Sun, 19 Dec 1999 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thanks for your story...made me laugh because i went through the same thing when i got in FEB 96 until NOV 99 and my (IBO) is up this year...thank god...lol) anyways i bought hundereds of tapes went to rallys, opens, and 7 major functions along w/ my fiance' now that i look back and think about it ...i get a really bad taste in my mouth...especially when i watch some of the highlight videos from the functions....i makes me angry and i can't believe i wasted my time...yes it is true that you tend to look at everybody as a prospect and that's ashame...it also destroyed my work ethic as it is preached that a J>O>B> is not the way to be happy..blah.blah.blah...i even stopped my college courses because AMWAY took so much of my time..at least my fiance' graduated in 1998 from KU I unfortunately still have 2.5 more years to go...since i was out chasing a dream business...I believe i can make my dreams come true BUT only w/o the amway opportunity... Thanks for your WEB page and continued success.... p.s. by the way my DIAMOND is no longer in the business as his morals got the best of him and he was snubbed out by his upline diamonds for telling the secret of the system....i was 4 downline from him and now i can talk to him w/o being a direct or whatever...the most he ever made as a diamond from AMWAY was 156,000 /yr and that was his best year he said..(he's 31) and went diamond back in 1990 the same year he made over 700,000/yr in the system money...
Wed, 22 Dec 1999 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Hi! I enjoyed your story. It sounds just like mine!!!!! My husband and I have been "closet distributors" for about 4 years. We actively participated for 2 years, then quit going to events or buying "tools". We renewed because we like some of the Amway specific products and couldn't find them elsewhere. Now, I've found just about everything Amway sells at my local Target or WalMart stores (for a cheaper price, of course). The only thing now that's kept us in is the vitamins. Were you ever told to do the test of putting Amway's vitamin and your favorite vitamin in water to see which one dissolves. Well, that hooked me. In all the research you've done, have you found a good replacement to Double X? I'd appreciate any info you could impart as it is closing in on the end of the year & my husband would like to renew just for those products. Thanks
Wed, 22 Dec 1999 Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story... > Were > you ever told to do the test of putting Amway's vitamin and your > favorite vitamin in water to see which one dissolves. Well, that hooked > me. I can't imagine what on earth a pill dissolving in water has to do with how healthy it is for you. Try dropping a sugar cube in water... that dissolves REALLY fast. You should probably consider taking a sugar supplement with your meals from now on, eh? > In all the research you've done, have you found a good replacement > to Double X? I never took Double X, but I didn't find any replacement for it either. I don't know what it does. > I'd appreciate any info you could impart as it is closing > in on the end of the year & my husband would like to renew just for > those products. Well, it is your choice whether to renew or not. I think my opinion has been made clear. If you think those vitamins, for whatever reasons you choose, are worth their undoubtedly high price in addition to the renewal cost, then don't let me stop you.
Thu, 23 Dec 1999 Subject: Reply to Amway site Dear Russell, I will keep this brief because I know you are busy. Even though Amway in the UK is slightly different (we have different Pyramid/Franchise laws) most of the content of your site drew many parallels with my recent experience with the Amway corporation. Like yourself, I too work with computers, providing technical support for the internet. However in my spare time I write and publish Web Pages for extra money. One day I was speaking to a customer when the conversation got turned to my financial situation, and what I was doing in my spare time. (like you the chance to start my own computing firm is firmly in my mind), I was lured with the offer to produce a web site for a major home shopping company. Too good to be true I thought, but could be good financially! We arranged to meet at a local burger bar for a brief discussion where he stated how he wanted the website to work. Of course then I needed some further information on his company, and he invited us to meet in a weeks time when he would introduce a business colleague of his. "Come to us for dinner" he said. To cut a long story short, we then spent the next two weeks being hounded by telephone calls and invitations, and were led to believe that we (my wife and myself) could profit greatly from becoming distributors. Eventually we received a large package full of cleaning products and information. I though this was pretty strange, but they made me sign a receipt for it, little realising that I had just signed up as a distributor. It was then I realised that there was something wrong, so I checked out Amway on the internet, some bad, some good, but the one that made me stop and think was yours. I just wanted to say thankyou. Your website has confirmed my worst fears and I will be returning the product pack as soon as possible. I will be posting the full story on http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/g_d_smith/amway very soon. It should make interesting reading. With your permission I will post a link to your site. Yours Gordon Smith Guildford, UK.
Fri, 24 Dec 1999 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Great site. I've never replied to a homepage before but your story compelled me to do so. Coincidentally, I've been doing some research on "Quixtar," which has all the markings of an "Amway OnLine." Like yourself, I was approached in an electronics store and a gentleman sparked up a conversation with me, and like the Silicon Valley norm, we exchanged business cards and parted. He called me a few days later and asked for my help in "expanding his e-commerce business (more like expanding his downline, eh?)." I was curious from the start, but quickly became suspicious when he could not answer simple questions regarding hardware, software, Oracle, etc; the guts of an e-commerce business. I blew him off but finally agreed to attend an informal meeting. There was a "guest speaker" and it was obvious that my "sponsor" worshipped this man. I tried to ask the speaker detailed questions, and having just read your article realize that he skillfully deflected them and got me to think of the one reason I was there - MONEY. Being 23 and craving the nicer things in life (high-rise condo, NSX, Shred-Betties), it wasn't that hard to do so. In any case, I left the meeting and almost immediately started doing research on this "Quixtar" scam, which is why I'm in my office on Christmas Eve. I'm supposed to meet with my "sponsor" after the holidays and am now tempted to do what you did. I haven't given them any money, nor am I willing to, but I'm curious to see how far I can infiltrate their cult. Hope to hear from you and happy holidays!
Thu, 30 Dec 1999 Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story... Daniel, I was starting up a section on Quixtar, but I haven't finished it yet. One thing I will point out is, have you tried signing in to Quixtar with a guest login? Navigating the site is a nightmare, and comparison shopping against other web sites selling similar products will provide hours of laughs.
Sun, 26 Dec 1999 Subject: A funny Amway Mad Lib for you This wasn't exactly the way it came out the first time, but I only changed 4 words to get this letter. Hope you get a kick out of it. *** Dear shallow shit, You are so incredibly shallow that I just can't believe it. You deserve to die. I hope you always remember the words of the famous diamond Abe Lincoln, who said: "you can do it." Boy, I'll bet that old Abe Lincoln could really teach you a thing or two! Here's a person who makes over 2000000 dollars every month. Do YOU make that much, you shallow shit? If not, then you are obviously wasting my time. My upline dog, who made 4 dollars last year from his Amway business alone, told me that nobody likes a dick. And that is exactly what you are, a great big dick. In closing, I would like to say that although I respect your right to spew your opinion, you obviously have as much intelligence as a furbie, and while I become ripe and sweet you will be serving me my cake and selling cars to me. I wish you success in whatever you do, and I of course bear you no ill will. ridiculously, Nicole (A ripe distributor)
Mon, 27 Dec 1999 Subject: Finished your Amway story... All I can say is THANK YOU! I have recently told off a very close friend because of her continued attempts to get me into the Amway family. Of course, she never called it Amway. Odd, isn't it, how Phil told you that you'd never reach anyone via the internet, and now they have changed their name to Quixstar and are all OVER the internet. I loved my friend Robin, but getting a Christmas card with her business card falling out of it, and reading at the bottom stuff like, "Imagine your life without having to worry about money!!!!!" really did me in! I wrote to her, told her I didn't know her anymore and that she was not to ever talk to me about Amway again. This started an email war where she said she didn't work for Amway, it was Quixstar. A quick internet search turned up the PRESS RELEASE from Amway saying they had become Quixstar. I did not take kindly to her lying to me. Things went downhill from there. Robin said that I was listening to a bunch of lies from "losers" on the internet ( I guess they like that word!). Even her husband wrote me and told me how wrong I was. I finally wrote to them, asked them what part of LEAVE ME ALONE didn't they understand, and then told them that any further communications from them would be going to the police as evidence of harassment. I can't believe that I have lost such a good friend, but I'm telling you: talking to her was like talking to nothing. She was into her pitch within about ten seconds of a conversation. It was sad, and I felt used. I regret that it had to be this way, but I think she was using our past friendship to try to hook me, and it just wasn't going to happen. Thank you for your page, and I hope many people read it. I will refer it whenever I can to people who may be roped into what amounts to a cult in my book. Thanks for telling your story!
Mon, 27 Dec 1999 Subject: A funny Amway Mad Lib for you Dear butt-ugly jock strap, You are so incredibly butt-ugly that I just can't believe it. You deserve to smell. I hope you always remember the words of the famous Fool's Gold Bill Clinton, who said: "stupid is as stupid does." Boy, I'll bet that old Bill Clinton could really teach you a thing or two! Here's a person who makes over 470,000.03 dollars every month. Do YOU make that much, you butt-ugly jock strap? If not, then you are obviously wasting my time. My upline dildo, who made -7.00 dollars last year from his Amway business alone, told me that nobody likes a moose. And that is exactly what you are, a great big moose. In closing, I would like to say that although I respect your right to sneeze your opinion, you obviously have as much intelligence as a chunk of belly button lint, and while I become fungoidal and hairy you will be serving me my head cheese and selling a herd of alpacas to me. I wish you success in whatever you do, and I of course bear you no ill will. idiotically, Cuthbert Blowhard (A fungoidal distributor) -- My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely.
