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Mon, 24 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Many of your points are real things that have happened, some often, some seldom. Sadly, your story, however real, is a very lopsided one in a huge world with lots of people and lots of opinions. You must be very bored.
Tue, 25 Nov 1997 Subject: Richard Brodie? Hi Russ - do you think that this guy is the same person that was Bill Gates' former assistant at Microsoft? I checked out his webpage and although it does not mention Amway does bring up marketing ideas in different areas. Wed, 26 Nov 1997 Subject: Re: Richard Brodie? I looked up Richard Brodie to see what you were talking about. I'm sure it's not the same guy. First of all, they don't have the same address. Second of all, this Brodie is very vocal about Amway, and the one on the web page never mentioned it. I don't think he would ever waste an opportunity to talk about his business. Third of all, my Richard Brodie has never mentioned Microsoft. Since Amway salesmen are, as a rule, EXTREMELY eager to point out their success in previous professions, I don't think he would have failed to do so.
Tue, 25 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Well, I read your entire story, and the one thing that stands out in my mind is all the lies. You lied to people who had your best interest in mind, you lied about the 'costs' you represent in your story, you even lied to young lady hwose dream you tried to steal. Why then should you be believed about anything you say? There are several people like you on the web who have set out to disparage anyone connected with the Amway corporation either as a distributor or corporate employee. I tend to equate you all with the other self absorbed purveyors of filth who use the internet to distribute child pornography and instrunctions on how to make illegal drugs. The Amway Business Opportunity is without a doubt the best way for honest hard working people to develope a successful business. Anyone who can succede at any enterprise can succeed in the Amway Business. The only reason anyone can fail is that they are simply failures in life. You certainly would not have had what it takes to be successful in this business o rprobably any other. only about 5% of people have what it takes, the rest are needed for the menial jobs. Tue, 25 Nov 1997 Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3) Cool. So tell me, if 5% of people have what it takes, then how come less than 5% of 1% go diamond? Fri, 28 Nov 1997 Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3) You misunderstand, only 5% of all people have what it takes to be successful at any endeavour, certainly not all of that 5% will even become distributors. The reference was to that overall 5%. Obviously some people who become distributors are part of the 95% who will not succeed at anything they try.
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway arguments page... Hey Russell. I wanted to drop you a note. A friend of mine and I were reminiscing over our Amway experiences from the past couple of years and he turned me to your page. No, I'm not the average person to give the "GO AMWAY!" or "DIE AMWAY!" passion or prejudice; I'm just writing you to tell you that I am very, very impressed with one, your arguments that seem to be tempered with wisdom and reason from a truly 3rd-party perspective, and two, your apparent lack of real resentment towards the business or the company as a whole. I think it's wonderful that someone as intelligent as yourself has taken the time to write the necessary truths about the business as a whole and help keep people on their toes. I was in the business for 8 months and, even though I left on my own volition without remorse or regret and having missed a few dollars, I've taken several of the experiences and turned them into positive lessons that I can (hopefully) use in the future. I learned to better communicate with people, focus more on the things I really love to do (much like you -- coding, development, engineering/creation-minded person [notice my email signature at the bottom]), and feel more confident and self-assured in the things I say and do around others. For that, I can't step on the memories of those 8 months and crush them underfoot; I can, however, say that it's a very shady business and alot of compuslive and obsessive patterns take place for those people who put enough faith into it. Your ways of thinking about people change; they tend to become dollar signs. Everyone's a prospect. There's a great pressure and stigma associated with every, single person you encounter. I, for one, refused to adhere to that mentality. Secondly, once I was out, I had a chance to "review my notes" and I came up with something -- The business was like a girl, for instance. You may admire the qualities of a girl, might even think she's attractive as all get out, but if you *really* don't have that first, foundational love for her, you won't ever, and this is what happened here. I think that, coupled with the fact that I found myself caught up in something that was swallowing me whole, drove me to quit. All in all, I'm a bit embarrassed and have made efforts to make resolutions to those that I may've "pushed", but am also thankful for the lessons learned. Keep up the good work and, with your attitude, zeal for the truth, and insistance in treating people fairly and with compassion, you *will* succeed at anything you put your mind to, Russell. I have no doubt.
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway page... Hello Russell! I've sent you an email a couple of months ago, asking to traduce part of your site. I didn't write anything official for now, and I didn't use your material for profit. I've done, instead, an anti-amway web page in Italian. Amway works in Italy, but there are no italians pages about Amway! If you'd like, I can put a link on my page to yours, and you the same. I'm on: Http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Floor/7361 I'm just beginning!
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway Page Greetings Russell. I've been approached and have never joined. These people are sick. I wanted to comment on the number of people I've seen emails from who quit but still think Amway Corp. is okay. The problem was at the diamon level or w/ their particular organization. Like scripture says, the fruit does not fall far from the tree. I just wanted to pass that along. Amway Corp. is the problem. They allow this to happen, hence they are the problem. That's all I had for now.
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway page... That letter that you responded to with the Blah blahs was somewhere between hilarious and pathetic! Classic! I laughed until I realized that there's a real human being out there that is letting other people do all the thinking for them... Actually, there are quite a lot like that. Keep up the good work!
Thu, 27 Nov 1997 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Hi Mr.Glasser, I am not sure how to respond to your experience with Amway except to say I am sorry. My husband, a dentist, and myself, a copy editor, are involved in Amway and I can't tell you enough positive about it. All things in life are relative to our own experieces, and for myself Amway has been a very wonderful and growing experience. I have found in my job I have encountered numerous "less than cordial and intelligent people", AND you will find some of these individuals are involved in the Amway business too. I am not trying to sell you or change your mind about Amway, I just wanted to share with you that there a responsible individuals that believe in Amway and the opportunity it provides. My husband and I do not chase or mislead people when we show them the plan (re. money, time, dreams etc.). We are honest and are following the outstanding leadership of Merritt and Beth Wiese who are our diamond direct distributors. If nothing else comes from this letter, we wish you happy holidays.
Fri, 28 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Do you really know what you are talking about? How long were you in Amway? What is current JOB. You do have one or are you FREE? If not, then you should have truly looked at the Amway opportunity and not have been a quitter. If you quit in anything, you will always look for the negatives. If you are not a quitter, which we know you are, then you would reap the rewards. Oh, well for you. Remember, it's never too late to change, or is that word not in your vocabulary. Check your self out in the mirror, do you like what you see or are you running from your shadow? Wake up my friend and see what your life could be. Don't badger something you quit at. A person who is looking out for you.
Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Subject: Amway!!! What is most important is that you are now happy not doing Amway, and that's great, but for you to say that it doesn't work; You're without a doubt ignorant. Sorry to say so, but it sounds more like you are just "A SOMEBODY", somebody like a complainer, a fence sitter, a procrastinater, with nothing better to do than share your uneducated advice in the manner you are doing. Good luck doing what you are doing and I mean it sincerely.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Dear Russell My Father in law was approached by the evil recruiters of the AMWAY = Empire this week in SOUTH AFRICA. It sounded like a pyramid scheme so we climbed onto the net to see if there was any info. We care across your site using Yahoo and found it very enlightening and saved us the time of going to any more meetings.=20 Thanks for saving us. I especially enjoyed Phil's comment "You'll never reach anyone that way !!!!!" Many thanks --- Keep up the crusade & we hope the death threats stop !!!!!!!
Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Subject: Thanks for the info I just got pitched today by a guy I ran into on the bus. Over coffee at Starbucks it took him nearly an hour to get around to mentioning the "A" word (Amway). Up until then I had no idea what he represented or why he was being so secretive about it (CIA? drugs? Moonies?). It was easily the worse pitch I've ever had from any salesman: motormouth, ignored me completely, etc. etc. But I was still vaguely interested enough to take some brochures home. And, check Yahoo out for some Amway links. Thanks for keeping your story out where it could be found. Without it a valuable perspective on Amway would be missing.
Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Subject: amway Thanks for the information on amway. It helped confirm my suspicions about its "business" dealings. Keep up the good work.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Hi Russ, Sorry to hear about your experience. I too have had some bad experiences with some people that were "in Amway". I have an insurance agency and have had terrible outings with many people in that business. However, I make a good living with it an kept working until I found honest, dependable and trustworthy people to deal with. The same held true for Amway. I have found that most complaints I hear and see are about distributors rather than the corporation. Unfortunately, people see those folks as Amway. When you have your software business rolling and have people working for or with you, you will find that they sometimes make claims or use business tactics that are not up to your standards. When you are successful and have your product in stores all across the nation, you will have little if any control over the mom and pop software retailers and less control over the super-stores. If you have retailers that use hidden or high pressure tactics, the market will take care of them by putting them out of business. The same holds true for distributors such as you were dealing with. I am very proud to be associated with the people I am working with in "Amway". We are successful business people that happen to handle Amway products. We would be successful handling any other product line because we use sound business practices. Of course we have not met, but as a favor to me, please do not toss all of us into the same pile as those you have met with. I would be curious to know if the person that tried to sponsor you is still in the business and have they grown any. If they are not growing or have quit, so goes the market and we have our answer. Based on what I know, it will only be a matter of time before their organization falls apart. Our business is a people business more than anything else. The only way someone keeps their business long term is to run it properly and treat people fairly. I think you would agree that is true no matter what the business is. I heard of a few white males that were mass murderers. But, I am not. I have heard of computer programmers that were on the edge of insanity. Based on what I see on your web page, you are not one of them. I don't consider you a looser or a non-dreamer or any of that other stuff. Amway just wasn't for you. It wasn't for me the first 2 or 3 times I was approached (tricked) into looking at it. I did have a trusted friend that asked if we could get together so he could run some ideas by me. There was no pressure and he told me up front that if I liked it, fine and if I did not, that was O.K. too. No big deal. I am building a very good business in just that fashion. No pressure, no bull. By the way, my sponsor has an extremely successful business that literally goes all over the world. He sits on the board of several well respected colleges and has lectured all over the world in the field of medicine. To the best of my knowledge, neither of us have ever taken advantage of anyone. In fact, I have seen people like you described put out of the organization. Best wishes for your software dream. We need competent people in that field. I hope you achieve your goals and exceed them. I intend to do the same for myself and my family. Work hard, have a plan, and stay focused!
Sun, 30 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 1) Read your story. Enjoyed reading about your exploits. MLM attracts many different people. Lots of nuts and free loaders looking for an easy way to make a quick dollar. I have been out of Amway for ten years. I recently "actived" myself. I have been reintroducing myself to the Amway marketing plan and distributor organization. The experiences you related I experienced ten years ago and I am reexpeiencing at this time. The Amway Company and the founders are good. The independent distributors are a varied lot. Some good and many not so good. I am trying to associate with the former group. The products are high priced. Many quality products are high priced. Try buying some organic vitamins or food at a helath store. I have done sales before. This part does not bother me. The vitamins are excellent. I plan to concentrate on this area. Yes, I plan to retail and build a "sales force"/ distributor organization. IF you wish to follow my quest, contact me. No, I do not plan to sign you up for Amway. You have already made your point loud and clear. I teach high school science. Consider me an experiment.
Sun, 30 Nov 1997 Subject: your story what a lot of crap.
Sun, 30 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway page... Hi! Well, I had my first encounter with Amway. I've been approached by people I know. And before me and my wife jumped into this thing "which sounded marvelous, an opportunity you can' miss", I had the same idea as your father suggested...go on the web and find out about Amway. I'm retired and have been in communications as a profession...I followed Amway's problems with the FCC. When the project was introduced to us yesterday, Amway came up only after 20 minutes in the presentation.... like you. I find your page site very revealing. Your have brought some restraint on our enthouiasm, I've been trying to reach your yellow section (real story) and it doesn't load up. Is there a problem? By then, I was looking forward to the story behind... Good work. Thank you.
Sun, 30 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Hi Russell-- I read every word on your pages. Superbly written!!!!!!!!! What a good read! Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I admire your approach and courage. I was "pitched" to in my home by my cousin's husband in 1990. I was very skeptical, and went to the library and read up on Amway. One book was hyping Amway, the other presented it as a scam. I thought it sounded "too good to be true" and believed the negative book more. The Morally, it just didn't feel right to me. Reading your sotry further confirms that I made the right decision! *whew*
Sun, 30 Nov 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Your story is unfortunate. It sounds like your life is very empty. Why would anyone who is claiming to be uninterested in the Amway business be so wrapped up in it at the same time. Hmmmm?
Mon, 01 Dec 1997 Subject: Total lack of intelligence If you need some attention by inviting responses to an obvious outcry for what must have been a deprived childhood, perhaps an abusive one, then why don't you try Sceptics anonomous, you peanut.
I must not have read that right. Did I just get called a peanut?
Mon, 01 Dec 1997
Subject: Its your turn
Dear Amway Disbelievers,
I have been to all of your web sites just to see what the other side is saying.
I want to thank you for a good laugh and think that it is just funny the way the
you seem to have no clue about the Amway business opportunity.
One of you, said that it takes 7 people to go Diamond. This shows how little
you know, it takes six. One of you, said that it takes 1000 people to go Diamond.
This is incorrect. Six people sponsor 75 people and you (their sponsor) go diamond.
That is .....OH MY GOD!!! Less than 1000. In fact, less than 600. Well, that
shoots down that theory.
All of you like to say that one cannot suceed without the System. Explain to
me, please, why I have not lost a single friend and have made all most direct in
only one month? I have attended only one small function that cost $20 and was a
deducitble expense. I think that you all need to get a few things straight.
Well, I probably shouldn't have written as these addresses are probably fake since
you know you cannot answer the real facts from real distributors. I would encourage
you all to write to me, but you probably won't. I can answer all your questions
and leave you in the dirt.
The best is wished upon those with a dream. I have helped several mothers be at
home with their kids. I have brought fathers off the factory line and made them
better fathers. I sleep sound at night knowing that I am going to do the same tomorrow.
Damn you for calling me bad for wanting to help people.
P.S. I spend 8-10 hours a week - not 80
Tue, 02 Dec 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Thank you, Russell! (I think...) I must say, your story was most interesting. Yes, I am one of those punishment gluttons who trudged through the whole thing, probably because I am a 1-year+ Amway distributor and have reached that place of quiet desperation you so eloquently described in parts 2 & 3. It's funny, because at about your apparent age (early 20's), I also was courted by an Amway Distributor, and I likewise made a daring escape. This is some 20 years in my past, and I was full of myself and how I was going to become a legendary engineer, designing & building like Frank Lloyd Wright. Such hubris, but every young person SHOULD have some of that! I think MLMs like Amway hold the strongest appeal for those who are never quite able either to achieve the goals of their youth or lack the drive or focus to succeed in what they are doing for a living. You have to admit, not everyone is going to be able to be Owner, President or CEO of their own company, or even middle management of whatever it is they do professionally. In fact, the vast majority of us will probably spend all our lives working to make someone else wealthy, while hoping we can squirrel away enough in a 501k or such so that we're not destitute when nobody else will hire an old codger. So, here I am, early 40's and working as a CAD draftsman. I poke at learning C++, and am somewhat ambitiously starting in on Visual Basic in the hope of working part time for myself to supplement an increasingly (or is it a decreasingly) meager salary. And about a year ago, my wife got all excited about an Amway pitch, to which I said "Why not?". I guess time & mileage finally took their toll. The pitiful facts are... We have 3 people sponsored, down from a mid-year high of 7. We dove in enthusiastically and attended local monthly meetings (not as bad as your experiences) at only $5 a pop. Also on a monthly basis were the regional meetings, which cost $20 a head for tickets, plus the costs of driving 8 hours one way & an overnight stay in a motel. We (my bride of 19 years & I) have pretty much tapped out in the friends & family area, so our "business" is in a doldrums. I will say this though. We do use a fair sampling of Amway products on a regular basis because some of them do represent a better-than-average value over the retail equivalents. These are mostly "core-line" products, such as the proverbial soaps & cleaners. Just as any store offers great buys from time to time, you CAN find good values even in Amway. It will probably dismay you, but we aren't ready to quit Amway yet, although there is always hope. We have managed to retain all our old friends, mainly because I refuse to talk to them about Amway after having shown them the Plan, unless they happen to inquire. Even then, I keep it short. After all, they weren't interested before, and I'll not EVER be accused of brow-beating any of them. Unlike you, we did happen to meet a few people through our upline that we like. So, it seems at the moment I'm something of a middle-of-the-road guy. Of course, you know what that means. I can get hit by traffic from both directions! Anyhow, thanks for the web-pages. Who knows, maybe I'll keep you posted on our adventures in Amway. As you already have "insider" references, there's probably nothing else I could tell you, but if you ever have any questions, my e-dress is at the top of this note. I may have been manipulated to this point, but I've always tried to be honest & up-front with everyone, which is why I'll probably never be really RICH through Amway. Best Regards.
