for consulting and without giving up your dream ($$ or equity in V.I.P. Info Services) to investors. It doesn't cost anything to look, and my upline mentor lives in Bellingham. Please understand I am NOT trying to sign you up!! I have a great deal of respect for you and what you are doing. I only want you to take an objective look at it, and meet some of the people I work with!! Are you still in need of a rep in Portland area? I am looking for something else to do and I am very selective. Being an independent repfor V.I.P. appeals to me. We have talked about this before but havn't been able to get together. I am very willing to come up to Lynden to meet with you. Hope to hear from you soon, ***
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 5 May 1998 My husband's boss is involved in Amway and is presently introducing my husband to it. Last Friday after a long day at work and an even longer afternoon trying to get home through traffic, I was reluctantly dragged off to the first of the introductionary meetings. Now, I must tell you that I've already been throught this. The man I was engaged to before my husband was looking into the business. His whole family was all hyped up about it. But I saw it for what it was. And my husband knew how I felt about the whole thing and knew I was only going because he asked me to. I was surprised at who came to our little meeting. It was my husbands boss, his wife and a man I had met once before. I thought it was strange that the man hadn't mentioned the fact that he was involved in Amway to me but he did to my husband. They're nice enough people so I spent the time quietly chatting with the other wife. I wasn't wasting my time with the basic introduction to the company. It didn't take too long before my dear husband was completely confused and decided to reroute the mans focus to me. "She's the one with all the business sense, talk to her." Great honey...love you too. So he asked me if I'd ever seen a board plan-yes. He asked if I tried any of the products-yes. He asked a few other questions but he wisely avoided the one question I was waiting for-what do I think about the business? I waited and waited but he never asked. How do I feel? The business could work, if you're willing to sacrafice what little time you get to spend with your family for board meetings and confrences and trying to get people as hyped up as you were when you made the fool desicion to join. But the products aren't any better or cheaper than what you can buy at the store. And for that matter, you have to wait to get them. Like the bulk toilet paper....48 rolls for $21. I could get the same quantity at Costco for $19 or at Safeway for $12. How the hell am I saving money??? No, I don't like Amway and I don't want to be involved. But I'm going to let my husband figure this out on his own. If he decides he wants to give it a go I'll encourage him to do his best and go as far as he can. But I know between working, going to board meetings and trying to introduce the business to others, not to mention trying to do the retail end of it....he's going to miss me and our son alot sooner than he'll see a profit fromsomething he'll be killing himself to try and make suceed. Thank you for this web site. It helps to know I'm not the only one who thinks Amway is a waste of time.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 05 May 1998 Hi Russell, Have to say I liked your story, I got myself involved with NSA and the water filter business, so I know what you are talking about. Does not sound as horrible as your lucky escape, but it did cost me £300
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