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Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sat, 12 Sep 1998
Mr.Glasser,
Bravo sir on a fantastic story.I must say one of the
best moves (buying a P.C.)that I have made in the last 2 months,has saved me
from one of the worst.Today an Amway rep. spoke to my wife & I.We were both
interested.This evening I decided to "check out " Amway.Quite simply what do
you or anyone else have to gain by spreading these "untruths" about Amway?
Thanks to you and a few other sites I'm saying go away to Amway!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 13 Sep 1998 Hi Russel Thank you so much for your page. I love C programming and hardcore hacking on Unix. Have been doing some cool systems programming in Perl at my corporate job recently. I am a single guy and am "in Amway". But not yet lucky enough to find a pretty girlfriend through the Internet! I got started in Amway when I was doing my Masters in Comp. Sc. The first thing I did before signing up was to check out the Web for Amway. To my great excitement, I found a lot of great Amway-bashing sites. You know what I mean - those sites that give you the inside secrets of Amway. The more Amway-bashing sites I saw, the more was my urge to be in this "thing"! And I thought it was just a business! Wow! There are people so passionate against Amway? Am I now part of a cult? Cool! For just a mere $200 bucks, listening to just a dozen tapes a month, reading 1/2 and hour a day and being allowed at brain washing sessions? Plus I get to be the "bad guy" - the guy that makes money off unsuspecting victims. I couldn't have thought of this in my wildest dreams! I'd pay $2,000 to be in something like this! (I'd pay more if they paid me more at my job!) As an added bonus, I can make people leave, if I don't like them, by saying just 4 words - "I am in Amway". Whenever I am feeling bad about Amway, I just go to sites like yours. They give me encouragement and stronger belief in Amway. Moreover, your site really helps because before sponsoring people I just point them to your cool site or to any of Sidney's mirror sites. If they survive, I encourage them to find something bad about Amway on the Internet. If they still survive, I sponsor them. Thanks to the Internet. It really makes qualifying prospects a breeze. Do keep up the good work. Excellent sites such as yours help the smart Amway dudes get the quality job done faster. I think people should know what they are getting into. Yup! The Amway cult is tougher than the job cult. It can accidently make one quit the job cult. Your service is greatly appreciated by me and by other Amway groupies like me. I just don't understand why the other Amway distributors get emotionally mad and defensive at helpful guys like you. Once again, I couldn't thank you enough. Subject: Re: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 13 Sep 1998 Hiya, As I always say, if you got any kind of pleasure and entertainment value out of reading my website then it was all worthwhile. If you "qualify" your prospects by telling them to read my web site, thereby "filtering" out people who would otherwise be shelling out a few hundred bucks to you and your upline before quitting, so much the better. I think that pretty much sums up my purpose in being here in my little corner of cyberspace. Oh, that and getting women into bed of course.Just kiddin'. > The first > thing I did before signing up was to check out the Web for Amway. To my > great excitement, I found a lot of great Amway-bashing sites. You know > what I mean - those sites that give you the inside secrets of Amway. The > more Amway-bashing sites I saw, the more was my urge to be in this > "thing"! And I thought it was just a business! Wow! There are people so > passionate against Amway? Am I now part of a cult? Cool! Listen, if you would like me to introduce you to some other opportunities that have a high level of negative feedback on the web, I can introduce you to several. Let's see, first there's Scientology; then there's illegal pyramid chain letters, devil worship, and child pornography. And there are also some groups in Waco, Texas and Rancho Santa Fe, California, who you might enjoy meeting. On a personal note, I would like to express my sincerest hope that you will someday be able to participate in any or all of these activities as well. > Plus I get to be > the "bad guy" - the guy that makes money off unsuspecting victims. I > couldn't have thought of this in my wildest dreams! I'd pay $2,000 to be > in something like this! (I'd pay more if they paid me more at my job!) Well, I guess the obvious question for me to ask is whether you are in fact the guy who makes money off unsuspecting victims, or one of the unsuspecting victims who gets their money taken. Given the choice I would rather be the former than the latter. So I hope that Amway does, in fact pay you more than they pay you at your job. (How are you doing so far, anyway?) > As an added bonus, I can make people leave, if I don't like them, by > saying just 4 words - "I am in Amway". Try "I haven't showered in two weeks." It works even better. > I just > don't understand why the other Amway distributors get emotionally mad > and defensive at helpful guys like you. > > Once again, I couldn't thank you enough. I can't say you're welcome enough. Since you are enjoying my services so much, I hope you will continue to bring up the subject of this web site at conventions and online, and encourage your upline to work a mention in their tapes as well. See ya... Subject: Re: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 13 Sep 1998 Hey, thanks for replying. At least somebody wants to talk to an honest, sincere Amway guy! >Let's see, first there's Scientology; then there's illegal pyramid >chain letters, devil worship, and child pornography. And there are >also some groups in Waco, Texas and Rancho Santa Fe, California, who >you might enjoy meeting. Drat! All of these? How was I to know! And none of these guys approached me! Those guys are probably selfish! Not willing to share, I guess. Maybe their profit sharing bonuses are much larger and they want to keep it all. Beginning to wonder whether the 'products are expensive' in devil worship also. The devil's a tough master. He can zap you to hell if you don't generate PV for him! >So I hope that Amway does, in fact pay you more than >they pay you at your job. (How are you doing so far, anyway?) Yeah, a lot of 'em come to Amway with $$ signs on their eyeballs. They start checking results too soon. When they don't see enough of green in a couple of years; they vanish off the face of the earth! Like any other committed-for-life distributor whether at zero PV or Crown Ambassador, I am just getting started! >Try "I haven't showered in two weeks." It works even better. Man! Why didn't I think of that before? But with all those "boxes of soap in the basement" I have no excuse for not taking a shower. >Since you are enjoying my services so much, I hope you will continue >to bring up the subject of this web site at conventions and online, >and encourage your upline to work a mention in their tapes as well. Aha! So you ARE thinking of residual income! That's the way to go. More hits, more advertizers and your webpage becomes an income generating entity. I don't blame you at all. You put in your time and effort into this thing. Not to mention having a girlfriend with expensive tastes! You need some return on the site other than just "thank you" emails from fellows like me. Who said people outside Amway are 'broke losers'? I don't buy that. >"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all >progress depends on the unreasonable man." > -- George Bernard Shaw I like that quote! Amazing Shaw actually said this. I thought it was just me!
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 14 Sep 1998 Hi! I read your story of your Amway experience. I found it to be interesting. I recently saw the plan from a Diamond and am seriously looking into it. The results are amazing. Because of your extensive story I would like to ask you a few questions if I may. 1. Do you currently own another business? 2. What kind of income do you make? Net? 3. How many of the "plans" I believe they call them did your show/share? 4. How many "conventions" did you attend? 5. Do you think you could write a "story" about any business you become involved in? Thank you for your time! Please do not respond if you are not currently a business owner and if you are not currently making over $200K/yr.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 14 Sep 1998 I've read your entire story. If we use the movies rating system your expeience is a G! Mine on the other hand would be a "Goodfellas" type story. Thanks for putting your stuff on the line. Just Forgive and go forward. Thats my plan! Congratulations and continued success.
Subject: amascam Tue, 15 Sep 1998 Thanks for the story, I was just about sucked in to the scam. Your story is exactly my experience, my wife and I did a "kit opening" but are not going any further, no tapes, no functions, it's too wierd. Something just didn't seem quite right, clone is a good word for these people. I'm going to return the tapes to my sponsor and I hope they will leave me alone after that. I'm not going to be mean or anything, but I definitely want out. Why do you sappose these alledged multi-millionares don't pay for the functions or events and tapes, catalogs and books? Because thats where they make their money. Cabella's, REI, Sears and JC Penny send you free catalogs! What's the deal. As you described in your story, these people are very bizzare and not people I want as my friends. Take it easy, and thanks again for your story, (I wish I would have read it before I spent the cash on the KIT! oh well!)
Subject: Ginny's Amway Story Pt 3 Tue, 15 Sep 1998 Ginny, I am sorry about your upline wishing to sleep with your husband. If she wasn't in the picture I am sure you would have sabotaged your husband another way. You failed to mention if your baby was OK when you did make it back. Although I will never know how engorged breasts feel; my wife breastfed and told me how painful it was when she went without feeding our baby for hours at a time (he is above average in his percentile for height and weight at 14 months.) As far as I can tell; you overeacted because you were uncomfortable due to the situation you were in. Although I would never drive 16 hours to a seminar; I cannot understand why you would not prepare yourself for such a long journey (i.e. breastpump, etc...) It would not have killed your baby to drink formula for a day or two or even up to 1 year. The bottom line is that I believe you are afraid to stick your neck out; and must make all around you suffer because of it. Heck, you can't even create your own website, let alone have your own e-mail address (you can get them free of charge through hotmail and other providers.) At least I have the full support of my wife. Her Dad was a Diamond until he passed away 2 years ago. In addition, we are blessed with all the support of our sponsors and our direct. We still work two jobs; but find the time to recruit new business and more people willing to put forth the effort to better themselves. I regret that Amway wasn't for you. It takes a real go-getter to succeed; obviously you wish to blame others for your shortcomings. I wouldn't want to rely on someone who isn't smart enough to properly prepare themself for what is ahead; I am surprised your husband didn't divorce you after your fiasco on the road. Although my wife and I have had our differences and temptations; if we never make a penny from Amway, at least we learned how to become closer to each other. I do not believe we have to misrepresent our business in any way to be sucessful. My wife's dad sold a lot of product and people wanted to get in to his business. I will not waste my time with anyone who is not interested. I only want people who wish to succeed; not be a thorn in their husband's side. Very Truly Yours, ***** A Diamond in the Making
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Tue, 15 Sep 1998 Hi Ginny, My name is Penny and I just read your story. I'd say it's unbelievable, but I know first hand the things you went through since I was a "core" member of the Britt AMO for 4 years. If you're interested, my story is actually posted on the MLM Survivors Home Page website - http://members.tripod.com/~nomorescams/index.htm I'd be interested to hear your feedback. I'm glad you posted your story.....I think it's really important for people to know the realities of Amway and the AMOs. Penny
Subject: amway Tue, 15 Sep 1998 I really enjoyed your page. I have a friend involved in some kind of weight loss thing right now and decided to research MLM a little to see what was out there. I was actually approached by Amway 5-6 years ago when I was just starting college. They used the same techniques about not mentioning the companyn and this guy actually drove from Nashville to Memphis to recruit me! Of course, he said it was also to visit a church. The moment he said Amway, I got up and left. It would have been a lot more fun had I stuck around a little! ps-- check out http://www.prankcalls.net/ when you can. This is a group on my record label and I think it would be funny to get a call on Amway. Let me know if you have any ideas.