Tue, 2 Dec 1997 Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) As you may recall, several months ago I sent you e-mail correspondence regarding my take on your opinions about the Amway opportunity. I have come to one conclusion during my initial 1 year "Amway evaluation period"...IT'S AWESOME!!. Strangely enough, things are looking much better now than they ever have before - and I am making new friends every day - whether or not they want to be in Amway, just buy products, or whatever. Yes, there are some people in Amway who get overzealous some times. However, please do not sentence the other 2.5 million of us to your brand of web page crucifixion - who are doing just fine. During the past year I have honestly never encountered a negative aspect on the Amway business or in just being a customer of an Amway distributor. All the Amway distributors work hard for what they achieve - not ripping people off or brainwashing the masses as you propose (and believe me, since I had been in Excel and 1 other business before - I had a very critical eye on the Amway opportunity during 1997). However, I have encountered negative people from time to time - usually people with no self respect and a lack of vision (no, not because they said yes or no to Amway or what they said...). Most of these people saw one little thing they personally did not like about Amway and blew it WAY out of proportion - and usually took it to such an extent that it turned into a verbal tirade or a literal crusade against Amway and the people in it. At least a dozen people I have contacted this year say they dislike or are indifferent to Amway because they were involved before. When I asked them what happened - EVERY one of them said Amway never worked for them. So I asked again...why?...did you do the work and training that it requires to be successful? EVERY response was practically NO. This tells me one thing about Amway - if you want to make it work - it's like anything else. It will take ambition, drive, motivation, and vision. Not quitting, whining, being passive or weak (as you sketch many of the Amway distributors to be). I do not make web pages criticizing politicians just because I think Washington does not do everything right...or verbally destroy people in the trucking industry just because many truckers are rude or even outright dangerous drivers on the roads around here... My point is something that you knew when you were first introduced to the Amway opportunity...not everything is right for everyone every time - and maybe not ever - if at all. I never thought I would be working in a computer/mainframe systems job ten years ago. Ten years ago, if you would have asked the snot-nosed, arrogant, know-it-all teen I was then - I would have blasted ANYONE in the computer industry for being a @#$#% nerd and a @%#% loser. Seriously! Ten years ago while I was in the military - I also told someone in the Amway business to "get the (*^)# away from me with that &%#$ or I was going to beat the !@#% out of them!" (exact words - censored of course.) Only a decade has passed since then, and wow how things have changed! One thing learned in the past 10 years was how to listen (maybe you or my wife would argue with me on that :) ). Listening is what brought me to conclude that Amway was the best of the several business opportunities (or careers) I had tried or investigated. I did not need the money, and I already had plenty of friends and a wife and son who loved me. So when a friend of mine at work suggested that we get together for lunch to talk for 45min-1 hour about the Amway opportunity - I said sure - not yes. It took 2 months of lunches every other week to convince me (because of the impression that Excel left me with it's high entrance and advancement fees! - but not that Excel doesn't work!). One other thing about the Amway opportunity was that it is over 30 years old, is in 79 countries world wide, has distribution agreements with over 1500+ manufacturers and markets 10,000+ products and services and has simply been tried and tested successfully (not to mention that I would be foolish to argue with the experience wisdom of the boards of those 1500+ companies that decided to say "yes" - Amway is one very good way to market our products and services. Further not to mention the governments of those 79 other countries who let the Amway opportunity be built on their soil). The one thing that finally sold me was not the Amway name, not it's products or services, not it's commission structure, and not the possible income. It was and still is the people - not the ones already in, or the one who sponsored me - it was my wife, my son, and myself and the freedom to spend more of our lives together - something that this business MIGHT possibly offer. It takes two things to do this business - training and commitment - and if someone is not willing to do these things as an Amway distributor then they should keep their current job and work until their 65 or 70 and retire on substandard income and meager retirement savings (not to mention paltry Social Security benefits!). If the Amway business is wrong for providing a way for more people than any other job or business to spend more time with their families, I would be interested to know why you believe that. Tue, 02 Dec 1997 Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3) Well, what can I say? I'm happy for you. And while sharing in your joy, may I innocently inquire about the heights to which your monthly income has now soared? And how much extra time have you spent with your wife and kids lately?
Hmmm... funny. No response this time.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 2 Dec 1997 Hey Russell, great story and page. I've been approached several times but have always said no. The last time was by a friend whom I've known for 21 years and is now a successful attorney with his own practice in partnership w/ his own brothers. Keep up the good work. Let me leave you w/ a phrase a friend left me with about Amway. "Amway, the stamp of white trash". P.S. I would like to talk w/ you about succeeding in the IT/IS industry. I'm a bean counter who's making a career transition and would like to get some help and a chance to make some money and do IS type work. On my on machine in my own home if possible.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 3 Dec 1997 Dear Russell, I need help! My 22 year old son who is in the Army joined Amway a year and a half ago. I tried to talk him out of it. Bad news about Amway has been around for years, long before he was grown up. It is destroying his marriage. My granddaughter is only 19 months old. It is breaking this family's heart to see what he is doing. He is so brainwashed it's unbelievable. He is not the same young man. Most incredible? His upline is younger than he is!! He is a Christian. I have watched him believe things that simple are not true. He defends Amway with his life. Five weeks ago he left his wife and daughter. He went from the doting father to the 5 minute dad. It is sickening. He is argumentative. He wants no advice from his family as "they are not where he wants to be" My stepfather is a retired MD and worth almost one million dollars. Not where he wants to be? I could write a ton of stuff. I live 3000 miles away from him right now and I can see everything. Of course he tells me I don't believe in him. I try to tell him it's Amway that I don't believe in. We are ready to go physically get him and have him deprogrammed. I have written Congress and the Senate, his commanding officer to try and get him transferred as to get him away from his upline. How do you get someone out of Amway? Any advice would be most appreciated. Thanks.
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 2 Dec 1997 my son came home and started talking about Amway....found your page, and made him read it...hope it sinks in in time.... Great job on your site!
Subject: Re: Resond to web page
Tue, 02 Dec 97
hi,
My name is ***** and I am truly moved by your story. I to have a story to
tell but I don"t want to waste your time. I too lost money in Amway, intially.
Not everyone has experiences like yours and just like you wanting the people
to be tolerent of people not interested, you should be tolerent of the people
that are or want to be involved. Here's my short prespective on things. I read
your complete page please read mine. Amway is not for everyone and not all can
nor want to do it. As with any business, there are upfront AND continuing
cost. Everything but the Sales kit is optional. Most diamond organizations
have there own way of doing things, Amway should do a better job of policing
but since it is an open oportunity, Things happen that are always ethical.
People are people, good, bad, and indifferent. You know, it takes all kinds.
So I'm sure many of your concerns are valid, your story is as one sided as
theres. So plese emphasize on your page objectively that yours is only one
side of the story and encourage people to fully check out the WHOLE story.
Good luck in programming it is a growing field.
