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Subject: I CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR DISTASTE FOR AMWAY Thu, 31 Dec 1998 HOWEVER I THINK YOUR WRONG ABOUT NETWORKING..... THE PROCESS IS CALLED DUPLICATION...DO YOU THINK MCDONALDS CORP HAS SOLD 15000000000000000000000 HAMBURGERS AT JUST ONE GREASE PIT? AND ONE MORE THING..EVERYTHING IS A PYRAMID! DONT KNOCK THE FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM THAT IS WHAT MADE AMERICA GREAT...SURE AMWAY HAS ITS FAULTS... I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE HAVING BEEN INVOLVED A FEW TIMES. I FIGURED OUT THAT MOST OF THE MONEY MADE WAS FROM TAPES BOOKS AND FUNCTIONS.. IT IS A SCAM FOR SURE......HAPPY NEW YEAR..
Subject: Finished your Amway!!story... Thu, 31 Dec 1998 Thank you for your informative web site. My father just talked my wife and I into getting into Amway, but after reading this and other pages, along with the business review that Amway puts out, we asked him for our money back. Luckily he is an upright man and let us return our kit. Something you might want to add to your page is the facts that are presented to every new possible recruit. In the Amway Business Review there are given some statistics that by law they must tell you. Talk about your lousy odds. First off I was shown a chart and was told, "these are conservative estimates of personal consumption." Right below the chart however, is a statement that says only one 1 out of 40 distributors reach this amount. It also says that 2% reach the direct level and 1.8% of those achieve the bonuses that they describe. That means I have a 2.5% chance of attaining their goals, a 2% chance of going direct after attaining those goals, and a 1.8% of making the bonuses after that. 2.5% of 2% of 1.8% is approximately 1 in a million chance of making $45,000 a year in bonuses (my math may be wrong, but not by much). Why even give the bonuses, then? I hope that more people research all of the facts before making an investment. As a supplemental income Amway may be a possibility for some, but to portray dreams of financial freedom using only the Amway method (not selling training material) is just impractical. Please feel free to reply to this message. I will be graduating college in a couple years and am looking forward to joining the technical workforce as a programmer myself. I have a wife that I love, a beautiful home, and happiness. I am not a loser.
Subject: amway biz Sat, 2 Jan 1999 hello...my name is sheila im from pennsylvania...who is in the process of getting OUT of the amway biz...i read some of your experience and agreed wholeheartedly...this guy approached my husband and my husband niavely insisted i try it....not wanting to upset him i did....about 6 months ago.... realized u had to shell out a ton of cash to even make a buck and slowly my husband realized my suspiciousness for getting "IN"...so as a matter of fact my amway upline guy...called me yesterday to see if he could drop off some "shoppng bag" full of stuff fro me to let people borrow for a couple of days to see if can "rope" them in too...lol....but since i felt uncomfortable talking to him i asked to speak to his wife and told her i wanted "OUT" so she said her husand would come monday to pick up my kit remains to see if i "qualify for my refund" anyway...keep up the good work...these people are swarming by the minute to try and get their mits in people's pockets and we all need to be aware of this...thanks....hope the computer programming is going well for u ...im a bartender/waitress at chi-chi's restaurant.....happy new year....sincerrely *****
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 02 Jan 1999 About 20 years ago during a period of unemployment I met up with a very aggressive Amway distributor. One talk convinced me I was not interested, but his persistance was uncannily like what you describe. About 3 years ago a good friend of mine went into Amway and claims to have done well, earning enough to replace his wife's income from her job. He has never used the aggressive tactics on me thank goodness, because I value his friendship. Several things in your account square with my sketchy information on his operation. In addition to all that my late brother was into it for awhile, and a "true believer", almost treating it like a religion. I tapped into this site to see if they list Amway reps in my area and found you. Now I think I'll use some other products and forget Amway. (I used to buy it from a friend in St. Louis.) Thanks for your interesting presentation,
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sat, 02 Jan 1999 Hi!!! New to this computer e-mail stuff and just found this "page" but wanted to let you know that by the time you or anyone else has read this I'll have "OFFED myself with no help from Dr. Kavorkian-------shit---- I geuss there is nothing out there AT ALL --- AMWAY included, or working 60 hrs. a week, wasting time on this computer, (COMPUTER TURD) hashing out pros-and-cons of a business such as AMWAY on "THE NET"----This is like CBer's "squashing " each other over the "air waves" for supremacy ( that does a bunch to promote illeteracy)---(You might be a redneck if---) Well---My advice if you're a "WINNER or LOSER" --- stop responding to this "PAGE E-MAIL "or whatever it is and give up!!! On second thought---if you're involved in "AMWAY" maybe you should just "keep on keeping on"---if not involved ----maybe eat s---- and die!! My mistake!!!!! Now back to "OFFING MYSELF"-----BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!
Amway people have a very disturbing sense of humor.
By the way, is it difficult to pull a trigger and type the word "BOOM" at the same time?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 4 Jan 1999 Hi, We are from manchester, NH and we were in amway in 1997. Just 4 months and we spent alot of money and time. We bought the package and supplies. We are no longer in amway but your story relates so well to the people in that organization. As I read your letter It brought to mind the many people i met that had no interest in anyone but finding people and making money. Its so scary!!!! I can't imagine how anyone can get roped into the amway business and actually believing they can become rich. Some of the people being approached by these idiots in suits are people facing hard fincancial times. The real reason why they want you to buy supplies is so that the upline can make money. There is so much behind amway that you would count yourself lucky not to have joined. I will continue reading and researching amway.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 6 Jan 1999 I just returned from a "job interview" with a company that advertised in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette as a "new sales/marketing company in need of a few good people." When I phoned to question the exact type of business the company was into, I received a very vague response but an immediate request from "Beth" to come to the office for an interview. I had never heard of Equinox or their sponsored company "Paramount of Pittsburgh." As a 39 y.o. nurse with lots of people experience, I immediately knew that the "upline" managers were far too complimentary and friendly for my taste. Immediately, I felt as though I was being manipulated and patronized, and I hate that! The speaker there, "Ricardo", who's a director or something like that, was a good speaker but it was easy to see the likeness this company had to Amway. All I needed to see was the soap powder and vitamins to know that this "job" was not for me. Anyway, I agreed to come to another meeting with them tomorrow night to talk with someone big in the company,but thanks to you and your informative article I'm not going to waste my time. Also, I really didn't know much about Amway or MLM but I was always turned-off by it because I "ve learned that if something is that easy or that available it can't be good. And while there today several times the word "cult" came into my mind. Thank you again. Information, especially information that's entertaining, is the real beauty of internet access.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 7 Jan 1999
Hey,
Glad to see that I'm not the only one who feels the same way. This Amway
thing is going around the office like wild fire, and had I known what was
up, I wouldn't have gone to that first "meeting" and received the tapes (and
a book). Your story has just confirmed what I've always thought about Amway,
they seem to pull in the ones that are down on their luck, just like any
other cult.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 9 Jan 1999 Hi my brother is heavily involved with Amway and is a distributer. He has recently rung me up to be one too. Can you send him a scary message?? ***@***.*** Im realy scared for him. His mission is certainly impossible. Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Sunday, 10 January 1999 23:37 I can't send him a scary message since he doesn't know me and my opinion wouldn't mean anything. It might mean more if you told him about these web pages you found. Check out my Amway link page for more good material. Subject: Re: Your Amway page... Sun, 10 Jan 1999 Hi Russell, Thanks for your help. I have done just that.