Subject: amway Wed, 16 Sep 1998 I previously sent a message and it is quite likely that you didn't receive it or you can't answer all your mail, but I would like to once again ask you for your help. My son is involved in Amway and I would like to know how I may approach him or convince him that he is putting his life on hold. He has spent several years and all his energy chasing the "dream". Thank you for any suggestions you may have.
Subject: Thanks! Wed, 16 Sep 1998 Russel, Thanks for the Amway rap - I have a friend who is several weeks into it and needs your info - I've printed it out so he can read it in between his listening to tapes and reading the book! - He hasn't invested yet sooooooooooooooo.......... I also enjoyed the rest of your site - good stuff / quotes / music(CTD fan) etc. - Let me recommend a read/listen to some of Jackson Browne lyrics. I am an almost(less than 2 weeks) 50 year old 'freak' with my feet firmly planted in the late 60's! I work as a programmer (writing in 'I thought that was dead 10 years ago' COBOL & CICS) for a local community college - 'tis OK - not great fun but often interesting! Thanks again for the info & the site.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 17 Sep 1998 They've tried, but they'll never recruit me as long as I've got a hole in my arse. Ditto for chain letters, and religion. AMWANK WANKWAY AMWAY WANKWANKWANK Liked your story
Subject: your amway page... Fri, 18 Sep 98 sept 17, 1998 Dear Russ I found your commentary on Amway very interesting. It is true with all things in this world you have good and bad. I do think people can make a lot of money in the Amway business but i also think alot of people fail at it as well. I just recently joined up on the Internet and i find it very interesting. I imagine you get a lot of letters from both side of the issue. I am an Amway distributor but more than that i have my own mind and thoughts and i do not follow blindly along and i think some aspects of it are bad but also good. I don't like to think that i am a sheep but i see many people that are and it is very interesting how people react to certain situations. I just realized how often i used the word interesting in this letter if you want to call it that. I will sign off now and i will look for a reply from you. Sincerely bababa not sheep
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 18 Sep 1998 Well I will not dear so&so U because firstly I dont think it will matter to you and secondly I am not exactly feeling upto it right now. This is the first time I checked out the web for Amway and read your page...UNFORTUNATELY.... Well on the other hand maybe not.. I have joined only a few days back and am as they say in Amway CHARGED UP :) . I have joined for the reasons they give & some of mine too. I agree to a lot of your points. Yes the company is making money. It is there for MONEY not for charity of would U rather prefer that? I have spent working for the last 10 years for large corporations and have made a hell lot of money for them, I cant say that I am getting a pension or got a thank You letter from them.... NOT THAT I AM ASKING THEM FOR THAT...... I am a busy man in ressesion when most of the people in my business (I SELL COMPUTERS) are sitting idle. It gives me a chance to get in touch with all my friends I been wanting to meet but could not. I am spending more time with my wife then I ever did...Dont forget what will happen when my network grows.......BIG..HUGE. Man can U sleep al right now a days?? Lots of people who could have benefitted like me would not join Amway because of U. Amway does have its faults but it gives a lot of chance to guys like me who have no qualms about working our ass's off. THINK ABOUT IT! IF U REALLY WANT TO BE FAIR THEN GO AHEAD AND TELL THE OTHER SIDE TOO..THE ONE TO DO WITH SUCCESS.......:) BYE.... PS: by the way I am in India....and life out here is very tough.....
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Fri, 18 Sep 1998 Just read most of your Amway story... Fascinating reading I want to thank you for keeping this page alive... It may just help me convince my wife that we should not get involved in this at all at any level... I love the power of the internet for communicating these ideas and information quickly and efficiently across the world... I can't write a long letter now as it is very late, but suffice it to say that despite what a "multi-diamond" told me last night, I am a very successful father and husband and professional and I have no desire to fill his pockets with my money... We are going to try to remain friends with these people, but I doubt that will happen... maybe they will become diamonds themselves one day... good for them if they do. Good luck to you and your computer science career...
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Fri, 18 Sep 1998 AAAAAAGH!!! Russ! It's been over 4 months since you updated your response page!! I'm in withdrawals here!! I don't suffer fools, but I love to see fools suffer! So give us some more of that sweet, sweet Ambabble soon!! See ya...
Subject: YourAmwaypage... Fri, 18 Sep 1998 my friend is trying to get me started in amway i am having second thought 's about it help me out please . thank you
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Check this out! Sun, 20 Sep 1998 Hey! I am about to enter the 'evil world of Amway'. I have $200 to invest so I thought I would give it a shot. It sounds to me that you have done your research on Amway, cults, and the like. I just want to say to you that I think you have over analyzed this thing just a bit. You make a great point when you say that you love programming and you love to go to work (I dont know if you said that verbatim, but that's the impression that I got). I think my whole motivation for this is diversification for me. I love to experience everything and I dont like to put all of my eggs in one basket. Have you ever been in sales? It's what I do for a living. Im not a 'door to door' salesman. Instead im a guy who has connections for many services and love connecting people to these services. Everything from roofing to air travel. I thought that being a product distributor would "expand my empire". In other words, I can hook you up with just about anything. I evaluate the service and if I decide it's quality, then great. Its a different concept in sales and I find that it works well. I HATE DOOR TO DOOR SALESMEN. CAR SALESMEN FIT IN THIS CATEGORY TOO. I have another thought that I would appreciate your input. I believe that a strong selling point of Amway is convenience. You want something. Call me and I'll order it for you and have it shipped to your door. No driving for either of us. I do it by computer. With my discount you might save or equal the store price. You are buying convenience of not having to go to the store. I personally like to go to the store, but not all the time. Its kind of like pizza delivery. Anyway, tell me what you think about that. One more thought. I dont think that this is a cult in the way that you defined it although I can see your point. I believe that weak minded individuals, or lost souls, may fall under the influence of over anxious people. I think that you are not one of those people and therefore have nothing to be afraid of. I am also not a lost soul, therefore my trek into Amway... E mail me and let me know what you think. If anything it makes great reading.
Subject: thanx for the info Sun, 20 Sep 1998 It is sad for me to see people so enveloped in a program that doesn't promise results. I was approached very recently by a fellow co-worker, and want so much to let him know that life is better when you work hard and earn something; he and his upline visited me and talked about superficial worldly activities and friendships they are doing with their organization. I am a math teacher at a high school and have started my own private business doing Internet consulting. I was interested in the prospect of offer computer related goods (if they were cheaper than I could get them as a reseller through my distributors). In my first real visit, I made it clear, I was not interested in an "AMWAY" organization; afterwhich, they spent an hour informing me I was misinformed about AMWAY, and then, we are AMWAY. Talk about irony. Anyway, thanks for the info.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Mon, 21 Sep 1998
Dear Mr. Glasser,
All I can say is THANK YOU! My husband and I were considering
joining Amway. He left the final decision up to me. I am supposed to
go to a meeting tomorrow night. My instincts were right, these people
are barely legal. They use lies to coerce people into thinking they can
make millions of dollars. I spoke to a few ex-Amwayers, they ended up
LOOSING more money then gaining. There is alot of lawsuits right now
from people who didn't clue into the illegal tendencies of the people
who are higher up in the company. I am not going to get involved! Your
almost "initiation" is almost identical to the things that are going on
right now. The problem is that the people who are currently involved
are lifetime friends of my husbands. I hope this doesn't ruin a
friendship. I cannot see how I can live by my code of ethics in a group
like this. If you read any of the current pages like yours, what you
and I went through, is just the tip of the iceburg. I will be spreading
the word.
Subject: Amway Story Mon, 21 Sep 1998 Hello: It was interesting to stumble across your story. I commend you on your smart decision to avoid the Amway Corporation. What do you do for a living now?. Do you have your own business, work in an industry, or a profession?. What do you plan for the future?. I would be interested to know. Have a great day
Subject: Amway Tue, 22 Sep 1998 I read your Amway page. Every thing you said I have thought of or experienced. I have a short story for you. Our upline told us that if someone leaves a message on your machine and says they are canceling a house meeting, ...ignore their message! Pretend you didn't get it. Just show up anyways, because people usually won't cancel to your face. When we wanted out when we realized the money was in the books and tapes, they ignored us! They kept charging our checkcard after we told them 6 times we didn't want anymore tapes. My guess is they were using the same strategy as the housemeetings. I have since been warning all of my family and friends to STAY AWAY FROM AWAY. One more thing, we joined Amway through INA- International Networking Association. They joked that it stood for It's Not Amway.
Subject: my reply to your amway page Tue, 22 Sep 1998 Russ, The MLM Mafia knows where you live. All joking aside, I loved the site. It was simplistic in its discourse, but not as simplistic as the Amway, NSA, or any other MLM business sale. I love reading about scams and people with "get rich quick" or even "get rich slowly" mentalities. Sleazy sales people are so fun to listen to...Blah, blah, blah. I am proud to say that I too am a computer programmer and love working as a consultant. At 26 years old, I have already attained a salary over $100K and feel fortunate to have not fallen for snake oil salesmen. Sites like yours keep me on the know and out of harms way. Best of luck to you,
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Wed, 23 Sep 1998
Attn: Russel Glasser.