Thanks for listening,
Wed, 3 Dec 1997 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Dear Russell, Yes, I like so many people at a vulnerable time in my life, joined Amway. And yes, like so many before me, failed miserably. I'm not going to argue with all the naysayers that say I'm a loser or a quitter. I know I put my heart & soul into "the business" for 2 years. I purchased all their tapes and supplies, went to ALL their functions and opens, I was "counselled" by my upline and I followed the rules. I got nowhere, but unfortunately I got their S-L-O-W-L-Y. I know they will say 2 years is not enough time or I didn't try hard enough. I say those 2 years were the longest and back-breaking years of my life. Do you want to know what I got for it? I got "building" materials up the kazoo! I asked my friends, my upline (who by the way, have been in for over 4 years and are up to debt past their eyeballs and which he holds THREE jobs to SUPPORT their Amway business) "How would you like to buy back some of the materials I bought from you. It would be beneficial to both of us." They could have all of it cheap and I'd get a little back so I wouldn't feel so cheated. Want to know the answer? I'm sure you already know it. "Amway has changed, they are doing things differently now. That's what we want to talk to you about and show you!" Hmmmm, how did Amway change so much that all the stuff they have been pushing us to buy to "help build the business" become so obsolete in just a few short months? I was hurt and then angry. Amway practically put us in the poor house. What do I do w/ all this stuff? Should I throw it away? What a shame and waste of $ that would be. I packed up a box full of tapes and other things and will put it up in the attic. So if there are any Amway people out there that would like to help out an X-Amwayite (I somehow doubt it) they can e-mail me for the contents of the box. There is over $500.00 of value (when new & some still unopened) of the Dexter Yager line in that box. New Amywayites, BEWARE, don't purchase all the materials, you really don't need them, just borrow some from your upline. Don't go to all the functions, go to just a handful. They are all the same and you'll probably be buying the tape in a few weeks anyway. Oh, and don't feel blessed when your upline's upline takes an interest in you. They help the ones that fit their agenda. If you hear "I want to help you if you are willing to do the work. I need some top people that can manage a downline. Are you hungry enough?" RUN THE OTHER WAY. You'll only be special IF you can get people in and get them to STAY in. No people - no interest or help. Oh, and no boat rides or trips to the mall to see how they shop. The only one that gets rich is your babysitter and your children hate you for leaving them all the time. They help you brainwash your kids into believing it's for the greater good. THEIR good, not yours and especially not your children's. Russell, I can't tell you enough how your page has helped me. I couldn't face or admit to many things until I read the letters from your website. I can look people in the eye again and say, "I made a mistake". For that I owe you big time. Thank you so much! I will write to you and tell you my story someday. Please keep my name and address listed just in case someone wants to unload me of my supplies. Please guys, no negative e-mails, I really am a nice person and my children use this address. Thanks again Russell! Linda Mvrl5@aol.com
Wed, 3 Dec 1997 Subject: Finished your Amway story... Way to go! I'm arguing pretty intently with an Amway zealot on a "Is Amway a Cult?" Message board on AOL, and believe me, I've been called every negative name in the book...I couldn't understand the name-calling before but after reading your story, I understand, I was pretty well ripped off by another MLM, you may have heard of them? Nu Skin/Interior Design Nutritionals? Pretty much the same deal... Anyhow, Thanks so much for your web page. You've given me more than enough information to state an intelligent case so that at least some people won't fall for it... Best of luck to you!
Thu, 4 Dec 1997 Subject: Amway -- An International Perspective Dear Russell: You may be surprised to receive a letter from someone in Romania, Europe, but, yes, Amway got here too! The American Way of modern day colonialism... Thanks to your web site I got comprehensively enlightened on the way this Machiavellian scheme has been engineered to fool the naives of the world. It has come at the right moment, as I was beginning to consider signing up, after a meeting last week with one of their 'Teds'. Amway's "conquistadors" are already here, the other side of the Atlantic! The wiled, shrewdly coloured beads coming from the 'civilized world' are being flaunted in front of the barefoot indigenes. Flesh and blood overseas 'diamonds' walk on podiums in striptease-like functions with the US jack in the background. I should be grateful to Yahoo as well, as they listed down Amway's official site, of course, but at the same time, right underneath 'The Perils of Amway' too, so I went straight there. I guess it's my philosophy in life to broach a new venture with the gloomiest outlook of it in mind first. You may called that skeptical temper. My luck was that I happen to have a web access facility at home (still a privilege here) and the fact that I'm fluent in English, so that I can understand and delve into this huge water melon called the Internet. But what about the striving majority of my countrymen who are deprived of this information source and subsequently all too vulnerable preys for the international dream swindlers. According to one of Amway's 'Teds' here, their Romanian branch (officially opened on November 10) is going 'very strong'. The media was told Amway -- one of the world's largest corporations (!?!), founded in 1959 -- invested in Romania $13 million in one goal to open fully computerized distribution centers employing 60 people in three of this country's largest cities. There are, after all, 23 million inhabitants or potential recruits to concentrate on and computerize. It dawned on nobody so far to ask why on earth all that logistic fuss when there are only 6 or 7 teeny-weeny products altogether to handle: a toothpaste, a toothbrush set, a soap, 3 or 4 detergents in small containers. As you so righfully pointed out in your main story and also in the arguments section, this kind of sophisticated pyramid scheme can hardly be fought against in courts. It is diabolically legal. But equally devilish as any rudimentary pyramid scheme. Take the example of Albania and the bloody civil war that followed the collapse of such a nationwide "game", earlier this year. I guess the issue of the 'bunch-of-crooks' type MLMs should rather be treated, from a legal point of view, from the drug addiction perspective, overwhelmingly accepted as evil and destructive. At the end of the day, both of them make a 'business' out of innocent people's dreams. Sincerely, ***** Bucharest, Romania
Wed, 03 Dec 1997 Subject: SCAMWAY!!! Hey Buddy, I enjoyed reading your Amway page, and I intend to read the others on the web. My brother does Amway, but I don't know how deep in shit he is now. I am thankful that he hasn't tried to recruit me, and I also hope that I don't have to de-program him some day. Keep up the good work! If you think the starry-eyed Amway devotees can't be helped, maybe someday you could try convincing an artist that not everything is art, that they aren't needed to save us from the fascists that are trying to take away our freedom of speech, or that if the NEA disappeared, we would still see plenty of other things besides black velvet Elvises and dogs playing pool. That's my nightmare.
Subject: AMWAY Wed, 3 Dec 1997 Russell, First of all let me say that you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. And I know you are probably going to think I am "brainwashed" or something, but that is not the case(as for many distributors) some probably are. The problem I have is the apparent misleading statements on your web page. First you mention that AMWAY is like a monetary chain letter. Well it is not even close. But if it is isn't a normal job the same. Will you ever make more than your boss, will he make more than his? I think you get the point. In this business you can make more than you boss(upline). I know this for a fact because I have on several occasions. In your example you state that if you sponsor 10 help them sponsor 10 etc.. you would net more than $10000 a month, this is just plain wrong. First if you had 10 and they all had 10 and so on most of the bonus would go down beyond you because, most of the "work" is happening there. You would get a chunk, but you would have to pass most on to your 10 so they could pass it on to their 10 and so on. So you can see where stating you would net $10000 a month is misleading. Second you ask "where is the "bonus" money coming from?" Take this into consideration, AMWAY is debt free always has been always will. They did 6.5 billion in sales in 1997. Do you think it costs that much to run the company? No, that is were the money comes from. Last but not least is that facts you are stating about the prices and discounts. The 30% only reflects the discount on AMWAY product. The discount on other manufactuers averages 17%. And AMWAY is not the retailer. When you order a SONY TV AMWAY has nothing to do with it other than processing your order. It gets shipped right from SONY. As for the shipping is only 5% or $5 which ever is greater. So you can see even with shipping you still save. The high shipping rates for big items is determined by UPS not AMWAY. So in closing like I said each is entitled to their own opinion, but I just request that you check your facts before you print them. Again I am not "brainwashed". I don't shove the plan down peoples throats. I have heard those horror stories(firsthand, not to me but to others). If someone seems like they might be interested in something like this I then bring it up to them. Then if they say no, I say thanks for your time and go on. My bestfriend said no, he is still my bestfriend. We go on as though nothing was every said. I don't think he is a loser and he doesn't think I am a brainwashed fool. I know there are a few idiots out there that give us good distributors a bad name. Thanks for listening.
Thu, 4 Dec 1997 Subject: My reply to your Amway page I started "the business" in August. My brother sponsored me. I started out doing bid retail volume in Artistry cosmetics. Then I got talked into doing a couple of house meetings and going "core". I was convinced that in order to be successful I had to be on standing order tape, books and attend ALL functions. Well, I did it full force and jumped up to 300 PV myself. Then I noticed all my money made on retail was going right back out on tapes and functions. Plus I HATED trying to sponsor people. I decided to stick to retail. No problem I thought. I had been told one could not lose money as claimed by all those ex-distributors, it is all covered by a money back garauntee. HA HA. I boxed up all those tapes and 3 info kits and mailed them at a cost of $75.00 to my direct distributor. Also I sent my Dream Night tickets back today for a refund. I received a call from my direct telling me I would receive no money back on tapes and only credit toward future purchases of products for products I returned. Reason for no money back on tapes: The IRS gave them a lot of trouble for refunding money on tapes because these are a business deduction. So they don't do that any longer. Also the tapes were out of their original celophane packaging. Hmm... I spoke to a friend who is an accountant and a relative who worked for the IRS. They laughed and said that was a crock. You can imagine how upset I am. I can only imagine how many hundreds of dollars my brother has invested in tapes and tools. I sent a letter (E-mail) to Amway corporation about all this. I'm sure they've heard it all before... I'm just glad I got smart at 300 or so dollars and not thousands like others.
