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Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 08 Jul 1998 Gidday, I just want to thank you for placing this information on the net. I have nearly been 'assimilated' by a guy in the same manner that you were (He was a customer at the gas station I work at, knew I was into motorbikes - surprise surprise, so was he etc.etc.). Anyway, in New Zealand it's disguised as this I.D.A thing, and there are heaps of products like Sony, Mobil gas-He reckons i could save 75cents a liter on petrol (having worked in the petrol industry for nearly 8 years, I know that the government takes more than 88.9c - 75c =13.9c so he was obviously talking crap) But since I didn't really know what it was all abuot I decided to go to a function, and open myself up to a new experience. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP !!!! I have never heard such unsubstantiated bull in all my life. I began probing people (I too am a scientist at university) about the nitty-gritty questions, and they were all avoided (No offence intended, but it was just like talking to born-again christians who think they have to recruit others into believing - I like questioning them) So after an intensive night last night reading all the material I could find that was for and against AMWAY, I decided that the 'againsts' had it, and I told my sponsor that I wasn't interested. Incidently this guy was a major player in NZ and I saw his garage where he kept his motivational tapes....You know how in radio station studios they have those walls of cassettes and CD's? Well that's nothing on this guy, it was unbelivable, you could have melted that plastic down and like, make a life sized car or something....and besides all this the guy's a real dork and totally up himself, cos he's the man, NOT!!!! Anyways, thanks again for helping me come to my decision, it has kinda given me new vigor in making my dream come true the old-fashioned way -- blood, sweat, and tears. ps I'll say to you the last thing I said to him, about my dreams -- watch the World Superbikes in 10 years time, 'cos I'll be winning it :-)
Subject: Another Reason to Join Amway, Part II Tue, 7 Jul 1998 NEW YORK, July 7 (UPI) -- Federal prosecutors are scheduled to ask U. S. District Judge Reena Raggi to forbid the leader of the Latin Kings gang from selling Amway products while he awaits trial in New York City. The government says Antonio ``King Tone'' Fernandez is using the home sales job as a cover to conduct gang business and are concerned that he is trying to get around bail regulations that require him to stay home except to go to work. Fernandez, who is charged with conspiracy to distribute heroin, has been selling the cleaning products since he was released on $350,000 bail in May. However, attorney Ron Kuby says neither the court nor probation officers placed a non-association restriction on Fernandez. His client ``is free to invite members of the Latin Kings to his home for meetings, for Latin King affairs, for poetry readings or for milk and cookies,'' so the group leader doesn't have to go through an Amway charade to meet with them. The hearing at the Brooklyn federal court is scheduled for 1 p.m. this afternoon.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 07 Jul 1998 Hi Russell - let's have an update!!! I'm dying to read new material - so please do so when you have time!
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 7 Jul 1998 After a second meeting with a very persistant Diamond Direct, I had to find a way to balance the "perfectness" of Amway that my ever optimistic husband was ready to buy into. Being a new recruit to the world of the internet, I hopped on the Superhighway on my bicycle and searched the word Amway. The first page I encountered was yours. Once I started reading, I was hooked. Your story and comments put into words the thoughts and hunches that were floating around in my noggin. I bombarded my poor, tired husband with my newly hatched doubts until he waved the white flag. Later we were able to sit down and calmly come to the conclusion that Amway is a cult at worst and at least a very bad business venture. We re-evaluated our goals for our lives and our growing family and knew that Amway could not possibly fit. All this to say, I enjoyed your story. Your wit is entertaining and your information and insight is life-saving. I thank God for your "mission", it saved two "suckers" who truly know the "American Dream" does not include Amway. One more thought. I have already "found Jesus" with no help of Amway. And I know in my heart that following Him and doing Amway are not compatible. I'd love to expound on this issue more but my two babies need me. Best to you in your life and business.
Subject: Your pages Tue, 07 Jul 1998 Dear Russell: I found your Amway pages while skating about looking for SAMS Photofacts to order some schematics (which actually I had already found, but I always like to spin through some of the odd hits when I go to the trouble of searching the net, would have never found the virtual colonoscopy site otherwise). In any event, just wanted to drop you a line and congratulate you on your lucid reasoning, detailed research, and your brave, if somewhat foolhardy, exegesis of Amway and like MLM schemes. (Don't you know that some of those people go about heavily armed?) Like several of your correspondents, I also lost a friend to an MLM scheme (some Juice product, I believe). Not only did he subject myself and all his other friends to interminable promotions of the bloody juice and "the program"; he shanghaied every available social situation in which to do it. Not even his sister's wedding was spared. Eventually, he stopped seeing us altogether which was something of a relief. Last heard from he claimed to be worth over a million dollars and was living in a decrepit 1979 Pontiac station wagon. Sometimes I get quite depressed about the state of human reason. For a tool that has done so much to alleviate suffering and enrich life, it seems odd that so few people ever resort to it on a regular basis. And then I think, well, it took 3 million years to get this far, maybe I should be happy that rational thought is practiced at all. Keep up the good work, and mind your back,
Subject: AMWAY Wed, 08 Jul 1998 Hello,my name is *****, I live in Highland California. Why do you have so much hate for AMWAY?I mean,are they really a cult? How do you know?Is there really millions of people in this cult?? Does it really help you make money?Have you been in it? Sorry for all the questions,I'm just curious =-)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 10 Jul 1998
Fabulous work, well written. I've been approached by a sponser. He's
performed everything the same as your sponser did, textbook
(brainwashing must be powerful enough to make people think the same).
I was considering joining. I've done some research on other pages
but your story put the icing on the cake. I will never be an Amway or
any other MLM distributor. Very good work Lone Ranger.
Thanks for the info
P.S. I am also in the computer biz. As a systems inegrator. Isn't
working for a living great when you consider the alternative.
P.P.S. I don't know if I just missed them, but I didn't get any dates.
Would you mind writing back and giving them to me.
Thanks.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 12 Jul 1998 Hi, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I just talked to an amway person last night who showed me the plan. Thank you so much for your page. You have saved me lots of time, money and happiness. Thank you for your page.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Sun, 12 Jul 1998 Hi Ginny. I had a co-worker who quit work because she had a baby. Her husband is a teacher, and she is constantly saying that she thanks the Lord for the business because it gives her the opportunity to stay home and eventually live a prosperous life. I think it is so sad. On their limited salary, they go to Hawaii several times a year for meetings and she left her baby for a week at 2 months of age.
Subject: Amway Mon, 13 Jul 1998 A friend has recently asked me whether I would like to join Amway but I am not sure I should? Can you please give advice on why I should and why I should not.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 13 Jul 1998 Great story Man! Because something similar happened to me.... I'm in the military and I work in DC. 3 years ago a co worker asked me to go to a 'meeting' with her and her husband.(Lets call them Trina and Max) She knew I was having money problems and said she could help. I went to the meeting, very much like the amway meeting you're talking about...it was in a local hotel. Trust me, everything about this meeting was exactly like what you described in your story...the scary part to me is the speaker made it a point that "THIS WAS NOT AMWAY!" I think amway has that kind of reputation that scares people....so now they have 'franchised' a bit so people can claim that they are not amway when in fact they are. They had some other name for it that I can't remember. If I find the card they gave me I'll send you the name. Anyway, Max was all excited driving me home, trying to be my pal etc. I worked with Trina and I liked her a lot...she was very nice and really good looking, but her husband seemed slimey to me. (this was the first time I'd met him) Max really wanted to recruit me to the point of silliness. He was telling me things like "We can go out some weekend, you and me and grab a beer shoot some pool!" I just met this guy! I knew then he was interested in recruiting me more than knowing me because people that know me at know I A.) Don't hang out with every Tom Dick and Harry. B.) Play pool. I suck at pool and i know it. C.) like people trying to be my buddy. Its phoney. Anyway to make a long story short, a week later Trina and Max gave me the same box of crap and catalog you talked about. Tapes and all. Then they took me to another meeting at someone's house. It was a nice house, I'll admit but not a mansion. Of course the speaker there was someone who made millions. It was exactly like you said! I was apalled because it was so sickeningly sweet and they all talked about making money and not working again and how those of us who have decent jobs are morons. Plus, Max told me i wasn't dressed well enough that I should have worn a suit. My exact thoughts were "Fuck you. I'm a soldier and I'll kick your ass." But I remained calm and made a mental note to myself to NEVER SEE ANY OF THESE PEOPLE AGAIN. After that night I told Trina at work I didn't like the meeting and just to leave me out of it and I gave her the box of junk back. Oddly enough, a few weeks later trian and I went out for a drink on a saturday night and she told me how she wasn't into this thing either. A few months later she left her husband. i didn't ask about her reasons, but I figure that it had something to do with this. Don't let any flames from AMWAY pukes keep you down man. You did the right thing!