Subject: Amway Hell Fri, 8 Jan 1999 Dear friend, Awesome site. I stayed up until 3:30 in the morning last night reading your saga, and the story of your girlfriend -- not to mention the wonderful debunking of all of Amway's prized fallacies. It is with great embarassment that I admit to being a former Amway distributor (I lasted almost six months before going to a "major function", and seeing Amway for what it really is -- a dangerous cult that sucks people in through profoundly dishonest methods, and quickly usurps control of their thought processes.) Unfortunately, I signed up in 1995, before I was on the web . . . you really are doing a great service to any uninitiated person who finds your site, and learns the truth BEFORE being thoroughly lied to and manipulated. Reading your story brought back some very painful memories, but what really struck me was the commonality of our experience (other than the fact that you wised up much sooner than I did.) My only consolation was that I talked the one person that I signed up into quitting, as soon as I discovered the truth. I also had a dramatic confrontation with my "upline", and must say that breaking free from that cult was so euphoric, it was almost (but not quite) worth the misery of being a distributor. Kind of reminds me of the guy who would wake up every morning and bash his head into a wall, just because it felt so good when he stopped . . . Take care, and keep up the awesome work.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 09 Jan 1999 I would like to know the Amway's Corporation background. Is it affiliated with any religious organization, its home base, and most of all its origin. I have read some of your webb information, but was not able to obtain the information I was seeking. I am not a distributor. I just want to obtain additional information. Could you please e-mail me with the information or information sources. Thank you.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Sun, 10 Jan 1999 sounds like you had all the answers? so how are you doing in your field now? as you can tell i'm a amway disb. i'm glad that everone dosen't get in amway if been hurt a few times and the doctors that i had where great the last doctor i had was when i got a fish hook in my eye . he was the best in tmy area . so i talked to him about amway and to find out he's been in amway now for 10 years doing it part tme becouse he wanted to spend more time with his kids he;s a dimond and if you don't know dimond's make really good money and he confermed that with me. he told me that he's glad he went in to amway he has all the free time he wants he took 3 years of to travel with his wife and missed working helping people i'm glad he wasn't retired from being a eye doctor i might never see again .he has nothing to do withmy group and will never make no mone from me and he helped me with a few things i didn't understand and felt stupid asking my up line .so the only thing i got from a millionair " from amway" and a doctor that enjoys his life becouse he built a disb. ship when he didn't have the time or money he new that he didn't want to work 50 years to take cae of his family was thank you i hope everone dosn't get in and they wll not becouse they don't have vision and they where only shown how to work hard i thank god to them . somebody needs to fix our things amway is a great company they help a lot of people that never had a chance to be anyone but a worker for a company for 45 yrs with no choices amway gives them hope so you write what you want but know you only have part of the pictures it makes you cry when people you helped get in amway go a cross stage at 1000 pins or 2500 and they are only making 100 - 200 a moth but they thank god that they can pay thier gas bill that month with that money.. becouse they got laidoff from work well i will keep reading your storys they make me smile:) don't take to heart i meet a lot of people like you take care,,,,,,
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 11 Jan 1999 One of my colleagues at work is in the Amway Business, and everything you said pretty much sums him up! By the way, He's also a local church youth minister! I am a Christian and am an active member in my Church. What I see of his greed and actions toward others DEFINITELY do not reflect Christian values. It's obvious that people in Amway attempt to gain wealth through exploitation of others. HOW SAD!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 11 Jan 1999 Help - help - help, My fiance is disabled (MS) and has turned to Amway as an additional source of income. Other than refusing to bring up the topic, this is the only way we don't argue and is the only thing we do argue about! I can't convice him to get out. He won't even read your info in this website.......any ideas?
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 11 Jan 1999 hi...i just want to add a little information to the AMWAY business...my husband and i tried it for a year....with all the money we spent on major functions, seminars and weekly meetings (oh and weekly tapes too), we almost went into the "poor house"..In one year the we made $42.00.....I do know some people who have gotten rich in Amway....However the story they tell about working 10 hrs a week is really a bunch of junk....the people I know that make money, make this their entire life...seven days a week, 24 hrs. a day...Well you know what!!! My husband and I happen to have a LIFE, a FAMILY, (kids & grandkids), and that's where our time should be spent...Nobody ever got rich just working ten hours a week...And most of the people I know in Amyway, have no other life...How sad...Just wanted to get this off my chest...their products are way over-priced...I shop with coupons, and specials, and save a lot more money than I ever got out of amway... WHAT A JOKE AMWAY IS!!!!!
Subject: Hello
Tue, 12 Jan 1999
Dear Mr.
Hello, My name is *****. I am reading to you in concern of my 18
year old daughter. She is as of now messed up in Amway, as you said that she
"has a little black book", "/planner", yellow note paper, and belives in
every word of the "SPEAKER".
If you have anyway of helping me get out of this mess please write me and
tell me what I can do.
I have notice a change in her life, family and friends doesn't matter
anymore.
Our home has been turned upside down. She refers to Amway people as her new
Best Friends. PLEASE HELP.
Thank you for your time and your worthy Webpage.(Any words would help)
Thank You A
Loving Concerned MOM
Subject: An Amway man to the end I see.
Wed, 13 Jan 1999
Hi Russ,
only one brief (but multi-part) question.
You do maths in order to do computer programming right?
You get taught logic gates right?
AND, OR etc.
You did machine code programming right? (I did a bit)
And assembler right? (I did a bit of that too)
played around with fortran, cobol, and God's own language, BASIC right?
Plus you say you took some philosophy classes. These usually should include
a sentence or two about the use of logic.
So...finally, the question is....
WHY on Earth did it take you 3 weeks to figure out Amway was/is and will
always be the fattest ugliest, bastardest scam on Earth?
Maths is not an opinion after all boyo.
I have generally taken less than 3 days to tell such people to piss off
(that's when I was still young, foolish and ...POLITE). That's right, I
wouldn't have the heart to tell them to die,die,die.
Nowadays however I am even more insidious. I hit them with simple maths
figures. It really upsets them. Why I know one flower-selling lady ("Roses
for Charity" you see...except you only have to donate 5% of your earnings
to register as a charity in this country) that will studiously avoid any
table I am sitting at, no matter what restaurant I'm in.
And all without so much as raising my voice or using a firearm.
Other than that, I have to say your page was quite entertaining and well
written, only...I'm sorry, I have to say this, I hope your feelings won't
be hurt....you look like one of those lizard guys from V. Admittedly a
rather harmless one, but still...I dunno why. You're not ugly really.
There's just something vaguely reptilian about your face. Well, that's my
opinion anyway.
Best Regards,
Subject: good insight! Tue, 12 Jan 1999 I am glad that you are taking advantage to your 1st amendment right. I am sorry that you are a little misguided though. You should actually know about a subject before you try to preach about it. I can send you the bonus structure and other information if you would like (so you can at least have actual facts)! In response to the idea that some things are more expensive in Amway: I will agree, but that does not mean that you have won that argument. Some are more, but most are less. If you can find something cheaper somewhere than go do it! We are not dumb! As for the fact that you do not think that it works, I am sorry that who ever showed you the plan didn't educate you enough. It works, and it works well, for those that DO SOMETHING! As with anything in life you must try! As for you, I am sorry that you find it within yourself to destroy other peoples dreams. All that I know is that I am going to be financially free, which is a good thing, because some people have to pay for the welfare that people with your work ethic and belief system depend on for existence. I am sorry if this is harsh but it is true. If you want to get anything out of life you must be positive. It is a shame that you must be negative to "feel good." I hope that you can eventually get more out of life. Good luck in whatever you do. I just wish that people like you would think before they speak (or write) Have a good evening and take care -***** (Amway Distributor for Life)
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 13 Jan 1999 dear russell.. very good and informative story. this amway nonsense is an incredible scam. I am surprised that they can even recruit ANYBODY anymore. who hasn't heard of amway? I have been pitched this garbage several times over the past 20 years (i'm 46). about 5 years ago a man i met at a trade show but hadn't seen in years called me to tell me of a great international opportunity opening in china (where i do business) and other places. the whole 9 yards...great future, own business, wonderful people blah blah blah. i asked what it was, what kind of opportunity (twice) but he wouldn't tell me, only said that his son would be in our area and would like to stop in to explain. being a gentlemen i agreed. his son and daughter in law showed up at the appointed hour and did their schtick; all of it....drawing circles, talking about dreams etc. near the end of the presentation they mentioned AMWAY CORPORATION. i knew i had been conned!! they left me some tapes (both audio and video) and some reading material and asked me to consider it and said they'd call me back next week to discuss. I never heard from him again! still have his goofy tapes and listen once in a while when i need a good laugh. anyway, recently a friend of mine (30 years, since high school!) became involved in this trash. i am trying to talk him out of it, but don't want to alienate him...he's so gung-ho!. will refer him to your site and others like it. keep up the good work!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 13 Jan 1999 Russell, Thank you so much for sharing your story...and for putting it on the internet!! I have a very close, younger friend who has been approached and now he is trying to get me into it. I told him I would get back to him once I had done some research. I didn't even bother to read and of the 'good' things about Amway...I went in specifically to look for the 'bad'. Just so I could arm myself with some good rebuttals. I'm going to try to get him to read your site. Thanks again.
Subject: In regards to your story Wed, 13 Jan 1999 I'd like to inform you that you have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Amway. I have been in Amway for some time now and I am doing great. I was the most skeptic person in the world before I signed up. People in Amway are the most positive and supportive people I have ever met. You have no right putting down something you know nothing about. Bill Gates himself said that in the millenium, any company that is not run itself like the Amway Corporation will not succeed. Have you seen their new business cards? They are standard size, however the are a cd rom disc. They also have a patent on them and they are the only company in the world to have them. You disgust me with your opinion on Amway. How would you explain all of the people making millions of dollars? This business is a win win situation. Do you know about any of the tax advantages? I have a gst # and I get a pretty nice cheque from the government every few months. Not to mention the fact that I am able to write off just about everything. It is close minded people like you who give Awmay a bad name. Why don't you do a little more reasearch before you make a judjment on a billion dollar company. How do you explian why they've been around so long? Why are they debt free? They must be doing something right. If it was a pyramid ar a scam, they would have been busted a long time ago!!! It's not a get rich quick company, but the quicker you work the quicker you get rich. I'm living proof that you can make a ton of money. I'm a 20 year old student who just went direct. I drive a nicer car than my teachers and boss. My pay cheque from Amway in a month is 10 times more than the one I get from work. And lets just say I make about $500 a month at my job, you do the math. Not bad for doing almost nothin, unless you count meeting people, going to 1 meeting a month and spending $150 dollars a month on products I would buy at the store anyways. It's easy to put down something that's succeeding when your not part of it. If you were getting my pay cheque plus your own, you wouldn't be complaining!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Thu, 14 Jan 1999 Thanks for your page. Great content and I believe you hit the nail on the head. I have recently become a distributor and your page has confirmed some of my concerns. I do believe I can work around these perils and am going to continue my sideline. As the Amway network introduces an online shopping network this fall, it will be interesting if the business changes , from pep rallies and audio tapes (which I will not buy or use) to "online shopping at a discount for members only" operated by underwear jockey's like me.......by day I'm in the securities business and have never like the catalog network concept. This new twist is very interesting and I bought me ticket (distibutor kit $55) to investigate and watch from the sidelines. I'll keep you posted on my findings...