Thu, 04 Dec 1997 Subject: Your Amway page... Dear Sir. Yesterday I was invited to a presentation by operatives from Amway. FORTUNATELY I was involved in direct sales (and on a commission only basis) before and have been quite successfull at it at times.I've been door-knocking to get leads and and do a presentation (And I did hundreds of them) as well as the 12 tape Tom Hopkins course etc etc. I say fortunately, because I realized that the whole presentation was just a repetition of what I have heard many times before. This alone made me suspicious as I know too well that there is no EASY MONEY in this type of work. My best friend wants to sponsor me to join and I know him to be an upright, hard working and soft hearted family man. I did read your comments, calculations, deductions and conclusions about Amway and through this can only find confirmation of what I suspected right from the beginning. I thank you for making your observations accessible and will abstain from becoming an operative of that organization and by this possibly save myself from losing a great deal of money and a good friend. Cape Town Southafrica
Thu, 04 Dec 1997 Subject: Your Amway page... Keep the comments coming! You are making the funnel in your letter of the month look like it is working quite well! I feel for you..... To your success sonny,
Subject: Amway RULES Fri, 5 Dec 1997 Just kidding! This is the biggest scam I have ever seen. You did a great job by getting away from it and writing a descriptive and highly entertaining page. I was surprised to find that you actually spent so much time before you understood the scam. I am a computer geek like you and I strongly believe that you should stick to what you are good at. The only right way to make money is by producing something. I have one negative comment about your web page: I stayed at work late to finish my project. Now, I am here, sending you an e-mail at two o'clock in the morning. I spent last three hours reading your story. GODDAMN YOU! :)
Subject: your paper Fri, 5 Dec 1997 Russell, I just finished reading your paper. A guy in my building is trying to 'sign people up'. Just about everyone I know laughed at him. One guy passed your page around the office and we all really enjoyed it. I have been interested for sometime in the cult tactics of many multi level plans. It's really sad to see these people. Initially, they walk around with this big grin on their face like they have stumbled upon some kind of hidden wealth - THAT nobody knows about. And that THEY know the truth and HOW to succeed and screw everybody who stands in there way since they must be the non-believers. Gee- sounds like a cult to me. I was approached by a FRIEND of mine last year about an opportunity (the Amway one!). He sat me down and tried to work on me and then introduced me to his friend (the old double team). They tried to sing me up and have me sing my friends up too. But...I kept saying to them - where's the $ - it does not make sense. They explain to me that you will make $ back on things your would buy every day anyway and that it can't be a pyramid since you can make more that your upline. Unbelievable! Suffice to say I decline since one I was aware of Amway and two since I have seen so many friends be caught in these traps. Anyway - I really liked what you wrote - well done. Have you heard of a book call "Amway - the pyramid within" it supposable really slams them. I have not been able to find it. Later
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 5 Dec 1997
Hi Russel
You have really dropped the ball on this one . The Amway business,
not the other crap ( tapes books meetings) is the Real opportunity for
average people to truly own and operate a Home Based Business. I am a full
time firefighter and my wife is a dental hygienist we are very busy people
and we make over $1,000 a month on the Commission we earn from approx.50
people buying products and services at COMPETITIVE prices from my Amway
network. It is the most Legal and Legit business opportunity I know of and
I am proud to be associated with a network that offers all the products and
services from over 400 NAME BRAND COMPANIES as well as the full line of
Amway products AND pays its Commission cheques on time every month. The
SYSTEM is garbage, but the company and network is SMOKIN!!!!!
Fri, 5 Dec 1997
Subject: Amway is a Joke !!
Thanks for tellling your story on the Web. My husband and I wer
"in" for about a year. We were very busy for nothing. The "Leaders"
are good liers and fakes..
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sat, 6 Dec 1997 I'd like to say hi, and thanks for the info. I am still an Amway distributor, although not active ( we don't even buy the products anymore). My wife feels the same way you do about the business and the up-line. I, however, see the business as a viable alternative to the 9 to 5, work till you die route. I wish my up-line all the luck in the world and despite the fact I'll be a little sick when it happens, I look forward to the day when they both can leave their jobs and their earnings begin to escalate geometrically, as they can in the Amway system. About the tapes, you said that they were of no use whatsoever; I found them to be a great alternative to the mindless fodder on my car's FM radio. I now listen to the fodder, since I returned the tapes to my sponsor to use to further his success. My wife is now a lot happier and I am resigned to do the work-a-day thing. However, the tapes and books have had their effect, because I hear the things you accuse Amway of---coercion, distortion of facts, false promises used to get you to buy more, and misrepresentation of motives---on the commercials bombarding me everyday from my radio and TV set. Good luck in your endeavors and I hope you have someone in your life as I do in mine, to share some dreams with.
Sat, 06 Dec 1997 Subject: My reply to your Amway page Russell, Thanks for the insight. It's unfortunate that Amway and others have given multi-level marketing such a bad name. The only company that I came accross in my research that seemed to be legitimately using MLM is Rexall. They sell preventative healthcare products that are FDA approved and patented based on scientific research. The products can be purchased directly from Rexall by anyone and Distributors can earn 20% commissions after hitting $4000 in sales for one month. This 20% level is then maintained forever with no further volume requirements. There are some recruitment tapes, but they are 85 cents apiece. Meetings cost nothing (except the national conferences, which run about $330 a couple. I will say that some of thier higher level distributors do use some disturbingly similar tactics (use the system, trust the upline, can't succeed unless you do what they say, etc.) And only the highest level earners can produce promotional materials. Do you have any feedback from other regarding Rexall? Thanks again,
Subject: Amway...
Sat, 06 Dec 1997
Russell,
For a programmer your webpage is set up very bland, unimaginative
and visually unappealing (No offence)
You should consider using interlaced GIF's because those pictures
of yourself take to long to appear. (Why is it that every computer geek
wears those horrible shirts and sports that same cheap black plastic
watch?)
Anyway I see you were trying to flex your intellectual muscles by
telling everyone that the Amway pay plan is based on the zero sum, well
it is not because if it was, the Federal Trade Commission would not
permit it. There is not a fixed amount of money on the table,
because people are buying products and receiving commission. And the
$200 a month is not a business expense. It is a living expense
because you would need to buy consumables anyhow, be it your own
business or the supermarket. So therefore the $6 per month positive
cash flow, combined with the tax advantages creates a very tiny
profit immediately. (Most conventional businesses operate at a loss
for the first 3 to 5 years. You can research this if you question it.)
As far as a return on an investment is concerned, Have you made
enough money in your first 6 months to a year to pay off your
student loans for college? Are they paid off yet? Will they be in the
next 2 or 3 years? Appears your operating at a loss. Hmm...
Everything else that you stated incorrectly seems to have been
addressed already.
Your information on brainwashing is ridiculous, the exact same
motivational techniques were originated by a little company
named IBM. The meetings, motivational rallies, business attire, ect.
There results proved excellent for the production and moral of those
involved, so Dexter Yeager duplicated this for his distributors.
Research the validity of ALL of you material in the future.
Because there are alot of people out there who have made sizable
incomes from the flow of products, yes PRODUCTS not business tools,
in a couple years time.
Although it may sound like I'm an defensive Amway distributor
myself, I am not. I was a distributor for over a year and decided
it just wasn't my cup of tea. Although I might not agree with everything
that is said by the Diamonds and Emeralds, there is
something to be said for the motivation and support you receive
from them. When I got involved in Amway, my self esteem isn't
nearly what it is today. Part of the "system" that you condemned
consists of, finding and learning to bring out your positive attributes,
as well as working on your weak ones. Having friends
that support you and tell you that they love you and that your a
winner. (Gee that's terrible isn't it?), reading 15 to 20 minutes
a day from one of the books that is on there book list is also
part of there "system", books such as;
1. The Seven Habits Of Highly Successful People by Stephen Covey
2. Self Made In America
3. Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
4. How Win Friends And Influence People by Dale Carnegie
5. Born To Win
6. Success Through a Positive Mental Attitude by Napoleon Hill
7. Men are from Mars Women are from Venus by John Grey
8. The Art of Understanding your mate
9. The Making of George Washington
10. Bringing out the Best in People
And many others, I credit these books, the seminars and rallies, the
tapes I listened to for over a year, and the friends I made in the
business for my level of success today OUTSIDE of Amway. It changed
me from a someone with not so great self confidence, A job mentality and
a poor attitude about life in general. To a someone with high
level of self confidence, an Entrepreneur mentality, and a new
attitude towards life, And a very exciting career as a Stock Broker and
a few close friends that I'll have for a very long time.
Not everyone that is in Amway is an "Amaclone" One of my best
friends (who also sponsored me into the business before I decided it
wasn't for me.) Is a Emerald in the business, that also owns 3 retail
stores in 2 different states. Between Amway and his 3 retail stores, he
makes a very sizable 6 figure income. His name is Bill, he wears tie
died tee shirts, drinks beer, and rides a Harley. Not quite the
brainless conformist you claim all Amway people are.