Subject: AMWAY Mon, 13 Jul 1998 Dear Russell: What a great website!!!!!! I thought I was the only person on the planet who felt this way about MLM(especially SCAMWAY). About two years ago, I was invited to go to a business opportunity. I live near the border of Mexico and was told it was an "import/export business." I was told it was an opportunity that comes along once in a lifetime. I was intrigued and went to the meeting. The cult member told me that with the passage of NAFTA that this was an "exciting" opportunity. After about 10 minutes into the the "meeting" I figured out this was Scamway. I called the hosts on the carpet for their blatant deception, and told them that they were in a cult not a business. I recently spent one dollar at the chance to hit the California Lotto. I honestly feel that the odds of making it rich in Scamway are worse than the Lotto. If you are considering Scamway as a "business opportunity," just buy a Lotto ticket. Again, your odds of winning are better. Thank you.
Subject: vengeance Tue, 14 Jul 1998 I read your message on the Amway web page and was quite shocked. I could not believe anyone could be so full of revenge. Remember, God has said, "vengeance is mine!" I read your resume and you have great potential helping a company through your computer knowlege. If you want to help people, concentrate on finding the job you need and want and let those interested decide whether Amway is for them or not. Whenever political elections are going on, and one politition knocks the other, I have a tendency to vote or side with the one who doesn't knock the other side. The reason being, the person going around knocking the other person has just soiled their reputation and I feel like they are sneaky, under-handed and will do anything to get their way. Remember, God is the only person allowed to get revenge. You need to pray to God and ask forgiveness and then ask forgiveness of those you have hurt through your messages. I hope I helped you realize what you need to do. Reply at:
Subject: Amway page
Tue, 14 Jul 1998
Russell,
I just read your whole Amway story and I was wondering how you were able
to remember the conversation between yourself, "Phil" and "Ted" well enough
to document the whole thing?
I too was approached by an Amway person but became frustrated at our first
"meeting" when I asked for and was not given any financial details. So
that was the end of that. As an engineer I need hard numbers and facts to
interest me in anything.
My husband found your page while researching Primerica, a financial
services company that seemed legit at first, but some on the internet are
comparing it to Amway. I have been approached by a Primerica rep and am
considering getting involved, but it is not looking good.
Thanks in advance if you take the time to answer my question above!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 14 Jul 1998 hahaha!!!!.....enjoyed it thoroughly.......was about to have a "Ted" show up at our house tomorrow for a presentation.....he never would tell us what he was presenting to us. Reserching on the net led me to your page. You have put the name on the tag that I have felt about these MLM's......cults! Will be canceling the meeting.......or maybe just not be home!!!!! Don't have time to listen to tapes and read and go to meetings......loved your input on Amway......they are kinda "scarey" people..... Just wanted to tell you that I enjoyed all 3 parts!
Subject: Your Amway pages
Wed, 15 Jul 1998
I'd like to put a link to them at
http://www.santafe.edu/~shalizi/notebooks/multilevel-marketing.html
I'd appreciate it if you could take a moment to look at the proposed text and
warn me if it mis-represents you too flagrantly for comfort.
Regards,
Cosma Shalizi
Be my guest.
Subject: amascam Thu, 16 Jul 1998 How about the fact that they say you have a guarantee on all products, 100%, and then when you return them, you get a business voucher so you can buy more goods, instead of your money back? That stinks. Especially when you need to give a customer a refund and guess what????? No MONEY!!!!! By the way, I am a distributor and that is what I am facing, along with being ostracized because I quit SOT and don't go to the meetings anymore. I just want to purchase the few products I like, forget the networking!!!! I don't like being dishonest to people.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 16 Jul 1998 Excellent story! I "joined" about a week ago, and in the event that I ever find myself in one of those"rallys", I think that I might have a few choice comments for them.I can`t imagine myself all "glassy-eyed" screaming at the top of my lungs. Please tell me about this letter that you reffered to.Mainly,I was just looking to meet some nice single women.
Subject: Your Amway page... We got out in the early 70's Thu, 16 Jul 1998 Sorry to hear all the -- things about Amway. Tough ordeal then, sounds tough now. You Don,t want to hear from any desperados, I mean Distributors if their recruiting? I Want you to try something on your own? Take a look at a company called Morinda, which sells Noni Juice, that's right "Noni Juice" from the Tahitian Islands. Its a new network company, 2 years old this July and has sales of $10,000,000 for June and is averaging about 5000 new distributors per month. This is a real 2 to 5 year plan for interested parties who want to do some good people and for the time they invest. After you have done all the research and you would like to hear more from a group that wholesales over 10% of the company sales e-mail us and we will show you what you can do if you want to invest some time and know other networkers who want an alternative We will be going into Japan in Sept-Oct time frame. Japan is the #1 network country with over 1,139,000 distributors in Amway alone We are looking for Network distributors who have built as far as they can and are looking for something different and are disappointed in the network their in. Please E-mail us at ***@***.*** We will introduce you to some Diamonds who have made the switch.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Fri, 17 Jul 1998 Ginny, What a remarkable story. I hope you can find peace and happiness in your life after your nightmare Amway experience. Amway is a very evil company. Too many peoples' lives have been ruined by this horrible company. Even though I don't know you, I bet you are a good person and a good mother, and have rebounded from this horrible experience. Good luck and take care!
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 17 Jul 1998 I am so sorry when I found somebody useless like you. I can not do anything different that to pray for you. Best regards of one VERY HAPPY AND PROUD AND HONEST AMWAY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTOR
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 17 Jul 1998
"And you'll fail for the same reason that these HACKS that you listened to
were failing. The internet, hah! You'll never reach anybody that way." And I
said, "Then I guess we simply have nothing more to say to each other."
-Famous last words of an Amway Direct (?)
Glad that you saw the light and managed to get out of the amway
quicksand. I never had an opportunity to 'get hooked on Amway'. Still
waiting for that day when the guy in a suit tells me i look really
bright and sharp and still not making enough money. Looking forward to
the day that happens..
Good job and a great story. This webpage was a link in a story that
appeared in a Indian magazine on a story about the 'International
marketing giant's foray into the Indian subcontinent' etc.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 18 Jul 1998 Thanks to great guys like you and Sydney, I started thinking for myself. People have this need to defend there decisions, and frail ego's won't allow them to admit they're wrong. When I took a hard look at the numbers, I admitted I was wrong. I went from being broke trying to pursue Amway and everyone I met to making $122,000 last year marketing writers to commericial accounts really wanted. Now I go on vacations and have fun. The reason Amway people pursue so the business hard is because the upfront pay is so shitty and the dream is so powerful. Reading your information and other sites got me to realize the truth. I had to stop being a hypocrite. I don't mind Yaeger and the boys making money. We should all make money. It's just all the cover ups, lies and half truths (and the outrageous prices for the products) that got to me. That and the fact that after doing 25 plans per month for about year, and contacting approximately 600 I don't think I ever made more than something like $34 in commissions. Thanks again! Subject: ONe thing Sat, 18 Jul 1998 A point of layout here. The italicized parts of your pages are almost unreadable. Try quotes in stead.
I think some people are not clear that the readability of a web page depends entirely on the fonts you set up in your own browser. On my computer, italics are perfectly readable. But then, they must be for you too... because you're reading this comment, aren't you?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 18 Jul 1998 Hi, Just wanted to thank you for writing your honest opinion down. It helped me a lot!
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part2) Sun, 19 Jul 1998 Hello! It is too bad that I wasn't on the internet a year ago and showed all of this to my former wife! This is EXACTLY what happened to my wife and how she tried to recruit me into Amway! I won't make this too long. I felt as you did when you listened to the tapes, went to the meetings with all the cadilacs outside, etc... I didn't fall for any of it! But my much younger wife fell for it hook, line and sinker! The harder I tried to explain things to her, the further away from me she went. To make a long story short, we ended up in divorce shortly after the Amway incident. A combinations of many things, but debt played a big part. I could tell you stories, but your story is exactly the way it happened for me!!! I just wish I could have showed my wife your web page. But she was so brainwashed, it may not have made a difference. Like you, everything I found on Amway was good. I even tried looking up Pyramid Schemes in the library, but came up short until today. Anyway, it's nice to know I'm not alone.
Subject: Your Amway Page Mon, 20 Jul 1998 Great Page. I had a friend who was in Scamway. But fortunatly, he got out. He found the greed of those people nauseating. The most ironic thing is that my friend is leaving for seminary to become a priest in about a month. Talk about a total 180 degree turn around.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Mon, 20 Jul 1998
Glasser
You truly are a sad little man with such a strange, skewed view of the
world. What comes to mind immediately when I read of or meet people like
yourself is gratefullness. There, but for the grace of God, go I. You
sound as if you must have very little, if any, joy in your life. How sad.
I feel sorry for you.
Hopefully you can salvage what is left of your life.
Subject: amway story
Tue, 21 Jul 1998
We printed the following story in the most recent issue of "The
FUNdamentalist", which is a small paper we put out in Grand Rapids.
I'm sending you the text in case you are interested. You are welcome
to excerpt from it or reprint it. I'll be glad to try to answer any
questions you may have.
