 |
Page 30 |
|
|
Page 30 |
|
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Wed, 06 May 1998
Mr. Glasser,
I read the WHOLE thing!
Keep the dream of starting that computer software company. Me, I'm
working on my B.S. in psychology and plan to attend grad school in the
"not overwhelmingly" near future.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 06 May 1998 Dear Russell, Thank you so much for revealing the truth about the misleading dreamboat hell so many of us have been through. I was so-called brainwashed that I joined three different times. I couldn't believe that I was that stupid not to realize that it didn't work the first time or the second. When the last group starting telling me what kind of clothes to wear, business cards to have, and what tapes and books I had to buy, that is when I woke up. I have been out of the MLM business for 5 yrs now and realize what a waste of life I feel into. My wonderful loving brother tried to tell me the truth about it and I didn't exactly listen at the time but sure realized he was right...like always. He even fell for it once, but he was to keen also..just like you. I remember he told me that they didn't make their money selling the product, it was tapes and books and seminars. It fact Amway offered him $50,000 plus just to do the seminars but he said NO THANK YOU! I am printing your information to have on hand for several people to view that are in Amway and it won't bother me a bit to show them the truth. I just hope it will wake them up before it is too late. It is like you don't want to rain on someone's parade but you also don't want to be the one to be asked "why didn't you tell me?, didn't you care about me?" My wife has never been involved with MLM and will not have anything to do with those groups, but at the same time it amazes me how she knows and smells a scam about these MLMers and people in general, so I have learned for quite a while to listen to her. I would think that between her and my brother's teaching, I could never be takened but I have. It is good to have a dream for you will perish if you don't, but make sure it is scamfree by reseaching. The one thing alot of us don't do. Hope I didn't make this too long but again thank you for exposing the truth and if you would like some interesting knowledge no-one knows about Amway I have then please contact me at ***@***.*** and I'll fill you in on something.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Thu, 7 May 1998
Well, I've been up all night scouring the web.. You see, I got drunk last
night, and I now realize that when your drunk your inhibitions leave you. I
started searching for my PV/BV results for last month.. but I got
sidetracked.. Yeah, I'd seen all of the Lies and Losers on the net.. At least
that's what My System Training had taught me... But seeing first that sight by
that emerald with all of the proof, and the checks and the Amvox's..... Then
somehow getting to your page.. Yeah, I read your WHOLE story...Why? Because
our Life Stories, up to a point sound very similar.. I, too, was a computer
programming student in college.. I left though, because I couldn't afford it..
Actually, my parents couldn't, but I digress. I had this anger that they
could let this kind of thing happen.. I was at home again, then.. Working in
retail at a Circus City, the last true bastion of commissioned salespeople..
and the Store Manager hooked me..
That was a year and a half ago.. Suddenly reading your pages.. This
little voice.. the voice of me... kind of rekindled the tiniest candle in my
head... And I'm having to be very careful right now.. because a tape on my way
to my J.O.B. could extinguish that little candle.. with it's little flame..
And my upline will call, after I finally sleep.. and wake up.. and eat my
breakfast, take my DoubleX Vitamins.. Grab a cup of 9 to 5, I will be in my
car, listening to that tape, getting the call from him on my cell phone.. And
this whole night, this letter, infact, will be a non-moment.
It's one of the messed up thing about Amway.. Every one becomes hollow..
yet every once in a while a glimpse of that tucked-away-thrown-out-at-that-
last-seminar self will come out in an action or a facial expression or a
moment shared between two distributors...
I'm tired of living the lies.. I'm TRULy Broke.. I'm truly tired.. I truly
want to escape.. I truly want to be me.. But I will build the diamonds, the
emeralds, and the rubies their cyber-castles.. they will pay me well to make
them.. I will escape.. I will incorporate my people skills with my computer
skills.. here's the total revenge.. take the money I make from them and put it
towards the completion of college.. HEY! THat's a NOvEL idea.. Woops! It's
seven am.. gotta go to work..
Wanta go to work
Please write back or at least forward this to me.. as I don't
think I'll remember.. But for what it's worth thanks.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 07 May 1998 I am Dr *****. I was taken to my first Amway meeting last night by a local dentist.The people were all in suits,all VERY nice,what I call "born again" ,with fixed smiles.We are all here to help you get rich. They drove my wife and I 30 mins to a periodontist(?direct) large house on the water in Ft Lauderdale. My first thought were Scientology...MLM.....cult...as you said. Thanks for the confirmation, loved it, regards, *****,free,answering to nobody.
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 7 May 1998 Hi You need to modify your discussions slightly, Amway now pays Dist. directly no money out of their pockets. The monies from tapes and seminars do not go to the Corp. They go to others that have "made it". While there have been many who failed to make money, just as in any field of endever. There have also been many who have been successful. There are news and magazine articles that have praises MLM's just as there are ones that pan it. Bottom line to each their own. Thank you for your well thought out discussions and for further proving there are two sides to every valid discussion.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 07 May 1998 The lab here at school is closing in ten minutes but I just wanted to say thanks for writing this article It was just what I was looking for. Ive only been to two meetings(one person) so I can't relate to your second and third article but the first one I can. all fluff, hype, and no concrete. we will see what happens next (I want to keep my life)
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Fri, 08 May 1998 Thank u verymuch for maintaining this site. I attended a amway meeting and found it interesting. As u rightly pointed out the info doled out is vague. So I searched the web and found u r site. I passed on the info to atleast 4 more people half hour. I dont think I would hv succeeded if I tried selling amway products. u r site helps people to have a choice. I went thru u r story completely and found it very interesting. It is amazing to see this seemingly simple business causes so many emotional upsets, heartbreaks etc. There is a site 'artofliving.org'. Pl visit it when u hv time. The founder of art of living organisation has some very interesting quotes mostly from our scriptures ofcouse about different emotions. I work for a computer company ***** in Delhi. We have company in USA named ***** specialising in banking software.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 08 May 1998 Russell, I am sorry you've had a bad experience-but don't be so hard on yourself. The business is not for everyone. I am certainly not the type of person who listens to tapes every day, and read motivational books. Those things do help, if not in this business, but in everyday life. Maybe your upline was misleading-it sounds like you feel that you have been tricked. My upline has been very supportive of me-not pushing or rushing me to do this business. My business is "my business", and I can move at whatever pace I wish. This is not a get rich quick or cult thing. I don't want to put you upline down-but you did see something "worthwile" in this business, or you would'nt have joined. Give it another chance. Try another upline or group, or just tell your upline how you feel. If it's not your upline who you feel is at fault-and just your sponcer-take it up with a someone like an emerald or diamond in your group. Tell them how you feel your being minipulated, (thats just what I got from reading some of what you wrote). Not all people are misleading and cons. But do yourself a favor. Don't quit. Take a brake if you have to. But don't quit.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Sun, 10 May 1998 I am sorry that your experience with Amway has not been what you expected. The business is not for everyone. Unfortunately, it appears the distributers who tried to recruit you did not do a good job of qualifying your interest. I have been in the business for three years in an inactive role. Basically, I buy products at wholesale and have been not trying to build a large network marketing organization. However, in my time in the business I have been able to watch many fellow Distributors increse their income enough to bring their wife home to be with their children, helped eliminate debt and even seen some replace their income and retire. They all have kind hearts and when they "share" the plan they simply are trying to help other people who are looking for more. While you obviously dislike Amway or you would not have dedicated s much time to your site, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LOVE THE BUSINESS! What most people do not realize is that the Amway Corporation simply manufactures products, sets up programs with other companies that would like to move products through our 2.5 million Distributors and tracks these transactions and pays Distributors for their efforts. There are many "teams" of distributors who set up systems. As with any organization, some are better than others. What it does not appear you realize is that ultimately you are in a business for yourself regardless of the team that which recruited you. >From what I have read, the business you discribe is not the business I am in. I do not know if you were mislead, or are misleading. Either way, I have yet to see anyone go after the Amway business hard and not succeed. As in any business or any worthwhile endeavor for that matter, anything good does not come easily. However for those that do build the Amway business to the Emerald level ($100,000 per year, inflation adjusted residual income willable and inheritable three generations deep) or above the reward is certainly worth it. I am amazed that you would dedicate so much time to detract from an opportunity that is legal and for those who are willing to pay the price incredibly rewarding. Perhaps our schools do not teach Free Enterprise well enough. Either way, God gives you free will and in America you are free to do what you please. Good luck with your software business if that is what you pursue.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sun, 10 May 1998 Gotta say, you made me laugh a few times :) I'm not part of Amway, I WAS curious about it.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 10 May 1998 I imagine you have very little insight and vision. I thought your views are narrow minded, considering you are not in the business and as such, lack the creditability that generally is accepted as being a qualified opionion.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 10 May 1998 Dear Russell, And it's not just Amway....I've seen friends get swallowed up by Quorum, Super Blue Green Algae (Cell Tech), and Equinox. It's exactly the same scam: "Only "losers" wouldn't grab this great opportunity. "Winners" have the superior intelligence to see the great potential. Our "product" is by far superior to that which you can buy retail. Be your own boss. Be independent. Retire in 6 months. Make $8,000 a month!! " The friend who got taken by one of these Multi-Level Marketing schemes tried to recruit us by inviting my husband to breakfast, along with the guy who recruited him. My husband told them that he never got involved in business with friends or family, because it can lead to too many problems.