Although I am no longer an Amway distributor, I still use
almost all of there consumables for a couple of reasons, The quality
of the products manufactured by Amway, which is almost all of the
consumable products, are second to none as far a quality. I also
love the convenience of ordering everything I use in my house,
food, toothpaste, paper towels, soap, cat food, ect ect ect
and having everything shipped to my doorstep. I simply look around
the house, see what I'm going to need for the next 2 weeks, then
I either make a phone call or fax in my order with my credit card
number, and everything gets delivered right to my doorstep.
Why do I do this? Well quite simply I like the products better,
It's much more convenient to have everything dropped off directly
to me instead of driving to the store, walking up and down the isles,
putting everything into a cart, bagging the order, driving back to my
house, unloading all the bags...You get the picture. And my friend
Bill gets A sales commission from the Amway corporation for whatever
I buy. Notice I said "from the Amway corporation" and not from some
distributor just starting out, you've got it all wrong.
Russell, this was not meant to be a flame because everyone is
entitled to there own opinion. You seem to be fond of quotes:
"I do not agree with you. But I will defend with my life your right to
make the statement." -Voltair
Russell, I wish you success in whatever you do.
You know what always makes my day?
When some goon ridicules my design sensibilities, mocks my taste in clothes, calls me a geek, insults my intelligence, makes wrong assumptions about my financial situation, and then closes his letter with, "...but I don't want to flame you, of course, since you're entitled to your opinion."
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sat, 6 Dec 1997
Dear Russel,
Thanks for taking the time to put your experiences on the Web for
the benefit of other skeptical, but almost a sucker, people. The
Chinese food analogy was very appropriate-it sounds good at the time,
but there is no substance.
Amway seems now to be targeting health care providers (of which I am
one) a potential distributors, by playing on our fears about the future
as HMOs and insurance companies make money off our labors with less left
over for us, the providers. They use the Amway pyramid scheme to
demonstrate how we can turn the tables and make money off other people
instead.
I guess what it boils down to is, that like you, I just want to make
money off my own hard work, not anyone else. So I guess we will never
be a "Diamond" but maybe a happy and satisfied "Cubic Zirconia"
Sat, 6 Dec 1997
Subject: thank you from a stranger
Dear Russell:
I would like to take this time to personally thank you for the time you
have spent on developing your pages on the negative side of Amway. Like you,
I noticed the cult-like characteristics and thank goodness it was in time. I
have been approached numerous time by various multilevel marketing "ideas".
(I use "ideas" because I refuse to use the word "business" when referring to
Amway. It seems too inappropriate.) I view myself as an above average
salesperson and as I am sure you are aware, those "distributors" seek out
those types of people, relentlessly entering stores of which they have no
attraction, raising fales concernsabout particular merchandise just to grade
the salesperson as to whether or not it is someone they would want "on their
team". My thoughts are exact to those of yours and I am glad I found your
pages of asssistance. A very close friend of mine is involved in Amway and is
convinced he will find success (to the extent that he hopes to be able to
retire in 3 years!). I do hope that by some chance he can beat the odds and
actually succeed in his attempts, just because he is such a good friend and I
wish him success in life. What bothers me is that he is not the kind of
person that is easily convinced of these types of situations. Somehow Amway
found the opening it needed to reel him in. And obviously you have figured
out that he has tried to convince me to join. There is no need to worry, for
I have spent much time (such as sleepless nights, skipped classes at college,
etc.) contemplating whether or not to get involved in this operation. I spent
6+ hours straight one day discussing with a MLM called Environmental
Alternatives (part of Equinox International) whether or not to join. They
were very impressed with my concerns (that apparently attracted them to my
style as a salesperson) but I finally decided against joining. What kept my
interest for so long was their documented proof as ranking number one on Inc.
magazine's annual top 500 list of companies with the best outlook for success.
All of my attempts to convince my friend to not become as deeply involved as
he is are in vain, as he sees me almost as "the antagonist" of his business
venture. It seems almost ironic that my organized negating of Amwayor any
other MLM schemes are the attributes that attract him to my style as a desired
worker. I have been avoiding others attempting to pull me into MLMs for two
years now and feel as if i have valuable "field experience" in doing such (sad
to say it has gotten to the point that I view it as a skill). My girlfriend
was even targetted when she was searchng for employment, findiing some MLM
dealing with perfume sales. After getting her hopes up to be something very
legitimate, she returned to the group the next day to beggin what she thought
would be a decent job. The truth became evident and she was very upset by
this company, deciding not to become one of the next "followers". This
obviously upset me also. This industry of MLMs changes lives. I thoroughly
enjoyed your reference to the cults because MLMs do have THE SAME EFFECTS! As
a perfectionist, my fear was that if I did become involved, my life would have
been nothing but WORK, WORK, WORK. I could forecast that I would have become
a monster. I envisioned myself losing sleep at night fearing any minute not
awake might cause me to miss out on some breakthorugh ideas on how to make
more money. I could see viewing acquaintances not as friends but rather as
possible avenues to more money. That happened to another friend that is
involved in Amway. Who was once a friend that others looked forward to
interacting with, had turned into someone that everyone wants to hide from
when he is noticed approaching. I could go on and on but I need not do that
because you agree. Once again I thank you for your valuable information.
Could you please update me on any recent findings, discoveries, statistics,
etc. that you may uncover? The e-mail address that I use is
***@***.***. If you have any suggestions for what course of action
may be most beneficial for me regarding my friend please inform me. Other
friends have noticed his
Subject: YOU ARE AN IDIOT Sat, 6 Dec 1997 WE WILL NOT WASTE ANY MORE OF OUR VALUABLE TIME ON YOU. ITS A SHAME YOU DIDNT GET IT. YOU MUST REALLY HAVE A FROZEN BRAIN HERES MY WIFE................ YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. I AM CURRENTLY IN THE PROCESS OF BEGINNING SOME VERY PROACTIVE PREVENTION WORK, AND MY GOALS WILL BE ATTAINED ONLY THROUGH THE HELP OF THE AMWAY CORPORATION. WHO KNOWS WHO ELSE IS OUT THERE WHO MAY WANT TO DO SIMILAR THINGS. YOU MAY HAVE STOLEN THEIR DREAMS, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT GREAT THINGS YOU HAVE PREVENTED IN THE PROCESS.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 07 Dec 1997 . . .and I have to laugh! Dammit if that wasn't what I experienced! Unfortunately for me, this came to late. I spent (wasted) TWO years in Amway! Yep, I bought the tapes, read the books, went to the meetings, the whole bit. I unsuccessfully tried to recruit people into my liitle flock; I managed ONE guy downline. But boy did I spend money! The big- gest expenses were the conventiions. Twice my girlfriend went (!) and we argued each time. I was the one that made all the hotel accomodations (my brother was my upline sponsor). What a pain in the ass! I still want to get into my own business and work out of my home (on the PC my girlfriend and I spent big bucks for). What that will be I'm not sure (any suggestions will be appreciated) but I'll be DAMNED if anybody will mention Scamway to me ever again! Thanks again for that riveting story!
Subject: Amway, LifeSpring, and brainwashing Sun, 07 Dec 1997 Russell, I came upon your chat page after running a search on "LifeSpring." I just came out of their "motivational seminar" which was more like the first step to the brainwashing process of a harmful institution, and felt, well, that the long-time participants approached me like Amway representative did years ago. (Lord knows how I attract them, since I don't buy into it and don't respond to their "motivational" techniques, which are not-so-carefully crafted guilt-trips, in my opinion.) Anyway, I'm writing because when I scanned the page I saw lots of Amway, but don't know where the LifeSpring (related to EST) came in. I want to do a similiar page to yours, as well as using the material to write articles explaining the difference between a good seminar and a bad one. Just looking for your feedback and input. And thanks for the page -- some of the stories are great. When I'll have time I'll write my Amway story about the two college guys in suits I cooked dinner for, listened to their line of garbage, chatted with them and then sent them on their merry way. I felt like the middle aged spinster who invites the vacuum cleaner salesman in for dinner because they're cute, but had no intention to buying a vacuum cleaner.