Untold millions, untold story
We help Amway and the Grand Rapids Press clarify the issues
In March, in response to an interview with two Amway
ex-employees that we printed in the Winter, 1998 FUN, the Amway spin
control manager sent us a letter expressing concern about our "one
sided, negative view of Amway Corporation". The letter claimed that
Amway's 14,000+ employees "share the values of our founders and
believe in Amway's vision 'To be the best business opportunity in the
world'." It also objected to the implication that Amway is a cult,
while acknowledging and defending the company's "strong culture". It
ended by noting the considerable "background" information it sent us,
and thanking us "for this opportunity to clarify these issues".
The following month the Grand Rapids Press did an extensive,
front-page series on the "generosity" of Amway's two founders, Rich
DeVos and Jay Van Andel. The two, over their lifetimes, have given
away almost three percent of the fortune they have accumulated. That's
according to estimates; like most people with lots of money, the two
refuse to say just how much of the world's wealth they have managed to
accumulate.
Of course, the Press did not give us the three percent figure,
though one can calculate it from the info they provided. Nor did they
mention that the average charitable donations in the USA are about two
percent of income - this from people who typically would not even
think about second and third mansions, personal aircraft, full-time
private guards, etc., much less how they might shape the city or even
the world with the wealth they control. Nor were there comparisons
with others in our community or elsewhere who have accumulated far
less wealth yet have given away a far greater percentage of that
wealth. Nor was there any investigation of how Amway avoids taxes in
part thanks to its founders' "giving". Nor was there reportage of how
many - even some of the most "liberal" people, who in some cases hate
what Amway stands for - are willing to kiss the you-knnow-whats of
high Amway mucky-mucks when they believe there is a chance of getting
some of Amway's money.
And of course there are the "untold millions" of people who
have wasted some portion of their lives working for the Amway dream
which they have found to be a nightmare; the Press has yet to tell
that crucial part of the story, as far as we are aware. In fact, the
accumulation of Van Andel's and DeVos's wealth is based upon a
structure that egregiously exploits people who have little opportunity
for productive, rewarding work. It is one of the worst of many
examples of welfare takeaways that are simply transfers of wealth from
producers to corporate manipulators. And, of course, the Press did not
even hint that anyone else might have any legitimate claim to the
wealth those two Amway dons control.
The closest the Press came to any of this was to quote Calvin
Economics Professor George Monsma: "As I read the Bible, individuals
are called to establish economic justice in society. Materialism and
individualism are false gods." This was the only criticism of DeVos
and Van Andel that the Press included (which they did, we suppose, so
they can say they have presented "both sides"). However, they attempt
to undermine even that very general statement not by critiquing it on
its merits, but by describing Monsma's appearance (the only person in
the series whose appearance is described), including "Bushy beard,
wide-wale corduroys, and suede hippie shoes", and by saying co "was a
flannel-shirted foot soldier in the anti-war movement". A similar
description of DeVos, had it been included, might have read, "a
practically hairless, standard business-suited, self-appointed general
of the dog-eat-dog capitalist fight for material wealth and power".
What are the values of Amway's founders? We have their
statements in the Press series, as well as the analysis of the
supposedly "conservative" and "Christian" causes they mostly give
money to. We also have statements in the slick materials Amway
provided us. Those stated values include integrity ("We do what is
right, not just whatever 'works'."), personal worth ("Every person is
worthy of respect, and deserves fair treatment and the opportunity to
succeed to the fullest extent of his or her potential"), achievement
("We strive for excellence in all we do."), and, of course, Hitler's
term for capitalism: "free enterprise". We will weigh those and Press
statements against the actions we can observe.
As we have previously reported, those actions include a
federal conviction for price-fixing, a chain-letter-like operational
structure, glorification of consumerist materialism in a world where
children starve every day and the planet's entire ecology is
threatened, unemployment and desperation (upon which Amway thrives),
anti-labor activity, premeditated, massive, sophisticated fraud
(Amway's top leaders were convicted of the biggest fraud in Canada's
history), even support for acts of terrorism which included raping
children and cutting the babies out of women in advanced states of
pregnancy (in the 1980s Amway's two founders consistently supported
terrorists who were renowned for such acts. Richa was threatened at
the time for reporting this fact, which Amway falsely termed
"libelous").
Not least of Amway's observable values, as we also reported,
is its willingness to steal much of the wealth that by all rights
belongs to many of the planet's most needy people; wealth which if
distributed as it should be could save the lives of literally millions
of children. Given this reality, the Amway founders look far more like
mass murderers than the benevolent philanthropists they are made out
to be in the Press.
With publication of this article, a copy of which we will send
to Amway, we challenge Amway to commission an independent polling
agency, to be agreed on both by ourselves and Amway, to canvas a
representative sample of its 14,000 employees in order to determine if
they really support the above values - the values that Amway acts, as
opposed to the values publicized by the Grand Rapids Press and the
rest of its p.r. department.
We will focus here more on Amway as a "business opportunity";
an aspect of the company we have barely touched on previously.
Our interview with two ex-employees gave some sense of the
cult-type atmosphere that prevails for employees. But what about the
estimated 3 million "independent" distributors, often referred to by
Amway as "entrepreneurs"? We can now say much more about them, largely
thanks to the internet. Amway has tried to censor this material, and
has flooded the 'net with pro-Amway material, which can make it hard
to find anything seriously critical (for those interested in
exploring, we suggest starting with this site:
http://www.r-d-s.com/amway/ - or type in the search term (including
quote marks): "amway: the untold story").
As of Fall, 1997, all distributors must sign an agreement to,
among other things, resolve any dispute internally according to
procedures set by Amway.
If that doesn't produce satisfaction they must submit
claims to binding arbitration. They are prohibited
from discussing any details of disputes they are involved in.
This is said by some to mean giving up your constitutional right to
take
Amway or any distributor to court. If you do not sign the agreement
you are not allowed to become or remain a distributor. Amway also
restricts their distributors' "freedom to advertise where and how they
choose, sell product where and how they choose, and even to split a
distributorship as they choose in the case of a divorce", according to
someone whose internet web page was pulled after Amway made numerous
threats.
But don't expect Amway to necessarily honor its part of this
very one-sided agreement. In one case an Amway Vice President claimed
co "has the authority to waive Contract Rules and would do it again"
(this Vice President apparently does not believe in the USA
Constitution). In that case the distributor sued and was awarded over
$1 million in a unanimous jury verdict.
There have apparently been a lot of unhappy Amway campers, as
there have been literally thousands of suits against the company in
the last ten years. That may well be the major reason for the new
arbitration requirements.
Distributors are largely dependent on their "uplines" (the
people who "sponsored" them - and are making money off them), who
typically tell them they should buy numerous books and tapes, attend
various rallies, and otherwise take considerable time and expense to
"get motivated". One engineer recently calculated average minimum
monthly expenses at about $500 following the "traditional approach",
meaning buying the tapes, attending the various functions, etc. And
numerous distributors say - despite it probably being against the law
- that they are discouraged, in some cases cut off entirely, by their
uplines if they don't follow this approach.
Another ex-distributor who analyzed these costs came up with a
very similar figure; about a third higher if very conservative costs
(minimum wage at only 10 hours per week) for one's personal time are
figured in. Childcare costs, which also may be considerable, are not
included in either estimate.
When Amway distributor income was examined in a court case
some years ago in Wisconsin, the average annual net income (after the
deduction of business expenses) for all Wisconsin Direct
Distributorships was actually a net loss of $918. Direct distributors
have long been those who have supposedly "made it" in Amway. They
constituted less than 1% of all Wisconsin Amway distributors at the
time. Amway and a number of distributors were fined for illegal
misrepresentation of income in that case.
The engineer, using Amway materials, figures that only about 1
in 200 Distributors are Direct Distributors. New Directs make an
estimated net of about $1500 monthly at the high end, and more
realistically probably about half that. The next higher level, called
Emeralds, are (again liberally) estimated to make at least $6000 per
month, or $70,000 per year, on average. One in 1000 distributors can
make this level. The highest level, called Diamonds, are estimated
(also using generous assumptions) to make a minimum average of $10,000
per month. But only 1 in 25,000 distributors make that level. Co
comments: "the same reasoning applies to conventional business as
well--I might be the one to climb the corporate ladder to the top of a
25,000 employee company."
Another person's survey of typical earnings for those who
operated home-based businesses showed that about 20 times as many
people made an income equivalent to a Diamond's income as those in
Amway who attained Daimond status.
As for the vast majority of Distributors who never make
Direct, they almost all suffer a net loss.
"So I am talking about $100,000 that you can make in your
spare time without giving up what you do during the day."
--Amway distributor caught by hidden camera, American Journal,
2/14/94
Numerous people indicate that those who make the most money in
Amway do so largely on the basis not of product sales, but sales of
tapes, seminar and rally tickets, and other "motivational tools". This
would account for part of the reason that so many people in Amway end
up losing money, and having nothing substantial to show for it.