Subject: Amway Thu, 14 Jan 1999 Hello Friend, I have to say your story was quite interesting. I am thinking about joining Amway, so I decided to do an inquiry on the Net. That's when I found your page. After spending some time reading your encounter, I've definitely made up my mind. I am absolutely, 100%, without a doubt going to tell my (would be) sponsor to sign me up!! I found your pages to be, for lack of a better phrase, utterly stupid. I cannot understand why someone as skeptical as yourself would even consider joining Amway. Especially when you know (as you stated) you're not a salesman! I find it hard to believe that anyone would allow themselves to be "talked into" joining Amway if their feelings against the idea itself and everyone involved were so negative. Are you that insecure? It sounds to me like you are looking for a "get rich quick" scheme where you can make money by being lazy instead of actually working towards a long-term goal. I think maybe you should wake up and "smell the roses"! But my intention here is not to insult you. On the contrary, I want to thank you. I was leaning towards not joining Amway, but after careful review of your pages I can now honestly say that I regret not signing up years ago! Thank you, and good luck with your computer programming! A Future Millionaire
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 14 Jan 1999 Hi, First, let me introduce myself. I'm a Singaporean and my name is *****. I was browsing the net regarding pyramids and multi level marking when I came across your story about Amway. Recently, I was persuaded and convinced by my introducer to join a company which can give us healthy, wealthy and happiness in life. The company is packaging their system with a life product, known as the 'NEGATIVE ION MAT'. I've also heard about Amways. However, they're not allow to sell in Singapore. Initially, I don't know the reasons for our government to disallow this products. But after reading through your story, I understand that the disapproval is for the protection of the consumers. The reasons for checing the net regarding pyramids and multi-level marketing is because I was persuaded and convinced my introducer to join her as a member for a multi-level company. This comapny is not operated in Singapore, but in Johor Bahru,Malaysia. One day, my customer called and told me to follow her to this company to pick gold. She was very excited when she told me. I asked her a few question relating to pyramids and She insisted that I must follow her, otherwise I will waste the opportunity. However, inside my heart, I was thinking, where on earth, there's such a good thing as to pick gold so easily. I tried to find excuses for not following her as I was tihinking of crossing the to Malaysian was so troublesome, because of jam and was dangerous to drive in. I was lucky to tell her off. A few days later, she rang me again to follow her and told me not to waste such an opportunity. Out of courtesy, I agreed to go with her. I pulled my husband along and my customer's husband drove us there.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Thu, 14 Jan 1999 congradulation for you, your still alive. I hope my brother who is in the same amway hell will survive. If you have any idea how i can help him get out .
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Fri, 15 Jan 1999
HEY RUSSELL,
THANKS FOR PUTTING UP YOUR STORY. YOU HAD ME CONVINCED WITHIN
30SECONDS. YOU HAVE PROBABLY HEARD A MILLION STORIES SINCE PUTTING UP
YOUR PAGE BUT I WILL GIVE YOU A BRIEF SYNAPSUS OF MY AMWAY
EXPERIENCE..
I WORK IN CUSTOMER SERVCE FOR A LARGE CELLULAR CO. IN N.Y. AND
A CUSTOMER I HELPED OUT CALLED ME SAYING I HAD DONE SUCH A GOOD JOB
HELPING HIM WITH HIS ACCOUNT. HE WANTED TO SEND ME SOME INFO ON A
'GREAT' BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE I SOUNDED LIKE SUCH A SMART AND
MOTIVATED PERSON. HE SENT ME ONE OF THOSE TAPES AND THEN EVENTUALLY
CAME OUT TO MY HOUSE LAST NITE. HE DROVE IN A SNOW STORM, AN HOUR AND
A HALF, TO MY HOUSE WHICH I THOUGHT WAS CRAZY. TALKED WITH HIM ABOUT
45MNS AND I WATCHED A TAPE. THEN HE LEFT ME A TAPE AND SAID HE WOULD
STOP BY AGAIN TOMORROW NITE TO PICK IT UP AND ASK QUESTIONS. THEN I
COULD GO TO A 'MEETING' ON TUESDAY. WELL, I JUST LEFT A MESSAGE ON HIS
MACHINE TELLING HIM I AM NOT INTERESTED AND HE SHOULD NOT COME TO MY
HOUSE TOMORROW. I EVEN OFFERED TO MAIL HIS TAPES BACK TO HIM. ANYWAY,
IT WAS KIND OF LIKE DEJA- VU WITH YOUR STORY. HE TOLD ME, ' DON'T
LISTEN OR POLL ANYONE WHO HAS USED OR SOLD AMWAY IN THE PAST.' WHICH I
FOUND INTERESTING. THANKS A LOT FOR DOING THAT STORY. YOU DEFINITELY
MADE A DIFFERENCE!!
Subject: Amway? Fri, 15 Jan 1999 Hi. My name is *****. I read your entire story on the internet and I found it to be fascinating. However, I do have some questions. I want to pose these questions for you because I am currently deciding wether or not to be involved in Amway. I respect everything you said and if I sound argumentative it is because I want to hear your response - I'm not trying to tick you off, quite the contrary, I really am striving to make an informed decision. For the sake of learning, let me take the other side. You say that Amway is destined to fail because of the saturation theory. You also say that this theory keeps it from being a universal truth. Do you understand that every business suffers from this problem? If everyone bought Ford automobiles, than ford would eventually run out of people to sell their cars to and cave in on itself. (Of course, the car dealers purposely work into their cars flaws so that they only last about ten years before falling apart - this means that none of them are based on universal truths and they are all destined to fail.) Second, Why does a business have to last forever for it to be good for me right here and now? Third, even if everyone did join amway, you don't make money off of recruiting people. There is no "head hunting fee", you make money off the sail of products. Just because everyone in the world was involved does not mean that they would not have other jobs, other ways of income with wich to buy the products. All it would take is for the lowest person on the pyramid to sell something that the highest person needs and the circle of life will go on. Finaly, if you work for a business, you work for a pyramid. It is as simple as that. Just because Amway doesn't have walls doesn't mean that it is any different than the company you work for. Take a look at the shape of your companies infrastructure sometime. As far as the friendship and the cultist stuff. . . I'm Mormon, I've heard it all. I have lots of friends both in and out of Amway, I have lots of friends both in and out of my church. I'm sorry that the group you were with got carried away. However, I do admit that I hate when someone sells me on an idea by plugging me into a finely crafted formula, oh, by the way, have you watched a comercial during the superbowl lately? The method a product is sold does not make a product valid or invalid. As for the upline making money off their tapes and propaganda, of course they do, and hopefully so will I if I decide to join Amway - that's capitalism. Thank our country's founding fathers. Ok. I'm not sure that everything I just said is absolute, I am going to lay out both your argument and mine in front of my friend (my sponsor) and I will let you know what I decide. But, if I still decide to join will you meet me in Wayco, Texas? Just kidding
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Fri, 15 Jan 1999 Hi there, I've been surfing the net looking for information on amway. Since apparently your letters are read by many I'd like to tell you my *real* problem with them. Amway targeted my fiancee for the second time . . . God only knows how they found him. They called him at work and asked for him by name. He's like part-time work so he can work at his music *financial freedom* were the words he wanted to hear. I'm willing to support him in anything. ANYTHING. Including Amway. Why am I opposed and NOT letting him anywhere near. They say things to him to drive a wedge in our relationship. Amway, if you read this, *I* am none of your business. My thoughts on your business atre none of your concern, and the minute you start telling him not to listen to me is the day you guys hit the door. Well, there's the door. If you would have acted like a business instead of a friggin cult you'd still have him.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 16 Jan 1999 Hi, I used to be "in" amway here in Australia. I did it for 2 years. I can now see that it is a cult and it is near impossible to suceed in. Thankyou for your website, because there are some people close to me who have just joined, and i have printed your story out for them to read.