Mon, 27 Dec 1999 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Hi Russell: Good for you!!!!Years ago My husband and I got sucked into amway, I still shudder at the effects that it had on our family. We were told to sell water filters in the Mt area of Calif. A place in which no one needed filters then we were told to sell MCI But it wasn't in the mt area yet. we sold about 100 memberships to MCI, until I received a threatening phone call from a Amway executive. "that if we did not quit selling MCI in the mt area, we would be at risk of losing our lives". I let the caller know that our upline was endorsing what we were selling. (yes I said lives not business). We immediately quit amway and moved out of the area. You failed to note mofia connections, why else would our lives be in danger??? Why am I in a amway web site my oldest son got sucked into amway, wanted mom to check things out on the internet for him. I hope you don't mind I copied your information and I am going to pass it on to him. Like your dad I am trying to remain neutral. Thanks for having the guts to write your findings.
Tue, 28 Dec 1999 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Hello Russell! I wanted to point out a couple of things from my own experience that should sway anyone who still has doubts about getting involved with Amway. First of all the people who are currently distributors in the business that have emailed you are quick to point out that you were talking to the BAD people and that they are associated with wonderful people in their organizations. When my husband and I got involved two-and-a-half years ago the people were indeed wonderful. I am a very outgoing person and loved meeting new people. We worshiped our upline as much because they seemed to be good people as because we were supposed to. We discussed EVERYTHING with them. However, I was never INTO it. My husband dragged me along to meet new prospects and I even went to a couple of seminars alone when he couldn't because he had Army Reserve drill. When he was offered a job as a full time Army Reserve Soldier, we discussed the ups and downs of the opportunity with our upline. These people were very good friends and mentors. Why is it then, that since we have ended our distributorship we have not heard a word from them? Not even so much as a call to see if we were still alive for the first couple of months and then our sponsor called to say hello and also revealed that he and his wife were no longer involved. Do these people have any idea what friendship really is? I called a family that we had sponsored after we quit (they had quit a few months before) and apologized, trying to save our friendship. She was her old self on the phone but I haven't heard from her since. My second bone to pick with distributors is the myth that you can spend a lot of time now building a business and then have the rest of your life to spend with family and friends. There is no guarantee that any of us will be here tomorrow, let alone in 2 to 5 years. We like to believe that we will grow old and our children will marry and have children of their own. But it only takes a matter of minutes to take that all away. What if you spent all of your time building a "better future" for your family only to have them get in a car accident and all die? I'm not trying to be morbid, it's just a sad fact of life. We're not invincible. There were many nights that my husband and I hurried home (a 5 or 6 hour drive) from seminars. Both of us were falling asleep. We could have killed ourselves or some innocent passerby on any of those nights. That is not what dreams are made of. Today, less than 6 months after we separated from Amway I am expecting our 3rd child and our marriage is on its way to being stronger than it has been in a long time. The new job that I spoke of is bringing in about twice what the old one did. We are both looking into starting our own businesses--mine, as a cake decorator and his as a cable design engineer subcontractor. We have money for the Y2K mess, should anything happen, in the bank. We have just celebrated one of the best Christmases ever and at Thanksgiving were able to buy a minivan without a trade in. Amway supporters tend to call people who do not succeed losers and will no doubt say that we did not succeed because we weren't both committed. I say that if it works for you, great! It didn't work for us and I wasn't willing to talk to my friends about something without telling them what it was. Yours is a good site and I enjoyed reading a lot of it. I have one question for you: Do you know how to reach a particular group? I want to try to sell some of our tapes back to them! It breaks my heart to throw it away after what we spent!!
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) CC: "Henderson Enterprises"
Oh goody, another made-up business name.
Hello, I am a satisfied and successful Quixtar Independent Business Owner (IBO), after reading your articles thoroughly I must convey that I will not flame you in any way for you comments (as you are entitled to your opinions and perceptions). However, I must submit to you that your analyses are predicated on lack of significant experience, a collection of facts gathered from others, and your interpretation of this information. As a Christian whose spiritual life is is at the center of everything that I do, I can say with conviction that suspicion and doubt are the products of forces that clearly beckon for your failure in life. Such ideas are not from those forces that have already endowed you with the seeds of greatness and position you from the perspective of abundance rather than from one of lack which is where I perceive most of these comments originating. You see, of course one would arrive at negative conclusions if faith is weak and one is unwilling to do anything about it. Faith is like a muscle, the more it is exercised, the stronger it gets and the easier it is to unlock that power in the spiritual world that enables one to prosper the way God intended. And the prosperity of the soul is FIRST before any kind of material prosperity. "What good is it to gain the whole world and lose your soul?" None whatsoever! This business works if it is worked properly! Sure, there are people that misrepresent anything that man has a hand at putting together. But, there are also those that maintain the highest levels of principles and ethics and genuinely have the very best of interests at heart. I would rather be affiliated with people of high character than to be a part of just any team. So, the team you're on has a great deal to do with the level of your success. Look at Jesus' disciples. He sponsored 12 and told them to go out and do the same, did He not? (2 Peter 2:2 - "And the things which thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou amongst faithful men, that they may be able to teach others also." The church was built the way. By recruiting others to BELIEVE in something good that the very foundation (personal and spiritual growth that enable spiritual prosperity followed by material prosperity by being an entrepreneur and calling the shots for you and your family and generations of your family to come). No one loses until he/she commits it in mind to lose. Everyone wants to win, yes, but everyone has not made the proper decision to win. You cannot decide on soul prosperity and have one leg dragging on the other side of the fence in sin. It just doesn't work like that. A very clear element and obvious omission in all the related Anti-Amway links was any reference to "principle-centered success." That is really a must with any reputable business venture designed to benefits the lives of people. Saturation has never been and will never be a problem in this business. Within the Britt Worldwide organization which happens to be the most successful and profitable, there are nearly 1 million distributors. Bill and Peggy Britt are the most successful leaders in the world of Amway for one very important reason. They are true visionaries and leaders who encourages prosperity of the soul first before any other form of prosperity in the world because it is an example that they live every day. It is up to the distributor how that growth process is done, whether they apply the Business Support Materials or not. Most people don't want to go anywhere, do anything, change anything, be anything, They just want to wake up one morning and there's money all over them. The so-called dollar and a dream (Lotto) mentality! It is ravings like the ones in the Anti-Amway articles that are devised to justify one's position of lack so that they and people like them feel OK about being a member of mediocrity. I'd rather lose at doing something great and be intimately involved in the lives of other people than to win at doing essentially nothing but being a part of the masses where there is vastly more negative in which to raise children. My children are constantly around people that are healthy, spiritual, and principle-centered people. Association brings about assimilation. And yes, we are assimilated, but that's good if that assimilation is due to involvement with people who are in life where you want to be (not just financially, but in all legs of life! If I never become a Diamond Direct in this business (and that is clearly not an option here), I will have still impacted my family and the lives of many, many people for generations to come. So, it is important that I succeed further so that the ripple effect is greater. One question every prospect must answer is: What size ripple do I want to make? Do I want to make a small splash in a small pond, or do I want to make a huge splash in an ocean of opportunity? That is what determines how many tapes, books, functions and other business support material in which one will invest. And any sponsor that is coercing their people to invest in these is misrepresenting the business. They should be encouraged, not forced. Whether you know it or not, your defamation site is doing incredible harm to society, magnitudes more harm than you perceive being inflicted by the Amway or Quixtar business models. For every leader that you affect by discouraging him or her to make a free will decision on the basis of there own experiences, strengths & weaknesses, you negatively impact another 10000 or men, women and kids because now the leader that they might have needed to move them on to success will not come along at the time they needed the most. Please reconsider your actions and get the full picture of what this business is all about. It is a business of creating vision , hope, and reward for people all around the world in a time when the rules of business and the economy are changing and JOBS are paying less for more of your precious time. Time is the most precious commodity. How we use it now will determine our lifestyle in the future. Remember, whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve. Anything less says that God's word is false. And we know that His word is Truth!
Wed, 29 Dec 1999 Subject: amway story would you believe that I was going to e-mail from my families e-mail address but was afraid that you might be really be amway perenoid huh!!! Thank you for posting your story, I have been humming and hawing about joining world wide( Who insist that they are not amway)a coworker of my husband (acutually someone above him) have been working with us for the past few months. I have gone to a few Meetings etc,etc spent about 50 dollars doing this i now think I got off easy.I always had a funny feeling about this would go listern to someone talk get excited almost join then think about it and realize it was THE SAME REHASHED THING THAT ALL THOSE TAPES SAY!!!! I have lost my best friend to these cult she joined last spring (and tried to get to come on board with she and her husband) They really went overboard and Anyway We hated her husband and my husband co-worker had already approached us needless to say our friendship was lost (she has since distroyed other friendships because of amway) I was until tonight still not sure something did not seem right a lot of the questions that you had were mine also.Thank god we did not join and because of your website will not be joining.I have sent your url to another friend and hopefully it will help her. And now I can concentrated on what I had planned to do last spring when this whole mess started- become a computer programmer THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS STORY NOW ALL I HAVE TO DO IS COME UP WITH A GOOD EXCUSE FOR MY WANNABE UPLINE AS TO WHY I AM NOT JOINING THIS "WONDERFUL"BUSINESS.ANY IDEAS?????