(What my husband really felt was that it was obvious they were immersed in a Multi- level Marketing scheme and he didn't feel like enlightening them because they had that maniacal glaze in their eyes that would not respond to reason.) Hubby refused to even go to breakfast with them! When they couldn't convince him to go, it was easy to see that in private they smugly reassured each other that we were "losers" who were "missing the opportunity of a lifetime" but we didn't care! The hubby rightly predicted that within 4 months, after losing large sums of money, the recently-converted friend would wake up. The friend, who we'll call Fred, preceeded to lose about $5000 over the next few months, buying "product", going to seminars, flying to Arizona for said seminars, books, tapes, not to mention the untold embarrassment of only being able to sucker-in one recruit, even after approaching probably 100 people. In his defense, Fred was recruited by his own fiance's brother, which shows how little regard these people have for family ties. The fiance's brother would visit in his gold Mercedes-Benz (leased) and use his good looks and university education to bring in more suckers. By the way, the brother's money had actually come from his wife getting a large inheritence from a relative. It's unfortunate that so many people can be deceived by a shallow representation. Anyway, the story continues....Fred was encouraged by his sponsor to actually purchase $25.00 samples of the "product" and send it along in recruitment materials to friends (that he dug up from days long gone by, like friends from the military, friends from 10 years ago, etc.) So Fred was buying these samples out of his own money, and sending them by US mail to unsuspecting friends. Do the math - $25 per sample, recruitment cassette tape, paper handouts, postage, packaging, sent out to maybe 50 friends and family..... this started to cost a lot of money. But the sponsor really encouraged it because HE WAS MAKING MONEY OFF THESE SAMPLES AND MATERIALS. Sure, Fred got the samples at his "wholesale" cost, but it probably cost him $20.00 per unit. The brother told him it was a great selling stragegy and that once a potential sponsee saw the product, and how great it was, they would immediately join up. Of course, they didn't. And nobody returned the "free" samples, either. So Fred was SOL, if you get my meaning. So day by day, Fred got more and more disillusioned. The brother convinced him to go to Arizona for a seminar, and then tried to stick him with the hotel bill by staying in another person's room, and letting a person that Fred had never met sleep in his bed (in Fred's room). The new guy in Fred's room tried to charge breakfast to Fred's room and get out of paying for sleeping there. I believe Fred had caught on by then and got his money, but maybe not. The fact that everybody was using everybody else was appalling to Fred, who was really not that bad of a person, and only wanted the American dream. And so, 3 or 4 months later, as my husband predicted, Fred threw in the towel, admitted he had been scammed, and was left with a bunch of "product" that he couldn't even give away. Another part of the scam was that they tell you that you can return the product at any time, 100% guaranteed. The catch is that you can't open the box. However, they instruct you to open the box when you receive it so that you can make sure everything's intact. Catch-22! Sorry, you opened the box - now you can't return it! Gotcha! Fred is angry at the brother-in-law who got him into this and he has said that if he wasn't "family" he would sue. That's how the MLM's get away with it. People are reluctant to retaliate against friends and family. Of course, the laws protect MLMs, so people have to get educated and spot one when they see it. As for my own personal experience: One time, another MLM scammer sent me a video tape and when I refused to sign up, she tried to bully me into sending the tape back to her on my dollar! She angrily said that "professional" people return things to each other as a "professional courtesy," implying that I was unprofessional and un-businesslike. I said that real business people include a self-addressed, stamped envelope when they expect something to be returned to them. We got into a great big fight and I never returned the tape to her, so there! Thank you for your webpage, Russell. No matter how many dissenters attack you for it, there are many more who you will save from grief. Some people you can't save, and that is their lesson to learn. God bless you!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 10 May 1998 Dear Russell, One day I was pumping gas at the local service station here in Northern California, when an older gentleman who was also getting gas started to chat with me about the weather, etc. He seemed really nice and friendly. Then suddenly, after about 5 minutes of pleasant conversation, he asked me what I did for a living. A red flag went off in my brain. Then he spouted, "How would you like to make thousands of extra dollars in your spare time doing what you love to do best?" Or something to that effect. OK, I have no way of knowing if it was Amway or whatever, because I didn't give him a chance to explain, but it was definitely a MLM scam or a scam of some kind, so I politely said 'no' once, then twice, (not so politely), then got in my little car and drove away into the sunset! What burns me is they have this pretense of just being friendly when all they really want is your money! I say quit being so polite. They don't care about you or how you feel, so within reason, don't care about them either. People are raised to be polite in all situations, and these scammers take advantage of it. Say 'no' and walk away. Don't explain why not; you don't owe them an explanation.
Subject: Equinox Shysters Sun, 10 May 1998 Hi! I sent this to the MLM Survivors Home Page (where I saw your link). I thought I'd send you a copy so that it can reach as many people as possible. It's not Amway, but Amway's equally evil twin Equinox. Thanks! I got conned into attending one of those Equinox cattle calls today, although thankfully the only thing it cost me was about 4 and 1/2 hours of my precious time (I'm considering sending those con artists a bill!). These scumbags advertised in "The Hollywood Reporter" and that is where I saw the ad. I was looking for a nice quiet desk job--one that I could do during the week so that I could continue writing on the weekends (I'm a screenwriter and a script consultant). Somehow, my contact person, by talking successfully in circles around what the "job" was all about, persuaded me to come in for an "interview" on a Saturday. That should have been my first clue that this was a marketing scam. Nobody in real business interviews on a Saturday! I was led to a seat at the front of the room by my contact person. She seemed nice enough (I think, poor thing, she has been seriously brainwashed), but I didn't understand what the scam was (until quite trapped in the recruiting seminar) that this was just a pyramid scheme. Unfortunately, since I was raised to be polite, I didn't immediately get up and walk out (although the woman who sat next to me did. Brava! Smart lady!) We got to see a motivational tape by the His Divine Eminence Bill Gouldd (any idiot who adds an extra "d" to his name because a "spiritual advisor" said he was "out of balance" without it is a freak, in my never-to-be-humble opinion). Supposedly, this was a "live" satellite feed, going out to all parts of The Land of the Free at the same time. Funny how Bill Gouldd said it was "evening" where he was, since this took place at about 11 a. m. Pacific Time, and the latest it could have been on the East Coast was 2 p. m.! Can anyone say "video tape b. s.?!" My, what a high opinion this man has of himself! We got the whole spiel about how he was dying and in agony and his body puffed out like the Goodyear Blimp until a Mexican "healer" (read: scam "herbalist") made him whole, Praise Jesus! In that instant (once again, Hallelujah!) he realized that these were the products he was meant to sell to the world. A people in darkness were about to see a great light named Bill Gouldd (I wonder if he had annexed the second "d" by that time?) Then, after the Divine One signed off the "satellite feed" (read: videotape) one by one, his beloved Disciples of Dealership got up for their testimonials. I thought "Please God, make it stop!" I wish the rude part of me had just gotten up and walked out at that point. I'm glad I searched the web afterward to find out what a slick con man Gouldd really is! That's how I found this web page. Anyway, we got all sorts of hard sell tactics, drawings of circles with "happy faces" in them (representing yourself in the Grand Scheme O' Equinox Things!), demonstrations of how Binaca can be turned into a deadly flame thrower (I'll have to keep that in mind for future screenplays--neat trick!), and heartwarming testimonials of just how wonderful the company is. I wanted to vomit. Anyway, RUN, do not walk, away from anyone who tries to get you into this laughable pile of rat turds known as a multi-level marketing! I felt enormous satisfaction when all the blather was over to say in my sweetest voice to my contact person "You know, this just isn't for me." She tried her darndest to change my mind, but I was already buttoning up my raincoat and headed for the door. When she realized I wasn't buying into the garbage, or in any way about to sign my name to anything, she gamely pumped my hand in an insincerely handshake, tried to smile, and wished me luck. God knows what was going through her mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like: "That woman will never make it! She insists on using her own talents to make her way in Hollywood! She's not bowing to the Divine Will of Our Lord and Savior Bill Gouldd with the double d's!" The scariest thing about the whole experience was the "Moonie-like" nature of the True Believers in the room. I thought sarcastically what sheep they were--then realized, in horror and pity, that that's exactly what they are! They spouted the party line like Gospel, and are gung-ho in their allegiance to the company to the point of frightening stupidity. They are clearly under a spell--and their focus on pure, unadulterated greed chilled me to the bone. Oh, by the way, I'm both a conservative Republican and a Catholic--and find the Equinox tactics not only appalling, but downright evil. So don't get the idea that all Republicans and Christians buy into the garbage these rats spew! They do not! Well, good luck to all of you! I hope you all manage to escape the clutches of these monsters and stranglers of individual thought. Now, go out there and get a job! If you are good at what you do, you'll succeed, despite what these morons tell you. I sure as heck plan to succeed! Maybe someday you will all see my motion pictures on the big screen: "Written and Directed by:" Of course, you won't know it's me, because my name will not be posted in this forum. But I'll know I made it--without the blessings or mind control of the Divine Double D Gouldd! God bless you all! Stay out of MLM trouble, ya'll!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Mon, 11 May 1998 I've just started as a new amway distributor. I'd really like to know how is the business growing in your country. Thanks
Subject: Your SCAMWAY page
Mon, 11 May 1998
Russell,
Way to go in exposing some of the truths of Amway. I am a disabled
military retiree who is employed. I make some big money working for a
computer manufacturer. My Mom lives with me as she has Alzheimer's. I have
a roommate who is her caretaker and my confidant. He was approached by
someone from his high school, whom he did not even SPEAK to while in
school. Low and behold, this piece of work calls and wants to talk to him
about a "business opportunity." I asked him if it was Amway, and he did not
know because he was not told. I told him to watch himself for anything.