Subject: Amway Sun, 07 Dec 1997 I appreciated your page. April 1989 my then husband and I joined Amway. I agreed becasue I thought maybe he would actually do something to support our family. After a decent year of sponsorship, (I sponsored - he, being the man, was the "leader")we began speaking a local rallys - all of the hype. Problem was, his ego became so enlarged, our financial situation became so bad -yet we were told to put up a "rich" image. I continued to work to support the family of five while MR AMWAY, tried to look good, at all times. OUr marraige was failing, our kids were suffering, our life was miserable and MR AMWAY was out "COUNSELING" at all hours of the night. The kids and I left MR AMWAY about six years ago. My reputation was destroyed becaseu of MR AMWAY and his upline buds. Interestingly enough, MR AMWAY is on wife number three and has recently filed bankruptcy. That my friend - is the real AMWAY
Subject: Your Amway page... Sun, 07 Dec 1997 Hi Russell, Just finished reading about your Amway experience. I was involved with Amway for 3 or 4 months in 1994. I was blinded by the hype for a while. To make a very long story short, everything you say in your articles is an exact match for my experience with it. I too, am a computer programmer. My job involves programming for business accounting applications and sometimes is very stressful, so I often looked for a "better opportunity":-) In the "it's a small world" category, I work for a computer VAR who sold the software that Dexter Yeager uses in his company, Internet. Internet is one of two big companies that makes the tapes and other motivational materials. I myself was in the Britt organization. The company he owns is AMI which is in a town about 15 miles from where I live. My wife hated it the whole time I was involved. She couldn't understand why I needed to listen to all those tapes to get pumped up. At the time I thought they were positive and uplifting. I began to have doubts when I attended one of the big weekend functions, and on Saturday night at about 1 AM when it was over, I was told there would be a "night owl" at the room of one of my upline. I won't print here what I thought of that idea:-)))). All I could think of was getting some sleep. I got up the next morning at 8 and headed home which was about a 5 hour drive. Besides, I didn't like the idea of attending an Amway "church" service. I was very suspicious about that. I already attend Church almost every Sunday, and had no intention of making Amway my "religion". Even this was not enough to get me to quit. I kept at it for a while, and even got my wife to go to a local meeting (not a weekly one, but one of those celebrating someone going to the next level). It was sort of a miniature of the big weekender I had attended. When I left this, I new I was done. The atmosphere was almost eery. My sponsor and his wife were in the program and they appeared almost brainwashed. I had finally seen the light. I informed him after that that I needed to think it over and I would let him know. Thankfully, I haven't heard from them since!!! I'm still just making it by and making a living and enjoying watching my two wonderful kids grow up. If it takes Amway to put me on the beaches, I'll just have to stay at home. Thanks for all the time you have taken to put all this information in the WWW. Keep up the good work.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 7 Dec 1997 I was skeptical from the start when I received a phone call from I guy I barely knew stating "I've got a business opportunity that i'd like to show you." Immediately, I thought of AMWAY, but I could not confirm it. I went to a seminar last week. I noticed two things right away... Franklin Planners and Breath Spray. Let me start by saying that I am very much my own person. I march to the beat of my own drum and I am successful. I try to approach things with an open mind, including AMWAY. Problem is my family, friends and fiancee would never support me... too much negative publicity and not enough success stories. By the time you read this I will be meeting with the AMWAY guys again. I now have a list of questions that I will be interested to see how they respond. As the story goes, this may be for some people, but not me. Thanks for the information. Sometimes I tend to get caught up in the emotionalism of making money. I need a reality check every now and again... your story provided that. Thanks again.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Mon, 08 Dec 1997
Hi Russell - as usual, enjoy your page and responses. However, I went to
check out Sidney Schwartz's page and he is taking it off the net! Have you
any info about it beyond the message Sidney has left?
Such a shame - I hope he will be back.
Subject: Re: My reply to your Amway page
Mon, 08 Dec 1997
Yes, I have. I am in frequent contact with Sidney. He took down his
web page last night. He is involved in the Proctor & Gamble lawsuit
against Amway, and Amway is threatening a lawsuit against him. Sidney
thinks they couldn't possibly win, but also knows he doesn't have the
time or resources to deal with a frivolous lawsuit from a multi-billion
dollar corporation.
This isn't the only worrying news. Sidney thinks Amway has hinted at
the possibility that they will "contact" other web page owners. I don't
know if I'm going to get some pressure on me anytime soon.
I plan to make a mirror site available soon.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 08 Dec 1997 Russell: Thanks for all the info on Amway. You are doing a great job on informing the public of this company. I had a good friend approach me and sit down with me to explain the way we can change the way we buy products. We spent about 45 mins. going over the way we build a business, but he never informed me that it was Amway. He now wants me to come over his home to discuss this futher. As to his suprise I will not be able to after reading your stories and searching all of the info on the Net about Amway. I did however copy everthing I could to drop the info off to him.
Subject: Yeager-Britt Law suit Mon, 08 Dec 1997 Thanks for the information. Do you have copies of the law suit that was filed against Yeager and Britt last year in which they settled out of court? If you don't have this, do you have any idea where I can find it? Thanks for your help.
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 9 Dec 1997 Dear Russell, I just noticed that Amway succeed in closing down Sidney's site. I need a copy of the site and I will host it on my site, do you know where I can download a copy?? Thanks and best regards
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 08 Dec 1997 It is an amusing page. Have you ever been a distributor before? I would love to pay just $5/tape if I could. Where do you get these? I pay $1000's for the sales seminars I go to in my job. If these seminar things would teach me to sell better even if it were soap it would save me some money there. How do I find out more...
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Tue, 09 Dec 1997 MY BROTHER, HIS WIFE & KIDS ARE VERY INVOLVED IN AMWAY, AND UNFORTUNATLY IT HAS PUSHED US FARTHER & FARTHER AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. WE USE TO BE VERY CLOSE. EVERY SINCE AMWAY CAME INTO HIS LIFE, WE NEVER HEAR FROM HIM ANYMORE, HE BASICALLY HAS DISOWNED HIMSELF FROM OUR FAMILY, ESPECIALLY WHEN I TOLD HIM ON THE PHONE ONE EVENING THAT "HEY, WHEN YOU CALL I WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOU AND THE KIDS, NOT YOUR JOB." THAT PRETTY MUCH TOOK CARE OF OUR CLOSENESS. THEY PLAY AMWAY TAPES IN THE CAR ALL THE TIME (OWN A MINI VAN) AND THE KIDS KNOW EVERY LINE & CHILDRENS SONG THAT THEY DRILL INTO THEIR LITTLE HEADS. AND IF ITS NOT AMWAY TAPES, ITS RELIGOUS ONES. ( I GUESS THATS OK, IF THATS WHAT THEY LIKE) MY BROTHER USE TO LISTEN TO THE RADIO AND SING ALL THE TIME. NOW HE ONLY HAS TIME FOR THE AMWAY TAPES. HE DOSEN'T ALLOW HIS KIDS TO WATCH ANY T.V. NOR ANY MOVIESAND OF COURSE THEY GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS. THESE POOR KIDS ARE GROWING UP IN A VACUUM. ONLY JUST LAST YEAR DID HE ALLOW HIS FAMILY TO HAVE A XMAS TREE. ALL THE FRIENDS THAT WE SHARED GROWING UP NOW HATE MY BROTHERS GUTS. MANY OF MY FRIENDS TOLD ME TO "HAVE HIM QUIT BUGGING ME". HE WAS ALWAYS ON THE FANATICAL (SP) SIDE. ALWAYS TENDED TO GO OVERBOARD WHEN ENVOLVED IN VARIOUS VENTURES OR WHATEVER. ALL I KNOW IS ITS SAD NOT TO FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH HIM ANYMORE, AND KNOW THAT WHEN I TALK TO HIM HE'S ONLY HALF LISTENING, JUST WAITING FOR THE MOMENT TO START JUSTIFYING HOW RIGHT HE IS AND HOW WRONG I AM. I HAVE A FRIEND THAT WORKS AT A CENTER WHERE AMWAY ONCE HAD GIVEN SEMINARS. SINCE THAT TIME THEY ARE NOW BANNED FROM EVER RETURNING. THEY WERE SO INTIMIDATING THAT ALOT OF THE USHERS HAD TO HAVE COUNSELING AFTER THE AMWAY GROUP LEFT. (THEY HAD TOLD THE USHERS TO LEAVE THE THEATRE, AND WERE PACKING GUNS.) THE USHERS AND OTHER EMPLOYEES WERE AFRAID BUT DID NOT BACK DOWN AND TOLD THE AMWAY PEOPLE THAT THEIR JOB WAS TO BE IN THE THEATRE AT ALL TIMES. MOST OF ALL ITS JUST SAD TO LOOSE A FAMILY MEMBER TO AMWAY. I REMEMBER THE GOOD OLD DAYS, AND SURE WISH THEY COULD RETURN-BUT KNOW IN MY HEART THEY NEVER WILL.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 9 Dec 1997 Dear Mr. Glasser, I have glanced through your website and find a lot of work has gone into your site and its content. I am most certain if a similiar sort of effort, focus and dedication had gone into your network business, there would not have been a need for such a site.