Fri, 31 Dec 1999 Subject: Re: amway story That's an easy one. Get a piece of paper. Write this on it: http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway Give it to your friend. That's the best excuse I can think of.
Sun, 02 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Was browsing the net and ran into your story. My Brother got involved in Amway back in the early 70's and is still involved struggling to build the business and losing money I'm sure by the cost you describe of all the meetings. I have heard enough of the plan and even once signed up to know what you say is true, there are a few succcess stories to keep the majority involved and to support the few. If these people would put the same amount of time and money into their own selves and maybe some personal business of there own that they enjoy, they might by surprised on their own success I'm going to print your paper, if it's OK and send it to my brother but I will probably be the looser and bad guy. Keep the Faith
Tue, 04 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Let's just say that in my search for an MLM business, I came across Amway. As a former of the Jehovah's Witness cult my anti-cult radar put me on defcon 9 and I ran in the opposite direction. Instinct is a wonderful thing! Thanks for a wonderful story. It's companies like that who give all of us a bad name. My sigfile is below with contact info. Keep Smiling!
Wed, 5 Jan 2000 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Loved it Loved it Loved it!! I am not anti-Amway. I just don't think it is for everyone. I do believe that 'they' are too misleading about the benefits that can be gained (or lost) by following 'The Plan' I was actually approached in a pet store with my wife at a time in my life when I was making less than $20,000/year and just realized I may lose my job. The tactic used really pissed me off in retrospect. After chit-chatting with a guy who was looking at the same cute puppy as us he asked what I did for a living and was I happy etc etc. After a few more probing questions he gave me his business card , Amway of course not mentioned, and asked if he could call me about a job opportunity. Of course I was delighted and my wife and I went home excited that this might be the break we were praying for. Well, after talking to him on the phone and setting up an 'interview' with him I was really getting excited. He invited my wife and I over for dinner, which did seem a little odd, but we went. Well needless to say we were surprised to see other people there and it didn't take long to realize what was going on. I bought into the hype, my wife didn't, but she did support me (God I love her). Long story short.. it lasted about 3 months and I was embarrassed every minute I was involved. Did not want to tell friends or family or even co-workers about it. Granted, that is not the way you succeed (in Amway), but I enjoy my social status thank you very much. Happy ending.. I got into the software industry. I make approx. $115,00/year and have plenty of time with my wife and 4 year old daughter and 2 year old twin sons. I hope people in Amway are proud of what they do and I hope that all their dreams come true. I just don't think it will happen to the new people only those who have convinced (brainwashed, duped, tricked, lied) others to join years ago and are now directs or diamonds or shrews or weasels or whatever it is they call themselves these days. You know, it really is fun to get this off my chest. Maybe I should create a web page. Maybe I really am anti-Amway. F 'em.
Sat, 08 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway page... Milberg Weiss Files Class Action Suit Against Amway Asia Pacific Limited SAN DIEGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 23, 1999--Milberg Weiss (http://www.milberg.com) today announced that a class action has been commenced on behalf of the holders of Amway Asia Pacific Ltd. (``Amway'') (``NYSE:AAP'') common stock against Amway and its directors arising out of defendants' efforts to complete a management-led buyout of Amway at a grossly inadequate and unfair price and to provide certain insiders and directors with preferential treatment at the expense of, and which is unfair to, the public shareholders. On November 15, 1999, Amway announced that its President Douglas DeVos, its Vice Chairman Richard DeVos, Jr. and its Chairman Stephen Van Andel together with New App Limited (``New App'') had submitted an offer to the Amway Board (which is controlled by Stephen Van Andel, Richard DeVos, Jr. and Douglas DeVos, (``Management Buyers'') who control approximately 85% of Amway's stock) to purchase the outstanding shares of Amway for $18.00 per share (the ``Acquisition''). In pursuing the unlawful plan to cash out Amway's public stockholders for grossly inadequate consideration, each of the defendants violated the applicable laws by directly breaching and/or aiding the other defendants' breaches of their fiduciary duties of loyalty, due care, independence and good faith and fair dealing. Instead of attempting to obtain the highest price reasonably available for Amway shareholders, the Individual Defendants spent substantial effort tailoring the structural terms of the Acquisition to meet the specific needs of the Management Buyers.
Sat, 8 Jan 2000 Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3) Powerful story! I am on my way out of Quixtar. Thank God for the internet!!! Are you and Jim doing okay now? i went to a major funstion in Detroit, from Ottawa, Canada. I couldn't believe that people actually drove this fsr for a meeting!! It was info on "The System" that put me over the edge. Thanks for your page! Mark
Ginny and "Jim" are presumably not doing very well at all, since she's me wife now. -- Russell
Sun, 9 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... I read your story. I don't usually submit any mail or feed-back. I found it to be quite amusing. I guess that from your perspective your experience with "Ted" and the Amway business is true. Your opinions on the operation of that business are quite distorted and potentially misleading. It seems to me that "Ted" was perhaps over-eager and your encounter with him, "Phil" and "Connie" showed how different you and they think. I find it astounding that you and others like you have unmasked the cult and scam side of the Amway business, yet the business world, and dozens of governments continue to not only allow it to operate but endorse as well as try to qualify to do business with the corporation, it's sister corporations, and their respective independant sales and distribution networks. Do you happen to work for Proctor & Gamble? Like Sydney Schwartz? How could this monster grow and operate for over 40 years, establish world-wide retail volume (annual) of over 7 billion dollars (US)? How is it that this debt-free entity rates the highest Dunn & Bradstreet ratings? How ever did they make it to # 22 on the Fortune 500 for privately owned companies? How is it that their sales and marketing plan, coupled with independant support systems, and the more-than competitively priced product lines (according to A.C. Nielsen) have resulted in producing the largest number of new millionaires in the US, second only to Microsoft. I mean, Microsoft is obviously a bad company with that anti-trust thing going against them. How is it that you have seen through all of that with your three week encounter? You'ld best round up all of your group and march back to the FTC and have them do what they should have done in '75-'79. Oh yeah. They declared that the Amway business was most definately not a pyramid sales scheme. To bad you weren't on the commission back then. They could have wrapped that four year deal up in three weeks. The nice thing about the internet is that is gives us all this information access. The not so nice thing about the internet is that anyone can display any form of information or misinformation they please. What is regulating you and your findings? With all your passion about spreading the truth about scams, schemes, and pyramids, you could have at least researched what the FTC defines as an MLM and discovered that they are legal. As to chain-letters, how does that apply to your link with Sydney Schwartz? For someone with college experience you could have done some better homework so we can shut Amway down. Only thing is all those annoying facts that seem blur what you have disovered. Maybe you should direct your attentions against illegal businesses, ones that start up, claim that they're "just like Amway, only better" and then distribute products that harm people, and even cause death. That may sound dramatic but it unfortunately is true. I lost a friend to a real scam that may not have had the intention of causing harm or death, but it nevertheless happened. At least the products that Amway distributes are unconditionally guaranteed and do have a 40 year track record. Too bad my friend didn't get involved in the Amway business, they'd at least be alive and knowing who my friend was, very successful and perhaps have seen a potential in me and invited me along. Another aquaintence of mine, my Junior High School vice-principal no longer needs to work and is very successful and very well-off because of the Amway business which he continues to build and help others achieve. And no, I am not involved in his business. I also noticed that over 90,000 people have visited your site, perhaps substantially more. I wonder what size of group that would be and what level you would have attained. And what kind of income that would be? Yes, hard work does create results and you certainly have that. Has the vehicle you've chosen rewarded that which you are after? I hope for you, sincerely, that you reaping the rewards from the seeds that you sow. I just pray that total strangers that visit your site, having had some renewed hope brought to them from someone building the business with integrity and ethics, don't have that hope stolen by you. Because, what are you offering? In closing, I do need to sincerely thank you. You have put the nail in a decision that I have made prior to coming back to your site for a second time. After my first visit and comparing it to my research, I have registered as both an Amway and as a Quixtar Independant Business Owner. At least I wasn't sponsored by you. I just came back to give the good news. I don't wish you any ill and I do hope you will be successful in what you do. I just hope that your "lark to amuse your family and friends" won't keep poor people poor, and hopeless people hopeless. At least it has given me a laugh, and judging by your twisted "facts" and misinformation I have decided to go in the right direction. I know for you that your experience was real and possibly "Ted" and friends acted truely as you say. I understand that it is your perspective. It is the truth for you and you are living your truth. Sincerely, without malice ***** Sun, 9 Jan 2000 Subject: Arguement #4. Independant Business Owner Hi it's me again. You might want to correct or retract your statements on this one. The reason. Well, I guess all the money that Proctor & Gamble have been ruled by a Federal court in Houston to pay to Amway (legal fees for Amway's defense) as a result of P & G's attacks on Amway in attempts to discredit them. Amway may end up with substantially more damages being paid to them as a result of the Sydney Schwartz scam, etc. You see, the law firm that P & G hired to save Mr. Schwartz as being connected to P & G despite the financial and documentation support he received from them to run his defunked site is even being sued. I'd hate to see that happen to you. Check out how an Application into the Amway business reads. One is considered to be an Independant Business Owner with a contractual affiliation with the Amway Corporation. Upon registering you will receive an identity card stating this fact with a (gasp) business licence number. Anyone who decides to declare a company name, as in a sole proprietorship, owns a company. From there it may eventually be incorporated. Many Directs and above have in fact, incorporated. "Ted"'s company "Golden Zephyr Enterprises" is a real company. He may or may not have registered his company name. He simply needs to operate as a sole proprietorship.