Subject: Your Amway page. Sat, 16 Jan 1999 Hi Russ! I loved your Amway stuff, and have added it to my permanent list of links. Several years ago (prior to the full development of the Web) a dear old friend of ours who was sucked into the Amacult tried to get us involved. My partner actually signed up as a distributor, (half-heatedly playing with it for about a year) but neither one of us could lower ourselves to use such dishonest tactics on our friends. As a result we still have great relationships with all of our friends (with the unfortunate exception of Ed.) Like you, my natural skepticism kept us from falling into the pit. I'm sure you've thanked your Dad a million times over for reminding you to stay objective. I attended some of the rallies, and they are everything you say. Want to buy some motivational tapes? I think we still have a box full of them in the garage somewhere, along with a few bottles of LOC and Dish-Drops. (LOC actually seems to be a legitimate product that they could really compete on its own if they really were trying to sell the product instead of using it to lure potential Amaclones) Even so, the knowledge of what Amway and the AMOs really are is so disgusting to me that I couldn't dream of buying any. I pride myself on being logical, objective, and able to bracket my emotions when making a decision. I have a pretty good idea of what my values are, and extreme materialism isn't part of that value system, yet even I found some of the Amalogic seductive. It's a good thing I value my friendships too highly to risk them by becoming a non-stop Amapreacher. The ultra-right wing stuff, particularly the fundamentalist Christian nonsense also played a part in keeping my skepticism active. If you never attended one of the big regional rallies, you missed an experience that would blow your mind. At times I wasn't sure whether I was at a business gathering or a Jerry Fallwell revival. Their attitudes about the role of women are right out of the 1700s and it amazes me that so many women actually accept this rubbish. In the end I couldn't be convinced that spending my time drawing circles and deceiving a never-ending network of friends and acquaintances into becoming soap-peddling MLM preachers was preferable to my career as a telecommunications engineer. The whole episode ended up almost destroying our relationship with an old friend, the one who tried to recruit us. It also ended up messing up his life, his children's lives, and in my opinion is a major factor in his wife's battle with suicidal depression. They are no longer active Amway distributors . . . but like so many just can't let go of that feeling that they have failed. We see them only occasionally now, and although I hope that we can mend the relationship it will be difficult to re-establish the trust that was Amabombed in the experience. Keep telling your story, Russ! You tell it well and you tell it like it is. PS: Want to put money on Ted actually waking up and thanking you for trying to rescue him some day?
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 17 Jan 1999 To all prospects and current AMWAY distributors out there, you've got a mind of your own, use it. Ask questions, get the facts as they really are; ask the people who are in the business; and if you're not good with the numbers when going over the performance schedule then get someone who is. And when you've got all the information you need, make an informed decision that is independent of the good opinion of others. If you don't know what that is look for the double-tape pack "How to get what you Really, Really, Really, Really, Want" by Dr. Wayne Dyer and Dr. Deepak Chopra. By the way, I believe this is not an AMWAY tape. If you don't want to spend the money on the tape, just ask your library to get a copy ! Easy isn't it ? It's just as easy finding the information on this business. Furthermore I trust that no part of this message will be altered by the website owner. Cheers to all distributors, and I hope you find financial freedom.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 16 Jan 1999 I was approached recently by somebody trying to recruit me into a MLM scheme. I believe it is Amway, he gave me an internet address http://www.ezway.com/ it has to be Amway. Anyway the site isn't up the domain name is parked on some virtual server. This guy struck up conversation at a Jiffy Lube, mentioned nothing about "business." A week later I get a call from this guy at work. He asked if I remember talking to him, I did. He mentioned something about a group of people starting an Emall. I mentioned to him before of my technical skills and work on web pages for different companies in the area. So, I thought this guy was interested in just that, my technical skills. So I met with him at the Holiday Inn. I was starting to think before we met he was involved in a pyramid scheme. Well, my thoughts were correct, the sucky thing is he sucked information right out of me, ideas on starting my own business and that type of thing. Anybody that's technical thinks of starting a business, right? I was going to come right out and ask if it was Amway...but I remembered something, more on that later. He bought coffee, I listened, I even threw in some ideas that I heard from another MLM (that is not Amway but probably just as bad) So, it was over, about an hour, I just wanted to get home. He wants to meet again, ain't no way. I felt about the same way in your "Lone Ranger" pursuit. I think that is ironic, but I'm not wasting my time. Back to what I mentioned earlier...which I'll try to make this short. A friend of mine all through high school got a bunch of "the gang" together to speak on a business opportunity. I knew very little about Amway, I knew it was a four letter word that's it. He stated his spill on us. We were all fairly impressed cause my buddy was a very smart fellow. Graduated first in his class...then from there well, he must have taken silly pills or something. We asked for the name of the company, he avoided the question. We kept on him, then finally my one buddy said it, Amway. Steve still avoided it STILL, then he finally caved in, he said it's not what you think. It's not as bad as everybody says. Nobody joined up with him, nobody has heard from him, he's dropped off the face of the Earth. He was changed entirely, he wasn't Steve, he wasn't my friend. So, there is my story about Amway. How DO they do it? I know, but it's a shame. Even brains get sucked in. They can have it. I get great buys from Big Lots, Phar-Mor and Super Wal-Mart. It would drive me crazy shopping from Amway...I wouldn't be happy with the products. Plus, I would feel like big brother is watching me.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Sun, 17 Jan 1999 Dear Ginny, My heart went out to you when I read your story. My husband and I are distributors. We no longer show the plan, or attend functions. We do still order the products from the catalog and the corporation fortunately we are able to drop ship our products otherwise I would NOT be a distributor. Even ordering core products is wearing very thin we are about to even give that up. You see as soon as we made it very clear to our upline that we NO LONGER wanted to sponsor people they had a very different attitude towards us. I have asked for a personal shoppers catalog and it has been about 4 weeks. They say Oh YEAH we'll call you and never do I get a call. One guy called us demanding all of his tools immediately and he was rude. My husband tried to cancel our preview pack and it got charged to his card anyway but that acct was closed. He didn't want the pack. The upline totally harassed us and called me at 7:30 am to get the money. We supposedly went 1000. Something went wrong with that too. Our upline directs didn't put a home shopping delivery in right. My sponsor ended up with the pin we NEVER GOT recognized no one called us no one cared. It really stunk. I also am dissapointed in the Brig Hart law suit that my upline diamond is a part of. Oh yes and the major function nightmare!! I was so sick because they had it in Florida in July!! This is where the cult theory comes in. It is definitely a cult. The wearing you down( I never understood why they did that. The financial commitment they make you follow Our function cost us about $1200 and I almost lost my job because they didn't want to give me the time off. The chanting and repetitive phrases. I am very upset about this.I also developed health problems from the stress of the major functions and constant travel to open meetings sometimes overa nhour drive each way only to be chided by the upline because I didn't have a guest!! It goes on and on. I truly believe the sponsorship, functions,tapes and books are much like cult. They twist the Gospel to their advantage which I being very Catholic look upon as a sin. I believe the Corporartion of Amway is wonderful and they are not a part of the whole cult sponsoring thing of books and tapes. They are really very good to deal with and thats the only reason why I have kept my distributorship. There are those in my upline whos still say if you find someone give me their name! I have told these people numerous times I do not want to sponsor anyone!! Anyway thanks for making me feel I am not alone. Rhonda(not my real name)
Subject: I need your help!! Mon, 18 Jan 1999 My mom and my step-dad are getting sucked into something that sounds a lot like Amway. I've seen "THE PLAN" about six times from different people and have learned to recognize even the most cleverly concealed Amway pitch a mile away. The problem is that they (the Borg-like Amway reps) have learned that Amway is itself a red flag word that will shut down many opportunities right away. They are representing themselves as A.N.C (Amway National Corporation) and claiming no affiliation with the Amway that everybody knows. And my parents have swallowed the hook. Any suggestions you may have for showing them that the two companies are one in the same would be very helpful. Please e-mail me if you can help.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Thank you for writing about your experiences with Amway. I too had been approached by one of these people, promising the Earth. Luckily, I had the foresight to search the web for information on before going any further. Your story confirmed my suspicions. Thank you for sharing it.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Dear Russel, I have been an Amway distributor for more than a year, I have not made very much money, but then again, I have not put much time into it either. My husband and I have in the past had our own business as well as worked for others, and we know that nothing comes easy, nothing is for free, and short of an inheritance, winning the lottery or something of that nature, it will not happen overnight. If someone tells you otherwise and you believe it, then you are in for a rude awakening. My uncle, now deceased, started out as an insurance salesman, door to door, this was 25 years ago and I was 5 at the time, he and his family had come to visit us and they were struggling and one step short of living in their car. . 6 years later he was vice-president of that company, then he was president of it a few years later. He got this from working hard, many doors were slammed in his face but he was consistent and kept on going. Today, even though he passed away a year ago, his children have all gone through college, his wife was left with financial security. All this was due to his dream and his hard work. I have heard stories of uplines who were abusive, and you can hear in any large corporation of abusive supervisors. People are people, some are good, some are not so good, some are downright cruel, no one is perfect, Amway is not perfect so why should anyone think we are? My upline has always been helpful to us, when any of us were ill, they checked up on us to see how we were, at Christmas they brought us cookies they had baked themselves, when they have invited us to a convention, they have always offered to split the cost, . They are very helpful and to this day I have never bought a motivational tape, I might in the future, but it has never been pressed on me. On the subject of books and tapes, go into any bookstore in a mall, and you will usually see someone in the self-help section nearly all the time. There are other things that to the best of my recollection have not been mentioned. For instance, if you and your upline do not see eye to eye, you can change uplines, has anyone ever told you that? I also suggest that anyone who has questions read the compendium (Amways rules and conduct) Until today, I have never sent a letter like this to a website owner. I want to end this by saying you can't believe everything on the internet and someone somewhere is always against something, just put "anti" in a search engine, you will find a site where someone is against something, and you will usually find another one where someone is for the very same thing, both of these people will believe they are right, and the internet gives us a way to voice how we feel. So don't believe everything you see and hear, that is dangerous, and someone may offer you a bowl of pudding and a one way ticket to HaleBopp or the like. Find out for yourself, investigate for yourself, Make up your own mind. Bye for now
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 19 Jan 1999 I think you should look into what Amway is doing nowadays you would be suprised
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 19 Jan 1999 Russell: I am currently looking into Amway. I have only been researching it for a short time and I have listened to many tapes (not purchased}. Although they are motivating, I do find it bazaar that the talk of the actual business is hid behind talk of dreams and goals. I have found it to be a challenge to get anyone to talk actual figures with me. Instead, I find myself answering questions instead of asking them. I asked one person who was involved to stop talking about my dreams, for they are my concerns, not Amway's. I asked that he talk strictly numbers and he was quick to change the subject. I appreciate the document that you wrote and I will take it into consideration when making my final decision regarding "the business." I also would like to compliment your writing style, maybe you should write satirical essays. Thanks a lot.