SCAMWAY was presented to him and he thought it was real interesting.
That is when I went about 'de-programming' him from the amway mindset. I
have printed over 300 pages of information I found on the internet regarding
amway, both pro and con. It should come as no surprise that there are more
people speaking out AGAINST amway. Their products are absolutely no better
than what you can purchase at any grocery, discount, or hardware store. In
fact, many products you can buy freely, at any time are much better than
what amway offers. Who is zoomin' whom?
After reading nearly everything you had to say, I would like to add some
fodder:
* Most people that join the SCAMWAY fold and nothing more than a bunch of
lemmings thinking they will get rich quick. The average monthly income
of a so-called distributor is $88.00. BIG DEAL. I spend more than
that at a bar in a month, and I have much more fun than working my ass
off lying to people.
* Think of how much people spend on their SCAMWAY versus how much people
spend playing the lotteries. You have more chance winning the lottery
than becoming rich in SCAMWAY.
* Nearly all members of SCAMWAY present themselves as holier than thou.
Why is it they called you names I prefer not to repeat here (I wish not
to offend any reader). You were called names that I would not even
call another piece of work, Bill Clinton. SCAMWAY cult members lie as
much as Clinton does.Yet, many of thesxse couples claim to be
religous. Part of the religious right? Interesting concept.
* The person attempting to interest my roommate has stated publicly he
plans to retire in 5 years due do SCAMWAY. He already has a business
in Winslow, Arizona that he is neglecting. He has had no contact with
my roommate since high school, and all of a sudden he wants to be a
friend? Give me an ever-loving break! How many people have turned
this guy down and run like hell when they see him coming?
* How does SCAMWAY feel about minorities? Ever see any people of color
making it big? How about gays and lesbians? How about people in
wheelchairs? How about people living in the United States illegally?
Ask one and you will undoubtedly be assailed as a trouble maker and be
called names.
* SCAMWAY will someday be exposed as the people they truly are: An
entire cult of greedy, materialistic, plastic, un-principled,
egotistical, maniacal and snobbish bastards that actually believe they
are better than anyone else in the world.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 11 May 1998 I found your story quite interesting...I really wish I'd owned a computer a couple of years ago when I was approached. I would have saved much money and heartache, for sure. Don't count everyone out who seems so "fired-up" about Amway. I used to be...always listened to the tapes, read the books, went to all the meetings. One day I just woke up sick of the whole thing, sick of having denied reality for so long. There's hope even for the "Heathers" of the world...there was for me. Now that I've become a "negative broke wimp dream-stealing loser" I feel a whole lot better about myself! I cringe when I think how much I was like the plastic Ambots in your story, and how many really good people got suckered. I was also disappointed when I found out people I trusted (upline) were making money on the "system" (books, tapes, seminars) and not telling me. Anyway, keep up the good work, maybe you can save a few people from what we had to go through.
Subject: YourAmwaypage... Tue, 12 May 1998 Hi, I was just sent your webpage, and am thrilled that it is there. I just seperated from my husband oof 4 years because i gave him a choice, Amway or me....he chose Amway. This whole thing has been a nightmare for me, and now I have to rebuild MY life because my husband got "sucked" in. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
Subject: mlm Tue, 12 May 1998 ron Loved what you had to say. I found most of what you said true. what i don't understand is how they can get away with the whole thing for so long. I thought from the beginning that they were making money off the funtions and tapes. They pushed it all to much. my brother in law is still involved. He is doing so well he sold his beatiful home for a less expensive home. thanks for all the information. You help me convince my husband that is all a scam.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 12 May 1998 I need your help!!!! I have been HAPPILY married for seven years - 50-50 best friends, etc.. 8 months ago my husband's coworker conned us into a home meeting. I sat politely through it, read the book, watched the tapes, and laughed at how silly they were (my husband laughed right along with me). Unknown to me, his coworker has been working on him for 8 months and last week he joined and paid his money without telling me!!! (And this is an open honest relationship!!!). I have cried, begged, bullied, threatened and nothing can convince him that he is being brainwashed (I called Amway a cult before I even read all the stuff on the internet!!) It is going to take me telling him that I've leaving before he will even consider getting out of this before he loses his soul, his freedom, his morals and OUR MONEY!!! This is completely blowing my mind; he WAS the most logical person that I know. I have convinced him to promise to read all the printouts off the net that I am generating as fast as humanly possible. Our deal is that if he is still an Amway believer after that, I will sit down and talk with his upline. This is where I need your help. I need GOOD questions to ask (I'm going to tape the conversation) to prove to my husband that his "friend" doesn't have a clue!! If I can't convince my husband to make up his own mind about this, I'm scared our marriage doesn't have a chance even if he gets out, because I'll forever be responsible for every money problem we have....PLEASE SEND ME SOME QUESTIONS TO ASK! I'm reading all I can get my hands on, and I'm prepared to put up a good fight, but I'm scared.
I regret to say that I lost the first letter in the exchange, because I expect I'll be accused by somebody of covering up this conversation. I think there might have been a problem with the date of the letter and it accidentally got trashed with some of my earlier mail...
In any case, the general gist of the letter was that she is sorry I have such a negative view of Amway and that there is great money to be made in the business. Really unique letter, right? Anyway, here is the rest, starting with my first reply.
Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Tue, 12 May 1998 > My husband and I are > living proof of this. We have a growing organization, we are saving > money, becoming debt free (are you?) and our relationship has never been > better. What is "becoming debt free" supposed to mean? I already AM debt free. Are you trying to work off the debt that you've incurred by attending Amway events? Exactly how much money did you make from the business last month? Subject: Becoming (and being) Debt Free Thu, 14 May 1998 In reply to your question, "What does debt free mean?" It means being able to pay for anything you need or want with cash instead of credit. For example, you need a new car. You go to the dealer, find the one you want and write a check instead of financing it. So... are you really debt free? In answer to your second question, "How much did you make from your Amway business last month?" We received a bonus check of over $1500.00. More than enough to cover a year of "Amway expenses." Any more questions? Do you have a dream or are you just a dream killer for people you don't even know? ***** Proud Amway Distributor Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free Thu, 14 May 1998 > In reply to your question, "What does debt free mean?" It means being > able to pay for anything you need or want with cash instead of credit. > For example, you need a new car. You go to the dealer, find the one you > want and write a check instead of financing it. So... are you really > debt free? I didn't ask what being debt free means. I asked what YOU mean by becoming debt free. The fact that you are "becoming" debt free implies that you are not currently so. Whereas I am, by both your definition and mine. > In answer to your second question, "How much did you make from your > Amway business last month?" We received a bonus check of over > $1500.00. More than enough to cover a year of "Amway expenses." My (former distributor) girlfriend has just pointed out that your bonus check is what you pay your downline out of. My next obvious question would be, how much of that $1500 bonus check did you keep? And the one after that will be... When you say "enough to cover a year of Amway expenses", does that include: Motivational book and tape costs; function tickets; travel expenses to in and out of state functions, including gas, airfare, and lodging? (Economics 101 told me that profit is the difference between income and EXPENSE.) By the way, I made roughly twice that last month, and that was pure profit minus a ten mile drive five days a week. > Any more questions? Do you have a dream or are you just a dream killer > for people you don't even know? I have several dreams. As a matter of fact, I have a reoccurring dream about a giant armadillo and a taco stand. I also have some interesting dreams about this person in a leather jumpsuit, and she... oops, I think I just shared too much. >:) Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free Fri, 15 May 1998 > > In reply to your question, "What does debt free mean?" It means being > > able to pay for anything you need or want with cash instead of credit. > > For example, you need a new car. You go to the dealer, find the one you > > want and write a check instead of financing it. So... are you really > > debt free? > > I didn't ask what being debt free means. I asked what YOU mean by becoming > debt free. The fact that you are "becoming" debt free implies that you are > not currently so. Whereas I am, by both your definition and mine. Good for you. I truly mean that. Most Americans are not and do not know how to be. > > > In answer to your second question, "How much did you make from your > > Amway business last month?" We received a bonus check of over > > $1500.00. More than enough to cover a year of "Amway expenses." > > My (former distributor) girlfriend has just pointed out that your bonus check > is what you pay your downline out of. My next obvious question would be, how > much of that $1500 bonus check did you keep? That was our portion of the bonus we recieved and we are only at the 4000 PV level. Your girlfriend should know how the bonus schedule works. > And the one after that will be... When you say "enough to cover a > year of Amway expenses", does that include: Motivational book and tape > costs; function tickets; travel expenses to in and out of state functions, > including gas, airfare, and lodging? (Economics 101 told me that profit is > the difference between income and EXPENSE.) I ment that is enough to cover > books, tapes, functions and function hotel expenses. Additional expenses > are money we would spend on vacations, meals out etc. The plus to this is > now that money is claimed on our taxes for business not just spent. > However, I should point out that that bonus is only for one month. We > receive similar bonus checks every month. There is the profit you were > looking for. > By the way, I made roughly twice that last month, and that was pure profit > minus a ten mile drive five days a week. > The difference between our bonus and your income is that our bonus is done in less than 10 hours a week, with no drive to work and we still make 25% more than you at my husbands (temporary) current job. He only drives 5 miles each way. > > Any more questions? Do you have a dream or are you just a dream killer > > for people you don't even know? > > I have several dreams. As a matter of fact, I have a reoccurring dream about > a giant armadillo and a taco stand. I also have some interesting dreams about > this person in a leather jumpsuit, and she... oops, I think I just shared too > much. >:) > Well, this is where your lack of understanding really shows. A "dream" is not a fantasy you have while you are sleeping. A "dream" is what motivates you to work toward the future in a positive way. It is not necessarily a dream for yourself; it could be helping your parents live well in their old age, or helping your brother buy a house or... try using your limited imagination.