Mon, 10 Jan 2000 Subject: finished your amway story... Good afternoon. Thank God I came across your site!!!!! I am about to join Quixstar, but now am thinking twice about the whole thing and am probally going to say no. Here is my story. Although I know you get many responses, I would appreciate your comments. Please don't publish this on the net. Thank you. I too was approached by a "long lost friend" who seemed to have something going on. His attitude and knowledge were quite impressive regarding computers and E Commerce. He called me up one day and said that he was involved in E Commerce and that it was the way to the future! Wow, it sounded awesome. He talked for about a half hour about E Commerce then proceeded to show me his Quixstar web site. I agreed to attend a seminar regarding Quixstar and getting started toward becoming an IBO. At the meeting I met his uplink direct and diamond and was even more interested about the business- although still being somewhat skeptical about the connection between Amway and Quixstar. His direct called me the next day and said he enjoyed meeting me, called me " a sharp guy who sounds like he wants to make some money" and said to pick up some tapes from my sponsor. However, somehow my gut told me that this guy was a little too slick. I listened to the material and read a few books. When I asked about the pyramid structure, I was told two things: Pyramids can only exist if two things are true. One, massive product must be pushed to the consumer and two, the guy at the top is making more money than you- both of which are untrue with Amway and Quixstar- so I am told? Somehow, the second half doesn't seem correct. Am I missing something here? Also, my sponsor asked me why would big name companies (microsoft and IBM) would put their name on Amway if it was a scam. Am I missing something here? So, as it stands now, they want me to join asap and make a list of 15 names. When I make the phone call tonight to say no, I 'm afraid this will end our friendship. Thanks for listening to a confused guy. All the best.
Tue, 11 Jan 2000 Subject: Subject: Re: finished your amway story... Mark, I think both of your questions have been answered on my frequent arguments page. "Powley, Mark" wrote: > > When I asked about the > pyramid structure, I was told two things: Pyramids can only exist if two > things are true. One, massive product must be pushed to the consumer and > two, the guy at the top is making more money than you- both of which are > untrue with Amway and Quixstar- so I am told? Somehow, the second half > doesn't seem correct. Good point, and my answer is: http://www.best.com/~cobra/amway/tpoa/argument/index.html#noscam > Am I missing something here? Also, my sponsor asked me > why would big name companies (microsoft and IBM) would put their name on > Amway if it was a scam. Am I missing something here? Yes: http://www.best.com/~cobra/amway/tpoa/argument/argument.html#partners And I want to add to that argument, that Microsoft and IBM should in no way be construed to endorse Amway. Amway's claim that they are supported by MS and IBM simply stems from the fact that their Quixtar website was developed using software that was WRITTEN by those companies. Don't be fooled.
Mon, 10 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wow, I am so sorry that all that happened to you. It's sad that so many people get caught up in scams like that. Thank you for taking so much time in putting together a great informative web page like that for everyone to read. My best friend sent it to me, saying that I just had to read it. I had known some people who used to "sell" amway. I guess a better name for it would be "scamway". Needless to say they used to try to get me to do that. I used to just tell them, no thanks I have a real job. All they sell is a bunch of over priced Wal Mart stuff. Well I guess that's all. Good luck in spreading the news to people. I will keep this page bookmarked in case I need to print it out for any ding dong that I know that might be interested in "scamway".
Thu, 13 Jan 2000 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Hi - let's have more updates!
Fri, 14 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Good reading! Thanks. I was well aware of these cult practices. I have an Amway guy who I can see is going to put the 'sales pitch' on me in a couple more emails. Right now, he thinks he is leading me on to the big buck$. I am going to play the naive rube, for a while and then send him to your website!
Sat, 15 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway page... I was an Amway distributor from March 1999 to October 1999. I wish I never herd of "The Business" I conceder my self to be an intelligent person my I.Q. is above average I have degrees from colleges and am a self taught Network Engineer. I had heard of the Amway Corp all my life. I laughed at family that tried it, one for 2 years and people in my family never just try it we dive in head first and give it 100%. This family member lost about $10,000 back in the '70s do to an upline embezzling their money. So I would have never been interested in "the business" but back in May1999. I was approached by a person who told me of a way I could get rich via the internet. That got my attention. He invited himself over and showed me this plan. It sounded pretty good. This was a very calculated strategy of sucking me in, I studied the information and signed up. The calculated strategy a very deceptive one, and mind control was very much a part of that strategy. I saw through the mind control tactics right away. The meetings "I had to attend if I wanted to succeed", the tons of tapes I needed to buy and listen too constantly. "brainwash material" oh well I new what it was, but I figured if I knew what it was it couldn't hurt me. WRONG! I don't care how strong of a person you are a CULT can have some affect on you. So if you have fallen for this CULT don't feel bad I did I know Doctors, Lawyers, etc.. They were sucked in as well. I decided to do what they said and see if it produced the money. So I gave it 100% following the direction of my upline the tools and travel expenses, not including the over priced products. I spent in 6 months over $9,000 dollars. Oh and the over priced products, I was told I needed to do 100PV a month. Spend around $200.00 a month "first lie" I never spent less than $250.00 some times $300.00 to achieve this 100PV. I received some checks for performance bonus total around $200.00, and I worked my behind off for these months missed my family and so on. Well the web-site was scheduled for 9/1/99 there were going to be all of these big name online stores that we were going to receive a discount and get PV from . September rolled around the web site didn't deliver what was promised. That was it for me I had had all of the hype I could stand. and that was what it was a bunch of hype. And there are still people that I know that are sucked in to this CULT and they are loosing their money, they are loosing their time, and they are loosing their selves because as with any CULT they change you and you think it is for the better. But look back at this page and tell me how am I better. I was a good person before I got in it I'm a good person since I got out of it but I'm out thousands of dollars and priceless time with my family that I love very much. And I was lucky I learned fairly quick some people have been in it for decades and they are still a sleep. "for a long time after leaving their system I had a hard time shaking all of their programming, and that's what it is MIND PROGRAMMING." So people if your considiring getting in don't and if your in wake up.