Subject: SCamway
Tue, 19 Jan 1999
great artical! last week someone at my boyfriends work gave him a tape
called " how to work in your underwear
and not get arrested!" I was humored, being that I own a
lingerie store and really do sell underwear. I thought that it was just
another how to get motivated tape. Than his co-worker invited him over
to his house for a "get together".
I was told to come along too, but thinking this was just some guys from
work getting together to gripe about their jobs, i figured it would be
boring and stayed home. Good thing! He shows up and is totally taken
aback . Everyone is in a three-piece suit, my boyfriend figuring it just
a hangout wears his normal clothes - jeans and a t-shirt. Ha Ha, How
cool is that!(screw them and their fake self-importance.) He says there
was some kind of speaker talking about "how would you like to not have
to wake up to an alarm clock ,and not have a boss"
like someones going to think that sucks, right? So, he asks " How is it
that you actually make money?"
the dudes says "by selling our products."
"so I am a salesman?." "Not really" he says. "you make money by selling
our product and getting others to sell them too." "OH", he says "so its
a pyramid?"
The speaker, unable to reply starts talking about how they rep or are
involved with reputable businesses
( coke, sony, kelloggs ect.)
so he tries to get everyone to sign up $70 for who knows what, the
pressure doesnt go over well with my boyfriend, Sam. and he tells him
whenever he is rushed into a decision he automatically says no. the dude
was like " thats cool , think it over."
Anyway, Sam comes home and says this dude wants me to work with this
company called Amway. Having known someone who fell into this scam back
in 1989, i totally jumped out of my skin. I tried to tell what i knew
about amway, which wasnt much, so we went online to see if their was any
accurate info about amway.
not just their propaganda.
read about your ordeal and Sam said "wow, they were really like that."
So while no one here will ever be joining this sick-religous cult, we
are ever so grateful to have read your web site, and have a real
understanding of why this left such a bad impression.
thanks
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 19 Jan 1999 I find your story amusing and interesting at the same time. You're right. The tapes and the articles the distributors give or lend you are the same stuff and you'll never make enough money unless you sell at retail. Unfortunately, some of the products cost too much under their suggested retail price, so I sell it for distributor cost. Yes, I just recently signed up. What have I got to lose right?? But please note, I do not subscribe to the tapes nor go to the functions (well, ok, a couple of times and listened to three tapes). They asked, but I'm smarter than them bozos. What do I need the motiviational stuff for?? I'm pretty motivated myself. And, I've done a few presentations myself. My sponsor and her sponsor (or upline as they call it) have offered to go. I said don't worry, I can handle it myself. Well this is my plan but don't publish it or post in in your web page. Or if you do, use different names and stuff. I will sell this stuff at MY retail cost, try and get other people to sign up BUT tell them the truth. These items aren't any cheaper than the Targets and the Wal Marts. The only advantage is, you get to shop from your home and not worry about the drive to the store, the parking, and the crowd. I also have this plan to effectively use their alleged cash back bonus and stuff. How you may ask?? By getting them without actually using or buying the products. For example, they give PV points just for signing up to MCI. Heck, I don't have much use for the long distance carrier since I don't call long distance, therefore, I don't spend money. And like yourself, I also wondered why these people are always in suits and questioned them over a few things. I hate that business wear stuff. I'd rather be in jeans and t shirt. At least I look normal. Well, I'll let you know how my plan works. And good for you that you didn't sign up. I signed up because I need to keep busy. Who knows, maybe it'll work huh.... Regards, A LEVEL HEADED AMWAY DISTRIBUTOR
Subject: finished your amway story... Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Hi Russel ! Greetings from Amsterdam, Holand. It is great a site like yours exists... I was looking for Amway infos on the web because : Few days ago a friend phoned my boy-friend and I : 'Listen guys, I found an amazing way to make money... Normally I am very skeptical about that kind of things but this looks very good.. I don't tell you more so that your mind doesn't start to work on it but you can come at the information meeting next week...' My boy-friend went, I told him : 'Bet it's a pyramidal kind of sh...' Indeed it was, and not the least : Amway... Two years ago, two friends of mine (22 and 30 years old) jumped into it with a surprising naivety.... First very enthousiastic (typical high cunsumption of tapes and litterature) they quickly desenchanted, especially facing the poor market/sponsoring opportunities. They dropped the thing... They did yet got me into a meeting, fortunately I previously had a 1year experience with a Multi Level food distribution in France and knew, whether with Amway or another, it was not for me. But now 'they' are back and again friends I considered intelligent and together are being surprisingly seduced... It hurts... It's like a nightmare... I wish Amway stops exploiting my friend's need of money and freedom. For your info, during this meeting my boy-friend attented, Amway tried to demonstrate its dynamic by quoting MacDonald's and Microsoft's success ! Yes, they're still doing it ! Too bad, I am ALSO an anti McDonald... And still the friendship/family bullshit... I am sick of those guys... The only thing I can do is not to put any finger in it, by, first of all, not buying anything... P.S. : my love life is saved : my boy-friend won't join and won't buy (first he wanted to help our friend, but I convinced him the best help is NOT to buy...)... as for friendship, our friend is already so brain-washed (and so his 50 years girl-friend), I am afraid the point of no return has already been crossed... Otherwise life is great in Amsterdam! Thank you again, both your stories are very educative, comfortive and very-well written !
Subject: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 Dear friend, Thanks for a well reasearched articles on Amway and score of mails. It is really an eye opening oppurtunity for us. Amway is spreading its tenacles in India. The operations were started only recently but alas a good crowd has joined them. My self and my wife wereivited to few meetings and one my of close friend paid my membership fees on our behalf and got us enrolled. Right from the begining I started hating Amway. But unfortunately my wife has taken it to her heart. I have to say that this Amway business had spoiled our otherwise peaceful family atmosphere.It took lot amount of talk and councelling and persuassion from my sons and myself my wife is slowly but reluctantly geting out of it. I have been a behavioural trainer and a senior executive in a Bank.From what I hear from the members of Amway the'meetings' are nothing but braninwashing seminars. my close frined's wife tells me that Amway is introducing a new toothpaste which does not contain any harmful chemical inducing cancer.But this lady has been using leading brands for the past 25 years and I asked her why she did not have oral cancer. To me the whole thing looks like a mega fraud. I intend to do something to stop this menace from spreading. I hope to contribute to your growing number of readers though email the of Amway
Subject: Quick note Fri, 22 Jan 1999 Just wanted to say-Hey it's not for everybody, right? Wish you luck in your future-thanks for your opinions-they are certainly better thought out than some of these sites. If everybody was meant to do well in Amway there would be too many diamonds for any body to get paid! You become successful in something like this because of three things: Passion-to get farther than the current situation Character-strong enough to make your own decisions and not be swayed by hype Determination-this takes you pass the 100pv level, and the 600pv level, and the 1,000pv level and keeps taking you forward. I truly wish you well-yeah I don't know you from Adam, but I wish everyone I talk to about this Opportunity well. Thanks for your time RB-Colorado
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part1) Sat, 23 Jan 1999 You will find no "Your Amway Story" here. I need not comment on your experience, for it is yours. I need not defend a business. There are no apologizies here for what you "went through." Your view and my view are different and God bless America for allowing those views to exist, and for out lives to go on. ***** Amway Distributor
Subject: Your Amway page... Mon, 25 Jan 1999 I support your right to free speech, but why not be objective in your web page?? I am a distributor and will admit that there are some good and bad things about this organization. That is true with any company. Look at where you work and decide if there is enough bad stuff to right about. I do not see anyone wrighting about the bad scary things that go on at thier jobs. Look, some people do not use thier head and will be taken by anyone. If you use your head and make sound finacial decesions, any bussiness will be profitable. There are many positive aspects and some not so good. It is for all of us to pick and decide what is best.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 26 Jan 1999 Since around about May 1997, 72714 people have looked at this page. Frightening, isn't it? yes, very, so many people filled with so much bullshit! How can you sleep at night?
Subject: thank you for your helpful information, i have been approached by Amway reps... Wed, 27 Jan 1999 the information on your site helps me to feed that little voice inside my head that says "caution"!!! thank you.