First observation: she didn't answer the bit about expenses.
Second observation: "less than 10 hours a week." Yeah, right. You former distributors can back me up on this one.
Third observation: that last paragraph clearly labelled this poor woman as "humor impaired", a rare condition that I thought only existed in Dave Barry columns.
I did not see any point in perpetuating this conversation. She, however, chose to keep in touch with a vengance and wrote back some weeks later.
Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free
Fri, 29 May 1998
[Previous letter quoted in full]
Hey Russell!
Answered all of the above questions 2 weeks ago. What's the matter?
Can't find anything wrong with my reasoning? Or have you decided maybe
I have a point?
Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free
Sat, 30 May 1998
> Hey Russell!
>
> Answered all of the above questions 2 weeks ago. What's the matter?
> Can't find anything wrong with my reasoning? Or have you decided maybe
> I have a point?
What point? Your last letter didn't say anything interesting. I
don't see much to reply to.
Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free
Sun, 31 May 1998
Great cop-out Russell! All I really want you to get is that you have no
right to critique something you have not got the intelligence to
understand or the ability to do. Other people do and should not be
misled by web sites like yours.
Subject: Re: Becoming (and being) Debt Free
Sun, 31 May 1998
Okay, if it makes you feel good to think so then go right ahead.
(I was serious though.)
Your way of life, job, commute, trade your time for someone else's
future, is the normal, "reasonable" way. Therefore, you should listen
to your own favorite quote and try something different. Amway is
different.
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over
again expecting different results.
Like writing letters that say the same thing over and over again, perhaps?
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 12 May 1998 Hi, Russ... You might want to let your readers know that you've updated your mail since Jan. 31. I've been checking back often for weeks, thinking, "When is he gonna update again?" Finally, out of curiosity, I just happened to check, & found all these February responses. Anyway, just a reminder. Good stuff, as always.
Subject: i'm expanding a business (hee hee)...
Wed, 13 May 1998
Hi there Mr Glasser, just got done poring over your amway page and your
personal web page. Our experiences, as far as being approached and
"prospected" by Amway dudes, have a lot in common regarding Amway; I,
however, have no burning desire to "save" anybody, ha ha - but neither
do I have any desire to dump my scarce time and money into Amway. Even
if it IS an actual opportunity, there are too many fun things going on
in my life that I simply do not want to abandon (enter Amazombie mode:
but what about time money and freedom?!?!? HAHAHA!!!). Anyhoo, I wanted
to let you know that your page was one of the many that helped me in my
decision to not enter Amway. Thank you for the time and effort you took
back in 1996 - it is still bearing fruit now. How is THAT for "residual
income," eh kids?!? :-)
On a more personal note, you might want to check out a band
called Shonen Knife if you have not already done so. Musically, they are
unlike anything else you have listed on your web page. Their sense of
humor and of the absurd, however, seems to be very congruent with what
yours might be. I am not an Amway dude; I *am* however a Shonen Knife
evangelist and try to spread the Good News whenever I can, ha ha!!!
WARNING: addictive!!!
Take care and good luck.
Subject: Questions for you
Wed, 13 May 1998
Dear Mr. Glasser
I'm just curious if you can't see the same type of manipulation/change
of attitude and values associated with other businesses in the corporate
world? I agree that I have seen many of the dark sides and possibilities
you express - but why is there so much time pinpointing AMWAY, when this
cult-like control has been here for centuries in forms more familiar to
us? I am presently informing myself about Amway and World Wide Group - I
am getting info from all sides and keeping an open mind. So far I do
believe that this business is an option worth sincerely working on for 2
years, if nothing else other than to prove it wrong. I am planning on
practicing the actions outlined in business trainings - but it is MY
choice to change many of my liberal views or not. I realize that many
people express values I may not agree with - but that does not restrict
me from progressing in the business - it is clear, that I can take what
I like and leave the rest.
I am interested to hear your response to this - please write back to me
by the end of the week because my e-mail address will be changing. I
obviously have faith in myself achieving financial freedom in this
business - but I do intend to deny many of the values other successful
distributors choice to voice. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Subject: amway Fri, 15 May 1998 Hi, my name is *****, i was really glad to have come across your story, I am from India, and Amway has just ben launched in here. can you even imagine what is the potential ofr amway in India, look at he population her, every body seems to be attractedto the prospects of being rich quickly. thanks fpor the info.i really wish people cud get thumbs outta ther assholes and start thinking.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Fri, 15 May 1998
Russell,
I'm not going to "flame you" for having an opinion (and a rather meticulous
one, at that). However, you said it yourself, that you have never been an
official distributor, but you feel that you have gathered sufficient
information to compose a rather intelligent sounding thesis. I am going to
try to correct you, though on what I have learned by being in the business
for 13 mos.
First of all, the quarterly functions that you mentioned cost only around
$65. for the entire weekend; this encompasses about 50 hours of information
that we can use to help us build our businesses. These are voluntary, of
course. I have been to three and I feel they were worth every penny. If you
were to ask any reputable doctor how much he spends on a seminar to help him
learn new ideas about his industry, I would imagine you would find that they
spend upwards of $1100. for a one day seminar. WATTA BAHGAN!!
Anyway, we could go tit for tat on your perception verses mine, but I want
you to know why I believe in the Amway opportunity, and why it appealed to me.
I am a 34 year old father of two young, beautiful boys, and have a gorgeous
wife who works very hard as an R.N., and is a cosmetologist on the side. I
work in a family business for my father, who built this company from the
ground up. If you have ever worked for family, you know how trying that can
be. However, I make a pretty good living, and the future looks decent. The
problem is, I don't like the idea of my wife "having" to work just so that we
can maintain our current lifestyle, which is this:
A beautiful 1000sf house on 1/3 acre of land, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths
No discretionary income to speak of, which means about 2 dates a month, if
we're lucky!
No vacations to speak of ( I personally haven't had a 7 day vacation since I
was in college). Even our Honeymoon was a 5-day trip to a 2nd class resort
in Jamaica.
I could go on and on, but the point I am trying to make is this: the Amway
opportunity gave me a light at the end of the tunnel. It provided me with a
way to kick-start my dreams back into existence. It's not just because it
was the "Amway" plan, but, because it happened to be, I grabbed hold and
won't let go. I will admit that I thought I knew all there was to know about
Amway, and, if I had known I was invited to an Amway meeting, I would not
have gone. Period. BUT, after I was able to look at it objectively, without
any prejudice or bias, I saw that it was and IS a feasible, doable business.
Don't get me wrong, it is a very difficult business, and, you are right that
it does take quite a long time and a LOT of work with introducing the plan to
new people and dealing with all of the negative out there ( kind-of like what
your web site is...), but make no mistake about it... this thing works for
EVERYBODY who gives it their all, and LISTENS to their upline, most of whom
have gone and done what we are wanting to do. I know that there are bad
distributors out there who try to snake people out of their money and prey on
people's dreams, but I hold myself to a higher standard. I talk only to
those people who, like myself, are looking for a way to bring their wives
home from work, or long for time to spend with their children. If they tell
me that they aren't interested, fine. They are still my FRIENDS. I don't
harass people or try to make them feel like losers just because they don't
see what I see. We are all God's children, worthy of respect.
We are affiliated with the Britt System in Amway. Bill Britt has built a
very large organization since 1970 on the principles that have made many men
and women successful through the ages. These are Biblical principles,
Russell, and what you refer to as tactics are not taught in our organization.
I do not condemn what you do, because I know that what you are doing in your
mind is trying to keep people from getting taken in by something that, in my
humble opinion, you do not fully understand. I challenge you to attend one
of these functions, be it a convention or a smaller seminar and rally. I
think that what you will find are a group of regular, God-fearing, ambitious
people who are simply trying to find a way out of debt, a way to experience
true freedom through financial independence, and meeting a lot of like-minded
people who just want something better from life than the regular 9 to 5 can
give them.
Please let me know if any of this makes sense to you, Russell. Like I said
before, I believe that you think you are doing the public a favor, but I just
hope that you don't steal someone's dream in the process. I wish you well.
Sincerely,
*****, Proud Amway Distributor
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 15 May 1998 Hey, I haven't had time to read all your "stuff" about Amway, or "Scamway" as my husband and I like to call it. What I have seen makes me happy!!!!!!! Keep up the good work. Needless to say, we had a horrible experience also.. Absolutely HORRIBLE!!!!! I'm glad I found this sight.
Subject: Amway bails out GM Fri, 15 May 1998 Hi. We have an Amway dealer at our work. (He won't be there long because he is going to get a Cadillac and make a fortune and leave) In the mean time he is pounding us with the beauties of Amway. His latest - A few years back Amway had to give money to GM because GM could not make it's payroll. He knows this is true because the people at Amway told him, and the would not lie. Can you shed any light on this one? It would be great to give him a documented answer to this piece of financial news. Thanks for your help.
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 2)
Sat, 16 May 1998
Russell Glasser wrote:
>
> > So are you still in school, in the software business, or are you doing
> > something else?
> >
>
> Graduated last June, worked in a small virtual reality company for
> most of a year, and now I'm moving on to get better pay and be with my
> girlfriend.
>
So where you going to work? Still in Santa Cruz? We live in Watsonville.
Though we've been saved from Amway by you and others, we're going to get into
a legitimate network marketing company. If you're not turned off to the
whole concept, you'd be dynamite in one. Ever heard of USANA?