I read over you letter on the internet and was very disgusted by your
remarks. For the record I am not an Amway distributor at this point in
time, but am thinking of joining (my reason for reading your letter) My
experience was totally the opposite to yours. The person who introduced me
to Amway told me strait out that it was Amway. He then showed me how one
makes money and so for. I've been in business since I was in grade 8. I am
20 years of age now and have open a total of 5 business. 2 are still open
to date and are doing very successful. I will say for the record that the
method of sponsering people is diffrent for every group, and that not every
method is correct or right. But like every business you are going to
receive good and bad service. If you look at "Amway" as a bussiness (The
sales and destributorship of products directly to people households) it is a
perfactly good and legal business. There marketing plan also for the sake
of agrument is also very effective and it to is also legal. Now the tapes,
books, and functions are and never have been a part of Amway. What has
happend here is that someone (Probaly a diamond in the Amway business) has
independanty started a business to promote a proven method of success
(Proven by meens that someone has done it), all the tapes are are stories of
people methods of success, or tales of what they whent through in to succeed
(True or not, is up to discussion). The books are simple motivational one
that you can buy at any book store, the upline just happens to like them,
and promote them downline. I have tasted success a couple of times in my
life already, and one thing I am thankfull for is my mentors. See most
parents have told there children you are who you associate (hang around)
with. If you want to be rich hang around rich people if you want to be a
bum hang around bums. This teaching method of tapes, books and seminars is
that tipe of teaching method, Amway people can't personaly be around
diamonds all the time, so they listen to tapes that tell them who others
made it. The books teach them good morals about life that I personaly
believe everyone should learn (In Amway or not). That is why you can buy
those books anyware. All the functions are is so that you can meet with
some of those people. So who make all the money off all those tapes books
and seminars. Of course someone does (When you reach direct you receive a
percentage of all the money made from Tapes books and seminars. Also you
make money off of Coke products, MrCristy Cookies, Delmonty fruit, Orlando
Magic Ticket sales, MCI AT&T, and the list goes on. What this is called,
and you probably were'nt informd about this. Not many people are, is profit
sharing. So anytime someone buy or uses above poducts, in Amway or not,
Amway people make money. ;) ) Let me ask you this your going to college,
one you probably pay for. You buy books for the courses you take. Maby the
ocassional tape. You attend classes and sometimes seminars on things you
wish to learn about. All of wich you pay for. Now you spend 4-5 years
doing so (How much does this cost you), full time might I add. Now all the
teachers tell you, you must do what and everything they tell you inorder to
become successfull in the area they teach, if not you fale. I could go on.
My point is if you wanted to, and I'm sure with your proven abuility you
could, you could find holes in anything today, Yes even the school system.
Ending points: AMWAY is legal. Proven by law. It is not a scam. There is
a good thing and a bad thing about Amway's Marketing plan; good, anyone can
get in; bad, anyone can get in. All I'm saying is that you pobably
unfortunatly ran into some bad people, (Like the bad service you can find in
any confentional business).
Also look way back when Franchising first started. Society looked apon it
the same way people look at MLM today. Millionares were created and many
people wish they could afford to buy a McDonalds. I wonder were you will be
in 5 years and were most Amway people will be in 5 years.
The pesident of Wallmart stated that in the future everything will be
deliverd to ones home. Everyone will purchase products out of there home
saving them time and money, for both the manufature and for the consumer.
Funny isn't that were Amway is headed.
Just my personal oppinion.
And for future referances get all the facts (Not just a couple of weeks
worth tost together) before you freek yourself out.
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 24 Sep 1998
The Foisy's wrote:
> I've been in business since I was in grade 8. I am
> 20 years of age now and have open a total of 5 business. 2 are still open
> to date and are doing very successful.
What kind of businesses?
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Sat, 26 Sep 1998
Russell Glasser wrote:
> > I've been in business since I was in grade 8. I am
> > 20 years of age now and have open a total of 5 business. 2 are
> still open
> > to date and are doing very successful.
>
> What kind of businesses?
Funny in your story they were pritty persistant.
When I was in grade eight I designed ski and snowboard wear. Companies
name was Banumbo ski and snowboard. I eventually sold it to a company
called True North Clothing. To date I don't think they did anything
with the designs but the have ask me to market it if they do, do
something. Second company was called "InTents Steam Baths". I
manufatured and provided the service of portable steam baths. This will
be my fith year in operation. The company is stearing in a direction to
manufature more instead of providing the service. (This is one of the
two companies that are still in operation). I also started up a company
named "Big Show Perductions". We did one trade show called "The Big Toy
Show". It servived its first trial run. But it didn't make enough to
run a second time. My fourth business was a extreme sports magazine
that I had three partners in we called it GURU. We never even made our
first ishue, do to financhial reasons and some other stuff. My last and
most successfull bussiness is JF Marketing. Were I a marketing and
advertisng consultant. JF also has alowed me to become an independant
sales rep.
So thats what I do. Here is a pic.
Believe it or not, he actually sent me a picture of himself. I don't know what I was supposed to do with a picture of a dopey, grinning fratboy type. Bow to it?
Subject: Hi There Thu, 24 Sep 1998 Hi There, I have been reading your web page with interest. Three years ago my husband and I became invoved with scamway ( no that is not a typo) We gave this wonderful business everyhting we had nad guess what it did not work on a consistent basis. i soon discovered that if you have anorigan thought or question that you are not "part of the team" Never being one to follow blindly I questioned ALL the inconsistencies I found. As you can imagine that took quite a bit of time!!! Anyway the bottom line is that $19,000.00 later and having sposered more than 40 YES 40 personals we were lucky to be making $400.00 on a good month. For all the promises and even the threats (and there were many) I even have some recorded we were told that it msut be us. Now, we might be tempted to believe that except for one tiny thing. Both my husband and I have several very succesful businesses both here and in Europe so we obviously know how to build a business so what was wrong. Well, according to the almighty upline we just did not have good enough people skills, wrong again we own a company that teaches motivation and goal setting. We work with major companies so that could not be it. The bottom line is this, everyone wants success, everyone wants the American dream and this company has manufactured some people who have made fortunes with tools that supposedly teach how to have it all and do nothing. I guess we learned some valualessons and we lost some dear friends because they did not want to be around AMWAY clones. Still we did have the good sense to tuck our tails between our legs and say OK you were right, we're back to normal now. Will Amway work, of course it will work for some after all if you throw enough stuff on the wall something is bound to stick but I can tell you from experience that most people do not make it and that is not thier fault it is because they do have a dream and they do want more but I promise you this you will have a better chance of success if you just go with your gut instinct and do not let anyone feed you a line. I do not care what anyone says, it is only going to work for those who ask no questions and who follow blindly. Ask them how much is made from the sale of tools. The answer will probably be nothing the truth is that the majority of the money at Emerald and above is made from tools. Keep your money in your pocket, or at least spend it on someone that will really fire you up to go out and achieve and above all DO NOT LET ANYONE TELL YOU IT IS YOUR FAULT IT IS NOT WORKING. kEEP YOUR SELF RESPECT THAT IS THE FIRST THING THEY TRY TO TAKE FROM YOU.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 25 Sep 1998
Dear Ginny:
Nice Anti-Amway web site.
What was that address?
ahhh....
http://www.willynet.com/rglasser/amway/index.html
I am no expert on A.A. web sites but yours looks good enough to get the
job done. As the Bible says "He who has ears, let him hear". Well, if
somebody has ears, then your site does some good talking.
I was never in Amway. I know something about generation of wealth (net
worth $300,000 at age 34) and I know others who have outstanding net
worth ($80 Million and up) and so I can see how does authentic business
work, and normal economics. (But that doesn't get me anywhere with
Amway people, because I do not worship their cult).
So anyway I saw the sales pitch once and it seemed like
a car without an engine (no obvious means of wealth production, such as
a factory, a farm, an oil yard or a steel mill. Nothing produced means
it is not a business, instead, it is thru simple addition a leach on
other activities that produce).
So I crept away from that meeting without strong feelings about amway,
I just wasn't interested. It was not worth thinking about.
However, I have become more anti-amway due to the behaviors of those
I have known in life.
All you need is to know 1 or 2 or 3 people in Amway, and then, even if
you never were A.A. before, it is enough to become seriously annoyed.
Your website is critical because you have done a great labor, and now I
don't have to.
People that I know that are suffering from the Amway delusion, I can
simply refer them to your site.
And this letter, I can simply carbon copy to them!
Are you listening Bill & Lalia ??? Are you listening Tim & Jen????
Time to get out of the rubber room!!!! Wake up call!!!!
I'm getting real tired of seeing you screw up the lives of yourselves
and people like Rich Navarro. You're really confusing him with
your scamway, and having a direct effect on his ability to succeed!!
But don't worry, I'm being very polite and don't want to create a tug of
war over his mind. But do you really get pride out of confusing people?
Your friends the Rikki's know that Amway is Scamway, so how many sharp
people does it take.... before you finally admit it, and get out???
You can't get out.... not until you all admit, that you've been
stupid!!! You will have to admit, as Ginny does in her web pages, that
you have been very very naive and childish.
And then, having admitted error, one can regain dignity and pursue a
normal life.
I'm sure a good Anti-Amway web-site will help immensely. So there it
is.
Thanks Ginny! God Bless. Good luck with your kid, glad you survived
the car accident. Don't make a lifetime effort out of being Anti-Amway,
just know the truth. Truth stands by itself without a lot of
maintenance required, I'd hate to see these people actually get to
bugging you with their psychological problem.
Sincerely,
*****
P.S. Only on the web 2 more days, so you can't hardly write me back.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Fri, 25 Sep 1998
Dear Rglasser:
Very glad you did the web page. I sent some mail to Ginny also.
The most interesting things about the replies is about how negative,
vindictive, and vicious many of them are.
They are not courteous, or kind, towards you.
This is called "emotional abuse" and it is just more cult tactics.
Look at the guy who says "I pity you" from "my home on the beach of
Maui".
It is very improbable to be true, but it gives you that sour feeling.