Subject: Amway - Virtual Mall 27 Jan 99 13:44:22 GREAT PAGE! I've been enlightened, and thoroughly entertained by your site. Here's my story, and questions. I was approached by some friends this last summer to come to a meeting about a business opportunity. So I said, Oh, you're thinking about joining Amway. I agreed to sit through the pitch to see if had changed any in the last few years. I had already been to 2 previous pitches of "The Plan" in the past, with different friends. It was just as I thought, SSDD (Same Sh** Different Day). BUT, I thought to myself (since I'm also a computer programmer) there might be a way to make this stuff fly on the internet, and do it in a more ethical manner, and touch more people. So I shared this idea with the virtually pre-programmed group that I was with, and said that I'd think it over. Last week (six months later) I was called by the same friend, and was told that they were going to have another meeting, and I REALLY needed to come to this one because it had to do with moving "The Plan" to the internet. I decided to go and check this out. I had to listen to the whole PLAN again before he got to the part about the internet. Blah, blah, blah, yada yada yada. The internet idea about the "Virtual Mall" sounded pretty good so I said that I would probably like to do this, but it would be a couple of weeks before I could spare the $150 (we're building a new house). This "Virtual Mall", which I'm sure that your probably aware of, is supposed to open up in September of this year, and there was a definite urgency to sign on now for this "Pre-startup" for the web site. They even said that they furnish me a kit now, a I could send in the paperwork and fee in a couple of weeks. That's where I am now. After hearing from others, and surfing a few sites, and a little common sense, I know that there is a great deal of bull**** all around this, but is there a flower in the middle? I'm not going to listen to tape after tape after tape, and I'm not going to go to meetings every couple of days. If I don't have to sell my sole to the devil, can make money at it, and believe that I'm not screwing anyone, then I can do it and show it to others. Sooo, here are my questions. 1. What do you think about the potential for this "Virtual Mall" thing? 2. Is there any way to make money in an ethical, no BS manner using the Amway pricing and "bonus" structure? Oh yeah, I almost forgot. At this last meeting it was mentioned that for some of the Amway members (I think that it was just diamonds, but I'm not sure) there is a company Lear jet at there disposal at anytime. This REALLY sounded like a crock, but I said "wow that's cool" because I was tired and ready to go home, and didn't feel like listening to the arguement that would have insued from me saying "Oh bull****" Have you heard about the jet before? I know that you don't have time to answer everyone, but could you please post something about the "Virtual Mall". Since it involves the internet and everyone just bought a computer at Christmas and the internet is all the rage, the "Virtual Mall" idea is very enticing. Is it SSDD? Sorry if I'm asking about something that you've already posted, I haven't had time to read all of the emails.
Subject: Amway Wed, 27 Jan 1999 Hay thanks for the sharing your Amway story. I found your page while looking up ammunition for talking a friend out of Amway. I bet you will never fall for something like that again, with that in mind please considers the following. Are you good enough to go to Heaven? Of all the questions you will ask yourself in life, probably the most important is, Am I good enough to go to Heaven? The way to find this out is to ask yourself if you have obeyed the Ten Commandments... [TEN PAGE RELIGIOUS PAMPHLET DELETED] ...By the way, someone cared enough about you to give you this tract. *Condensed from Hell's Best Kept Secret
By the way, I didn't care enough about your tract to leave it in.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 27 Jan 1999 Hi, Russell, I was about 2-3 months new into joining the Amway biz when I first read your story about 7-8 months ago. FYI, I got into Amway before I got hooked up to the internet, so I only had the word-of-mouth criticism of Amway that came from "prospects" turning me away to consider in the beginning. While there is a lot to legitimately dislike about Amway (particularly the "motivational organizations"), almost nobody I talked to had an accurate perception of the business. Curiously, my upline had a more accurate stereotype of the nay-sayers than the nay-sayers had of Amway. Of course, who do you think did more research- the upline who are confronted with this stuff all the time or the nay-sayers I tallked to who may have been confronted with Amway once or twice prior? Anyway, at the time I discovered your site, I was still in a frame of mind to battle any doubts I had about the decision I'd made. I came to a part in your story where you said, "If you still want to believe Amway is worth doing, do not click onto this link!" or something similar to that. You were referring to info you had discovered on the internet which totally convinced you that you were not joining Amway. At the time I wasn't looking to be talked out of the business, and figured I didn't need to be looking at stuff designed expressly to discourage me, so I chickened out. Did read the rest of your story, though, and found it entertaining. Anyway, after finding enough about the business in the meetings and tapes and personal interactions to discourage me, I went back on the net to look at some of the criticism being published about Amway and really evaluate it. To my disappointment, I was unable to find your site again. Well, today I found it with the help of a link from Sidney Schwartz's site, but again to my disappointment, the link to whatever I talked myself out of looking at the first time now appears to have been edited out of your story. Can you send me an address or link to that page? Or is it something I've already seen? Thanks for your time. Sincerely, **** "I tried it, now I can knock it"
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 27 Jan 1999 I read through your whole story. I wish I could say I gained something from it, but it reeks of negativity from the outset. I hope you will read my entire response and gain something from it for yourself. There are a number of places where the context clearly shows that you made a great number of assumptions without any factual basis or research. As a member of a collegiate debating team, I would think you'd realize that is not a position of strength. There is a great deal of research material available on Multi-level Marketing and franchising. There are scams, and there are legitimate businesses. I have researched the subject, and I don't use rhetoric or inadequate research to support my assertions. You'd do better to update your hyperlinks in the story, because some no longer exist. After assuming that the material from the Internet was factual, you let your ego rampage (your "Lone Ranger" complex) convince you that your opinions negated the need for further research. Then, you assumed that your emotional position would be shared by Heather. You felt insulted that Phil and Ted presumed so much about you, and felt manipulated that they used "empty rhetorical" materials to sway you to their beliefs, but then felt justified to use the same approach on Heather. I think it's rather insulting to the people that view your website when you portray yourself as having a noble motivation for posting this story. Your own story ends with the following excerpt: "I'll tell you what I'm gonna do," I went on. "I'm going to tell all my friends about Amway, and I'm going to put everything I've learned on my web page." It sounds like an immature threat of a school-age child to write insults on the walls of public restrooms. Your motivation appears childish, but that's simply my opinion. Your college education would be put to better use finding a subject that edifies the readers. Look around where you live. There are often more successful businesses engaged in building than destroying. It takes months or years to erect a multiple-story structure, and one wrecking crew a few weeks and some explosives to dismantle it. If more businesses were engaged in dismantling than building, how long would it take before we are all out in the cold? Maybe Amway builds something for some people, so leave it be. A tree is know by its fruits. Find something positive to share, and let that be your legacy. I will be surprised if you post this response, however, I do hope you are able to "assimilate" the spirit and philosophy that comprises my motivation for writing to you.
Subject: Request for your Opinion Thu, 28 Jan 1999 Hi Mr Russell Glasser, I have sent u an e-mail on 14 Jan 99, however it is a incomplete message. Let me start my story all over again and I shall like u to give me your frank opinion and advise. As I mentioned, I was browsing the net regarding pyramids and multi-level marketing when I came across your story about Amways. As I said, I was persuaded and convinced by my introduce to join her as a member in a multi-level company. This company is not operated in Singapore, but in Johor Bahru, Malaysia as our government does not approve mullet-level marketing or pyramids. Initially, I was very enthusiastic about this. We have to pay about Singapore Dollar Three Thousand and Two Hundred to become their member however, the company will give u a negative ion mat (so called a health mat, good for blood circulation), a two days management consultant course (MCC) and a manual. I was told that the system is very fanstactic and within a short period of time, I will be making a lot of money. Thus, I went thinking that during this recession time, I can make something extra. The system works in such a way that, all we have to do is to bring in 3 members under me, so called 'direct business partners', and either two of my direct brings in a member, so called 'indirect business partners', I will them be promoted to the next level for a higher commission. In other words, it is like manpower recruitment. For your infrmation, I only joined them in 25 Nov 98. I was told to concentrate on this business there for about a month or two to build up my line. Thus, I we quite hard working for the first few weeks and managed to perusaded about seven people to join, including my husband. However, I still found that it was very tough to get in member. And if my downline brought in people without signing, I really felt very lousy. The company held special classes by the tranier for members to attend and learnt how to pull in people to join. For the first few classes that I have attended, it sounded very true and it really pointed out our weaknesses. However, after attending two classes held by the branch manager, it totally changed my views of this business. That is why I decided to search the net for information. After reading your experiences with Amway Corp., I realised that the method and tactics that were used in this company is almost 100% similar except that they only tell u to pay once and no stocks keeping. I have decided to stop pulling people to join and all it quits. But I do not know how to explain to my downline that I am no longer interested and it is actually a 'scam'. My upline has been calling me to buck up and not to let it get cold. She also told me to check on my downline to get them moving. I have not told her off yet as I can see that she is already very into this business and I have to be careful about what I said, only positive and not negative. My purposes of writing to u is to seek advise and opinion in this matter. Am I making the right decision to quit it now. Please advise and please keep my identity as confidential. Awaiting for your reply soon. Thanks and Regards.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 28 Jan 1999 I just got a call from a "friend" of mine asking me to come to a meeting he and some attorney are going to. He's an Amway distributor, and his new venture had something to do with the Internet and Amway... though he says Amway is getting out of the marketing business..(yeah, right) Anyway, seems like his marketing group is going onto the 'net, and its supposed to be a big opportunity. (yeah, right)...last time I talked to him, he pitched his "marketing plan" and 'people helping people" line to me and my partner for about an hour. I finally stopped him cold by asking him point blank, is the program you are talking about in any way connected with Amway? He said, yes, it was... I went on to tell him that I could not ethically be a part of Amway when the founders of the company donate millions of dollars to extreme right wing, anti-gay causes. Now, it so happens that I am gay, my partner and I have been together for over 18 years, and my Amway friend knows this. He and I went to school together, and he has known about my sexual preference since that time. He truly had no answer for me... he couldn't diffuse my argument. Its taken him almost 2 years to try again, and I look forward to blowing him out of the water again... keep up the good work
Subject: (no subject) Fri, 29 Jan 1999 TRIED TO E-MAIL GINNY, SHE'S GONE.... MAYBE YOUR GIRLFRIEND & HER HUSBAND SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN AMWAY,,,, THEIR DIVORCE RATE IS ONLY 1%....GET THE HINT....