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 2)
Tue, 19 May 1998
As much as I appreciate your compliment, I am not any more kindly disposed
towards any MLM than I am towards Amway. A good general commentary to read on
the subject is . My girlfriend got
harrassed at her work place by Alpine distributors. My sister recently got
sucked into, and later left the company of, some Equinox distributors.
My feeling is not that some MLM's are built better or worse than others, but
rather that the very idea of MLM is based on a flawed foundation which
actually adds MORE middlemen to the buying and selling process, and inevitably
serves to enrich a small few by taking money from the pockets of other
distributors. I'm afraid you're not ever going to get me interested in USANA.
To answer your other question, I'm moving out of Santa Cruz next month.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 17 May 1998 Hi, was looking through some amway info on the web and found your page. I work for a computer consulting firm that specializes in things like setting up networks and troublshooting computers etc. We recently closed our retail store (sold software, hardware, etc) to focus more on our consulting firm. During our last week of business at the retail store, of which I was the manager, I had an interesting run in with a couple of suits who stopped in who said they worked with a company (which was suspiciously never named) that sold educational software. I let him know that we were closing and from there we just kind of talked about the computer industry. They left and I hadn't given them a second thought until one of them called back a couple of days later wanting to know if I would be interested in looking at a business plan of theirs. I told him I actually had a contract with my employer and I was actually pretty happy w/ where I was and not interested at this time at working for another company. He said that we weren't necessarily talking about my leaving the company I worked for (hmm... sounds contradictory to me) and asked how I would feel about a company that could sell things for 30 to 40% lower than any other company in town. My first thought, which I regret I didn't voice at the time, was 'man, most computer products can't even make 30 or 40% margins to begin with. He asked again if we might be able to meet, so I told him I would be pretty tied up cleaning things out of the retail store the following week. The Monday following that week, he called again, at which time I was busy. He called again later that day at which time I was still busy. I finally got to him on his third call on Tuesday (man this guy doesn't give up). We set a time just this past Friday to meet, which I ended up not making it and didn't get a chance to call and let him know. For now, this is where it stands, and I am sure I will get a call from him on Monday. I am not sure what I want to tell this guy, although by nature I will generally tell ppl exactly what I think. Although if he is not amway I am going to feel very foolish when I tell him off. My main reason for writing this to you, is to see what you think, and if you could offer any suggestions, I would be very thankful.
Mon, 18 May 1998 I play the guitar badly too, tried the juggling thing but couldn't keep my eyes in front of me..... I enjoyed your story. Ever thought of switching from puter stuff to novelist? You have a nice smile. Have a nice day.....
Sorry, ladies, but flattery will get you nowhere -- I'm already spoken for.
Mon, 18 May 1998 Hello I read your story, when I was researching Amway as part of a beauty company's market report.I work for a market research company in London. I'd never heard of Amway in the UK, although I know they exist here. Do you know whether the same tactics are true of similar companies like BeautiControl and Mary Kay.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Tue, 19 May 1998 Dear Russell, I would like to thank you for all your information. Tonight was my first meeting with an Amway rep, and after the meeting, I was feeling quite gun-ho about the whole ordeal. But some skeptisism remained in my mind, and I decided for myself to search the net for information. But when I entered a search engine, I realized I still had not been told the name of the company I would work for. After searching through the booklet that the rep gave me, I finally found Amway's name (barely). The biggest part of my skeptisism probably came from the fact that the Amway rep. never gave me the price on any goods he sold (since I currently hold down a job in the retail buisiness, I would assume), and any valid arguements I had were avoided (quite smoothly too, I should add). After having read your story, and looking at Amway's extremely vague web page, I have seen enough to make me sick. Thanks for saving me what little cash I don't have. : -)
Subject: Thanks!!!!!!!!
Tue, 19 May 98
Dear Russell,
Hi, my name is Lori, and I too have come dangerously close to diving off
the cliff into" Amway Hell". My fiance has had this guy trying to get
together with him for the past several weeks from Amway. I gave my extremely
skeptical opinion and gave it no more thought. All I have ever heard about
Amway has been negative, but I have never experienced the "TRAP", until
tonight. This guy convinced Ray (my fiance) after several attempts, to join
us in "the comfort of our own home" for an enlightening evening. I went into
the evening very begrudgingly. I was not ready to give up one of my only free
evenings to be bored to tears. But, realizing that Ray is more easily drawn
in by these sort of things, I decided to be the voice of reason. This guy
kept us for two and a half hours. I think he would've spent the night if I
hadn't become ever so subtle with my "it's been fun, I'm ready for bed" hints.
I was very polite and attentive for a while, and then I started asking the
"hard" questions. I almost felt sorry for the guy. I was not being rude or
offensive in any way, I simply wanted to know why I would want to become that
annoying friend or relative who was always trying to make people feel
obligated to buy my stuff? I also wanted to know why would I or anyone else
want to buy Amway products instead of others? I also point blank asked him why
I have never heard anything good about Amway? I am sure you know the type of
answers I received. But I know that he was taken back by my "let's get to the
point" attitude. I once attended a meeting for a company called Equinox, you
have probably heard of them. They placed ads in the classified that were
totally misleading and to make a long story short, they completely offended me
by meeting number three. I brought good old dad along for him to check this
opportunity of a lifetime out for me. When he tryed to ask a question in the
middle of an "inspirational" moment, he was rold he would have to wait until
the proper time to ask questions. The meeting, I was told, would last about
an hour. Well, an hour and forty-five minutes into it my dad got up to leave.
They called an intermission, break, whatever. The guy in chare wanted to
speak to me alone. My dad said he would wait outside for me. I was not
convinced that there was a scam going on...yet, so I stayed behind. This guy
started right in on how I am an adult, and a lovely young woman. I should not
let my dad influence me to not join and become an instant success. He
proceded to tell me that it was time to start living my own life and making my
own decisions without help from my dad. I was so utterly offfended, I stood
up and told him, " you obviously have no idea what you are talking about,
because I do live my own life, I do make my own decisions, I happen to value
my father's opinion who already had better sense than I for walking out five
minutes ago." Any way, I was supposed to be making a long story short,
instead I think I made a short story long! So, due to that experience, I had
no intentions of signing my life away to Amway. But you are very right, they
plan and rehearse for those tough questions. He did have me wavering though.
I am ashamed to admit it now, but there were thoughts going through my mind
that shouldn't have. I AM SMARTER THAN THAT!!!! Maybe that's why I turned to
the internet in search of some convincing. I totally enjoyed your article!
Not just because you knocked some sense back into me, you also have a very
entertaining style of writing. I myself have a ball telling stories, as you
seem to also. I am putting your page in my favorites and instructing Ray to
read it as soon as he get's home from work tomorrow. He needs to read it
worse than I did. Bless his heart but I am the one with the logic in this
couple!(HAH, HAH) I am far from being a typist, so please excuse my silly
errors. It's also 2:00AM. I have to tell you though, I found my self so
wrapped up in the story, I'm curious to know how your career and "anti-Amway"
life is going. I am also a college student with bills out the butt and dreams
of that oblvious phrase, "DEBT-FREE". You probably receive an incredible
amount of feedback from both people who are in the same boat and those who
have fallen out! But anyway, I'd love to hear back from you. You could maybe
even give me a few hints on how to figure this contraption(computer) out!
Hope to hear from you and chat
more! Thanks for the "lifeboat"!!!!!!!!!!
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 19 May 1998 I enjoyed your site about Amway. I have a friend that is about to venture into the Amway family, and I would like to research her potential decision before hand. I am interested in any lawsuits, or FTC rulings that are directly associated with Amway. I recently went to a meeting with my friend and found that you were correct on many of the tell tail signs especially the breath spray. There was a distributor next to me spraying his breath at least once every five minutes. I would greatly appreciate any expedient information that you could point me to before my friend makes her decision to invest in the Amway system.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 19 May 1998 THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!! You web page saved my boyfriend and I a lot of trouble....he was recently approached by an Amway recruiter who gave the typical speech, and convinced him to meet for dinner a few nights later. After hearing the pitch, he was ECSTATIC! He was so determined that he could make 200 grand a year, and he would be helping everyone save money, and stop the evil raging Hell hole of non wholesale goods....blah, blah, blah. Scary enough, after only one night of drinking coffee with this guy he was completely brainwashed. On the phone with him that night, I couldn't get him to stop talking about this "great company" this and that....and what he was saying was EXACTLY what you have stated here. I told him to do some more research before even considering this (since the circumstances just seemed a little spooky to me....typically people don't walk up to you out of nowhere and decide to offer them a "great job" without even knowing who they are). And thanks to your WONDERFUL page on Amway, he wrote a letter to the recruiter and told him that he wouldn't be joining. I'd hug you if I could. Thanks!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Wed, 20 May 1998
Dear Russel,
Your story made for some very interesting reading. It has obviously
been well thought out and a good deal of time has gone into putting together
a web site that is compedative if not superior to many profit generating
sites. I wonder if your negative recruiting experience was in the recent
past and what continues to motivate your mission.I am also interested in the
scope of your mission, are you out to save all possible recruits into any
and all MLMs or are you specifically interested in saving potential Amway
victims?
Have you done similar research into any other MLMs and if so what are
your findings? Would you be interested in doing a crossreferenced study to
compare
Amway to others or each against their own propaganda?
As you may be able to tell I am not a computer science student, what I
will tell you is that I am someone who appreciates intelligence, integrity
and determination. Your site generated interest enough to read with the
content presented effectively enough to solicite a response.