Mon, 17 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway page... Hi there ... I recently was approached by Amway with a new name. It is called "Quixtar.com". I believe they are doing the same scam but with a different name. Guess I would be grateful if you could add this bit of information to the web site. Mon, 17 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway page... Sorry just realized you were talking about Quixtar.com ,,,,,
Tue, 18 Jan 2000 Subject: YourAmwaystory(part3) I just read your story, and I must say " well done" and thank you for sharing the information. And now let me share with you. The methods that you describe Amway using ARE SPREADING EVERYWHERE. This is my opinion. It is as if there is an evil force at work. Lies, deception, greed,paranoia. I was once in a religious cult. It took alot for me to throw on the brakes and get the hell out once I realized that they wanted my soul. Later, I was exposed to Amway. I felt the same uneasy feeling. That old wicked force was after my soul again. I fled after one meeting with those people. And the list of others is long..... Thanks to the internet these experiences can be shared. Each of us is unique. Each of us has a heart, a mind, a soul, and a conscience which we are intended to use. It angers me to be imposed upon. Unless we stand up and say " NO !" these cultists would steal our souls. I do not coerce people to action. I believe that individuals can have a personal relationship with God through his Son who had a human existance and now and forever more a divine one. This is my opinion. What is remarkable is reading all the unsolicited testamonies from ex-cultists, arrived at independantly and often without financial gain as a motive. How truly refreshing! Still, we all have to make a living and must struggle to find our place. God bless,
Wed, 19 Jan 2000 Subject: My reply to your Amway page hi russell, to tell you the truth i am really impressed the way you put this page together. it's perfectly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about and thats ok with me. this webpage just points out how immature, simple-minded and rude you and everyone else who supports your page. i have never heard an amway distributor say anything about "work sucks," or "you must be a loser if you work." hey you do what you want to do. big deal. amway is merely suggesting an alternative to the monotonous tone of years in school saying, "you must go to college to get an education to get a decent job." and you say the books and tapes cost a lot of money? lets say you want to be a doctor, they make good money, right? each set of books will run you upwards of $500 per semester, give or take a few dollars. and how many semesters do you take? 10 or more....hmmmm interesting. then each year of college is $20,000. perfect, right when you want to start a career, you owe someone upwards of $100,000. that seems like a pretty good start to me. besides, you are a computer science major, or whatever, right? did you take classes for that? did you buy books for that? did you buy a computer for that? all business expenses, just like amway books and tapes. have you heard of business write-offs? (you know, taxes?) every penny spent on tapes, books, functions, gas (when going to meetings), and videos you can use as a business write-off. but that probably doesn't apply to you anyway. and you say that all the money from the tapes and books go to the top distributors? i think they deserve it because they have spent a whole lot of time putting up with rude, simple-minded, egotistical people like you. oh, it gets better. lets say you are a doctor (finally). do you want a family? (by the way, a close family is a one of the top focuses in amway. when did bill gates ever say anything about a family being together?) when will you have time to see them? when will you have time to spend the money? what i'm trying to say is, if you're in this just to make money, and you think money will come to you for little or nothing at all, just keep playing that lottery...you might win. on second thought, try working your way up a CORPORATE LADDER, or should i say a corporate pyramid. if its so easy to make money that way, i want you to overthrow bill gates and go on tv and say something to me and the rest of amway. say anything you like. but seriously, i want to talk to you about how we approach people. we don't HATE people who don't want to join. and if they hate us, big deal. now they are mad at nothing, which is pretty funny because alot of people get mad at nothing and they lash out like some crazed idiot on the internet or something. lots of people have turned me down. but guess what, i have the balls to not let business get in the way of a friendship. to be honest, i would trade all the money in the world to know that i still have all my friends and i could still make friends. we want to provide people with a new opportunity. as you can see clearly that amway spends less than $0.01 in advertising, all the distributors do all the work. what if pepsi stopped advertising and had its people go around advertising it for free? not alot of people would advertise for free so no one would buy it so pepsi would go bankrupt. quick question, how do successful people succeed? what do they do so differently? well, if you are religious, then this quote will help (from the bible), "man without vision shall perish" did michael jordan dream of becoming an nba champion? did bill gates dream of making the best (monopolistic) computer software? did michael jackson dream of becoming a pop superstar? did you ever dream of becoming a rude, selfish, insecure computer science major putting anyone and everyone down because they don't think like you? who's the monster here? i'm not saying this will work for everybody and that everybody must "join or DIE!" we don't think like that. we simply use your vision to your advantage. if your vision is to work everyday at a job that you love, go for it! here is a thought; if you love your job so much, then go in one day and say, "from now on, i will work for free because i'm doing something that i love and doing something for love doesn't require any money." anything i missed, just point it out to me. try and make me look dumb. just go to a level way below compassion and friendship and make fun of anything you don't like. what a perfect life you must have.
Wed, 19 Jan 2000 Subject: Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:04:46 -0700 possible all the things I was promised. My upline did not include rich people either. The information and figures you give are very realistic. We had a similar experience but I walked out in a friendly manner from that organization. If I had had the information you found when I was there, I would have confronted them with it. Since I did not, I just stopped my association with them. Best of luck.
Thu, 20 Jan 2000 Subject: Your MLM Story Russell, I read with great interest your journal of your "narrow escape" from the jaws of MLM. I thought that it was well written, and that it rang clearly of the truth. I am a computer programmer too (have been for near 30 years) and I can easily see myself in your writings - I would have had similar vulnerabilities, skepticisms, and mild outrage. Most importantly, I also would have "followed the money" to determine how every member of the MLM community added value. My personal and business affairs have taught me that, in the long run, you are only compensated for adding genuine value. If the high level "uplines" are well compensated, and they are producing nothing of tangible value, they it is axiomatic that they are producing something else. The sole product of a MLM is a pyramid. The uplines are producing fodder for the pyramid. Your comments about the personalities involved are very important. All organizations - religions, political parties, soccer teams, and companies - have a group personality or soul. A strong leader will clearly imrint his personality, good or bad, on the group. Healthy organizations give off good vibes. Ask approriate questions - of as many individuals as possible - and observe carefully. Don't waste your time with companies or anyone else who offends your principles. Give your business, time, and friendship instead to persons who you respect and who you feel will appreciate you. I have some knowledge of other MLM organizations. They interested me academically, so I asked, over a long period of time, many of the same questions you did. Universally the answers were evasive. MLM's have one axiom - you're either with us - with blind unquestioning loyalty - or you're against us. All other rules derive therefrom. I am printing your essays for my college-age children. I think they will appreciate your story and benefit from its wisdom. Good luck in your career, fellow programmer. My parting advice - choose your programming jobs and assignments as carefully as you considered this MLM. Follow your basic senses of honesty and fairness and you will do well.
Fri, 21 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thanks for the information ... I am in the process of looking at Amway. Your effort has made a difference !
Fri, 21 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thanks fro taking the time to write you story and make it available. My sister and her husband have been amwaied for some time now. The rest of my family and I hear less and less from them as time goes on. I'll send my sister your web page link in hopes that they will read it. (Maybe they will hate me for it.) Thanks again.
Sat, 22 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) great job. Amway ran me through the mill back in the early eighties. I lost more money, looked like a complete ass. Fed all those fake dreams to people who could not afford the beating they were taking. I was in the Fred Harties line, down from Destar Yeager.
Sat, 22 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Greetings, Now you don't know me, but THANK-YOU!!!!!! I am an ex Amway Distribuator, and within 3 months of joining, my wife files for a divorce and tries to cut me off from seeing my daughter. In a court case that lasted 18 months, my divorce was final, and I had joint custody of my daughter. My upline had been helping us put our marriage back together, cut my throat and stabbed me in the back and took her side in the divorce. Over the last four years I am have been thinking about Amway, and it's resemblance to a cult!!!! I am glad I am not alone in this thinking. I am trying to get sole custody of my daughter, because my wife does not have time for her and drags her to meetings, all over the US. My daughter hates it. Anyway Thanks and keep up the website ps sorry for the mis-spelling.
Sun, 23 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... i wish we can banish those amway buggers from the face of this earth....i got pulled into a third introductory (yes, third !) meeting last week...this one was very cult like...loud fast moving tamil music & a cult pair as a leader ! Conning all those poor couples ! a recent cartoon i saw by a local artist shows an alien landing on earth and asking a lady on earth " take me to your leader ! "...and she promptly takes the martian to a amway meeting ! How true ! the brainwashing & all that !
Mon, 24 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Yes, I acutally read the whole thing. Amway reps have been pursuing me for about two months now. I finally met with one. The scary thing was, and after reading your story I realized, the way I was propositioned followed your story to the word. It was like reading what happened to me, that all these guys are robots. Thanks you so much for your effort on this story because it saved me. It saved me from wasting money, time, changing my life in a way I wouldn't want, and well, losing sight of my dreams and endeavors. Keep up the good work! Thanks again.
Tue, 25 Jan 2000 Subject: Amway Hi Russell, I am an Amway Distributor and I would like to RECRUIT YOU!!!...(Just kidding) My name is Joe Medina and I, like yourself, am a Computer Programmer/Analyst. I live in Nebraska (Where in the hell is that at?) but I am originally from Puerto Rico. I work for Mid-Plains Community College as a Senior Software Technician. Well to make a long story short, I was approached by an Amway distributor and to say the least I am a VERY skeptical person when It comes to parting with my money since It's so hard to make ends meet. I am married and I have 4 children to support and I am not about to give my money away. Well I found out this person was an Amway distributor by accident since she never mentioned this to us (small town, word gets around fast). She only said that she knew of a "Very Good Business Proposition for us" since I have always tried to start my own business and I do run a small Computer Consulting business in Nebraska (Computer Services) aside from my full time job at the college. Well this person happens to be a good friend of my wife and my wife wanted for us to join. I told my wife that before I joined any type of MLM business I would like to research the info on the internet (Thank God that I did this), while doing the search I stumbled onto your pages about Amway. I want to thank you and Ginny for putting your experiences on the internet for people like myself to research and use as ammo against "THE CULT". By the way my wife's name is Ginny, we are both computer programmers, coincidence? It's starting to feel like an episode of Sliders. I honestly feel that maybe a motion picture could be made out of these experiences and call it the "Amway Cult Project." Or may be "The Cult" or "The Deceivers", hell pick a title synonymous with insanity and it will probably fit perfectly. The only difference would be that these experiences actually took place and are not fictitious. Well thanks again me and my wife are thankful for helping us avoid a catastrophe. :-)
Tue, 25 Jan 2000 Subject: Hi there could I interest yyou in a FANTASTIC Biz opportunity?...:):):) Hi guy, Im a soon to be ex- amastooge and was looking at different sites re: amway and wanted to see what you had to say..but the "amway page" isn't there...did you get back in and drink the kool aid or what?