Consultant Robert L. Fitzpatrick, co-author of False Profits:
Seeking Financial and Spiritual
Deliverance in Multi-Level Marketing and Pyramid Schemes, sums up the
"independence" of those who, like Amway distributors, buy into most
"multi-level marketing" (MLM) schemes: "MLM distributors are not
entrepreneurs but joiners
in a complex hierarchical system over which they have little
control."
A federal ruling allowing Amway's scheme set forth legal
guidelines that are "routinely ignored", according to Fitzpatrick.
Lack of enforcement further allows Amway and similar MLMs to continue
ripping people off.
The very structure of MLM's, according to a Ph.D. thesis by
Carol Juth-Gavasso, contributes in numerous ways to their
"organizational deviance". This means illegal and unethical behavior
beyond that already generally accepted within capitalist business.
Juth-Gavasso's study was based in large part on a case study of such
"deviance" in Amway, which itself has substantially pushed back the
boundaries of what is considered illegal and unethical.
In fact, as noted in associate professor of management and
sociology Nicole Woolsey Biggart's book Charismatic Capitalism, Amway
and similar direct selling organizations have good reason to push
those boundaries: their economic health largely depends on poor
working conditions elsewhere, which makes those schemes seem
attractive to many. These organizations do better in recessions, when
people cannot as easily obtain work that pays a wage - which people
generally prefer. They do relatively poorly in countries with good
worker protections, such as most of Europe.
Yet Biggart also notes that Amway and their ilk are set up "in
order to better control workers." Amway gets itself a highly if not
fanatically motivated workforce for which it legally has virtually no
responsibility; an employer's dream, as Stephen Butterfield has
pointed out in Amway: The Cult of Free Enterprise. The powerful MLM
industry, largely led by Amway, has been able to keep things that way
in the face of numerous challenges in the courts and by public bodies
such as the Federal Trade Commission and the IRS.
Product sales in the Amway distribution scheme are, at least
for some, a major part of the business, and distributors at least get
to buy a variety of Amway products. So it is natural to ask what kind
of value they are getting.
One web site gives a pretty good indication. Someone analyzed
Amway products as reported in the independent magazine Consumer
Reports. In quality they ranged widely, from among the very best to
the very worst. But price was another story. About a third were priced
comparably to most other products in the category, but the other
two-thirds carried either the highest price or close to the highest
price in the category. Usually other products of similar or much
better quality could be had for anywhere from half to one-sixth the
price of the Amway products. For instance, Amway's vacuum cleaner was
rated slightly below the middle among 20, but the top-ranked vacuum
cleaner could be purchased for a third the price of Amway's.
In taking a representative sample of various Amway products
and equivalent products available in stores, one person calculated
that Amway products, on average, cost 90% more. This ex-distributor
commented: "Now you know why I was spending $263 a month on products."
Thus the Amway cult is strong enough to seduce people into
paying far more for products than they would otherwise pay, not to
mention the fact that they would probably not buy many of the products
in the first place if not for the pressures exerted on them.
One consultant calls Amway's marketing scheme a "free market
hoax. It is analogous to calling the purchase of
a lottery ticket a 'business venture' and winning the lottery
a 'viable income opportunity for everyone'." For the lottery to work,
many have to spend, and most of them have to lose, for some to win,
and for a very few to win big. As numerous people have pointed out,
the "success" of a much smaller few in Amway is absolutely dependent
upon the willingness of many to slave for a dream - a hollow dream, at
that - that almost none will or can ever achieve.
Most conventional businesses produce a far, far better profit
rate, and survival rate. And most allow considerably more freedom for
those who run the businesses.
This perhaps is "the best business opportunity in the world"
for the Amway founders, their eight gold-plated children, and a few
others who have taken advantage of the exploitation Amway has helped
to pioneer. For everyone else, you are far, far better off throwing
your money at lottery tickets.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 21 Jul 1998 Thank you for sharing your story! I almost got hooked.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 22 Jul 1998 Amen, amen, amen. You have said it all... My wife and I lived the Amway life for one year and you are 110% correct.
Subject: Amway
Thu, 23 Jul 1998
I have been approached by representatives from Amway and
from the start I was not convinced, not because the people
who were speaking to us were saying what a lovely time I would
have making all this money, making friends, having a support
line and getting things on the cheap, I beleive firmly that the
only way to make money is work, honesty, confidence, and the
belief in yourself and others.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 23 Jul 1998 Hi. I am writing from Brazil. I"ve always suspected this Amway was some kind of cultic religion whose god was money. Now You've confirmed my suspicions. Keep up the good work. Take care and God bless.
Subject: Tell the truth Thu, 23 Jul 1998 Do you know how to find the truth out? Do you research what your talking about? Or do you run on HearSAY? Do you even research Objective Facts? Think about it?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 24 Jul 1998
I have to give you credit. You were smart enough to figure it out on your
own. I on the other hand was lucky enough to have a very beautiful and
intelligent wife to put my head back on straight. My experience wasn't near
as bad as yours was. Once I told the guy no he left me alone, but it took
my wife telling me that this guy wasn't going to leave me alone until I
joined or told him no. I sent you web page address to several of my
friends. One read the page today and today he decided that enough was
enough and told the guy on his back get lost. If it meaning anything to you
your page does make a difference.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 24 Jul 1998 Hi! Thanks for sharing your Amway stories...we had received the "first tape" a few days ago...glad we have done a little looking around on the subject!! :O)
Subject: Ex-Amway
Sun, 26 Jul 1998
Hi Dude, Like your story.....been there, done that too! I was a distributor
from 1991 to 1995. Ran out of money buying tapes, books and motivation
material. Took only a short while of not being "motivated" for me to see
the light and realize that I had to quit!
Sad part is I am still digging myself out of the financial hell-hole
that my upline motivated me to dig! Keep on telling others your story and
maybe they won't fall into the same trap!
Subject: READ THIS ONE YOU MIGHT LIKE IT Sun, 26 Jul 1998 hi .. very funny story i love ...my brother is in amway his wife works for one of the diamonds so there in hook line and sinker. i did sort of the same thing you did but i took only the good part of amway back with me .i studed the way they handled people and greeted people which the diamonds do very well this can be used to help you in other aspects of life (for good only) i also used the amways functions for free vacations i would do the golf tourniment for the pratt functions (me and my brother ) 72 people tack on 20 bucks a head for your self and its note a bad pay day but i did run a great golf tournement every body thought i was GREAT but you herd that line before.did you know those guys (the diamonds)get 8 thousand dollars to talk at a function thats were they make there money ..........ok time to go .......i have some more great info on the amway life if you care to know more
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 26 Jul 1998 I just spent some time reading Ginny's story. Scary stuff. It is a miracle she is alive. It makes me glad I never considered Amway. I thought my mother's experience was bad, (she just lost some money and got fed up), but Ginny's story takes the prize. What makes me even more nervous is that I'm a Melalueca customer. Some of the "training" sounds awfully familiar.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 27 Jul 1998 you have just convinced me of what i already suspected. i was almost reeled in. thanks
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 27 Jul 1998 That is perhaps the most entertaining story I have ever heard/read. I realize that you are a programmer (like me), but allow me to say you tell a story with great enthusiasm and passion. I am so moved, I feel it necessary to write you and say so. I wish you luck with your endeavors, and hope you enjoy being "trapped in your job" (as an "am-bot" would say) as much as I do.
Coming up next: a web that was sent to me by the author. I can't tell for sure whether this is insane ranting by an overzealous anti-Amway crusader, or just an insanely poor attempt at humor by a distributor. Here is the text of the web page itself.
Are Amway Corporation and its founders tied in with the Masonic Order?
Many people have written me expressing their concerns about Amway. Evidently,
whether deliberate or not, there does appear to be some type of connection
between the organization and Freemasonry. The first Amway building had a
Masonic square and compass symbol on the front facade. The luxurious Amway
Grand Plaza Hotel in Grand Rapids, Michigan_where Amway has its international
conventions for its distrib-utors_was built right onto a huge Masonic temple.
The architecture of this hotel is integrated so that many Masonic symbols
carved in stone are visible at the river side of the structure.
In 1988 I was the keynote speaker at a national Sunday School leaders
conference held at the Amway Grand Plaza Hotel. Strangely, when I checked in,
the desk clerk inexplicably assigned me to room 666!
Was this just coincidental, or did someone at the hotel know that the
topic of my talk was to be "The Coming New Age Antichrist, 666?"
It felt odd and eerie entering a hotel room on the sixth floor with the
number 666 prominently displayed on the door. But I had Jesus with me in my
heart, and prayer as my weapon. I figured the devil had a lot more to worry
about than me, and I certainly wasn't going to let him intimidate me.
Protected by the Holy Spirit from intimidation, I slept like a baby. So
did Wanda, my precious wife. The next morning, we arose early, and Wanda and
I went for a brief and invigorating walk outside along the river front of
this mammoth and impressive hotel. There, I observed the pagan Masonic
symbols, architecture, and Egyptian statues. Back inside the hotel, in the
grand lobby, I saw a shiny, brass metal plaque on a pillar. It had inscribed
on it the names of dignitaries who had previously stayed at the hotel. I
studied the names carefully and noticed that among them were England's Queen
Elizabeth and Prince Philip; the Netherlands' Queen Julianna and Prince
Bernard; and former U.S. President Gerald Ford.