Congratulations.
I do not have an email address but will have access to a computer for the
next week or so, if you are interested in responding I will check for a
posting on your site.
Thanks for the entertaining and enlightening reading looking forward to
future conversation.
Subject: AMWAY Wed, 20 May 1998 Bravo! Some time when I get a chance I'll relate their attempt to assimilate me (also failed!) Basically I was suspicious of their mind control tricks, saw through their appeal to greed, brushed aside their attempt at flattery, was unimpressed with their distribution idea, thanked them for their time and sent them packing. My girlfriend felt bad about them coming all that way to talk to us and at the last moment asked them to leave a motivational package (I saw "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" so I made sure I slept in a room far away from this material. I watched their video tape. Short on content, big on cliches, could easily have missed the association with AMWAY. Listened to their audio tape, appeared to be an appeal to "get on board" made a big deal that in any revolution their are those that have to forsight to get involved and there are the folks who sit on the sideline. I listened to half of it and decided I have more worthwhile things to do with my life than subject myself to an attempt at mind control. Keep up the good work. By the way, watch out for "Primerica". Traveler's group has figured out how to exploit this technique too.
Subject: finished your amway story... Wed, 20 May 1998 Thanks for posting that story. Here is my situation. I have heard the whole Amway story from a friend. He knows someone who is destroying their life because of Amway(impending divorce, poverty etc). I have been approached by a co-worker who is into something called "Longevity". they are health food bars with Bruce Jenner as their spokesman. It sounds like a pyramid scheme. he even mentioned that it better than herbelife or Amway. Witch I thought was weird. Have you heard anything about Longevity? I want to get some info on the company before I confront him.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 20 May 1998 Well I just don't know what to think about this Amway stuff. Let me explain: I am a little concerned after reading your stories about the Amway Group because I know somebody who is very involved with Amway and I mean deeply involved he has put everything into this thing. He gave up a well paid job, he used to drive a BMW had a small mortgage on his house etc,,,, and now he has re-mortgaged his house, has a less demanding job with a large drop in income, drives a company car and never has any money and he says he is gonna be rich with this Amway thing in a few years and not have to work anymore and makes these far out promises about what the future holds for him he has already been with Amway for about 3 years and recently told me about some meeting he had with some bloke Geoff Durell or something like that who is Emerald?????? The main reason why I have been reading up on Amway is because this person is my ex-husband and we have an 8 year old daughter and these far out promises are made to her and I believe he tries to brainwash her into believing all this stuff about him becoming rich and I don't like it. An example: she goes to stay with him for a weekend he washes her hair with Amway shampoo which he tells her is the best shampoo and that what mummy uses ( Pantene shampoo) is rubbish and that Mummy should be using Amway toothpaste and not that rubbish she buys in the supermarket) etc,,,, I get so mad and my poor daughter gets caught up in the middle of it and it's not fair. I just don't know what to think I really don't. Everytime he comes to pick my daughter up if he sits down you can guarantee he'll fall asleep he is always tired from these endless meetings etc,,, I can feel myself getting mad so I'm gonna go now but I'd love to hear from you if you have the time to send me a message.
Subject: Sat, 23 May 1998 bias...negative or positive is still bias - please don't pretend to be objective - only the greedy get stung.
I don't think I did pretend to be objective, did I?
Subject: thank you buddy!! Sun, 24 May 1998 I read Jasons page earlier and now yours. I roared when I read about the conversation you had with Ted in the car! Talk about funny! The whole thing would make a really cool movie, we could just change the name!! Neat idea? I was approached a few weekends ago by a girl I work with and I have gone to 2 meetings and one in Montreal (pep rally). I have noticed in this short space of time the change!! I even noticed a change in myself. Just a tiny thing but it was enough to wake me. My friend said she thought it sounded like a cult and I think it really is. What do we do to warn people? Should I warn this girl that prospected me or let her go? The reason I decided not to join were the little details that annoyed me. Like they can "write everything off in taxes as business" but that everyone has to pay for the meetings?? Come on what b.s. That they immediately want you to sign up your family and friends that people that trust you and have faith in you?? That the guy that ran our meetings is supposed to be a millionaire but I noticed that his suit was from the mid 1980's. And the breath spray every 5 minutes like some kinda drug, and the after meeting coffees (notice no one DRINKS??) I had a beer at my first one and woah you should have seen the looks. So the next time I talked nonstop (and loudly) about the beauty and class of wine, vineyards, money, blablabla. (So rebellious!) They just listened with inclined heads agreeing... Well pretty scary all in all don't you think. Well think, we are the lucky ones. Imagine the depression when reality comes. I found that as soon as I went to the first meeting I became very crabby at work and very depressed. Last night I was in total confusion. Today I am clear and happy as I have read these pages. It is emotional abuse. It would be nice to commiserate with you as I know they will be calling me tomorrow, and the day after and so on. Thank you again for your awesome and funny story!!
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 24 May 1998 Well after reading or rather glancing through your pages, my suspicions were confirmed. As of now you can count me on your side and as some other will say "I saw the light". I will also make sure to warn my family and friends of the "Amway" system.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Sun, 24 May 1998
Sir,
I have just read parts of your web site and am appalled at your
level of ignorance. I am not affiliated with Amway at this time although it
does present an interesting way of making money. I just want to comment
that I find that most people insult or criticize things that they do not
understand or perhaps have failed to put forth the appropriate effort to
accomplish personal goals. It does not matter what product or service a
person may strive to peddle, it is through public contact that a measure of
success is seen. The rally's you commented on do not seem atypical as
compared to the rally's that upper level management of so-called "good
companies." If you want someone to motivate you or a group of people you
don't get a person who is new to the business to speak you find the most
succesful person that you can to hype it up. To put this into perspective,
I would not be too excited to hear my local computer store salesman trying
to motivate me towards success. But I would be truly fired up to hear Bill
Gates speak of how he built himself into a multi-billionaire.
I just wanted to share these few comments with you and I wish you luck
in whatever endeavers you pursue in your life.
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 25 May 1998 Hello. First, let me say that I don't even know you. But that doesn't matter. I could see that you could be aperson for me to talk to. My name is *****, and I have a brother who just got into Amway a month ago, and is hyped over it, becouse he is actually getting checks. but he doesn't sell anything. He just gets other people to do a home shopping program. The more people, the more money, basically. It is apparently a new program from the corporation, which a lot of people I know are raving about. I just wanted to ask if you knew anything of the new style, and if possible, you could send me some info on the subject.
Subject: Finished your website Tue, 26 May 1998 Dear Russel, I would like to thank you for the effort you have put forth to give a different point of view. I am 23, married, with one baby girl. I am basically like a lot of other folks my age...BROKE! An old friend hit me up about a week ago with "a business opportunity". I, unfortunately, was not instantly skeptical, as I should have been. I have not given them a single penny. However, I was so convinced that this was a good oportunity that I have already started talking to people. Actually, I have a pretty definite prospect in a coworker. He is in a similar situation as myself. I even tried to get my sister. Of course my Dad heard "the plan" at least what I knew of it, and he told me I was crazy. I knew from the beginning that it was Amway because my friend actually brought a catalog to our meeting and I saw Amway at the top of the catalog in very small letters. Anyway, I decided to do a little research before I jumped headlong in to this deal. I was going to spend part of my savings for a motorcycle to get in. ($170.00) I have read several websites that are similar to yours. This one was the most informative. I have read lists of the terms used by Amway distributors and was very bothered by their definitions of loser(anyone who doesn't get in),and job (just over broke), etc. Anyone that promotes referring to others in this way must need an attitude adjustment. The point of all this is to say, I am convinced. I don't see how I can honestly take this "opportunity" when there are so many things that they promote that are basically dishonest. I don't think that they recognize that it is dishonest, but as you say, they get caught up in the hype. I think this plan might work, but to be an honest business, one would have to probably stay away from the books and tapes, and the meetings. Just from my meeting with one distrubutor of two months, and listening to three tapes, one thing is clear: They definitely play on the "get rich" part of the human brain. If that is heard enough, I guess one would start to believe it. There are some positive things that they teach such as positive self image, positive attitude, etc. Anybody with common sense can figure that out. Once again, Thanks for the information and for having the desire to try to help others get the complete picture of this company. By the way, I think I will go ahead and get the motorcycle that I wanted anyway.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 26 May 1998 Russell, I quit Amway over a year ago after giving it my all for about six months and going nowhere except in and out of the proverbial poor house thanks to tapes, books and meetings. I thought some of those folks were my friends, but when I was the victim of a horrendous crime and just walked around the following week's convention like a zombie with everybody telling me that "it can happen" blah blah blah and then I was fired from my job a couple of weeks later, let me tell you what those "friends" did. Not a phone call to say "hey, we're thinking about you/know you're going through a hard time." The only call I got was to remind me that I only had a couple of more points before my 100 for the month, knowing that I was more concerned about keeping a roof over my head. They withheld distributor checks from me, saying I owed them money when I had never said that I would buy all those tapes from them. And as far as that 100% money back guarantee?? Cut me a break -- I pulled teeth for MONTHS from Amway yahoos at corporate just to get a measly $30 when I should have gotten four times that. I liked some of the products, but it wasn't worth losing my life over and that's how I felt during those six months in Amway. I am an American Indian so all the money, money, money business and pledging allegiance to a flag under which my grandparents were removed simply because they were Indian people just wasn't my bag and I slowly was ignored by the upline because I wasn't conforming to the Amway gig. Thank God!! Loved what parts of your story I read and glad you said it. I QUIT AMWAY! I'M A QUITTER! Oh, boo hoo :)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Tue, 26 May 1998 I am not partial to either side. My only question is why would you spend so much time degrading this company? Don't you have something better to do with your time. You have motivated me to go talk to my friend who is a distributer and possibly get into his business.