YOU DID THE RIGHT THING! Amway is Scamway. It can only feed itself off
of the legitimate businesses.... The Weyerhauser's, the Boeing's, the
General Electrics. They built real product, real wealth, and provide
real paychecks and real jobs and real heat and light and buildings that
we can all work and live in.
Amway provides nothing. YOU ARE CORRECT. It doesn't matter if some guy
says "I'm 3rd generation Amway, my parents are wealthy and soon I will
be too" blah blah blah...
It doesn't matter because sure there are multiple generations of crooks
out there. Doesn't matter. Don't let the sour-heads insult you overly,
don't let it bother you. Your site is a good, good service. After 20
minutes of surfing, I thought it the best. Especially the ingredients
on what a cult is all about (it's a new family, ostracization of old
friends/family, "love bomb" support network, fatigues you, tires you,
maybe even malnourishes you... with Scamway candy bars and Scamway
Kool-Aid, no kidding, malnourishment yes!) So anyway your web site is
just great.
Nice job! If they are like other lunatic cults (Mormons, KKK, etc.,
then look for them to get violent in the future. That's why Mr. "Phil"
was a bit fearful at the end. These people are lunatics who build a
life of lies. They belong in a rubber room, but they are not
contained. So, be wary of them. They are not normal.)
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 25 Sep 1998
JUST A LITTLE MORE FROM ME.......
Asides from the remarkable "emotional abuse" hostility that the Amway
types show you ("Get a life, loser", "you're a fool", etc. etc., and
meanwhile I spotted your photograph and you appear thoughtful &
intelligent) I wanted to add another 2 cents that is not yet said.
The Amway guys have a point! (Most cults do, it's just what they do
with their point that stinks) and the point is that we don't want to
work, work, work, work just so that we can have absolutely nothing, get
old, and live in a trailer until we are dead of cancer.
>From the 50's, we inherited this "job attitude", that we must just lick
the boots of an employer for modest pay, be broke all the time on an
inadequate salary, join the union, buy a small house on a big mortgage,
get suckered over every month by bills, and get a gold watch when we
turn 60.
Some of the "job thing" is OK, but after about 10 years and you are in
your 30's, it gets old. But what are the real alternatives?
Scamway types say: 1. Work a job until you die.
2. Join Amway and be a millionaire.
They say there are no other options.
OK then... I want to add the 3rd option!!! And Russell, you're getting
out of college, you listen up too!
Wealth creation in American can be shared by taking ownership in the
corporations. Ever heard of Microsoft stock???????? (Go work for
Microsoft, Russell, they're still generous and after 10 years of working
for $90K per year, then you can really tell the illiterate Amway pigs to
take a hike. And because I'm in Seattle, then you can phone me on a
local call. And it's pretty here.)
But anyway, you have to mix your "job" with corporate ownership. Get
up, go to work everyday, and bank that extra $1500 per month. Except
you don't bank it, you buy shares!!!!!!!! Buy DELL! Buy INTEL! Buy
Microsoft! Buy AT&T!!! Buy SAFEWAY for crying out loud, it goes up
over 30% per year!!!!
You have to get educated about the biggest and most authentic money
engine on the face of the Earth------Wall Street. And you can't be
mentally retarded about it, you must study and become educated, because
you can get into Wall Street and lose a fortune in a week.
Books like "One up on Wall Street" by Peter Lynch are timeless and
explain what is the real pathway. Young people, willing to work with
full energy, and willing to invest, can all be worth $500,000 just 10
years from now. But only if they stay out of Scamway.
So now you have 3 pathways:
1. Job for life
2. Scamway
3. Job for 15 years augmented by
investment of the extra, until
your stock is growing enough in
a 401K IRA that you can live on it.
I am using route #3, and at the moment I am enjoying a totally relaxing
one year vacation paid entirely by myself at the age of 34. Because I
have some large stock & cash reserves. Despite this small and minor
victory, I'd have done much, much better if there weren't so many
ignorant people out there that spout off about untruths. I could be a
millionaire right now, instead, I'm worth less than a third of that.
But it's still a bit of water onto a parched soul, to relax for awhile.
Amway has a point, sure we'd all like to kick the job habit. Right?
So be sure that as part of the Scamway medicine, that people see the
alternative. Nobody wants to work all their life until 65 and needing a
colostomy bag. But neither do we want to be screwed over by Scamway.
I only want to work progressively at honest work, and INVEST THE EXTRA,
until I finally and authentically become WEALTHY. Wall Street is the
real ticket, and it works for countless millions in America. Read Peter
Lynch's first and original book and you'll be well on your way, either
thru stocks or mutual funds, or even by buying the stock at the company
you work with.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 25 Sep 1998 Hey, a great finding and a good lesson for those wannabe "rich and free" in five years time. I have signed up as distributor 2 weeks ago and have done nothing after that. Attended one meeting and that's it, I cant stand people who are so negative about thier job. I have tried calling a few friends (supposedly to invite and introduce them to a real world of richness) but have no desire to really sell "Amway". I have rejected Amway before but this time around I was caught offguard. Reason, theguy who sponsored me is someone who I admired for his leadership and intelligence during my first emploment. I am quite successful ( thanks to my carring boss who owns the business empire) at early 30's and driving a company given BMW ( thanks to my boss). The problem is , how should I tell my sponsor to "disregard" my contibution to his future success (they seem to be having explanation for every issue ). I have mentioned subtley, that time is not my side ( I have three kids and all below 5 years ) with a working wife ( also work closely with a boss whose owns a gig company and treating her well). Please email to my house with your suggestion Bye Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 25 Sep 1998 > The problem is , how should I tell my sponsor to "disregard" my > contibution to his future success (they seem to be having explanation for > every issue ). I have mentioned subtley, that time is not my side ( I > have three kids and all below 5 years ) with a working wife ( also work > closely with a boss whose owns a gig company and treating her well). That's an easy one. Refer him to my web site. Then, if he keeps bothering you, threaten to go to meetings and refer other people to my web site. It's unlikely that your sponsor will change his own mind, but he will sure start to leave you alone in a hurry.
Subject: Your very amusing Amway story Sat, 26 Sep 1998 Hi. I know you didn't mean for your Amway story to be amusing, but it was. I just went to my first meeting (invited by a friend, figured why not) last night, and I'm meeting with the guy that gave the meeting (my version of Phil I suppose) on Sunday. I was considering doing exactly what you did and try to play the white knight with newbies, but after reading about your experience, I can see where it would have little effect on these people. I think I'll stick to trying to save my friend, who is normally a very critical thinker. Anyhow, very funny story. I especially liked the bit where Connie detailed how she feeds her kids those drugs, and the bit where you led Ted into the trap involving the categorical imperative.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 26 Sep 1998 You know, I should have known better, after having read some stuff on the Internet, than to get into Amway. I feel sorry for the people who are continually being mislead. Your "friends" that you meet in Amway aren't really "friends" unless your definition of a "friend" is someone who manipulates and harrasses you on a continual basis. The "friends" we made while in Amway are no longer "friends" - thank goodness! Who needs friends that won't return calls and could care less if you left the face of the earth if you aren't out "recruiting" more suckers. I don't want my friendships to be based on the fact that if I'm not out making you money, you don't have time for me... I got so tired of all the "investments" in tools, seminars and such.....I feel if the opportunity were truly what they say it is you wouldn't need all that crap. Face it, most people know a great deal when they see one and aren't likely to pass it up - but if they have to be sold (and sold hard) on something as menial as soap - then there is a problem. So, if you are thinking about the Amway opportunity - think more than twice! Before your spouse gets involved, sit down and have a long, long time. Present some of the wealth of information provided on the internet. I don't think I've ever seen any one company with so much negative posted on the internet (now, if that doesn't tell you something, what will?). They will find the weak link and go for it - I was pretty much a skeptic and they knew it and so they focussed on my husband. I feel he was manipulated terribly by Amwayites. One last thought, I knew it was over for me when the team "bought" our way to 1000 points so we could walk on stage and be an incentive to those underneath us...... What a deception and I felt absolutely awful about participating in this.....but at least this experience truly woke me up to the game. Please, please, please, don't let your upline buy stuff under your ada number and then charge it on their credit card. You will be expected to sell it or absorb it in the long run.. The only people I would recommend getting into this "venture" are the ruthless, manipulative type that no one would want as a friend anyway!
Subject: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 Thanks for putting a page like this online. I already new Amway was a pyramid sceme, but it was still very interesting reading the details. I discouraged a roommate in college (chemistry major) from getting involved....he might have decided not to without me, but I helped him by telling him what Amway REALLY was... I understand Excel Marketing (long distance service) works the same way. You might be interested in the works of James Randi, if you aren't familiar with him. He is interested in preventing people from getting cheated, also.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 27 Sep 1998 Hi Russel, I had a friend whose wife wasted about 3 months on Amway. As a goodwill gesture, I bought some overpriced soap. That's really my only involvement. I'm more interested in hearing about how the computer game writing is turning out. I work at nVidia doing logic design on 3D accelerators. Only been there 6 weeks. I did 3D micro architecture at Fujitsu on the original Talisman project, then at Alliance Semiconductor architecting the 3D pipe and managing an engineering team. Too bad dropping memory prices caused the layoff of both teams at Alliance.. I was only there a year. Not enough time to rescue the lackluster product line. However, nVidia is neat. It's been a while since I've worked wih such sharp people.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Mon, 28 Sep 1998 Hello. I saw your site about amway and why you didnt succeed. I have been a member and wholesale distributor for many years. Did you really do EXACTLY what your GROWING upline told you to do... or did you TRY to build your business in your own way... using your own thinking? Im wondering why you didnt succeed. And also why you have gone through the time and effort to TRY to dissuade others from an opportunity that beyond a shadow of a doubt is ranked 22 in the top 500 Forbes top privately held companies. If you look there, there are no other companies that even allow the average individual to enter into a partnership with the servicing company to have an "opportunity" to succeed. We are all given the opportunity. Its what we do with the opportunity that determines our success. I really hope the people that sponsored you helped you to become successful. And if they didnt "based" on the message I could tell in your site, I feel it was YOUR responsibility to work the numbers and to DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to make it happen for yourself. I own a telecomunications business in the Washington DC area and the same ratios of success and failure apply to my business too. 90 % of my sales people are just barely making it. But our top 10% produces 95 % of our entire companies income. All I can say for you is that you probably never worked this business like you would have if you had invested a half a million dollars into a venture and had all your money at stake. If you really had a vested interest in getting a return on your money... You probably would have worked your Amway business harder. Anyway I hope you are successful in whatever venture you decide to continue in. Good luck to you and God Bless.