Tue, 25 Jan 2000 Subject: Re: Hi there could I interest yyou in a FANTASTIC Biz Oh yeah. I changed my mind. I love Amway now, it's great. Say, YOU sound like a sharp individual... Just kidding :) Actually my Amway site is mirrored at http://www.best.com/~cobra/amway/tpoa/amway.html, as well as the current address, which is www.apollowebworks.com/amway.
Thu, 27 Jan 2000 Subject: Re: Hi there could I interest yyou in a FANTASTIC Biz opportunity?...:):):) Hi Russell Well maybe a little sharper than I was...thats the worst part of this whole schtick, that I was vulnerable to its inducements. And I'am no young kid in college I'm 45 and have made a decent living in trading option contracts on the street...not a place to find the terminally gullible at least they don't last long. Yet they hooked me like any trout and I was sucked in for almost 6mo's...I have about a grand worth of robot rally tickets for next weekend that are going to get refunded (they don't know that yet...) And I got a real mean laywer that has a family member that has been gang banged by the "system" and so I think at least some of these creeps are gonna be in for a rough day next week. I just wanted to say thanks for the page it was stuff like yours that broke thru the "Borg" Biz fog...Have you ever recieved any type of crap from the corp? (other than the ditherings of the "drones") In deciding how to go about this, providing my righteous indignation doesen't go "dixie" on me, How far to go in operation "get some back" and the how to go about it, I know I should leave this to the law guy, but somehow I don't think I will feel personally complete till I get to make some of these clowns feel like they been ate by a coyote and shit off a cliff...we'll see.
Thu, 27 Jan 2000 Subject: finished your amway story... You're a computer nerd? Shoot dude, you sound more like a writer ;) I thoroughly enjoyed your story. I have my own story, except I had something in my back pocket when I was approached - my father's story. My father is the president of a national corporation and makes all the money that Amwayites are promised and dream about. But, his wealth doesn't consume his life, instead my parents lead a modest Christian life. I knew about Amway and from my father's preachings knew the evils of it. Unfortunately, people are sheep, and people want the dream that Amway promises. I'm glad you took the initiative to make such a page, maybe it'll save a few people from wasting their lives. Yes, 'Phil' does sound like a cult leader, armed with kool-aid. That last chapter gripped me, the feeling in my gut was mutual to yours. (Well expressed writing.) I too am a computer nerd, and I succeed at life. My job doesn't rule my life (usually). You know how it goes with computers. Thanks for the evening of reading, I enjoyed it and plan to share it with others as well.
Thu, 27 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Hi Russell Nice page but some of what you said is not true, but most is. I was an Amway Distributor for about four years and had a downline of up to six. Of course, it all fell apart and I made very little money. In fact, the biggest income was the tax deductions. There's one big chunk missing from your story, what I call the dark side. Where do you think the mony from the tapes, books and functions goes? Especially the functions. I went to two at $120 US per head. The room was filled with about 3,000 people. That's a lot of money - where does it go?
Thu, 27 Jan 2000 Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story... I do know. You must not have read part 2 of my story. 80% of the diamond and emerald income is made up of "system" income, NOT product sales. They claim that the purpose of the tools is to help your Amway business, but in reality it's the opposite: the purpose of Amway businesses is to enable the sale of tools. This is how the real money gets made. I'll take functions for 400, Alex. :)
Fri, 28 Jan 2000 Subject: amway I can't access your amway page, I would like to read what you have to say.
Sat, 29 Jan 2000 Subject: Amway Hey Russell, I got offered a "great deal" with Amway this evening, and am scheduled for my another meeting on Sunday. I knew something was wrong when I heard the name "Amway" (they mentioned it at my first meeting, oops...) but thanks for the website. Let me tell you, it is really spooky how close my meeting tonight is with what you described in the beginning. The little business package that they gave me said they had "been approved by the FTC", which isn't quite the same as being declared "not a pyramid scheme", but maybe it's close enough for them? Maybe. Thanks for the info, it's definitely saved me a bit of money. Thanks again
Sat, 29 Jan 2000 Subject: Your Amway page... I checked out your site. I noticed you were having trouble with your service provider/hosting. I have "stumbled" on an EXPLOSIVE INTERNET OPPORTUNITY" and I think its something that might interest you, please check it out and call me if you have questions... [OBNOXIOUS SELF-PROMOTION DELETED] [BOOT TO THE HEAD]
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thanks You helped me make up my mind and probably saved me a small fortune in the process. A very useful and informative site.
Sun, 30 Jan 2000 Subject: fbi files about the Amway corporation: get 'em and post'em if you GET THE FBI FILES ON AMWAY CORPORATION, AND THEN POST THEM ON THE WEB! You can also modify this letter to get the FBI files on any other corporations, colleges and universities, associations, or other organizations. This particular letter only gets you files from Headquarters!!!!!!. To get the files from Field Offices, youıll need to write directly to the Field Office. Addresses of Field Offices are listed at http://www.fbi.gov specifically at http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fobycity.htm and the overseas field (LEGAT) offices are listed at: http://www.fbi.gov/contact/legat/legat.htm To request LEGAT files, you write to FBI HQ. PS: IF THEY SAY THERE IS NO FILE, APPEAL AND TELL THEM THAT THEY MUST SEARCH CROSS REFERENCES ONLY. THIS IS ***VERY*** IMPORTANT. YOUR ADDRESS TODAYıS DATE Federal Bureau of Investigation Attn: Freedom of Information - Privacy Act Unit Office of Public and Congressional Affairs 935 Pennsylvania Avenue N.W. Washington, DC 20535 USA Gentlemen: This is a request for records under the Freedom of Information Act concerning AMWAY or AMWAY CORPORATION I request a copy of all records about this corporate entity which are at the FBI. This includes (but is not limited to) documents, reports, memoranda, letters, bulkies, ELSUR (electronic surveillance) records and indices, Official and Confidential files, Personal and Confidential Files, electronic files, database references, "do not file" files, and other miscellaneous files and index citations relating to the subject in other files (i.e. "see also" references). I would like the ELSUR indices searched. In terms of which indices to search, please interpret this request broadly. Please search your central general indices and not just the more recent computer indices. PLEASE SEND ME ALL MAIN FILES AND CROSS-REFERENCES, AND THE SEARCH SLIP. I WANT ALL CROSS REFERENCES. FOIA regulations provide that if some material is properly exempt from mandatory disclosure, all segregable portions must be released. If the requested material is released with deletions, I ask that each deletion be marked to indicate the exemption(s) being claimed to authorize each particular withholding. Also, I ask that your agency exercise its discretion to release records which may be technically exempt, but where withholding serves no important public interest. I agree to pay reasonable costs, if necessary, associated with search and reproduction of the requested records up to a maximum of $25 without my further permission. Please notify me of the fee. MENTION HERE IF YOU ARE A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL, A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MEDIA, AN EDUCATOR, OR A COMMERCIAL ENTITY. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, YOUR NAME YOUR PHONE NUMBER Note: This does not constitute legal advice. Do not rely on this letter for legal purposes. Consult an attorney if you have any legal questions pertaining to your own specific situation. This form letter provided for reference purposes only.
Wed, 2 Feb 2000 Subject: your amway page I found your page at the www.best.com/~cobra/amway/tpoa mirror. Very, very nice work. I was just out of college, summer of '94, living in my sister's basement while I tried to figure out what I wanted to do with life, when a guy I'd met in radio shack (sound familiar?) tracked me down and said he had a business opportunity that would work for me. I said point-blank: "I'll do honest work for an honest wage--but I won't work for commission." He assured me that it was hourly work, with set wages. Of course, he was lying. My curiousity grew as I waited the two days for the meeting, but it didn't occur to me that it was Amway until it was too late. I saw the planners, the glassy-eyed look. After the presentation, they singled me out. "I can see you weren't impressed by our presentation. Why?" "Money," I said. "You all seem to think that money can fix all of your problems, and that it's the end-all be-all of human existence. Money isn't like that at all. It's a tool. And me, I don't care that much for money." Their faces changed, and I was quickly excused. Later, they made a half-hearted attempt to re-recruit me, but I told them to jump, and they accepted the answer. Turns out that without greed, they have no foothold on getting a person... You're a brave man to oppose a group like Amway. While they haven't resorted to the out-and-out evil tactics of Scientology, I certainly don't put it past them. I've been confronted by people wanting me on their downline four times now, and I've lost a friend over her involvement with an Amway-like MLM (environmental products). I gave her a 30-minute sermon, told her she was "smarter than this! You can _see_ why it can't work," and at the end, paid for the meal they had offered to buy us because I didn't want to be beholden to her. I got a letter from her a year later, while I was on a business trip. My wife read it, said it was pure venom, and I burned it unread. I try to remember that friend in a good light, because I'll likely never hear from her again. I've gotten increasingly hostile to the Amway peddlers. While I used to be polite, I generally now greet them with a simple "go fuck yourself." You can leave my name on this: Jeremy Anderson You can leave my email address, in this form: patowic at jurai dot net You can leave my home page: http://www.jurai.net/~patowic Bravo, Russell. Your page just may help someone avoid Amway, or the other MLMs. I'm sorry to say the link from your homepage appears to be down, though. It appears Apache is not running on it. Keep fighting the good fight.