Then, a surprise: Amidst all these well-known VIP names was the name of
another, lesser-known personage. Right there on the list was a "Chief Holy
Eagle." I immediately recognized the potential New Age and Masonic meaning of
the name of this so-called dignitary, Chief Holy Eagle.
Regardless of its Masonic connections, certainly the promotional
emphasis within Amway is ungodly. There is nothing wrong with making money,
but to combine the things of God with an all-out hunger and campaign for
mammon is unbecoming.
Amway's spiritual philosophy is, in my opinion, perfectly in tune with
the so-called prosperity gospel. Advocates of this false gospel claim that if
you consistently think positive and speak positive, God will make you
fabulously rich. This is a horrendously false teaching and must be rejected
by true Christians. Bible believers well know and accept that any true child
of God must be willing to accept hardship, persecution and deprivation if
that be God's will.
The pep rallies of Amway and similar commercial groups whip up emotions
of a greedy nature and cause listeners to focus first and almost exclu-sively
on money and success. But the Bible tells us to seek first the Kingdom of God
and His righteousness. Yes, the "positive" crowd may add in a little
spirituality and may occasionally sprinkle in some Christian lingo, but it's
too often an afterthought, an aside. How sad and pitiful_and how devoid of
true riches and prosperity_is their message.
Perhaps this is why I am now so often besieged by folks telling me of
New Age visualization and meditation, nature worship, and other New Age
practices taught and encouraged by their Amway distributors. Whether this
(officially) comes from the top down I do not know, but it does exist.
I am sure that Amway has its good points. Certainly, its supporters
will respond to this article and vigorously defend the company. Recently, I
received a letter from Amway's headquarters in which the company denies that
its head, Rich DeVos, is a 33rd degree Mason. Perhaps Amway has an
explanation for its retaining the Masonic symbols and architecture on its
Amway Grand Plaza Hotel. My comments here should, therefore, be read with
caution and without making a hasty judgment.
Moreover, I realize that there are many fine, sincere people involved
in distributing and selling Amway products. I make no rash judgments about
their motives, nor do I question the depth of their faith. My purpose is to
simply cause christians to reflect on the true meaning of the Gospel and
compare that with the principles of mammon which I believe are strongly
espoused by Amway and other multilevel marketing organizations.
Subject: Amway Tue, 28 Jul 1998 Excellent page... It's amazing how these recruitment encounters are so predictable and identical.... I've been hit by my 4th Ambot and am preparing again to infiltrate the meetings with reality. Thanks for the ammo.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 28 Jul 1998 How can you base your thoughts about amway on only one experience??? If Amway is bad why is it mentioned in almost every issue of fortune magazine? Why do corporations like nike, AT&T, GM, Ford, to name a few, go to Amway every month asking them to network with them?? Why is Amway a 7 billion dollar debt free corporation? I could go on and on but the answer is obvious. Amway is only the vehicle. Anyone, ANYONE can start their own amway business, that is good and bad. Because anyone can own their own Amway business, and amway is a people business there will always be amroids that give people a bad experience. If you met a person that owned their own computer business that was a moron, would all computer business owners be morons? Amway is the best business opportunity in the world. Skepticism is awesome but only if it leads to investigation. You need to do your homework. Don't forget...Amway is only the vehicle. In a people business there is bound to be morons. " If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got." "You can't get different results doing the same thing." This is why people get into amway, they no they need to do something different. It is the power of association. If a millionaire took you by the hand and said that he would teach you everything he knew, would you do it? It only makes sense, if you get around losers you will be a loser. If you get around successful people, you will be successful. That is why I am in amway, that is why my family's future will be secure.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Wed, 29 Jul 1998
please contact me at [address and phone deleted]
evenings after 900 id love to talk to you at leangth about your
experience ! loved your story right to the point and truthfull . I have
some thoughts about amway witch may startle you! OR MABEY NOT YOU DECIDE
!!! PLEASE CONTACT ME AT your earliest conveinience.
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 30 Jul 1998
I really prefer to keep discussions about Amway over email except in rare
cases. Very few things about the subject startle me in any case. I would be
pleased to hear about your experiences, but I think we can talk just fine in
writing.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 29 Jul 1998 Hey Russ Everybody has to have an opinion I suppose but normally they are never based on all the facts. In your business if you have one, do you sell products at your cost, if so how do you live "OH I FORGOT YOUR FORTUNE WAS HANDED DOWN TO YOU". Decisions in life are a choice, and you made yours. Wrong or right it was your choice. Personally when I looked at Amway I was a bit curious and examined all the information I could find, including information on your site. You bring up some very interesting points. However in every aspect of life if someone does not get what they want the first thing they do is focus the blame on someone or something. Probably to try and mask an inadequate quality they themselves may posses. I don't know you and you don't know me. You may be a fine person, But if you truly want to help people as you say you do at least get all sides of the story before you tell it.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 30 Jul 1998
Maybe you could post a post-epilogue to let "us" all know what has
happend in the last two years of your life since the brush with Amway.
I could not have cared less who you were two hours ago, but now I'm
curious. As a fellow person I actually care how your are doing.
(before you get cautious about if this is a deceptive "I'll lure him
back to AMWAY" tacktic I'll let you know upfront that I am a highly
INactive amway distributor that noticed that no one in my upline
bothered to contact me at my NEW address after I moved for 6 months,
that is until I placed a big order one month. Then they were interested
in finding out if I was really still "IN" and if maybe I'd like to come
to a meeting or two. My experience was pretty simple. Spend way more
than you earn for a year. THen wake up. Then decide, a real business
CAN'T spend more than it earns. Since I wasn't making squat I wasn't
gonna pay for squat, including tapes, etc...I'm not TOTALLY
stupid....only stupid for a year. However, the intangible things that I
learned in AMWAY about working with people has actually helped me become
a BETTER teacher. Of course I could've bought Steven Covey's book at a
bookstore instead of from my upline...etc, etc, etc.)
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 30 Jul 1998
Most of my personal life story is on my main web page, which is linked in
several places off the Amway page. It is not completely up to date, I've been
meaning to work on it. More of my story is revealed in "Ginny's Amway story"
but not all of it -- Ginny is the woman of my dreams and I've moved to Texas
to be with her. I am currently unemployed by choice, brushing up on some
graphics programming skills so I can get a nicer job. That's about all there
is to tell.
As for what I've been doing with Amway for these two years, besides
maintaining the web page: absolutely nada. I don't even respond to many
letters anymore, as I've said just about all I had to say on the subject.
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 30 Jul 1998 I too was in with Amway but because of my procrastion problem I did not get really hooked -frankly I don't like going to meetings I could not help but laugh at their phone messages (which are geared to motivate you instead with their hurry hurry attitude )-- I guess I am not just amway material. I did get burn buying some products shoes which were too small popcorn ,glass clearner ect. Never recieved one dime but thats how it is everything you say about ammway is correct-and I am glad I ran into some one who feels the same way I do. Glad I am out and feel sorry for people who are hooked into this-
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 30 Jul 1998 Interesting this Web site about the Amway imposture. I've been aproached last May by an (ex) old friend tring to enrole me in this. I immediately had a smell of the booby trap. But looking over all his "bla-bla" and the bullshit on cassetes and the little book by Mr Yeager, I wonder if there is not somethig more dangerous than that. Am I obsessive or is there some kind of a radical right wing political scam or even a sect behind all this ? Do you have some infos about that aspect of Amway ?
Subject: Your Bullshit about Amway. Fri, 31 Jul 1998 Maybe you or your girlfriend didnt succeed because you didnt motivate yourselves. Think about it. It is like running your own business. If you treat it like that, it will work! The advantage of Amway is that you have no overheads, and can make a bit of a profit selling the product. But, that is just my opinion, i guess. Maybe you aren't the type to have your own business.
Subject: Equinox International Thu, 30 Jul 1998 Hi. I have a friend who is involved with Equinox International and wants me to get involved. I really haven't found much about the company and the litle I have found makes vague references to some shady doings. Could you please help me by possibly directing me to sites that have information on Equinox International. Thank you!
Subject: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 russel nice web page !!, having trouble with my mail . thanks for responding to my letter i havnt time to right at the moment but i will have some thoughts for you latter !!! thanks again keep your head down these boys dnt take prisoners!!!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 02 Aug 1998 Russell, Hey, thanks...great web site! I never had the gusto to begin my own anti-Amway crusades at their own meetings (way to go, by the way!) but I felt much the same way in that I wanted Amway shut down. Still, I entertain fantasies of going to law school and making it my life goal of putting Amyway out of commission. ~laughing~ But anyways, just wanted to thank you for taking the time to put up this site! I've thouroughly enjoyed the similarities you shared in my own experiences with Amway. And I think you should know, there's no way you could fail in puting up this web site. The only fool is Phil the Amway guy who refused to realize what a powerful tool the internet is! Keep up the great work!