You must not have tried very hard, because she hasn't gone anywhere.
Subject: While you whine... Fri, 29 Jan 1999 go ahead & try to find fault, "The truth will set you free" of course that is about the knowledge of salvation thru the blood ofJesus Christ, but it can also apply to this. Instead of whining about everything u think is wrong with Amway, what don't you opne your mind up a bit & look at all the good it, they (the owners) have done. Not only for giving hope to people like us, ( we r in 3 yrs) but for all the charities they support & communities they have reached out to. why would anyone who doesn't really educate themselves, be so negative?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 29 Jan 1999 Hey, what's the difference between God and an Amway distributor? God doesn't think He's an Amway distributor!
Subject: Amway story Fri, 29 Jan 1999 Hey!! I read your story; definitely interesting. One word of advice: GET A GRIP!! Quit blaming others for things and use your own freedom of choice!! A Canadian Non-Amway distributor (I saw your invitation for Amway reps to "insult me now.") I thought I did. I exercised freedom of choice by refusing to sign up for Amway. That was two years ago, and I haven't regretted it since. Subject: Re: Amway story Thu, 04 Feb 1999 I guess it was the tone of your story that led me to believe that you were not making use of your freedom of choice. Specifaically, you made it sound as though these Amway goofs had some power over you, and that it is now your altruistic duty to warn your fellow man about "The incredible mind control power of Amway!" I believe everyone is his own free agent and decides as he chooses. I also believe that, being in possession of vital information that could aid someone in making a life-changing decision, it *is* an altruistic duty to share it. It is your choice to not believe me and write unfriendly letters. What a great country, eh? Subject: Re: Amway story Sat, 06 Feb 1999 First of all, did I write that I did not believe you? No, I did not. Secondly, it has actually been my choice to write you letters that were meant to be helpful by making you see that your article comes off as whining. I simply see your article as a very one-sided, out-of-control look at a subject. Many people who I know would at this point go back and re-examine their writings because they have accepted the fact that an objective, unbiased eye has read them as I have. This open attitude can help a person to be very successful in things like business, athletics, study, and life in general (I know this from experience).
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Sat, 30 Jan 1999 Dear Russell, I came upon your webpage as a result of doing some research into cults and became aware that Amway uses all manner of deceptive ploys to influence people. I realise that you have already written out your story but I wonder if you would mind putting it more succinctly and filling in my questionnaire. I hope to get other people to fill it in and then I can compare answers and draw out common threads. Irealise that like me you are a busy man so I wait hoping you'll have some kindness towards me !! If you know of others who could help me in this then I'd also like to hear from them. Thanks
Subject: concerning errors in your logic, sir. Sun, 31 Jan 1999 Dear sir, To say that you know all there is to know about amway because you know what distributors answers are and you know how to twist that answer is ridiculous. You have nothing but your opinion to back up what you say. I waded through paragraph after paragraph to find a single hard fact to back up your opinions, and there were none. Only supporting opinions. I'd say, sir, that at the very least, Amway has logic on their side. Yes, there are those, like yourself, who will not ever "dream the dream". It's a matter of ambition. Most people would rather sit at home in the lazyboy watching football, then go out and build a business every night after work. You would rather write up garbage on web sites. Amway distributors do not have web pages bashing unambitious people like yourselves becasue as a matter of business, we are nice, friendly, God loving people. And so we are sympathetic, and understand that we all have our issues. Please, sir, do not misunderstand. I beleive fully that you are entitled to do omething else with your life. And if you follow a code of ethics, and moral judgement, and practice unfaltering kindness and love towards others that you will be succeessful in anything you chose to do. But why put out a site like this to try to thwart someone else's efforts to make a better life for themselves. The positions that you take are not new to me. In fact, your site in meaningless. It says nothing that every broke, close-minded individual thinks. You failed to come up with a single original thought. Sir, the FTC investigated the Amway opportunity 1979 for 5 years, and not only did they not find anything wrong-- but afterwards they ENDORSED IT as an excellent example of true American business. What do you know that the FTC couldn't find in 5 YEARS. Sir, if you honestly, and open mindedly examined the opportunities that we have to offer, I garantee you that you could not find one legitimate error. We've been growing steadily for the past 40 years. Your kind has been attacking us for that long. And we're still growing. Illegal pyramids rarely last a few months. We are legal, we are honest. That's what you don't like about it sir. The honesty. The truth is that YOU could be very successful in this business if you were willing to put in the work. You want everything to be a charity obviously. You want everything to be handed to you. Only you should be paid for what you do, everyone else should sell their goods at cost. Right? True, the average amway distibutor doesn't get rich.. NEITHER DOES THE AVERAGE AMERICAN. It's all about ambition. Those who are ambitious will go out and grab on to opportunities, while those that are just sit back and watch like crabs in a basket. Crabs in a basket. The Crabbers secret to keeping the crabs from climbing out of the basket is they put more than one in. If one tries to climb out, the other crabs pull at him and try to climb over him and pull him back down with them. Whereas if they just left each other alone, or better still, watched what the successful ones did to escape-- they would all make it out. It's all about logic, sir. Logic. 2 + 2 = 4 no matter what your opinion on the matter is. Sir, the fact is, you have offered no evidence to back up your claims. You see that Amway makes 7 Billion a year and you call them rip off artists. Did you know that more than 60% of that money was paid back into the distributor force in bonuses and incentives? How much of its revenue does YOUR employer throw back those who helped to make it? I'm sorry for you sir. If you had put the energy into building a future for yourself, rather than trying to steal someone else's chances, you could be a very happy person someday. But I'm glad for people like you. You remind me that I'm on the right track. If the masses agreed with what I was doing, then I'd be just like them. And the masses, sir, are broke. Enjoy your job, with its "cost of living" raises. I'll send you another e-mail at this time every year from a different re
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 1 Feb 1999 I have a friend of 12 years who has been involved with Amway for about a year and a half. At every social gathering during this time he either corners my wife or myself to try to sell products or come to a meeting. This persons mother had passed away while we were out of town and we went to visit him and his wife, who has been friends with my wife for 20 years, to offer condolences. It only took 30 minutes before he was in the basement showing his Amway cleaning products and would we like to try them. At his son and daughters birthday party, he cornered me with this new business about buying over the Internet in a multi-level way, but without mentioning Amway. I am sure Amway is involved some way. I know that I am about to lose this friend. I can handle it. My wife probably will not but we have already begun to distance ourselves from them. Thanks for all the info.
Subject: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 Russell: Your story with Amway was fascinating and intelligent. I have never looked into joining Amway but have known many people that have claimed to be involved and I've always been skeptical but curious. I think you really have "made" a difference with this story. It certainly affected me. I work as a Computer Programmer in Richmond VA. If you ever need a job please let me know!
Subject: RE: Amway Tue, 2 Feb 1999 A few days ago a friend of mine gave me some materials to read and said he had someone coming to talk to him about a new internet business, that did not sound to bad. Then looking over the materials, I realized it was Amway. The was it was briefly explained to me, by my old friend, was that Amway had decided to build a big virtual mall and work the internet. Supposedly some big name co. are going to be available. Now, with the bit I read, I am not sure that is correct, but supposedly it is to be up and running next Sept. I thought you might be interested in this "rumor", or maybe you have heard it already. I certainly would agree that these people are too "cult"like and would not now or ever think about alining myself with them...or any other MLM company. Made that decisions years ago, but sure was interesting viewing their video and looking thru their propaganda. I decided to surf and came across your site and a few others. Keep up the good work and getting out the word.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Wed, 03 Feb 1999 I have no ties to amway corp., but aren't you tired of worring about other peoples lives. What a huge waste of time in writing this letter.
Subject: Your Amway page...help me? Fri, 5 Feb 1999 A friend has recently gotten involved in Amway and I took a look at "the plan" and I was just about to sign up when I startrd researching the internet. I have found unbelievable things.To make a long story short, I tried to show him some information that I printed from various sites and he was more than reluctant. He called and I tried to tell him a little bit over the phone. But as before, it didn't sink in. I told him about all the money made through tool sales and where all that revenue went to and here is his reply--------THEY DESERVE IT! That's what he told me . They deserve it. I was speechless after that. I realized it was no use. He told me he had to get to a meeting anyway. My question is ---HOW CAN I GET THROUGH TO HIM? What can I say to at least get him to look at all the anti amway websites out there.? I really need your help......