Subject: links
Wed, 27 May 1998
Russell
How can you have a link on your page jam-packed full of lies and
propaganda by a person never in the Amway business? You seem to be an
intelligent guy and the link doesn’t do your page justice. The ranting
in the link are more like the bully in school who would called you names
and made faces at you for doing something he was afraid to do. Do your
page justice, drop the bully.
(Aside:) Which link is he talking about??? (Aloud:) Ah, you must be referring to Amway: Just the facts, no more fiction. Couldn't agree with you more. Truly a lot of empty ranting and bullying, as you said. I'd take it out, but people need to hear both sides, eh? (Smirks) (Exit stage left)
Subject: Amway Wed, 27 May 1998 Hi, Russell! I'm Cal, and I just started to look at your Amway info. I'm totally blind and your pages so far seem very speech-friendly, so I'm grateful. I wonder if you could fill me in as to whether Amway targets any particular sort of personality. I know someone who is involved and very enthusiastic, and to be honest I'm a little concerned. Thanks for reading and responding to this. I truly am grateful. Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 27 May 1998 Great! I sent you an E-mail not too long ago (earlier this afternoon). I guess the main thing I'd like to know is how I can help somebody who's already been sucked in. If you have suggestions, "please" LET ME KNOW!!! Gratefully, Cal.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Thu, 28 May 1998 Short and sweet , I dont need to say anything further .You experienced what I'm currently about to put an end to . I wish you the best with your computer skills and whatever your future endevors shall be .God Bless your courage and strength to be a real man .Keep the guiding light burning , for the path that many are walking on need it .Thanks for unlocking that little fear in the head that says go ahead you have nothing to lose instead of (Are you crazy !!!!!????).
Subject: My reply to your Amwaypage Thu, 28 May 1998 I had written once before to you, but feel like venting again, sorry. My husband got into Amway after being apprached by his boss. That was 2 years ago. I watched quietly (my mistake) as Amway slowly started invading every area of our lives. I watched my husband go out after working 12 hours pouring concrete to try and bring more people into our "family". I watched as he spent hundreds of dollars on "tools" to help him figure out what he was doing wrong when the business didn't grow fast enough. I watched a sweet, caring, senstive man turn into someone who was worried about posture, appearances, money, what the "upline" thought, and saddest of all, I watched him put people down if they weren't interested in what he had to offer. My little sister died this year at 11 years old, and it really hit home for me, life is just too short. I gave him a choice, Amway or me. I now live with my mother, and get letters all the time from him saying he just wants to build a future for us. Well, there is no us anymore to build a future for, but he is still going at it. I admire his determination, but I question his priorities. I have a panic disorder which kept me from attending functions and meetings with him, his upline told him I was a negative person, and I was't helping him any with my attitude. Since when was having an opinion about something so wrong? Here is what I saw, materialistic people, people who were putting on a front so they would seem better than others. I saw deceit and lies when my husband was doing phone contacting, I saw my family cringe whenever we came to visit, knowing that he was going to talk about the wonders and miracles of Amway the whole time. I watched in horror as he tried to make a contact at my sister's funeral. I watched a good christian family emmancipate their 16 year old son when he started getting into trouble. I talked to him, this poor young man needed his parents, but they were never home, no one was there to provide dicipline or support. He said he thought if he got in trouble, they would have to stay home more. Instead of taking time off from Amway, they just refused to deal with him. Now I have lost my husband, and have to start my life again, I've had to get three jobs, and you know what, I love them. I would like to know what on earth is so awful about working? What is so terrific about travelling all over the country telling crowds of people "your story". I would think that would get old after a while. My husband lost a lot also, but the sad thing is, he doesn't even realize it. He lost a wife who adored him ( and still does ), he lost friends who wouldn't see him any more because he wouldn't leave Amway home, he is losing money, and I see him losing himself, soon, very soon, he won't be the same man I married. I mourn for the loss of that man, the world is losing someone very special and talented. Well, I've vented, I don't really feel better though, because I know more people are going to be going through the same thing. Shame on you Amway for breaking up families, why don't you tell prospective distributers about that? All I heard was that married couples in Amway stayed together more often then couples not in Amway. Well, I think that statistic is a little off. But then that's just my opinion.
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 29 May 1998 I AM HOPING THIS LETTER ARRIVES TO YOU. I AM DROWNING IN AMWAY. MY HUSBAND GOT IN A YEAR AGO.SINCE THAT TIME WE HAVE LOST OUR HOUSE AND ARE NOW LIVING WITH MY PARENTS. ALL OUR MONEY IS SPENT AND SAVED FOR TAPES,BOOKS AND FUNCTIONS.FAMILY REUNION IS COMING UP. WE HAVE A 14 MO. OLD AND SO I HAVE AVOIDED MANY OPENINGS (WHICH IS WHERE MY HUSBAND IS NOW) I HAVE BEEN LABELED AS NEGATIVE BUT NOT TO WORRY THEY CLAIM I WILL COME AROUND WHEN THE MONEY DOES. WHERE IS IT? I HAVE KNOWN ALL ALONG THIS IS WRONG BUT IF I SPEAK UP I FEAR MY MARRIAGE WILL FAIL.WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED ALMOST 6 YEARS AND IT HAS BEEN A GOOD MARRIAGE. WE HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN CHURCH, FRIENDS ETC. WE HAVE LOST ALOT OF THAT. I WANT MY HUSBAND BACK. IS THERE HOPE. HOW CAN I GET HIM OUT. PLEASE REPLY. "A" Subject: Re: Your Amway Reply To Russell Fri, 29 May 1998 Hi, My name is Ginny. I am Russell's girlfriend, and you may recognize me from my story I have on his Amway Site. Russell reads to me most of his Amway related mail as he gets it, and your letter touched us both. I asked him if I could reply to to your letter because I felt I could identify with you pretty well. So that brings me to writing you this. I really wasn't sure exactly at that point what I would say to you, but then the next letter came... Shortly after we talked about your situation, Russell read another letter that he had not read yet, and it was from a woman who sadly enough is losing her husband and livelyhood thanks to Amway, and she wanted advise on how to get him back. Her letter was as compelling as as yours, and we couldn't let her go unanswered either. We wanted to offer help, but how... thats when I realized that since you and this other lady are going through such similar circumstances you might be able to really offer eachother some support. You both will most likely totally understand what the other is going through, so what better form of support is there? I would like to ask your permission to put this other lady in contact with you, and I will ask her the same. I see this as a grand opportunity for the beginnings of a much needed support group and would like to see it grow from here. There are so many people out there who are crying out for someone to listen, that Russell and I can't possibly reach everyone, nor would we know all the answers. But with your help and the help of many others to follow(sad that there is a need in the first place huh?)some real good could be born from this. I am so glad that Russell gave me the opportunity to get my story out to others. I felt so abused and victimized by the time I was done with Amway, that I had no place to really vent any of that anger and sorrow, until Russell gave me space to vent. Hearing all of your stories out there has been a tremendous acknowledgement to me that I was valid in feeling how I was feeling and it wasn't an overreactive imagination. You and this other lady could be a tremendous help to eachother (just through acknowledgement alone), and possibly others who have experienced the negative effects of the cult like environment of Amway, and "the system". I heard your story, and so will others. Please write me back and let me know what you think about my proposal. Very best regards, Ginny Subject: Re: Your Amway Reply To Russell Fri, 29 May 1998 Thank-you so much for your response. I think putting people in contact with others in the same situation is a wonderful idea, and you are more than welcome to send anyone my way! It could be the start of a much needed forum for those of us left behind while our spouses are trying to "get rich". Finding a place to air my feeling, while not mending mt heart, has made me realize how many people are affected in much the same way. We need each other, and what you are proposing is perfect, so go for it, I'm in!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 29 May 1998 Dear Russell, I read your story over here in Tokyo. I know the process that you went through. Phil didn't handle himself very well. Ted didn't do anything wrong. He was just doing his best to follow the system. You turned out to be kind of a "prospect from hell", didn't you? I understand the annoyance, perhaps worse, that you felt when you realized that the process by which you were led into the system was programmed rather than spontaneous. Your conclusion that Ted really wasn't interested in you or your computer skill when he first struck up a conversation certainly wasn't unreasonable. I have often thought the same things. Over here, the Japanese Amway that I have seen and participated in strikes me as much worse. You should step back and view what you participated and observed from a marketing point of view. The system did allow Ted, a relatively inexperience distributor, to reach, with a high degree of success, someone like yourself. That means, someone who is has a very high innate level of skepticism, perhaps even bordering on negativism. In the regular world of sales, this would be considered an excellent training system. Whatever field you look at in depth, if you are in business, the most important function of all is sales. Without the people who can, day in and day out, go out in the field and meet prospects and close sales, there is no success. I wonder, from reading your essay, if you really can grasp that fundamental reality. If so, then you know that it is normal for any serious salesperson to develop a standard prospecting routine, a standard introduction and presentation, a method of handling objections, and a closing sequence, including multiple alternatives. All of the former are practiced, rehearsed, scripted, polished, and fine-tuned. That is, if the salesperson strives to be successful. It doesn't really matter whether the product is automobiles, houses, vitamins, stocks, or advertising. In fact, whether you are aware of it or not, you run into the prepared sales sequence daily in nearly every area where a purchase on your part might potentially happen. Sometimes you might notice, especially if the salesperson is not sharp or focused. But my question to you is this: do you take it personally? Do you feel degraded or angry at the salesperson or his employer? Do you find yourself filled with righteous wrath which inspires you to find ways to "expose" the insincerity of the Sears or GM salesperson? Of course you don't. Then maybe you might find it within yourself to ask yourself, "Why was I so upset to learn that Ted was following an excellent sales sequence? Isn't it encouraging to think that some person has at his/her disposal a vehicle that will provide them with a level of training, via tapes, that will allow a level of proficiency to bring even the skeptical likes of you to the point where the "prospect" (you) can get enough information to make an informed intelligent decision that Amway is not for you? There is nothing like that training/support system over here for Amway Japanese distributors. They are in business for themselves alright, and they are supposed to figure out how to do it. So they struggle to master complex product demonstrations. And they wear Amway badges, etc. And they are hurt because people think that they are a cult. Just like you said. But what is wrong with wanting to develop your own business on the side of your job? What is the problem with seeking to develop a low risk supplemental income? Or, if you are ambitious, maybe even breaking the dependency on employment by another person somewhere down the line. Sure, everyone sometimes dreams of what it would be like to be rich. Haven't you, Russell? I mean, when you placed a $1.00 bill down on a mega-million dollar state lottery ticket, didn't you think of what it would be like if you won? Does that mean you experienced "greed"? Having hope is, for many people, more important that anything else. Ted and some of the others you referred to in your report may have gotten their major benefit from their Amway experience simply from the hope for the future that it allowed them. Not the money. Just the belief that if they got off their couches and really committed and went out there and ran through the numbers, following the system, they could actually achieve their dreams. Probably they won't pay the price. As you pointed out, the vast majority don't. But that doesn't diminish the value of having the hope engendered by the knowledge that there is a way available. Why then, did/do you feel compelled to steal the chance for them to decide for themselves, Russell, by what we used to call many years ago, "poisoning the well", by preventing a person from being able to make a judgement or evaluation on what they experience. Just as you did. Nobody came running up to you, or slipped you negative info packages under the table, etc. Are you so elitist that you think only you can evaluate and find the truth by yourself? No tapes, no system here in Japan. No training and less likelihood of business success. Nevertheless, in the most discriminating, most difficult consumer market in the world, against all the odds, Amway Corporation is the second most successful foreign business in Japan after Coca Cola. Why do the Japanese people love the products so much? As an American businessman, I can't help but admire and feel good about a company that has managed, not only to penetrate this normally closed market, but surpass its Japanese competitors by leaps and bounds. And it is the Japanese distributors who make it possible. Without tapes, without training, without you to save them...