Subject: are you making money on this site?...N/T Sun, 2 Aug 1998
Answer: nope.
Subject: Nope. Re: are you making money on this site?...N/T Mon, 03 Aug 1998 Dear Mr. Glasser, I recently attended a training meeting for a new mlm company called Big Planet. The trainers name is Steve Schotter and he is a former executive of a company called NuSkin. I was "inducted" by a new acquaintance who started to tell about a investment an money making venture, but couldn't tell too much about it. The company recommends that I purchase a $500.00 starter set which will make me an "executive." Currently, I am being pressured by my new acquaintance to purchase this starter kit because the price will soon go up to $1000.00. Some of the people involved in this organization claim to have been made into millionares by the NuSkin company and claim that Big Planet can do the same for me. I have attended HerbaLife and Equinox meetings and this meeting was similiar but much less pressured. I do remember that the Equinox group was very glassy eyed, strangely exuberant and were trying their damndest to get me to purchase a $400.00 kit. Can you tell anything about Big Planet? Have you heard of it and are there any warnings you can tell me? Thank You. SIncerely,
Subject: I need help Sun, 2 Aug 1998 Dear Mr. Glasser, Friday night my son and future daughter in law asked me to come to their home to hear about a new business opportunity that they have gotten into. This turned out to be an Amway recruitment meeting. There was one other person attending to hear this presentation. Since some years ago I had been involved for a period of a year and a half with another network marketing business, I began to question the presenter. At no time would he directly answer any of my questions nor did he really tell us anything during his presentation. In my opinion, the claims he was making regarding how people could make money was mathematically impossible. I have since called my son with my concerns both about the value of products in the Amway catalogue as well as the feasibility of making the kind of money they purported. I also, from prior experience, believe that these "MLM"'s are a scam and perhaps 99% of the people who attempt it fail miserably. He was very defensive and told me I "was a dream killer". Further, prior to his association with anything concerning Amway, he has always spoken of how much he enjoyed his work. Now he claims that he hates his job. Further, he works in a very desirable company that is in direct competition with Amway products--this company is the largest soap manufacturers in the world. I don't know what I can say to him now that would be effective. I am afraid he will alienate me further if I attempt to try to convince him of the inherent dangers of associating with these people. Right now he is planning to attend a local seminar on Aug. 17, and then a larger convention in St. Louis on August 29, which is a weekend with a group of the Amway followers. A number of years ago my younger son was almost taken in by a religious group with characteristics of a cult. I was just barely able to save him from that. Now my older son is displaying similar impressions of Amway. As you can see, I have great concern that, as you pointed out in your web-site, Amway has many of the same characteristics of a cult. Can you suggest what I should do or could you provide an un-biased, unemotional opinion that I could share with him before he becomes so caught up in this farce that it begins to do real damage to his life. Please e-mail me, or feel free to call me at (***) ***-****. I have the feeling that someone who has had direct contact with this company in the past, such as yourself, might be able to reach him.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Sun, 02 Aug 1998
Yo, Anti-Amway Guy...
What a great and suddenly familiar story! You are the second anti-Amway
page I have viewed this evening, and this response is I hope one only
one of thousands who will attest to the relief one feels when one
realizes what one COULD have gotten into...
I am scheduled to meet my upline tomorrow evening to go to the next
step. Not that I didn't have a queasy feeling in my stomach from the
moment she approached me; I just never realized that it might even be a
cult which I was "picked" to be become involved with.
I guess I will take my mother's advice and let her down politely but
firmly; trying to "desensitize" her would be superfluous and running her
down would be too bloody. I may call my local TV station, though I
expect they've heard the same complaints from others if she's been
active in the area for long. At least I know that there are SEVERAL
internet sites out there protecting folks from this kind of vampiric
capitalism...I know I'm often getting sucked dry by corporations, but it
seems to hurt a hell of a lot more when it's a "friend" who's finding
the right vein...
U R A LIFESAVER!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 02 Aug 1998 Hi Russell, I was an Amway distrubutor and was very happy with the company. It was introduced to me by my brother and I showed it to my friends and none of them got in. I got frustrated and upset. But I had to remind myself that they did not read any books or listened to any tapes. They thought they knew evrything. To tell you the truth, I thought the same thing. This could not make me money. I did not make any money from Amway , but I did not work as hard as I should. After going to the meetings, listening to the tapes, and really thinking @ it, I love the people in it because they work very, very hard. It is not just the millionaries either who are happy. It is the families who make an extra $500. a month. I have seen many other MLMs, but nothing compares to the men and women who are in this business. I have just moved, changed jobs, but will be getting back into the Amway business soon. My sponsor never once got upset with me.I might not make to Diamond or Direct Level, but I will not quit the business. I wish you good luck in your carrer, but remember, no matter what type of work you get into, do not knock others who are working so hard. If this was a scam, none of the companies you personally do business with everyday would not sign a contract with Amway.
Subject: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 I read your page with great interest. I recently met some "Ambots" that I really do like as people. They have tried the old squeeze play but I am not a person to be pushed and I believe the hint was taken. At any rate, one thing does disturb me. Have you found that there is a high correlation between Amway distributors and members of 12-step programs? Please point me toward any information you have or know of. Please keep my e-mail address anonymous. Thanks.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Mon, 3 Aug 1998 Hi Russ, where the hell were you 3 years ago before they got there claws into me. My fault I guess I`ve only been computer litterate for less than a year. Technically I`m still a distibutor...SSSSHHH. I have in the last 3 years spent alot more money than I ever made from this infernal business. I could make more money wiping winsheilds on the street corner. I was once asked , during a plan at an open if my boss was ever going or if he ever had given me 15,000 dollar raise. Well as soon as I pulled my head out of my ass and started applying my self fully to my proffession and not driving to poeples houses at all hours of the night and being useless and tired all day at work he did. We worked out a bonus schedule at the golf course I work at that pays me the percentage of revenue increase the golf experiences based on my gross income of the same period. That means if I work harded at keeping my course beautiful and the revenue reflects it positively I get bonused big time. The course I work at has been in business for a hell of alot longer than Amway and has always showed a n increase in revenues EVERY single year it has been open. I still make an emerald income+, I love what I do and yeah I drive a new STS every 2 years. I`m 32 and have no college education, just 18 years of hands on experience. After sitting down and giving it alot of thought I realized that the last 3 years of Amway didn`t pay for one red cent of it, in fact it set me back alot and probably cost me a few friends too. I have a relationship with my wife again who was never wild about the idea to begin with and I put my daughter to bed every night like I used too. They all supported my DREAM hoping that I`d come to my senses. I guess I`m a little more hard headed than I thought. I could never say "I`m sorry" enough for the shit I put them through. I could tell you horrors you`d be hard pressed to beleive but you can call me back for that. Well I feel alot better, I hope you can see clear as to reply to this, I`d love to give you the whole sordid tale. I imagine it would make some interesting reading. I have to go and put my Beverly to bed, type back and beware the Amway dick!!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 3 Aug 1998 and as I just told my co-worker...you have to be very smart or very stupid, but it sounds like the ones in the middle are the ones getting sapped into believing in the "DREAM". I told her that I will consider myself one of the "smart" ones and look at everything I read as a lesson well learned. I went to one of those "informational" meetings last night. I was invited by my clergy's wife. I love her and her husband dearly and wouldn't believe that she could want me to get into something that mirrored a cult. As a matter of fact, in our (church) meetings there is never any mention of it from them really. It is more often one of us that will ask, and then they seem somewhat tentative to expand on our questions. Being the eternal skeptic and pessimist, I wanted to get 'both sides of the story'. So I went surfing today. And hum, to my delight and chagrin, I found tons of good bashing, and that was just what I was looking for. After careful analysis, I fully understand in full spectrum, the "AMWAY" story, philosophy, business model and "success" fable. I do not want to spend my every waking moment with zealous, over-programmed robots. I could go to one of those "Name It and Claim It" spiritual meetings for that, and not be obligated to give the name, rank and serial number of my ten closest friends and relatives. I have been hit up for almost every 'free enterprise', 'entrepreneurial', 'self-made millionaire' scheme that may have ever existed, and still none seem to match the "AMWAY" theory, although some come dangerously close. I really don't think Amway, the products anyway, are the culprits here, but the greedy, self-absorbed leaders of the 'materials' venue that cause the whole thing to stink! Ya' know, some guy by the name of "L. Ron Hubbard" thought that people needed to be cleansed of their 'inferior thought patterns' and things called "Ingrams(sp?)" which they acquired, as far back as in-vitro, to be productive, worthy human beings. And that his method for dealing with such things would "free you up" to serve your full potential. His group still positions themselves at swap meets and farmers markets hoping to find the 'down and outer' who wants to be redeemed. They will give you stuff to get you "started on the road to freedom". But watch out! Once they have your number, you will fight Hell to get them to leave you alone. Fortunately for us there are stalking laws. All we can do is hope that poor Tom (famous actor) gets out before he is sucked into the eternal vortex of "CLEAR". Well Russ, I'm glad that you decided to forge ahead with your impulses and experience. I really hope that you are successful doing what your original desire was in the first place...make people happy by creating a game that allows them to blow things and imaginary people to kingdom come. If I ever see a game that looks like a bunch of lunatics jumping up and down, and shouting "YAWMA"..."YAWMA"..."YAWMA"!!...and a lone gunman with an UZI firing into the crowd with a certain gleam in his eyes, I will know that you have obtained your final revenge. As for me, Freedom means lying around on the couch watching my favorite episode of "Ally McBeal" and knowing what my future holds as a couch potato. Name Withheld to protect the still innocent. =)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 3 Aug 1998 I really enjoyed your site!! I went to a couple of meetings last year with a lady friend, and I must admit that much of the behavior exhibited by her and those at the meeting were identical to your well written and well thought out document. I am a marketing rep., and work upwards of 50 hours per week. I told them frankly, that I did not need any more business in my life. I sort of thought it to be a fraud all along. Your article confirmed my beliefs.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Mon, 3 Aug 1998 Dear Ginny, Having been previously involved in Amway, it was great to hear your story. I was not involved to the extent you and your husband were and after a very short period got out. I believe, however that in the short time I was involved with Amway, that I experienced several of the things you expressed. Experience is a hard lesson, but an effective teacher, now I know better what is what. Your website should help those, who left not feeling so good about themselves. You know Ginny, how Jesus told us to approach our lifestyles and what the world tells us seem to be as far as east is from west. Jesus told us not worry about what we would eat and wear, the world tells us to be obsessed with those things. Thanks for your message.