Wed, 2 Feb 2000 Subject: melaleuca Do you know anything aabout melaleuca , which is another mlmcompany posing competition for Amway
Thu, 03 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: melaleuca I don't think much about other MLMs, but I do have a general answer at the FAQ page.
Wed, 02 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Russel, I was intrigued by your story. I signed up in Amway/Quixtar last summer and was really excited about the opportunity. My husband was skeptical and saw the truth that I didn't see at the time. He realized we'd pay twice as much buying from Amway than our wholesale club so that's what turned him against the business. He said they're deceptive about saving money and he wouldn't tell others they're saving money when they really wouldn't. But he said I could try to make money at it if I wanted. But now looking at the many opinions about Amway I realize they brainwash people into thinking they can get rich if they plug into the system. My sponsor lives in Florida and we've been good friends for years. I think they are getting discouraged because Frank got a job selling cars when before he quit working fulltime to do the business .Anyway, I spent over $900 and got a PV check of $11.19 since I've been in. Pretty pathetic! It's a shame that they (Amway) gets away with making so much money off people like me. All I've heard is negative things whenever I asked friends who have been in it before. I appreciate your story in hopes others will see what they're getting into. I wished I had found these various opinions before I spent all that money!
Sat, 5 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Russell Just finished your Amway story. Only heard about it because the local newspaper made reference to internet sites that were less than complimentary towards Amway. The story was in relation to Rich DeVos and his son Rick who are down in NZ at the moment watching the America's Cup racing on board their obscenely expensive 175 ft super yatch, appropriately called 'Imagine'. Just briefly I was involved in Amway like yourself for several months and everything you say is spot on. The very questions you asked yourself were the same ones I grappled with. The last straw for me was the realisation that I was alienating everyone I knew because of Amway. The only people Amway people know are other Amway people. The only thing they talk about is the 'bizzo', what ever happened to shooting the breeze? Anyway. you have probably made more than an impact that Phil thought would ever thought possible through your story on the Net. All the best with whatever business venture you are now into given that its several years since you wrote your story. Kind regards
Sun, 6 Feb 2000 Subject: Amway Dear sir, I just wanted to thank you for the information on your "Peril's of Amway" page. A close friend of mine was approached independently by two "Quixtar" members in the space of a week, and we both became interested at the possibilities that the organization allegedly provided. We are both college students, and the money and flexibility of time that the Quixtar/Amway literature describes sounded quite appealing. We flirted with the idea for a week or two, meeting one-on-one with the Quixtar/Amway people, until last night when we attended a meeting held largely for our benefit at one of the gentlemen's home. By the end of the meeting, I admit that my friend and I were rather excited at our prospects in this organization. But after the meeting (fortunately we didn't officially sign on yet), I decided to do some last minute research on the web. I had attempted to research Quixtar before, but up until the meeting, the name Amway was never mentioned in either the materials OR the dialogues. When I arrived at your site (and, to a lesser degree other similar sites), I found much to disturb me about the organization that my friend and I have found ourselves on the cusp of. I just wanted to write a quick note of thanks for helping us to understand what is really going on in that organization!
Tue, 08 Feb 2000 Subject: Amway perils Dear Russell, I read all of your story. Very compelling stuff. I did not have time to look at any of the mail you have received as a result of this story. I imagine that there are very few letters that are "undecided" about Amway. I do intend to look at them soon. I write to you because my sister and her husband are Amway distributors. Their "business" (we have never heard what name this business has), has been the topic of a number of family discussions and outright fights. Needless to say, my sister and her husband fall into the same category as "Ted" in your stories; blind to facts, dazzled by tales of riches, oblivious to how much money they are spending on an unacheivable dream. I have asked my brother-in-law a number of times if they are even making any money. Every time I get the same vague, subject changing answers you appear to have received. I know that with all the money they have spent on this "money saving and money making" venture, they are far worse off than if they had never gotten involved. I have heard my brother-in-law mention the name John Sestina numerous times, as you did. I agree, the folks who are "diamond" make their money by selling tapes, books and seminars. I plan on using your material as ammunition to convince them of the hopeless future that awaits them as Amway business owners. You may still consider yourself as a "Lone Ranger" if this works. Even if it doesn't, I want to thank you for taking the time to put this together. I have tried logic and reason, as have others in my family, but none of that has changed their position. Perhaps a story from someone else will at least open some eyes, and allow some real dialogue to take place. You may or may not be aware of a new website Amway has come up with. It is called quixtar.com. It is the same old Amway crap, along with numerous pitches to "start your own business". It's just a new way to sell the same idea. Unfortunately, my brother-in-law sees this as an entirely new business (it's amazing how effective the brainwashing from Amway is). Now instead of offending friends or strangers in person by trying to sell this stuff, they can annoy the whole of the Internet. Great idea, huh... Once again, thank you for your efforts. I hope you have been able to pursue your goal of writing computer games, or that you are at least happy with what you are doing in life. Selling Amway is no way to live a satisfying life!
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Dear Sir, My sister has recently been contacted by some members of Amway. I am not sure what level of contact she has had with them but I know she has spoken with them. Frankly, I am certain that the company is based upon fraud and deceit, however, I want to make sure that I can explain to her what it is that the company does. In other words, I want to convey to her what it is that Amway does that hurts people. If you could please respond with a simple explanation. I have read a number of articles on the internet but most of the have been long winded and emotionally charge attacks on the company.
Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Hi Ron, I enjoyed your page after my own recent experience with Amway. (I paid for the kit but didn't end up signing on the dotted line.) I thought your story really shows the emotional side of the whole experience. Well done. Thankyou
Fri, 11 Feb 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Fascinating story. I've seen it, lived it, still paying for it($4000 debt), still trying to get my spouse out of it. I think certain personalities are very susceptible to the AMO tactics and it's a lot harder for them to see the truth, if you can even get them to look at it in the first place. Please don't let the Amway Corp. scare you off the internet with their tactics. How about an update? A Fellow Central Texan
Sat, 12 Feb 2000 Subject: Welcome back, Perils of Amway. Mr. & Friends: Congratulations on the return of your website! Frankly, I am extremely envious that you could achieve an understanding at a young age that took me 25 years of painful personal experience and observation of close relatives to attain. And, you had the guts to set up a website to help combat the anti-mind empire. But what really makes me sick is your brilliantly clever, concise, logical expression of your wisdom. I like to consider myself a persuasive writer, and an incisive, logical observer; but here's a mere kid (you) who deftly and simply blows holes right through all of Ambot idiological armor with but few lines of logical observations. I'm just glad we're on the same side of the argument! I do look forward to reading current mail postings on your website. You may want to update the e-mail prompts on your site, so that people will direct their messges to your new address. Warmest Regards,
Sat, 12 Feb 2000 Subject: curious about "Big Planet" & iPhone Hi Russel: I bumped into your page getting search engine results on 'cults'. I just went to a Big Planet/iPhone meeting. The logic of your Amway intro page is where my thoughts were going about Big Planet (NuSkin) and iPhone. Just curious, do you have any first-hand experience with these BP folks? Are all Pyramids the same? I have a "friend" who swears by them, but I'm a skeptic, and as I mentioned, my thoughts were going where your intro. page "went". Thanks in advance,
Sun, 13 Feb 2000 Subject: Part 1: Amway is your friend. Hello Mr.Glasser, I surfed on your Amway page and well, it strikes a chord with me. I was doing some research on this stuff, because a friend recently got involved with it and so far nothing I tried, has dampened his enthusiasm about the whole scheme.. (I suppose you would have heard of the recent incarnation of Amway called Quixtar.) Anyway, do keep up the good work on the web-site.