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 8 Feb 1999 Just fininshed you page. Thanks a million for taking the time to write it up. I almost fell for it. The guy WAS scheduled to come over later this week. I already wasted $165 bucks on a kit and a sample kit....I'll just have to mark it up as a mistake....and think about how much money I saved in the long run by not signing up. Thanks again,
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 9 Feb 1999 Nice site. Unfortunately, it contains many half-truths and errors, but you knew I'd say that. Obviously, you don't need the benefits of an Amway business. It seems you have plenty of free time. I believe you think that you are helping others; I don't sense any malice in your writing. However, your considerable talent and energy would be much better spent on something worthwhile. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
Subject: I'm not in AMWAY--HELP! Tue, 09 Feb 1999 HI I don't get it. Everthing you described was: 1) a personal choice 2) resulting from crappy people 3) having nothing to do with AMWAY and everything to do with the group you got in HMMMM Someday you'll look back and say?
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 09 Feb 1999 Hey, Russell, I e-mailed you about 3 weeks ago regarding an earlier version of your site. It contained a link to another page with a preface like "if you want to find out what I found out that really convinced me not to get into this Amway, click on this link!" To make a long story short, I did not check it out at the time. Later, I went back and could not find your site again (I was new to surfing the net, and had not grasped the importance of bookmarks!) When I found your site again 8 months (and a whole lot of frustrating Amway experiences) later, the link was gone. Does the site or page this link led to still exist? If so, can you please send it to me? Also, I don't know if you got my last message as I mailed it to the e-mail address at your previous website (the site address which I guess you changed in December '98). I would really appreciate a response as our Amway membership expires or renews this month, and I am compiling everything I can to talk my wife out of renewing. ( I could just demand it, but I believe there's enough info out there for her to make that choice on her own.) By the way, do you keep up with the trends in the Amway/AMO's? I'll bet that after all that bad-mouthing of the internet that Phil and Ted did, there probably out right now telling people "you can now own your own internet business" because Amway introduced an ordering website last summer, and is planning some type of internet mall this year. It's truly pathetic, because all these distributors are out trying to wow prospects with their "internet access business opportunity", yet they can't even carry a conversation about the internet 2-3 steps beyond that. Should be fun to see what unfolds next. Anyway, hope you can respond soon. Your efforts are appreciated. "Been there...Done that....Hated it!" The link you are referring to may be "The Skeptic's Dictionary" by Robert Carroll. My link is invalid because he moved to his own domain. It is now found at http://www.skepdic.com/amway. I have fixed this link, so thanks for calling it to my attention. I got your previous mail, but as I'm sure you can appreciate with all the mail that I post, I do not react to every piece of mail immediately, even the ones that specifically ask me to. I have been backlogged for quite some time and have been meaning to update and respond to all the mail that I haven't gotten around to.
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part1)
Wed, 10 Feb 1999
Thank you you for telling everyone on the net about your experience with
Amway. I to had a similiar experience few years ago. The gentlemen
was offering me a job of a life time and wanted my number to give me
information. A week later he was pickig me up for a meeting. The
meeting was at a local Village Inn and I learned nothing of value. They
kept telling me how I could be like them. The problem was that i did
not want to be like them I wanted a job. I wanted to leave but I did
not drive to the meeting. The person who invited me picked me because
he was supposedly in the neighborhood.
So, I really know what you went through. I did not take it any
further then the first meeting and cut my ties with the gentlmen I met.
I graduated from college with a double major in Bank and Buisness
Finance. I am now working for a company called Primerica. Some call it
the Amway of banking because we do recruit others to come join our
company. However, all lot of companies in our field are recruiting.
We also do not belive that everyone fits in to our company. Not
everyone passes the liscensing rquired by state and federal laws. I
have only been with the company only three months and actually am doing
quite well (I'm making money). I guess what I am trying to get at is if
you believe multy level marketing works or not.
As for my company you do have they ability to overide those that
you recruit. like a sales manager of most sales positions. You also
can make money even if you don't recruit at all. Please feel free to
send me your opinions. Wlll that is it thank you.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fri, 12 Feb 1999 Hey Russell, As an ex-(sc)amway distributor, I really enjoyed reading your story. I am glad that you didn't sign up..... you would have lost a lot of money and especially friends (like I did). After reading the story,... I wanted to beat the s**t out of "Heather"... Heh-heh!! Anyway,... take care!
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 12 Feb 1999 I just found your webpages, and the 2 stories. What I enjoyed the most was the letters. Amazing how many idiots are out there. Q: You havent updated your pages in a long time. Do you have any intention of doing so?
Yes, although it took me five more months to get around to it.
Subject: ginny's amway story (part 3) Fri, 12 Feb 1999 Just thought I'd let you know that I got into Amway as a newlywed and managed to go direct.....but at the end of 5 years of Amway I was divorced, lost everything I had, owed back taxes, and other terrible things because I thought my upline cared about me. They didn't. Please don't be fooled. It ruined my marriage and 5 years of my life....plus the aftermath that I deal with every day.
Subject: not an insult Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Hey, I'm trying desperately to talk my wife out of Amway, it's ruining my family, she doesn't care, they have her semi-brainwashed, I can't seem to stop it...whats the one thing i can say to get her to quit?? I've written all them assholes at amway, then they contacct her and tell her what a demon her husband is,, if that isn't a cult what is?
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 13 Feb 1999 I'm so glad you posted this page. Like Sam 'the scam' Walton said, "find out what everyone else is doing and do the opposite". You helped me realize that I chose to do the right thing for me and my family. What you're page does is weed out all the kooks for me, I just send them your way and if they agree with you, I say goodbye. By the way if you are broke at 65, call me. I'll let you mow my lawn and clean up my estate, earned of course by participating in the free enterprise system through Amway. Thanks for all the help. Your friend, *****
Gee, what a swell friend! Can I clean your boots with my tongue too? Huh? Can I? Please?
Subject: Private Franchising Sat, 13 Feb 1999 Russell, You either had a very dark and gloomy past or you are just one of those radicals out there that will always be anti-everything. You know, if you spend your energy on positive information instead of spreading negative, your own opinion, facts about Amway, this country will never again fall for the likes of another Bill Clinton. Get a life and if you are a catholic, I strongly recommend that you start going to confessions again. Britt-Worldwide Distributor
Subject: Ginny's Amway story Sun, 14 Feb 1999 vorrei qualche informazione in italiano se possibile
Je ne hablo pas si deutsche, dude.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 14 Feb 1999 I just wanted you to know your message is being heard. I too have been approached by Amway, and all sorts of warning flags have come to my mind. I have read one of Amway's books, listened to the tapes, but I wanted a different perspective. That is when I came upon your site on the internet. Thanks for telling your story. It confirms some of my doubts about the company. Keep up the good work!! Eagle Lake, Texas
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 15 Feb 1999 Russell, My name is ****. I am an Amway distributor.
Does this sound like the beginning of a support group meeting or what?
I have been one for about four months, but I'm still very green. I just read your entire story. I hope that it's all true. At the least, it was very entertaining. I hope you don't read this like I'm being sarcastic, because I'm not. Yours is the third story I have read like this, and they all follow what you wrote: being given tapes that say NOTHING, being told lots of stuff, but getting nothing out of it. Meetings where you hear lots of talk, but nothing useful. Who was the 'Big Daddy' of your (almost) organization? Was it Dexter Yager, or someone else? The reason I ask is because I'm in the Britt team. I was recruited by a good friend of mine from college. He was snagged by someone he met while on a business trip, and went to a meeting (FED, I believe). He got back to me, and was very impressed by it all. I'll just cut to the chase and say I trusted him because he was my friend. I was more doubtful of the stranger. When he called me, I asked lots of questions, and he was very honest with me. Really, he didn't give me the smoke-blowing session you and the others have spoken of. And it's been like that ever since I got in. That's why I'm writing you. I am wondering if there is such a remarkable difference in the teams. I feel like I have a solid understanding of how to build an honest and successful Amway business, not just one where I am very secretive. Again, let me assure you that I in no way am expressing animosity or angst. All I'm trying to say is that I'm shocked that in a business where I've gotten honest advice and answers, somewhere in the country there is the same business running some blind-leading-the-blind scam that is clearly an INSULT to folks who actually think for themselves like you and me. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, and I work in Research Triangle Park in North Carolina. So, like you I'm sure, I'm pretty analytical. So, like you, I didn't just jump onto Amway because there was money to be made. I didn't want to spend all my time doing Amway! All the higher-ups seemed to be doing that, even though they boasted that they had scads of free time! What free time? They're always doing lectures and stuff! Anyway, I just wanted to identify with much that you had to say. Would you mind telling me more about the team you almost joined? You don't have to give me actual names of friends you almost recruited or anything. I just want to know where this is going on. As I said before, yours is not the only story like this on the Net, and I am curious to find out if this is going on in my area. I want to know if I'm unwittingly falling prey to the same thing!!! I hope my honesty and candidness has gained your trust, at least in some small way. You can reply to me at ***@***.***. Thank you, and I hope you have a great time programming!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Tue, 16 Feb 1999 I'm not going to insult you. Had I had your experiences I would feel much like you do and I too would have got out. Best of luck and starting your business in computer gaming. Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 16 Feb 1999 Me again. Just finished your pages. You had some real JERKS for upline. My sympathies.
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