I think there is an implied request to leave names in this next letter, so I am.
Subject: Re: NORM - GRAM #64 Mon, 28 Sep 1998 (Bill, Lalia, it's for your own good. You can yet grow up and stop acting like teeny tiny little babies. That's why I am CC'ing you. I hope you can stop screwing up the kingdom of Christ (here on Earth) with this Amway garbage. I invite you to get out and fully repent of the garbage I have been listening to for several years now. Then we could be friends, but otherwise I don't want anything to do with you and your ineffective overpriced loser products and entirely false cult doctrine and philosophies. It is also exceptionally childish of you to be unable to respond to the full-scale aerial bombing that you are now fully deserving of.) Russell --------- More goodies for you. One of the interesting things is when you do full-scale confrontation with the Amway-weenies, they simply cease to talk to you. They think that THEY are getting rid of YOU because they do not want to associate with non-Amway people. But actually, WE are getting rid of THEM because we are tired of their bullcrap and it's not worth overextending yourself to be gracious and prop up a dying friendship. And anyway rather than debate it, they just slink away to the Amway play-pen where they are safe, and they cannot even say anything or hold up their end of the assault on their sacred baloney, not by e-mail or otherwise. (One small suggestion, take your mail responses, and edit down to an "condensed version" that has only the 10% of the most classic responses, selected by mouse-click.) Anyway, this is from Mark in Tacoma, Washington..... I don't think Amway is so evil as it is RUDE. I mean, to try and sell someone soap or to get them to commit to a Muliti Level Marketing scheme that you should have had the better sense to have gotten suckered into. Well, it is just rude. To try and guilt your friends into a purchase is the perfect way to alientate anyone. I mean, they KNOW you will just try to sell them more because you will run out of friends to "guilt-sell" in no time. So why even bother starting that whole bothersome trend. Just say "no". I think Cliff, though he doesn't talk about this very much, could not bring himself to press his siblings very much to getting into Amway because, well, in my family we are a bit brutal and rather open with our opinions. That might have only left his frat brothers and friends and I think they were just as brutal. Anyways, he is out of it now. (Cliff is a very crisp, srong, articulate, capable, affluent, good-looking sales oriented person. And if you dig a bit, there are a great many salespeople.... the BEST, really, who take a shot at Amway. And find it doesn't work. So then they go back to real estate, or insurance or whatever, to make real money. So the point is, in the replies, do you really believe these short people who cannot spell, computer geeks who say they are 21 with pizza-acne, are really "pulling a profit after 3 weeks", etc. etc. Just a bunch of lying derogatory emotional abusers, from the word "go", is what is Amway. Even the people who say they are making it in Amway are liars!!! Good thing that Cliff bailed). But, if you do not want Rude people in your life, then this is an execellent way of trimming the social encounter fat. Mark Tacoma, Washington This is from Norm in Seattle Last night I bought a big jug of liquid laundry detergent. I got it at Fred Meyer, and it is quite large, and it only cost $3.29 (because I had a $1 off coupon). I mean, the jug weighs over 6 pounds. Can you imagine the cost of shipping that UPS???? I can't patronize Amway even just to be polite to these people, because what cost me $3.29 at Fred Meyer would probably cost about $25 thru Amway by the time you add UPS shipping, and I'm not into paying 6 times what is fair value. The "condensed" argument is kind of funny too, do you really want to buy "condensed mouthwash"??? What if I forget??? It'll burn my tongue out. Condensed products are dangerous, the fillers are in there for a very good reason. And I like to take the lid off the bottle and just use the stuff, not retreat down to the utility sink and start pouring water into what I just paid for. I lived with this guy who was using "condensed dishwater Am-drops" and after he watered it down it did not work worth a crap (no suds) and I thought the whole thing was really stupid. Finally out of total fatigue I raised his rent about 25% just because I was tired of his involvement in something so stupid. And they think that Amway doesn't cost them!!!!! Meanwhile, I like the phrases "Scamway", "Ambot" (Amway robot), and "Amarrhoid" (a friend who is Amway which is an Amway hemorrhoid). But my best little phrase is I call it the "Waaaahway". I don't begrudge somebody who wandered into it for 3 months or 6 months, then thought twice. But the die-hard Amwayers who make it into their church, their family, etc. and stay years & years and cannot find the courage to leave, they are terribly immature. Take a look some people I know, they are a husband & wife on moderate double incomes, in good companies, with a bright future, no kids, no real debt, just apartment rent. They are young and starting out in life. And yet, they say "waaaah we can't make ends meet waaaahhh we have to work until we are 65 waaaahhh we will have to retire in a trailer waaaahhhhh we don't have a house yet waaaaaah we don't want to work waaaahhh we want vacations in Hawaii". See the point? So I call it the Waaaahway. And it's bull because these people are bringing home around $150 worth of paycheck every evening, between the two of them. They should be able to bank $15,000 per year by their job, but they say they cannot save any money whatsoever, so that's why they are in Amway. Hogwash, they've just been reduced to infantile reasoning, by this lunatic cult. So there is a terrific immaturity at work, a reversion to 5 year old behaviors, which is consistent with full-scale cult-style-brainwashing, so I don't even try to be polite about it anymore. Waaahhh!!! It's the Waaahway. (I invite them to get out, actually, by offering strong medicine.) Have a nice October!!!!
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 28 Sep 1998 I just ran accross this, I dont have the time to go through all of this but it sounds like we both had about the same experience, although I didnt join, I didnt get far enough to see if you did or not. Anyway my question is, is MLM just bad period?
Subject: Very lucid and profound response Mon, 28 Sep 1998 You wrote in response to a Japanese distributor: > I had every intention of responding to this guy, but after brief consideration I decided that our > mentalities are so far out of whack with each other that there was hardly anything we could > possibly gain by communicating. I will just say a few brief words here. People who have my > type of mentality will probably appreciate what I am about to say, while people with his > mentality will probably think I'm an idiot. But then, that's nothing new... [argument, very well written] > In the day-to-day business world this is probably one of the most difficult struggles that any company wrestles with. As a business owner (software not Amway) I have to walk a thin line between developing an outstanding product and creating revenue. Perhaps the best model for creating balance between sales and production (and reaching some kind of harmony between the two) is the Microsoft model: the production group must sell their idea to Bill (always a tough sell) before it leaves the shop for marketing. Maybe an extension of that model would be to rotate the salesforce through production shops (similar to an intern program) to help them gain an appreciation of the genius of developers. Difficult problem, very few answers.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Tue, 29 Sep 1998 Russell, I guess it is easy for everyone to speak about things they really no nothing about. You did say your self that you are not an expert and some were in this site you have stated that this is your opinion. What continues to amaze me is that self claimed informed individuals like yourself are willing to "expose" organizations like Amway and have not even experienced the business. It is true that from reading articles and information about something you can become educated. Experience can be the best teacher. What is sad is that an individual like yourself can influence so many others away from an opportunity that could make a significant difference in their life. Tell me this, why should the opinion of one negatively influence so many?
Subject: Amway Jedi Mind Trick Wed, 30 Sep 1998 Russell, Not my usual thing to write to someone I don't know but I've got to say I enjoyed reading about your experience. I call what Amway does as the Amway Jedi Mind Trick. I've found that I can shut some of the arguments down by asking to see a personal balance sheet and a P & L statement on their personal business. After all they're not the "fools" that the rest of us are and any good businessman would know where he stood especially if he's just getting started. Anyway .....no one can sit there and deny the bottom line...they are either making money or not...and none of them are.. Again thanks - enjoyed the page.
Subject: Primerica Thu, 1 Oct 1998 OK, your Amway Page was great. My father's looking at this Primerica thing, and I want to know some details. Can you point me in the right direction?
Subject: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 Hey Man, I read the stories of your girlfriend and yourself. The same lie was used on me to force me into that CULT. However, I never attended any meetings b/c I found my questions diverted and lacking in any substance. After the initiator realized I was a Christian, he preyed on that which I found obscene and grossly distorted the Gospel. I lament the fact that Amway gives Christians such a scar- just to add to the many scars it has obtained over the years. But money was never exhorted by Christ to be our salvation. Our goal in this world is to love others- not fill them with money which, no matter how much you have, never satisfies. I think you make excellent points- that Amway contains no philanthropists, but folks who want indentured servants to pad their wallets. Also, the amount of money is finite, so everyone can't succeed. I think to prosper in Amway is to close all emotional relationships with others and focus only on getting rich. As anyone knows, a focus on only one thing is wrong b/c our lives involve complex, multi-facetted experiences and relationships. A good "scheme", as opposed to Amway, would be one that focuses on getting as many people as one can involved in loving and serving eachother. Now that's something that will benefit humanity. And that is what Christ has offered. I think your website does a great service. God blesss you,
Subject: anti amway Fri, 2 Oct 1998 Russell, just a note of support of your web page about the truths about the Amway business and its distributors. The more I read online about the abuses, the more I appreciate people like you who take the time to share their stories. The AMO's and the pro Amway distributors who support the deceptions, misrepresentations, fraud, etc., one day will see the tremendous harm they are doing to Amway. Amway will have to admit the wrongdoing. There are too many people disgusted with the tactics used to con people into believing the Financial Freedom and Inheritable Income is real. Freedom is surely not for Diamonds in Amway. What Diamond Direct Distributor do you know of is FREE?! I didn't see one while I was a distributor for over ten years.