Subject: Your website Tue, 04 Aug 1998 Russ -- I had to drop you a line about your site - it is simply priceless! That and you write fancy real good, too!- Seriously, your site is fantastic. I am often "evangelized" by a man I work with. His latest nonsense is Rexall drugs. And of course, when asked for medical substantiation of his claims that Rexall drugs has lowered his serum cholesterol (he is also on the Atkin diet, which is questionable in and of itself and has been, I believe, discredited by nutritionists and doctors alike) he's quick to not provide any. Keep up the good work - love the site.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 4 Aug 1998 It's too bad that there are so many skeptical people out there like yourself. Unfortunately, I don't think you really realize what you have given up. Not only a chance at fulfilling your dreams (if you have any) but also being in contact with people who have a goal in life and are not about to let anyone tell them how to achieve it (i.e. working 'till you're 65 or 70 to get a pension that doesn't EVEN keep you in the style you have become accustomed to). The people that I have met in the Amway business have ethics, morals and are more intellectual people than most I have met in my lifetime in the business world. I get praise for my accomplishments, unlike what is given in the corporate environment. When was the last time your "boss" said to you, "I am so proud of the work you have done", or "that was terrific"? I can bet you not very often, if at all. Reading all the garbage that's on the net these days about Amway makes me ill. What interested you about getting into the Amway business in the first place, and where did that interest and excitement go? Yes, excitement, 'cause you wouldn't have gotten in if you didn't believe or weren't excited about doing more for your life or in your life. It is similar to when you are first married. There is the anticipation of what's going to happen, excitement, belief in getting married. Then after 10, 12, 20, 25 years, the spark goes, it becomes boring, you lose interest, become involved in something else and once that spark has disappeared you decide, ah, heck, why stick around, I'll quit this marriage. BUT, what made you get married in the first place, what was the spark? Believe it or not the spark is still there, it's just that you have decided to give up because you're too lazy to work at it. You have to work at marriage the same as anything else, and this business you have to work at, it's not going to come to you. If you went out and bought a franchise for $200,000.00 you would work your little buns off to MAKE IT WORK, right? You're not going to lose $200,000.00, that's a life savings. But this, because it's "not really a business 'cause you only paid $200.00-$250.00 for it" you don't take seriously enough and you throw it away. Why? It is still YOUR BUSINESS, just as if you had paid $200,000.00. I guess you really didn't want this business to succeed or really didn't care, otherwise you would have stuck with it. A little work does wonders for people, especially integrity. I find people like yourself are so closed minded they can't see the forest for the trees. In every business you have to spend a little to make a money, no matter what it is. If I have to spend $100.00 a month now to make $100,000.00 a month in the next 2-3 years, then I believe it's worth it, for me and my family. AND my children are encouraging us to go out and build this business, not because they want tangible THINGS, but because they are being taught a good work ethic, NEVER GIVE UP ON SOMETHING YOU BELIEVE IN. If your children see their parents working hard to make a good life for them and their parents, they will do the same someday on their own. And something else, even if I don't end up making $100,000.00 a month like some Diamonds I KNOW PERSONALLY) and I make half that or 1/4 of that, I believe that the assocation with the people in this buisness has improved and enhanced my life ten-fold. I know I am a better person for just being in this business, and yes, I have integrity. I feel sorry for you because you have given up on something that could better your life just from the assocations and make you truly happy for the rest of your life. What you're doing by putting all this garbage on the net is only ruining your own chances at any success in the future because you are showing people that you have NO INTEGRITY.
Subject: YourAmwaypage... Wed, 5 Aug 1998 I don't know what to say to you, but I can't believe your ideas, you are a good writer, is incredible how much lies you can tell do easily, maan, I can't do that. You should be a writer, I tell you. The way I see your thoughs Amway It is not for you, Sorry.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 5 Aug 1998 I want to thank you for the info that you posted about Amway. At the moment I am in a less than desirable financial situation with a new baby at home. I went to two Amway meetings - the first one did not cut it for me. I had many questions but the old saying 'If it sounds to good to be true it probably is' kept creeping into my mind. Now that I have read the info you posted I am convinced not to join. Thank you for saving me the $170.50 that the starter kit now costs. I will also be passing the info on to a friend who is thinking of joining. Thanks again.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 05 Aug 1998 Typically I don't respond to silly web sites that serve no purpose however, I found myself compelled to have an adult discussion with an Amway critic. Why is it that you find it necessary to put a web page together about the Amway Corporation? I have had bad experiences in the past with department stores, resturants, etc. and have not gone to the great extend of putting a web page together. How childish..... Yes, I am an Amway Distributor in Upstate NY and have a very successful business, as do thousands. I can't understand why someone would go this far. This is your experience and yes there are others that have this same feeling but think of all the retired, wealthy distributors that this HAS worked for. I am 27 years old and my husband is 28. Our group is around the same age and we live a life full of "true" frienships, trips, beautiful things and have no JOBS. What more could someone with a college education behind her ask for. My JOB certaily wasn't getting me there. So Amway didn't work for you but it does work!!!! This business is NOT for everyone. Obviously it's NOT for YOU!!!! Not every little thing works for everyone, and the only guarantee in life is death. I don't find justification for your criticism however, who am I to do as you, have and judge someone I know nothing about. You could quite possible be the nicest person in the world! Just because you don't agree with something that makes you an expert on it? If you have put as much time into your business as this web page and reading letters you too could have an life full of luxary!!! I have friends with the same opinion as you regarding Amway and I still consider them close-personal friends, they are very proud of my accomplishments even if it's NOT for them. I'm sure this email will not make you stop to think or have any bearing on your thought process but it was nice sharing my experience with Amway with you and I wish you much success!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Wed, 5 Aug 1998 Hey Russ, Good idea for making money. Take every Amway person who writes to you and teach them how to use Microsoft Word at the very least. Do any of these people know how to spell??!! Another thing, maybe Bill Gates will give us RESIDUALS just for showing them how to use his product. Better yet, maybe he`s already in Amway! LOL Give em Hell man!!
Subject: Amway Thu, 06 Aug 1998 Hi Russel, Amway has recently invaded the yet unexploited teritory of India. Many people I know have literally jumped to grab the opportunity to make easy money. One such friend invited me to a meeting to introduce me to Amway. Being skeptical of pyramid schemes I investigated Amway in the Web and have come to know of startling amount of material against this scheme (scam is the word I want to use). Amongst other sites, your story appealed to me the most. I want to thank you to make your experience public. May it help many others. I am planning to use this material to inform other people I know. I hope you do not mind my copying this material and distributing to people I know.