I had every intention of responding to this guy, but after brief consideration I decided that our mentalities are so far out of whack with each other that there was hardly anything we could possibly gain by communicating. I will just say a few brief words here. People who have my type of mentality will probably appreciate what I am about to say, while people with his mentality will probably think I'm an idiot. But then, that's nothing new...
"Whatever field you look at in depth, if you are in business, the most important function of all is sales. Without the people who can, day in and day out, go out in the field and meet prospects and close sales, there is no success. I wonder, from reading your essay, if you really can grasp that fundamental reality."
Apparently, Willy Loman here has worked himself up onto such a high pedestal that he believes that salesmen like himself are the beginning, the end, and the cornerstone of capitalism and the free world. In his Dilbert-esque world, there is no need for producers, creators, and designers. Mozart, Einstein, Spielburg, Edison, play second fiddle to the brilliant, hard-working folks who hawk their wares.
This is a typical attitude, not only among Amway salesmen but among most of the other salesmen I have ever known. In a company I worked with while I was in college, there were eventually about 20 people manning the phones and making cold calls at all hours of the day, and they would also lecture me about how critical and vital their services were. Their turnover rate was enormous. Every single one of those people was expendable, and most of them neither had nor needed college degrees.
My purpose here is not really to disparage salesmen but to put things in perspective. In any business, it seems to ME, anyway, that the most important task is actually creating a product for people to sell, not selling it. Some people believe that someone who can, as the saying goes, "sell ice to an Eskimo" is a great salesman and a great role model. As for me, I find that incredibly short-sighted and narrowly focused.
"Willy Loman" also asks what he thinks is a hypothetical question:
"In fact, whether you are aware of it or not, you run into the prepared sales sequence daily in nearly every area where a purchase on your part might potentially happen. Sometimes you might notice, especially if the salesperson is not sharp or focused. But my question to you is this: do you take it personally?"
As a matter of fact I do dislike and mistrust many of the other salesmen I encounter. Just because sales pitches are everywhere doesn't mean I have to like them. I detest being cold-called for great opportunities like switching phone companies or getting in on somebody else's idea of a hot stock pick. I prefer to trust my own consumer instincts, thank you very much. In many cases, the salesman's purpose is to convince me to buy something that I would not buy under normal circumstances. OF COURSE I don't trust them, and of course people list "car salesman" as one of the bottom professions for people you trust. Right after lawyers.
The only time I really feel inclined to speak to a sales professional is when I'm looking for a product I'm not familiar with and I need someone who knows more than I do to explain the details. But in my opinion, the more an Amway salesman knows, the more he tends to obfuscate and the less he tends to tell me the whole truth. There are entire tapes recorded that tell you how to not mention the Amway business until the very end of the presentation. This, in my opinion, is bad sales tactics.
Subject: Your Amway story Sat, 30 May 1998 Hey, I just read your site about Amway, and while I can fully understand where your coming from I must relate this story to you. A manager of a large Woolworths store applied for a home loan. The bank told him he needed a letter from the head office to state that he would have his job for the next five years. The head office said that they could not give him that guarantee because they were unsure of whether they could hold up against Amway in market share. I don't say Amway is perfect, but I tell you what. Not only do I know of a lot of successes in Amway, but I also know that if the growth that is occuring at the present continues, and Woolworths is scared, someone has to be there to put together the infrastructure. This aint no cult. If it were everyone would do what they were told. Let me tell you people can't help but try to blaze a new trail in building the business. I myself struggle to try and find the motivation to build the business, (I attend every function etc.), if this were a cult I would surely be under the influence and be able to build the business without thought or fear. You need to get your hands on the stats which show that just 3% of couple divorce in Amway. While about two thirds divorce outside. I bet I know of more failures than you too. If you looked at the failure rates of conventional small businesses you would find them to be similar to Amways. And that includes all the people who just get in and never even do anything. I bet you were to scared even to call your friends about the business. I know "you where checking it out first". Amway is not up for scrutinisation anymore. Just ask any quality member of the USA government what they think of the Amway business. They tell you it's the greatest thing that any person can do in their life. The thing is that most people won't. I don't know if you had access the the article that BRW put out but it sure goes against most of what you said. I'll leave you alone know but, I would like to comment on one last point. If you get involved with a franchise you will find a very similar operation as far as teaching material is concerned. With every business, the ones who get in at the start and discover they need teaching material are the ones who make the money from that area of the business. I'd also like to note that most successful people have read the books that distributors read. If you want to say anything against what I have said here that's fine.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 2)
Sat, 30 May 1998
how long before part 3 comes out? It sounds really similar to our
experiences as our friends have tried to get us into the business but
after reading your story so far i think we will decide against it.
Sat, 30 May 1998
Good timing. She just finished it last night. After some editing, I'll post
it this weekend.
Sun, 31 May 1998
OK THANK YOU VERY MUTCH!!!!
Subject: YourAmwaypage... Sat, 30 May 1998 I've got an idea! Why don't we form our own network andsell them books, tapes and functions? Then we could all walk the beaches of the world.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sat, 30 May 1998 I just wanted to add a few opinions (like yours and not all opinions are right). I am well educated with a BS degree in chemistry and minors in physics and math and an IQ of 180. I am a successful teacher and wrestling coach and also enjoyed a tremendous amount of success as an active wrestler. I'm not trying to blow my own horn here but just want to provide some background information. It seems to me that everyone that has written negative responses on your page have had negative people experiences not negative Amway experiences. No one forces anyone to go to meetings or purchase tapes but I find these functions and tapes very informational and motivating. By the way, don't professionals such as yourself pay thousands of dollars for training to be able to find employment as a programmer, etc. Thousands of people also spend thousands of dollars to attend seminars on motivation and pay hundreds of dollars for the tapes and books to supplement these seminars. These seminars help many people advance in their jobs or become more excited about working 60 hours per week for 40 to 50 years of their life! (not exciting to me!) These seminars teach people how to fish but do not give them the fishing pole whereas a group called World Wide Dream Builders gives you the fishing pole (actually they give you dynamite!). I could go on and on about positive experiences with WWDB but I have better things to do with my time (like securing my financial future!). By the way, everyone reading this should consider the source of the material you read on the internet. Believe it or not, people publish information on the internet that isn't worth the ATP your body uses in processing the information.(Take a look at site about nuclear weapons that is very well written and seems to be great information. That is until you find out that the author is a freshman in high school). If anyone would like honest information on the Amway opportunity and WWDB you can email me at hotzee@yahoo.com. I am not looking to sponsor anyone with this letter but I just want to provide everyone with accurate non biased information. I am proud to associate with a group of people that believe in GOD, the United States, and free enterprise. (I am sure glad that the pilgrims didn't come to America to work for someone as a teacher (like me) or a computer programmer or a clerk at 7-11). Thanks and GO DIAMOND! Eric P.S. - Read the recent article written by Billy Graham about the Amway opportunity and the false information found on the internet.
|
Page 30 |
|