Remainder of letter left out by request
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 4 Oct 1998 I am at present being gently headhunted by a colleague. My ego is being caressed and I find it easy to believe in my ability to flog just about anything. I am however sceptical and have experience of selling double glazing, an experience that left me feeling cold and predatory. some products can be easily sold with a clear conscience surely soap must be one of them? I am reluctant to join any American cheerleading sessions being a stiff upper Brit it goes against my nature. please impart upon me some wisdom of experience, is it possible to earn with this or am I destined to become another lamb to the mint sauce.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Mon, 5 Oct 1998 Russell... I was reading through your latest mass of posted reader responses when I came across the news that you had just (beginning of July) moved to Ft. Worth (or, as we here in Houston refer to it, Ft. Worthless!). In some of your other responses to readers, you'd said something about an upcoming move, but I didn't know any of the particulars. Better late than never: Welcome to Texas!! As I've mentioned to you before, I wrote to Sid Schwartz's site once and I'm posted on page 46 or 47. I tell of how my cousin and his fiancee/later wife briefly got me involved in Amway in 1991, but I "succeeded" by quickly wising up. I conclude that part of the story simply by saying that I have no idea whether they're still involved or not. Well, I've since learned that they ARE. Mom tells me they're real movers 'n' shakers now, making tons o' scratch. My response: Yeah, right! First of all, this is the same guy who matter-of-factly told me that they didn't know how to budget. He was referring to monthly household expenses, but it stands to reason that if simple Home Ec (as it used to be called!) evades you, then drawing up a coherent business plan complete with a balance sheet, a profit-'n'-loss statement, etc., would be like reading Russian. It would most likely be relegated (with a snort) to the realm of "detailitis." (I'd LOVE to see their Schedule C from their tax return.) Second, remember all the people who have written to you, to Sid, and to other sites telling of how upline are instructed (by THEIR upline, of course) to pretend, for the motivational sake of their downline, to be a lot more successful than they really are? "Fake it till you make it," they're told in all seriousness, without a trace of irony. The good news is, I haven't heard from him in ages. Whenever we happen to run into each other again, if he broaches The Subject, I'll tell him of my full-time job, my part-time job (both of which I enjoy), the hundreds of $$$ I make every month as a stringer for a news agency (20 minutes of "work" a day, tops; easiest money IMAGINABLE!), the freelance tutoring I do, and the book I just wrote... and sold. Life without Amway/MLM's is a quest for success on one's OWN terms, using one's OWN talents to pursue one's OWN dream(s). But of course, in telling you that, Russell, I know I'm preaching to the choir. Welcome again to Texas, a nation within a nation (Dixie) within a nation (the USA). Always room here for more honest folk like you and Ginny.
Subject: Amways and Pyramids
Mon, 05 Oct 98
Russ,
Excellent website on Amway, but I'm not sure I would be so quick
to bypass the pyramid or Ponzi scheme comparison. My wife and I were
recently accosted by an acquaintence that turned out to be an Amway
Distributor. During our first encounter I was struck by how similar
the pyramid organization was to the Amway cumulative rebate system.
You are correct to point out that the Amway system is not illegal,
however I believe that this is only the case because they "launder"
the money through the product delivery part of the business. If you
provide a product or service to the lowest level of the pyramid
(regardless of quality) then the legality is upheld, and the top level
of the pyramid heads to the bank laughing all the way.
I have two observations that you might consider mentioning on your web site:
1) Has anyone ever seen an advertisement for Amway looking to hire
any chemists? My wife and I receive the weekly magazine Chemical &
Engineering News. In the back you will find all the national ads for
industrial companies seeking engineers and chemists for soap and food
processing. In the past 10 years we can't recollect ever seeing an
Amway ad. That tells me that the Amway products are not specially
formulated to be better than any other products on the market. In
fact that only leaves the Amway buyers the option of buying the
generic products that normally get relabeled to be grocery store or
third party labels. That evidence would seem to support the Consumer
Reports results showing that the Amway products are second rate, or
worse, compared with the usual brand labels offered by companies such
as Proctor & Gamble, National Starch, etc.
2) My Brother-In-Law used to be the company rep for a large
Automotive Products manufacturer. When the buyers from Walmart came
calling to buy a hundred tractor trailer loads of oil filters guess
who bowed and scraped to whom? Amway is a small fraction of the size
of Walmart (1/60th?), so who really thinks the Amway buyers get the
best prices from the manufacturers? The economic term is "economies
of scale" and Amway misses the scale by almost two decimal points.
Thanks again for the revealing look at Amway.
Subject: Scamway International.......... Mon, 05 Oct 1998 Howdy from the nether regions!! I have to admit I really enjoyed your sites on Amway! Both of you have the ability to hold the attention of the reader and be humorous as well. In response to the question you are asking yourself....YES, I am presently an Amboy....I have found it to be an untapped resource for my real business, which is owning a business that repairs expensive cars. In addition, I have another service that caters to some of the more affluent distributors with their other sources of income. So you can see that the yearly dues are a small price to pay to pry a small portion (5%, I estimate) of their amassed wealth away from them! (With tongue in cheek......or maybe it's a tight eyelid?) I even buy 'token' products from time to time....... All seriousness aside....wait, I have that wrong....all deliriousness (or is it conciousness?) aside....dang....ah, what the heck, it's close enough....I have a couple of Amstories in my past. Yes, I did work the system hard for several years, but then realized I was absolutely terrified of success..... I remember my first major function, I put the unslept in room on the ballooncard (or is that buffoon??), but didn't have enough left for gas money, so promptly sold the tires off our (and the bank's) new car, bought some more tires on credit, and voila....thanks to FoMoCo, Lester Schwab, and the local bank miraculously had the fuel money! Of course I spent the next couple of years trying to make a dent in the creditcard interest. Many more such escapades followed, but alas, no other soul shall hear the stories from the stage, because I made a startling discovery. I realized that the harder I work the luckier I get. Actually, I think I already knew this, but had forgotten for awhile. I had an epiphany....if I just work this hard at something that I"m actually good at, I might just have a shot at that "good life" I keep hearing about. Guess what? It wasn't my dream to spend time with these robots on the beaches of the world. I didn't see the purpose. I had told my upline that my first expenditure upon "making it" was to give a sizeable donation to a prominent children's charity. This was met with some sarcasm about three uplines up. It seemed ironic to me that materialism had reared it's ugly head in an organization of such LOVE....(yuck, did I just step in something? Doesn't SMELL like love!) And that was the beginning of the end. I suppose that you should know a couple of things about me. I am a people person, heavily involved in many volunteer organizations, and am relied on at the church of my choice. And, oh yeah, almost forgot. I am a computer illiterate. I only know how to turn it on and I run a mean mouse.....thanks to the power company and whoever runs Microsoft these days..... As I sit here and reread this quite lengthy piece and listen to Styx hammering on about Mr. Roboto..... Maybe some day, I'll actually learn how to use this machine, instead of just play with it. But until then and even for a while after, may all your pursuits be happy......
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Mon, 05 Oct 1998 Hello Guys! I just passed on to your page while searching on the Excite search engine to find out if Amway was public. I was on MSN Investor and could not find info on them being public except for their Asian counterparts. What an experience you went through! I sincerely admire your persistence and willingness to sacrifice for what was eventually supposed to be for your family. I have had similar experiences like that and choose to live and learn... and live again. You see the company I believe in ...and still do (to a certain point) has sold out to Pre-Paid Legal! I was researching MLM stocks... seems like maybe investing in their stock may prove to be more profitable? What is your opinion on this? Thanks for your time! Subject: Re: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Wed, 07 Oct 1998 > Hello Guys! > > I just passed on to your page while searching on the Excite search > engine to find out if Amway was public. I was on MSN Investor and > could not find info on them being public except for their Asian > counterparts. As you have discovered, Amway Japan and Amway China are publicly traded companies, but no western Amway branch is. > I have had similar experiences like that and choose to live and > learn... and live again. You see the company I believe in ...and > still do (to a certain point) has sold out to Pre-Paid Legal! I was > researching MLM stocks... seems like maybe investing in their stock > may prove to be more profitable? What is your opinion on this? No offense, but I think it's a terrible idea. The Asian Amway stocks have plummeted big time since their initial offering, due in large part to China's recent ban on direct marketing. Generally speaking, I think MLM's make a lousy investment. Since Amway America is not publicly traded it is not required to release area-specific earnings statements, but common knowledge has it that recent growth has been very poor in America and almost all growth has happened abroad. Last year the Amway Corporation (worldwide) reported earnings around 3%. Given that the return of your average stock is 11%, I would say you should look for other investment ideas.
Subject: your amway page... Tue, 6 Oct 1998 The main reason I'm writing is to let you know that your link to the ***** page hasn't worked for weeks (at least it hasn't worked for me). Also, I wanted to let you know that I really like your web page, I have a brother who has been in Amway for 7 or 8 years, he hasn't made it to diamond yet but I'm sure it's right around the corner, if you know what I mean. I really enjoy reading all the mail, it's interesting to see that a lot of people are going through the same thing as my family.
Subject: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 Hi!! Just wanted to thank you for saving me lots of grief. I have just read your stuff on the Internet about Amway and I am very glad I did. You had a very bad experience and I'm sorry for that. I am equally sorry that many other folks have also had the same unfortunate experience. Yes, I was considering becoming an Amway distributor, but no way now!!! Right along, while people have been explaining the whole business to me, something didn't sound right. You know when you get that "gut" feeling and can't really explain why. Again, thank you, and I hope we can correspond. Have a great day.
Subject: AMWAY EXPOSED! - THANK YOU!!!!! Tue, 06 Oct 1998 Russel, I really enjoyed reading from your website! I showed it to a couple of family members that were falling deep into the program of AMWAY indoctrination , and It helped me finally get through to them and make them see that they were falling into a dead end MLM scheme that had no redeeming value, and threatened to ruin all that they have worked for over the years. In the process, you may have saved our family a lot of strife and also saved the nearly 30-year old family business that depends on our collective attention and dedication. I'm VERY pleased to see that the deceptions and falsehoods used by AMWAY to draw in victims is being exposed on the net by THINKING PEOPLE like you! Thank you!