Subject: Finished your Amway Story... Thu, 06 Aug 1998 I'm am an Amway distributor...and now realize that I had been ignoring the "gut feeling" my wife had for the past few months since our signing up. Funny, I've commented in the past about how "right on" she always is...but I ignored it in this case and chalked it up to her not being as big a dreamer as I. You really must add a link (I doubt he would mind) from a site published by an active Emerald in the business. He confirmed in an hour of reading all those nagging doubts about those things that just "didn't seem right" to my wife and I. I look back now and realize that all my emotions were very effectively played upon...and that I still thought I was able to run my business the way I thought fit - I now know that I would have never been able. I now understand why they pushed the things they pushed...and how they did it. I have yet to tell my sponsor of my choice to "join the ranks of the losers who quit". I feel bad for them (my sponsors), though, because I know they are equally unaware of what awaits them in the "elite world of success and winners". I ignored my inner voice...this is a bad thing. Enough said, for me, at least. Thanks for taking the time to post your experience.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Thu, 6 Aug 1998 I AM NOT IN AMWAY. I AM DOING A STUDY ON SOME SUCESS STORIES AND IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT ONE OF MY GUYS IS A DIAMOND IN THE AMWAY BUSS. AND I WILL TELL YOU THIS GET A LIFE FREIND BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT. AMWAY MAY VERY WELL BE A CULT BUT I WOULD RATHER SEE A CULT OF PEOPLE TRYING TO GET SUCESS THAN I WOULD A CULT OF PEOPLE KILLING EACH OTHER. SPEND YOU TIME ON SOMETHING WORTH CONCERING YOURSELF WITH RATHER THAN TRYING TO TEAR DOWN SOMEONES LAST HOPE OF MAYBE GETTING WHAT THEY WANT. AMWAY IS JUST LIKE ANY OTHER RISK YOU TRY IT AND YOU EITHER MAKE IT OR YOU DON'T
Subject: amway and family Fri, 07 Aug 1998 Hello. I'm writing to you because I am in an unusual situation that I hope to improve. I went to visit my uncle recently and found out that he had been indoctrinated into the promises of Amway. He and my aunt are both involved, and are doing their best to make her 16-year old son excited about it as well. I have nothing but love for my uncle, he's been one of my favorite people on my father's side of the family for all my life. My aunt is a new addition to my life, since he recently married her, but a very welcome addition, as well as her three wonderful kids that I am happy to call my cousins. When I heard about his involvement, all I knew about Amway was that it was an MLM, sort of like a legal chain letter, that had been involved in some lawsuits back in the 70s. He told me the whole spiel about how different the company was, and all that, and invited me very politely, and without a whole lot of pressure (for that I am greatful) to join up. I resolved to find out more information on the internet. I had a vague idea that it was a scam that could seriously harm him and his family, and like you the first sites I found were positive. But I grew tired of what was obviously promotional material, and started looking for critical analyses. I wasn't too surprised when I found dozens of web pages by former members anxious to warn people away. It was disturbingly similar to what I found when I researched scientology on a lark a few months ago. But what I was looking for was some clarity, and I have to say your page is one of the best, in that respect. I have already found a lot of helpful information just by looking at your page, but if you have the time I would appreciate advice. I am afraid to confront my uncle directly on it, for fear that his mind is already closed, and that I would only cut myself off from a very valued part of my family. But I am also afraid of what he might become if I do not act, and worse yet, what may happen to my aunt's son. He's 16 years old, often seems brighter than his parents, and he reminds me of myself at his age. I have the thought that I can at least save him from this mistake, if not my aunt and uncle. What can you reccomend as a starting approach? My first instinct is to point out to him how his own upline is ignoring the 10-customer rule and explaining how this rule is what distinguishes the legal from the illegal... he is a committed Christian, very sincere about living life properly and morally--and that is a lot to say from someone who is usually skeptical of Christians. If you have the time, I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 07 Aug 1998 Mr. Glasser, I don't intend to flame you. It sounds to me like you had a bad experience with the distributors you met. I am a distributor, am doing well, enjoying it immensely, and making some money. I appreciate your story and respect your right to voice your opinions. But, it is a people business, perhaps just not the right business for you. There's lots of ways of making money, Amway is just one of them. However, it's the best vehicle my wife and I have found. We'll just agree to disagree. Best of luck to you and yours, ****
Darn it, I DON'T WANNA agree to disagree!!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Fri, 7 Aug 1998 My husband and I became Amway distributors 4 1/2 years ago. I stuck it out for nearly 3 years before I finally told him I wasn't going to go to any more meetings, seminars, major functions, etc. The deceit, dishonesty(ex. all you have to do is buy $200 worth of products to get 100 PV; it's more like $350-400), cult-like aspect(I've seen at least one speaker start out a meeting joking about this by pretending to close the door, looking around furtively, and saying something like "don't let anybody in, this is a cult), and the slick, canned explanations to counter every objection I had. I'm not articulate, at least in speech, so was the loser in every conversation with my husband about "the business." Even though I got out of the system side, I still supported him in his desire to succeed. But now, a year and a half later and $5000 in debt, I am ready to have my name removed from the Amway partnership(though not the marriage). I am going to try to get him to investigate the anti-Amway websites by appealing to his own philosopy that you don't take other peoples' word for any thing, you check things out for yourself. If it doesn't bother his conscience to continue, I guess I'll still support that decision, but I personally cannot recommend the Amway business to anyone or participate in it myself.
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 07 Aug 1998 Thanks. The best part is the mail from other people. You get everybody opinion.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 08 Aug 1998 Hey Russell, You put up a good argument. I was at one time involved with Amway, but not any longer. Not because I didn't make money either. My family came first at the time and we were comfortable. I made money for day 1 and never ever lost any money. I didn't have any vast quantitiesof products to store 'cause there wasn't a need to keep them. I did have 2 extra distributor kits left, but they were cheerfully taken back and Iwas refunded all of my money for them. We still use Amway products to this day and have never found any problem with them. You know just as I do that not all sales people make money and neither do all Amway Dist. Not even your family doctor is profitable until about 5 yrs. in his full-time practice. All people are not honest and all people are not just plain good people. Every one has an opinion and are entitled to that thought. I'm not defending Amway Corp. or their Dist., just telling you my personal experience.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Sat, 08 Aug 1998 Poor Ginny, like so many people, blaming others for your own mistakes. Amway distributors come from all walks of life. Some are good, some are not. If you met a dishonest grocer, would you then assume all grocers are crooks? An Amway business is like most things in life; you get from it in proportion to what you put into it. Each directoship and line of sponorship have their differences. You were, quite obviously, not affilitted with the Britt line of sponsorship. I am so sorry that you were involved with the wrong kind of people. Our business, and our "upline", is comprised of caring people truly comitted to our success. The business works. We do not "pressure" people or deceive them. When you have thorougly vented your anger, try attending a Britt Associates sponsored meeting. Better yet, if your ever in Phoenix, let Nancy and I know. You will find an entirely different breed of people within our group. Best wishes, whatever you do with your future. Dr. ***** (an Amway distributor for two years, and satisfied.)
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 08 Aug 1998 Hi! Good page. I believe the more information we all have to consider whatever we will do is for the better. I was in Amway. I wanted to do it because of the products. I felt (and still do) believe that they are well engineered and deliver good value for the money. Additionally, they are backed by the money back guarantee, which I like. What made me uncomfortable with Amway was some of the rhetoric that I heard from uplines. I make very good money designing telecommunications distribution systems. I am respected by co-workers and our customers. We see the difference we make in people's lives. But when I explained to folks in Amway about this and about my desire to start my own business *in a differnt area* (agriculture), I was met with laughter. This really shocked me. I believe that you get out of life what you put into it, all in all. That would go for no matter what you do, be it Amway, or some other career. But I was deeply troubled by my upline's attitude when I told them what my dream was. It was not a new car or jewels. My dream is to do (and keep on doing) something as long as I love doing it. I was very direct with the upline, stating that we can all contribute to society. And if we love what we do, that's so much the better. But this person wanted nothing to do with that. I was *mocked* for wanting to pursue my dreams that did not include Amway more than the level I stated. I still wanted to buy product and if folks wanted to buy from me, I would gladly do that and even do some retail sales. I wanted that. But this person insisted that I would be a failure at what I want to do, and that I needed Amway. I said to him "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush - I'll buy product and want to sell product, but I do not want to purchase lots of reading material or attend the regular meetings". He indicated to me that I was making a mistake, and I said, that is part of the journey of life. I let me Amway membership lapse when I determined that I was looked at by *this* distributor as more of a revenue stream than a person with dreams and goals. I recently saw this person in the store. He walked by and did not say hello (I did). More than that, he did not look like he was happy. That is indeed sad. Thanks for your web page(s).
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 9 Aug 1998 hmmmmmm appears you have had a terrible experience with a terrible person, happens all the time...... in EVERY endeavor. right? I have been to a few meetings from the Britt system (of Amway). They certainly do NOT use these tactics at all. I suppose all the diffrent systems are diffrent. I was told at my 1st meeting all of the obligations of joining, including an investment of nearly 4,000 dollars a year for meetings, tools. etc. I knew this going in... I have been in the business for 4.5 months, I have 28 nice folks in my down line so far. I will easily make Direct within the year.. I spend approx, 20 hours a week speaking and showing the plan.. I tell folks up front that the products are good but CAN be a little pricey, but simply the cost of making the system work..... by the way the first person I sponsered is our family doctor!!... he has over 20 in his downline already, he has only been in for about 3 mo..... ... good luck in what ever you do....... uh maybe you could get a job at the National Enquirer...... you seem to have talent they might find marketable... *s*
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 09 Aug 1998 outstanding...read you after Van Druff...thank god someone's telling the truth about MLM!!!
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