Mon, 14 Feb 2000 Subject: A new take on AMWAY!!!!! About 5 months ago I was introduced to a fellow at a friend's birthday party for his son. This person claimed to be involved in the beginnings of a new internet company[ fellow partners included Microsoft, IBM and MCI( Hmmmm sound familiar?)] yet he made no mention of the name of this company. It was only through our friends( the hosts of the aforementioned party) that this was just another take on *AMWAY*. Recently I conceeded to have this gentleman over to discuss this "business". After a 90 minute talk,during which he disclosed it was associated with Amway within the first 20 minutes, he left with a handshake and deposited a canvas briefcase filled with product( I was told I cold use the product too! ) and 2 cassettes and a video upon my couch. Much of what you say throughout your site is true to form with this scheme. The meetings, at houses and hotels, signing up recruits and your upline. ALL bunk! This company is called QUIXTAR( see www.quixtar.com ) and it is trying to get away from Quixtar/Amway and just use Quixtar as Amway(American Way as I was told it to mean) has such bad connotations associated with it. Also the upline organization is WWDB( WorldWide Dream Builders ). I did not for even a brief second plan on joining this once I heard it was associated with Amway( I have fallen victim to at least 20 other MLM presentations, having joined NuSkin when I was 20 and still in the military). I also sat through a 2 1/2 hour presentation in my own city where they tried to sell me, forgive my poor memory if in case I am wrong, Equus? Another version of Amway that they mentioned was "Amway" after 2 hours and 20 minutes. So to say the least I am now jaded to MLM and its practices. The story of who got me to that meeting is even worse. Anyway, please pass on and view the word, or "Cult"-ivation of Amway through its use of QUIXTAR.Com. Thank You for reading
Mon, 14 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wow... I just sat up till 3 in the morning reading your page on Amway. I wasn't ever approached by Amway nor was I ever interested in becoming a "member"... I just sorta stumbled upon your site in random internet travels. But, dam*, I never knew until tonight how brain washed Amway can make it's followers. Although "cult" maybe too strong of a word to use for all these "deceived" people no other word in the English language fits it. Although the Japanese word "otaku" (no English translation really, it sorta means an ultra obsessed fan, one who's entire life is dedicated to nothing but this one idea... obsessed beyond what is healthy) fits it very well. Anyways, the reason I wrote: If your computer-game-writing dream doesn't work out... you've got writing to fall back on =). I totally enjoyed your story and it's one of the best written pieces I've seen in quite a while. Good work and kudos to you on probably what is one of the most informative and entertaining pieces on Amway. Thanks for writing it... P.S. I guess what really drew me to this is I'm very anti-corporate (big fan of Michael Moore and all his work). Although, Amway may not be corporate it has a lot of traits that larger corporations have (smash the little man). P.P.S. I could go on forever about this... but to some it up (I gotta get some sleep) excellent work.
Tue, 15 Feb 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Hi Russell: I do not have a big Amway story like yours....but I felt a need to write to you. I have read your story in full (at one sitting I might add). I enjoyed it immensely. I have recently been approached with an opportunity to become an IBO in quixstar. A friend from work approached me..and I was flattered that he considered me because of my outgoing personality. Yes...I am very outgoing I will admit in all modesty and I love meeting new people and new challenges. I have met with a current IBO...and have to admit that his enthusiasm was quite catching and very enticing. I answered all his questions regarding my personal dreams and where I see myself in 5 years and how much money would I have to earn in one month to live comfortably. Wow....this person could not have come at a better time....my credit is stretched to the max...my paycheque is virtually spent before it is in my account...(we all know what that means). It all sounded too good to be true. And that was what tipped me off....how many things that are too good to be true are really that good. I could not see past the pyramid structure and each time I questioned the scheme....I was subtly whisked onto another subject. I also remarked at the first meeting, that the whole thing sounded like Amway. He was honest and said that Amway has fronted the funding for quixstar....but upon reading I am beginning to see that quixstar IS Amway. Please correct me if I am wrong. I had my doubts and suspicions and I have to be completely honest when I tell you that I am sure that your story told me exactly what I wanted to hear. Not until my friend called me on icq and asked if I was in or out...and told me "...that if my dreams were to stay in my basement apartment with my computer friends..then so be it. I am a shepherd not a sheep...I control my life my friends do not control me....I hope that you will reconsider...I know that you hear a lot of NO's out there but this is new to most and it will take some effort and time on your part to get things going....I will always be your friend...Leo" Does this sound like a recruiter in the making...? I cannot do that sort of thing....yes I would love to subsidize my present earnings, but it all seems to be at a great expense. Not just monetary expense but at a very personal level as well. I was not sure how recent your WebPages were made and if you will even receive this letter...but it has helped me a great deal in writing this letter to you...I am sure you are very busy and if it is not too much to ask I would love to hear back from you. ipow@netcom.ca Take care..and thanks again P.S. are you designing software now and following your dreams?
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Sat, 19 Feb 2000 Subject: Amway feedback Mr. Glasser: You website's looking better all the time. Nice that one as young as you has the courage, initiative, and wisdom to produce such a site. Keep up the great work!
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 1) Ginny, It's great that you're helping to spread the truth about Amway. I admire the moral courage of you & Mr. Glasser!
Sun, 20 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Amway feedback Thanks, I appreciate it that you noticed. I spent many hours this week learning tricks in Photoshop to improve the look and feel about the site. I have to confess that I wasn't completely doing it for the Amway site itself. My jobs lately have been centered around web development. I occasionally use the Amway page as a portfolio to show that I know how to design. Also, I just wanted to teach myself some new tricks.
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Ginny's Amway story (part 1) Thank you very much for your encouragement. We are a bit worried that the law suit Amway has against Sidney Schwartz will be lost, and then the fight to expose Amway will be lost too as they go after everyone else on the web who has something negative to say about them. The biggest worry of all, and more serious problem however, is that if Mr. Schwartz loses the battle, we all lose because freedom of speech will then be just one big joke. This court case if lost, will set a precedent for serious loss of rights. Your support is appreciated and if you care about your freedom of speech in any form of media, please educate yourself about the lawsuit that Amway has against Mr. Schwartz. If you know all the facts, it will show you a whole new side to what this corporation is doing and how evil they really are. go to http://www.teleport.com/~schwartz and follow the mirror links shown, you will find some interesting information. Some of these people who are providing this information are being threatened and harrassed by Amway's lawyers to close down their sites. This is a blatant infringement on freedom of speech and individual rights! It makes my blood boil when freedom and rights are being threatened. I hope it makes yours boil too, and one way you can help is by sending this email to anyone you know who cares about their freedoms too. We must all continue the fight for freedom our forefathers started, if we want to keep freedom alive. Sincerely, Ginny
Sun, 20 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Amway feedback Mr. Glasser, Thanks for the reply. The reason some cults will always persist, is that however ridiculous they may be, there really isn't any valid reason for opponents to spend much time and money in opposing them. I went to Amway meetings for the purposes of getting rich and sharing fellowship with my Ambot brother. Now that I'm out, I don't think I'll go to anti-Amway meetings and buy anti-books and anti-tapes, just to be free of Amway (Well, actually, I did by Ruth Carter's book "Smoke & Mirrors"). So, You needn't apologize for having a valid personal reason for upgrading your website. The court cases, however, do merit support, but only because Amway is actively attacking everyone's legal rights to free speech, not because fighting Amway is some holy, altruistic cause for which one should sacrifice. Keep up the good work. I need to learn website development & HTML myself. Mere writers of straight text on paper are in no demand whatsoever.
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) You must have quite a life there. Many things that you said were obvious, although exaggerated. The only problem I think that you have is that you see and note all these negatives, but you fail to see, that if you work this business, you will make money, alot of money. The only person that can stop one from succedeeding in Amway is themselves. If they quit, then they lose. Also, so that you can update your site, if you order $100 or more at a time from quixtar, you get free shipping. Jesus loves you and God bless!
Sun, 20 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Very nice!!! Having recently contacted by a Quixtar IBO, and attending one monthly meeting, I can attest to the truth presented here... Great Job!
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 Subject: misc. stuff about "the business" Hello, My name is being withheld because I honestly don't know what you may do with this message. However you may feel free to contact me at **********@*****.***. I've been in the Amway business for 7 years. My highest level of "pin" achievement is the 1000 level. That was achieved in June, 1996. Your web page has made several points that are arguable. The bottom line about this or any venture is that it WILL work (whatever "work"means to you -- make XX dollars, improve your social circle, learn more of the business world, etc.) if you're willing to apply yourself and not be distracted or discouraged. Although I've become a much better person in many ways for following the advise I've read in books, or heard on tapes, etc., I can understand if others view those or other parts of the (Bill) Britt system feel negatively about them. My marriage has been both challenged heavily and improved by what I've learned in this business. It really depends on how the couple views what is there. Life itself can hurt your marriage, but ONLY the two people involved can decide to end it. My wife and I have been on the "outs" on a number of occassions related to this business. I build it as a single person. She does have other interests. The bottom line for us, however, has been that we CHOOSE to stay together through the tennants of our Christian faith. If we were to allow anything to break us up, our daily routines OUTSIDE the Amway business provide more than enough elements to do that. Trust me, I've learned that challenges and trials will come whether I'm in this business or not. After experiencing 6 years of adulthood without the business, and 7 years with it, I'm better equipped for life's challenges with it. However, I'm sensitive enough to understand how others who may have Amway in their lives (either voluntarily or not) can feel the opposite. I feel that Jesus is the best "commodity" anyone could have. I certainly know where I'm going when I die, regardless if I make millions in this or any other venture. Hopefully, my letter to you has been worthwhile. I would REALLY like to hear an e-mail response from you. Thank you for your time. [No, I will NOT try to involve you in my business :)]
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 Subject: Finished your Amway story...REPLY Great story!! Yes.I read it all. I was raised in Rome NY, the home and remembered the month Dexter Y and Bunnie JOINED Amway. ..Always personally liked that guy. No..I am NOT into the Amway business..am a retired pharmacist. Great reading and great story. Give em hell!!
Thu, 24 Feb 2000 Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...REPLY > Great story!! Yes.I read it all. I was raised in Rome NY, the home and > remembered the month Dexter Y and Bunnie JOINED Amway. ..Always personally > liked that guy. > Good grief, why??