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Tue, 06 Oct 1998 Dear Ginny, I can understand why you would want to blame Amway for your problem. I just think that your problems were not caused by Amway, but by your own immaturities. Amway seems an easy thing to blame when you were the one making the bad decisions. I myself would not leave my son at that young age, yet I am an Amway distributor. I recently went to a weekend function called F.E.D. I took my son with along with his grandparents. If they could not come, I would have never gone. I choose to make my own decisions within this business. It also sounds like you had a couple of bad apples as distributors, and in any business you must select carefully the character of the people you get involved with. My upline would never encourage me to go beyond my financial means, nor would they ask me to go against my better judgement. They want me to make choices according to my situation. We put God first and our family second. We are becoming very successful in a short amount of time. It is still true that no other business can provide the financial freedom that this can. Of course, we are not in Amway directly. They are our servicing corporation, but I don't mind saying I'm an Amway distributor. In fact my sponsors incourage it. Subject: amway Wed, 07 Oct 1998 Dear *****, You are correct, I did make some bad decisions and I was immature. I don't have an argument with you there, but you are forgetting that my upline was encouraging those bad decisions and using my desire to succeed for their own benefit. I thought one was supposed to edify their upline and follow the system...and this is what was constantly being crammed down my impressionable young throat. Tell me the people in Amway don't prey on each other and I'll tell you to look a little bit deeper. I don't think this is the case of a couple of bad distributors, or "bad apples" as you say. If your upline didn't push you in any way to go against your better judgement or go beyond your financial means, then you are very unique. I think the overwhelming numbers of letters on Russell's mail page speak a different tune and expose the normal going ons of Amway distributors everywhere. These letters give a great insight into how destructive Amway truly is. I have not met any Amway distributor who is different from any of the rest, and I personally don't think you are any different either. To me they all go through the same phases...fanaticism being one. You may not be as fanatical as some of the others, but you are in Amway and you are defending it without even realizing that there are many aspects of it that reek of cultism. Look at how the functions are tying in a religious theme...along with the "follow the system" theme. If this isn't a way to hook people further, and doesn't scream cult, then I don't know what does. You yourself seem pretty hooked on religion by saying you put God before your family. Whats up with that, lady? How does one go about doing that really? That is one of the most cliched religious statements I have heard, and I think it is utterly ridiculous. Come on, you have a son. You can't sit there and tell me honestly that you would put God before your son. your son is your flesh and blood...tangible and real. You can't say the same thing about God...intangible, questionably real. How can you honestly love something you can't even prove is real, and put it before your family? I question that philosophy, and I also question YOUR ability to think for YOURSELF. When asked who do you love more? You might say flippantly God...but really in your heart I bet the answer would be different. I think the images of your son and other loved ones are going to flash in your mind first, and if they don't then I am sorry for you. As far as your statement about no other business being able to offer the financial freedom that Amway can...oh come now that is laughable! Talk about cliched statements! I'm howling over here...that sounds like a typical statement that comes out of 99% of the Amway distributor's mouths...and you think you are different and above it all. Yeah whatever! Ginny Griffin
Subject: amway Wed, 7 Oct 1998 Dear Russell, I am a colombian lawyer and i am very interested in know if amway has been condemnened bay any court in the USA. As I know there is an important precedent and I would like to know if you have this important information. I am triying to sue them in colombia becauses they are cheating the people with te MLM. Thanks an remain
Subject: amway comments
Wed, 07 Oct 1998
dear Mr. Glasser,
I just came apon your page about the Amway Corporation. I don't
think you have any cule about Away.
Did you know away Had the largest growth rate out of any corp. in
the US in 1998 over 30%. That is un heard of.
Did you know Amway produces the most millionnaires out of any
company in the world.
Did you know Amway is debt free and is not on the stock market so
what ever is going on in Asia dosen't effect us. We have over 8000
products to choice from it not just soap any more.
Did you know just about every fortune 500 company in the US wait
in line to network with amway but amway turns alot of them away because
they don't the standards.
I THINK YOU SHOULD GO DOWN TO YOUR LOCAL BOOKSTORE OR
LIBARY(because $4 .00 an hr job dosen't pay you enough) and pick up the
book "A Enterprising LIfe". You will under stand more about Amway.
Also did you know that there over 14 different organizations that
use the Amway Corp. as a manufacturer. IF you have never heard of World
Wide Dream builders you should check it out as well, because WWDB only
uses Amway as a manufacturer, YOUR NOT IN AMWAY, YOU OWN YOUR own
BUSSINESS YOU JUST USE AWMWAY AS A MANUFACTURER, YOUR NEED TO
UNDERSTAND THAT BEFORE YOU GO RUNNING YOUR MOUTH ABOUT SOME THING YOU
DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.
Hmmm... he must have heard about my salary cut before I did. I've never made $4.00 an hour in my life, including my high school jobs.
Subject: Just read your Amway report... Thu, 08 Oct 1998 Hello. I just read your Amway report (excellently written, BTW). Thank you for spreading the word on the Evil Empire aka Amway. Here is my brief Amway experience: About a month ago, a friend of mine calls me out of the blue saying that I HAVE to come to her house that night . Since the buses don't work at that time and my Dad can't give me a lift (I'm a university student BTW), I say I can't. I also ask her why but she refuses to answer only saying that it involves, "making LOTS and LOTS of money!". Well, don't you know it but one of her "friends" is able to give me a lift! A thirty-ish woman picks me up and drives me to the meeting. She also refuses to give the purpose of this meeting. So far, I'm intrigued by what will happen. Anyways, throughout the twenty minute drive, she asks me the following questions: - what are you studying at university? - do you work? - what do your parents do? - where do you see yourself? blah blah blah When I tell her I am studying anthropology, she replies that it's a great field of study, but there is no money in it (everything is about money to them). After we pass a church, she asks me what religion I believe in. When I say I'm an atheist, she replies, "No you're not -- you're just not enlightened yet." That was the first hint that this was something wrong. Anyways, at the meeting, it is no other than the crime reporter for one of the local news channels (since I live in Toronto, this guy's a minor celebrity). He gives his spiel for over an hour, barely mentioning Amway, the costs involved, blah blah blah. I admit I am interested but little things keep popping up. For example: - when I asked if there was any possibility of losing money, they (three Amway "people") said no and that I shouldn't think negatively (huh?) - they had an answer for every single question I had (the sign that something's wrong) - that "You're not enlightened" thing really stuck in my mind - they kept pressuring me to go to these other meetings Anyways, long story short (oops, I guess it's too late for that), my "friend" who called me has been sucked in, although I (and two other friends who were there) did not sign up (thank God). It was after this that I looked up "Amway" on the net (yikes!) Once again, thanks again for spreading the word.
Subject: Loved your page Fri, 9 Oct 1998 Hi Russell -- I read every word and thought "This boy should be published!" What a ride, worth the cost of the ticket definitely! I found your page by searching for someone who I could buy Amway laundry detergent from (I'm down to my last scoop) and had some extra time. I think I was drawn to it (and related to it) because I made the mistake of getting in to Mary Kay a few years ago. While my experience wasn't as sinister -- it was just as deceptive and your words finally expressed my thoughts and emotions about these kind of organizations. Russell, we are FREE! Ain't it great? Take care....
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 10 Oct 1998 I am distressed that an individual could be so negatively motivated to create and maintain such trash - and seemingly get a 'kick' out of it. Much of the information you have detailed seems only to appeal to those people that have had bad experiences with the Amway opportunity or the distributors that they have had contact with. I would like to point out that in my experience of life, I have come across many many people 'outside' of the Amway business that I have disliked or had ill feeling for. On many occasions I have walked out of a shop because I did not like the attitude of the shop assistant or I felt the service was poor. It was my choice to walk into the shop, and certainly my choice to walk out. However I didn't at the time and I certainly don't now go around 'praising' my actions or seeking support from others. Your column's remind me of a recently failed Australian Politician (Pauline Hanson), who's views were branded negative, racist and slanderous - but appealed to the negative and always 'ill-informed' opinions of people who felt they had been hard done by or had been 'had' by some scheme. The Amway opportunity is very unique in that it is provides a vehicle for individuals to develop a long lasting income (if income is the motivating force behind their efforts). Certainly everyone must find it appealing that the work (showing the business plan) today is still going to return an income in 10,20 and 50 years time. I am not sure about you but I can honestly say that the hours work that I did for my 'brand x employer' back on July 5th, 1995 has not continued to supply me with an income when showing the business plan to the secretary of my dentist at 7.30 pm that same night has continued to provide. I was first introduced to Amway through a very dear friend just over 5 years ago. I have not actively built a business but have sponsored a small group of people. My sponsor decided not to renew after the 2nd year of my involvement, but I now have a wonderful teacher in her upline. I would like to point out that I am still very close to that friend who introduced me and I think I will be forever grateful to her for the opportunity. While I am not actively building a network, I still attend all meetings that I can possibly get to. I find the teachings that are adapted by the support organisation are fantastic and come at a fraction of the cost of those 'motivational seminars' that I am required to attend as part of my 'brand x' job. I am not a christian, and do not find the seminars a problem because they are built on christian fundamentals. How can this business be so bad if the business is built around christian values. Your arguments are shallow, your information is biased and you have failed to back up your claims that the prices are more expensive. I would like to point out that it is impossible for the market to be saturated because of the many hundreds and possibly thousands of people like you who have looked at this opportunity and have walked away from it. How about printing off the columns that appear on your web site, place them in a box and bury it somewhere for the next 15 years. I wonder what your thoughts will be in the year 2013 when you live in a world where supermarkets are no longer, where we purchase through a 'virtual shopping centre'. Lets all hope we are not asking ourselves why we didn't take the advise and use the opportunity when we first had it.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sat, 10 Oct 1998
hello, I just checked your page to find out some info on Amway, because
my girlfriend spent 2.5 hours listening to a neighbour giving her the
same blah-blah that you mentioned!
I'm from England, & I was a bit wary of pyramidal schemes, in the
UK we're alerted to their dangers. When I arrived here (French West
Indies) 5 years ago, I saw an incredible amount of people
getting sucked into this stuff, (especially ominously, many Jehovah's
Witnesses). It seems that the Amway tentacles are spreading into the
more remote places, where people aren't as informed. Thank God for the
Net! Because I'm a foreigner here, the Amway types use their phoney
interest in
me as a pretext to make contact with me.They even try to make me give
English classes as though I was distributing a product!
My first girlfriend (of 7 years) didn't listen to me & joined not
only a pyramidal thing, but also the JWs! My second girlfiend saw your
page & was very spooked by the similarities with the experience she just
had.
Maybe if I was on the Net sooner, I'd still be with the first
girlfriend!!
Keep up the good work. Peace.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 10 Oct 1998 Great work ! Me , I was hounded by three Amway vampires , The first when I was in SanFrancisco , the next was a guy from Malaysia (who tried to get me by email! No personal contact there!) , the third were a couple I ran into in a bookshop in Canada. What amazes me is the wide reach that these assholes have got! The next asshole who comes along saying "Are you interested in being your own boss and attain your financial dreams?" is going to wish he hadn't!
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Mon, 12 Oct 1998 I have never read a more ridiculous story. How can you blame an organization for your own stupidity? You have no one but yourself to blame for the way you drove. No one forced you to do anything. You control your own life. Grow up and start taking responsibility for your own actions. This is part of the problem with America today. Society blames everyone else for their own problems and failures. If you risk your life or fail to succeed at something, it is your own fault. No one controls your destiny but yourself. If you let someone else take control, that is your choosing, and is your decision. Once again, you chose your destiny.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 12 Oct 1998 Russell, I am sorry that you had such a bad experiance with Amway, I also about five years ago had the same type of expericance. But I took my time and researched the company and the different "groups" and I have found a group that is willing to let you, go the way you need to. If you cant afford to oh well maybe you can borrow a tape from such and such, and so on I was signed up before I could even pay, so I think you experience is bad but I also think that their is a positive side of Amyway. You just have to find it, just like anything you do in life you get what you put into it.
Subject: your amway experience Tue, 13 Oct 1998 I just got done reading your experience with Scamway (ooops) Amway, and I just wanted to say congratulations for having the courage to post it on the internet. I myself was in "The Business" for over 2 years of my life, and I was very unhappy with it. I am still to this day, very unhappy with how Amway brainwashes folks into believing some BS story on how to be rich beyond belief in 2-5 years. I have started an Anti-Amway campaign, and I have vowed that I will never relinquish my quest until I take my last breath of life. I hate Amway and everything it stands for. Don't you ever back down on how you feel about Amway. Because in the end, good will prevail over evil. God Bless
Subject: Finished your amway story Tue, 13 Oct 1998 I have a question for anyone who was SAVED from Amway? What are you doing with your lives? What is your answer to the solution? I mean have you checked the economy lately? It is said that Social Security will be either eliminated or curtailed sharply. I have been looking at want ads, reading the newspapers; especially the world news and the old way of doing business is going the way of the dinosaurs. There's a prediction that in fifty years there will be no such thing as job (as we know it). The industries that are the fastest growing are not the best paying (ie retail, hotels, temporary etc.) Fortune 500 companies are laying off highly educated people by the thousands. Anyone out there making 100K a year? How many hours are you working a week? How much vacation time a year do you get and are you able to take it when you want? Do you have a family? If so how much quantity and quality time do you get to spend with them? To those people who say they don't need money....Where are you living? I live in NYC and you need money for rent, food, transportation to a job. I would like to have a substantial amount of money to tithe and give away even more than what I am doing now? Also I am one of those baby boomers who has a mother and grandparents to help support. I don't have a family yet but would like one. I also want the opportunity to spend more time with my family without having to live in a box under a bridge somewhere. Those of you with a job, how many of you have to be there at 9am (or before) and can't leave before 5pm (or later)? Do you have a dress code? Ladies, how many of you had to put up with unprofessional behavior from your male coworkers. If you have children - who is watching your children and where are they while you are at work? I have been approached by Amway and other multilevel representatives and they brought up a lot of these questions. I even went to some meetings and what was said in the meetings was what I would read in my bible or other books on success. I believe that you can make money doing anything, if you follow the universal laws of success. For all of those people who had a bad Amway experience, I am sorry that this was not for you. I do take offense at you trashing people who decided to take responsibility and change their lives using multilevel marketing. Isn't it strange that we have these jobs and we can either be fired when the company needs to pay out bigger dividends or not offer health benefits, time off to take care of ourselves and our families and no one has nothing to say in protest. We jump up in down and say that Amway, Mary Kay, Shakelee are pyramids that are out to take advantage of us. Yet not one word is shouted in protest that our jobs, the churches where we worship are some of the biggest pyramids around and definitely are taking advantage of us mentally, physically,spiritually and financially. Yes, multilevel may not be the answer, but for those who have been saved what is the answer besides 40 years working for a miniscule pension plan, giving up your family/personal time and taking a lot of crap from bosses you would not give the time of day to.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 14 Oct 1998 how many distributors did you say ? mmmm.sounds interesting how do i sign up
Subject: Your Amway page...
Tue, 13 Oct 1998
Heaven forbid anyone reads and believes anything that you biasedly
contort as "truth"..Your self-supposed "knowledge" is interesting, as it has
come from a "QUITER!" I guess when you go to bed you pat yourself on the
back and say today I saved everyone from Amway. The real truth is that the
source of all your intellect and self-subscribed words of wisdom is that you
are a jealous bastard who probably had his feelings hurt and therefore is
now out to exact his revenge on the evil menace. There are people out there
who also mock Christians, Morality, and America, and who spend there time
trying to get others to do the same. My thought is it seems that you get
your jollies from slamming on this Free Enterprise system. maybe you would
prefer it if Amway weren't around.Then perhaps you could move on to slamming
on something else that is good and right. You are a looser and a quiter,
and if people met you they would probably laugh out loud at the thought that
you could have been the source of this site. I wonder how many people out
there will be influenced by your bias. It is a shame that people go to the
sick to find out about sickness and all the damage it has done and sit and
waller in it until they become sick themselves. I would hope that people
would be open- minded, rather than look to you as "smart" and "in the know",
to which sir I say, you certainly are not! You are just a creep with a
chip.
Crunch, crunch, crunch. (I eat my Dorito.)
...and now I'm just a creep.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 14 Oct 1998 Dear Russell, It is unfortunate that you are so stupid. It is apparent that you have never achieved anything beyond your existence. You probably voted for Clinton. I am an attorney who has analyzed the Amway business over the past five (5) years without finding anything other than the same challenges anyone faces when building a business. I would like to know if you have ever started your own business. No statue was ever erected to the critic, only the achiever. Best of luck in your small, confused world.
Subject: AMWAY Thu, 15 Oct 1998 Thanks so much for your time and site. You have helped avert a personal disaster. Thanks
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Mon, 19 Oct 1998 I have never been in amway and never will be [OBNOXIOUS SELF-PROMOTION DELETED]
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 19 Oct 1998 Great page! I did a year long stint in the Amway mind washing corps and frankly I found the whole experience rather disturbing. I never had a downline because I couldn't bring myself to deceive people into joining, and watching the bizare antics of our upline "gods" really turned my stomach. Anyways, keep up the great work and hopefully more people will be able to make an informed decision when confronted by the Amway minions.
Subject: One more argument Thu, 22 Oct 1998 I would be interested to read your evaluation of this argument regarding the moral validity of the Amway concept vis a vis traditional corporate hierarchical structure: Analogize the Amway organization to a conventional corporate hierarchy. In the conventional structure, the man at the bottom is an employee who trades the prospect of unlimited future profit for the certainty of a wage. The risk of nonprofitability is borne by the boss or ther shareholders. In the Amway structure, the folks at the entry level bear the risk of nonprofitability by receiving virtually no money until their organization generates sufficient revenue to justify the creation of profit. What is wrong with that?
Subject: God sent.... Thu, 22 Oct 1998 Thank you for your story about your experince. Once I was comming back from atlantic city and we stop at a rest stop along the way. There was this guy who say hello to me and asked where am i from, I said Staten Island. He said to me that he was looking to expand his distribution business in the staten island are and he was looking for people. I said I may be interested and I gave him my phone number. He call me and came to my house and gave me the "talk" but since I didn't know anything about Amway I said to him that I would get back to him. Now that I know, I am waiting for him to call me and I will tell him that I am not interested. Thanks again.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 22 Oct 1998
Hello,
I happened on this page upon research initiated by experiencing my
own Amway nightmare last night. An old coworker invited me over to her
house last night. I had given her a call just to catch up and thought
nothing of it. She told me to bring my girlfriend, and since I had no
reason to suspect anything brought her too. Well to make a long story
short, after some nice chatting, her husband came down and immediately
launched into a hour and a half long spiel about Amway. The funny thing is,
what he was saying was so transparent. Every technique he was using, was
obvious. He first tried to provoke fear into us. Oh! You want to go to law
school..well lawyers may make money but what about time? And on and on.
Then I remembered the time, my coworker friend had gave me a tape with some
bland title that pretty much said and even sounded the same. I'd heard of
Amway before, and with negative connotations, but it was a revelation to
experience it. I must say it was one of most uncomfortable situations I've
been put it in a long time.
In closing, I'd like to commend you for your efforts in spreading
the word on this institution. After much thought, Amway isn't about making
money or building relationships. It merely preys upon the hopes and fears
of those who fall under its spell. That is its greatest evil. To take the
nobility inherent in all of us to seek self improvement and sell it back to
us in the form of greed, fear, god, and false promises. But yet I can't
bring myself to challenge my coworker and her husband. What little hopes
and dreams of their lives they've invested in this disgusting enterprise and
I can't bring myself to crush it.
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