True... because then I'd be too tired and downtrodden care.
Subject: Your Amway web page Tue, 9 Dec 1997 Dear Russell Glasser, I found your web page to be very good and for the most part relatively accurate. You have, however, made one serious factual mistake which I would like to correct. The Amway Corporation and the Amway distributors are legally separate and distinct businesses. This statement also applies to the major players in the business (Dexter Yager, Bill Britt, etc.). The Amway Business Opportunity as stated in the Amway corporation materials is a legal and bona fide business opportunity. The Federal Trade Commission says so. The Amway business as implemented by various Amway Motivational Organizations is however a different matter. The implementation of the business as mandated by the various Amway Motivational Organizations has a very strong recruiting element which likely makes it an illegal pyramid. Additionally, the sale of "tools" which is only sold to the distributors and where most of the money is made would most likely make these organizations an illegal pryamid. While the Federal Trade Commission has investigated the Amway Corporation, I do not think they have investigated any of the Amway Motivational Organizations. I became involved in the Amway business some years ago, before the Internet became popular, and persisted in it for about a year and a half. I can say that if the Internet was available when I was considering the business opportunity I would have investigated and consequently I would not have joined. I found the experience to be a learning and growing experience (learning people skills, learning how people think, etc), but it is a lousy business opportunity. What is most distressing is that most of the money to be made is made through tools and it is not even discussed when the business opportunity is presented. When I decided to discontinue the business my direct distributor called me and we had a discussion. I asked, "Where is the money? There is not enough in 'The Plan' to make it worthwhile?" He said, "Well, you make money on tools." Wish the internet was around when I was "in the business." It would have saved me a lot of time and a lot of money.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 10 Dec 1997 You seem to have done a lot of research here. The effort involved is rather impressive, to dedicate a web page telling us all the perils of Amway. The logic is clear, the maths easy to understand (pyramid saturation), the simplicity with which you denigrate a Multinational corporation shows the distributors for what they really are, misled fools chasing an empty dream for the sake of corporate greed. When Messr.s DeVos and Van Andel set about their evil scheme of world domination little did they know that they had you to contend with. I applaud such cynicism, perhaps you will be the first critic who has a statue raised in his honour. You may get followers when you start leading somewhere, I suspect that you are too afraid to do that. That fence you are sat on probably gives a great view over the underlings that require your protection and is probably too comfortable for you to make a move. It is sad that you cannot balance the page with some facts, though I doubt that you would even entertain the thought. Nobody who would have pursued the opportunity would give your page any credence anyway, so I suppose no harm is done.
Three cheers for empty sarcasm!
Subject: Your Web Page Tue, 9 Dec 1997 Russ........you are FUCKED..........and I love it! Keep up the good work, the world needs better games, and a better understanding of the Amways of the world. By the way nice to see you quoting RUSH, Canada's best kept secret...................
Subject: hello Wed, 10 Dec 1997 Hi, my name is ***** and I am an analist-programmer from Romania. I am interested to see what you think about Herbalife because I enter in this business. I am in Romania and in Internet I see only good things. Thank you for undersanding!
Subject: Your Amway page...
Wed, 10 Dec 1997
Hi Russell,
Have you seen the new Amway ad in Time magazine? I guess their word of
mouth selling is not selling enough and they are desparate for new
"customers". I have a Direct here at my office working on my project. I
expressed an interest in Amway a few months back saying firmly that I am
not committing to amything. He tried all his selling tactics with me. He
took me to a Britt meeting. I backed out when I realized what Amway was
all about and it pretty much matches your view. Since then he wouldn't
"drop in" at my cubicle to see me like he used to. He won't talk to me.
Not that it makes much of a difference. It lets me get on with my work.
But he is a great pals with my team leader and has been playing every
dirty trick in politics on me. He keeps a tab on my timings. (No one
comments yet on the fact that every now and then he has to rush to the
airport to pick up some bigshot in Amway). Luckily for me my Project
manager is quite happy with my work and made the remark that if there is
something wrong with my timings, she doesn't see it. I wonder how long
it is going to take him to play politics to try to get me in her bad
books. So now I see what kind of social relationships they maintain. I
was approached twice in malls by Amway "distributors". Both Indians. I
told them both about your site and other related sites and told them to
do their homework more thoroughly. Sure they are helping other people
get rich like they say; all these poor souls will succeed is in adding
to the coffers of all their uplines. For me, especially being an
Indian, it is very sad to see so many Indians being lured into this
"dream".
On request I would like you to withhold my name and e-mail id and
publish only my initials
Thanks
RK
Subject: Re: New Letter of the Month
Wed, 10 Dec 1997
Hey Russ,
I haven't had a chance to read the last spate of reader mail, but I wanted
to drop you a line in light of Sidney's decision to stop posting the AUS
files. I sent him an article about SLAPP laws (which make it illegal for a
large corporation to sue an individual protester), but I don't know if it
would protect him from Yager, Britt and all the other induhvidual
distributors. I'm hoping to get copies of the files and post an
unregistered mirror someday.
Also, I had another thought for the badly-defined pyramid argument. See
if this makes any sense. This is hypothetical, but my manager is an
example of it. He's retiring in 4 years at the age of 55.
For the last fifteen years, I've been working for the same boss. Our
relative positions haven't changed, but I haven't really worked very hard
to change that (wow, I sound like an Ambot explaining why he isn't direct
after 2 years...). Anyway, we had an interesting discussion about
retirement. He was about 5 years older than me and is worried because he
hasn't put much away. He has less that $50,000 in 401k and savings.
Meanwhile, I've been squirrelling away between 15 and 20% of my pre-tax
income. This was actually easy since I was got used to having a fun life
without spending lots of money. I also don't waste money on crap that
other people think I need (like Hummers, ultra-expensive homes, boats,
vacations houses and $3000 suits). Even though I make about $20,000/year
less than my boss, I've amassed (with compound interest and appreciation of
my mutual funds), nearly $500,000 in 401k and blue chip stocks.
So while he's making about $5-9,000/year on interest on his nest egg, I'm
making about $50-90,000! Doing the math shows that (oh, gee) I make more
than my boss! Oh, and by the way this is TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME. Granted,
the return varies year to year, but no more so than the number of
distributors that drop out of and Amway downline. The great part about it
is that I don't have to do anything (no meetings, no "helping people
achieve their dreams," and when I retire at 55, I won't even need Social
Security. This is interesting in that some Amway distributors claim that
98% of people who invest in the stock market lose money. Heck, I'll even
be drawing a pension for my job which will be icing on the cake (I happen
to be lucky that way).
And before you give me the tired argument about how many companies will
downsize and I'll be out of work way before then, ask yourself how many
Amway "businesses" downsized themselves out of existence. MLM claims to be
the answer, but the instability is TONS worse than corporate America. MLM
may generate an alternate flow if income, but how many of these "alternate
streams" do you need to match one median wage income? Last I checked,
Amway distributors make an average of $88/month, Excel $250/month ($30 if
you consider that 7/8ths of them don't get checks every month). Hmmmm,
only $1800/month left to go.
Lesson: If you don't "fail to plan" and "do the necessary work," not only
is it possible "to make more than the person who brought you in," you can
also avoid being one of the "95% who retire dead or broke" working in a J.O.B.
Therefore, corporate America is not a pyramid - according to the Amway
definition.
Subject: RAY Wed, 10 Dec 1997 Hey Russ.. I just got back! I just read you arguments ect...I don't mind critics in anything because it takes a critical mind to make a decent decision instead of mind less zombies. Man you make lots of people angry but you make me exercize CAUTION. Thanks! I understand your feelings and you have a express them. I heard lots of horror stories! All companies have to go through that stages especall MLM because of it's structure.I think the networks dealing with Amway made many mistakes and they are correcting it But I find most of the mistakes is incorrect ifo passed to some unfortunate person to another. I think to build amway you have to have people skills ( books) and info on how to pitch you sales and minimize on mistakes thus, Tapes. Its a marketing and number game! Number's game meaning you have to be willing for find out from the people who are happy with their lifestyle to build your team with who are willing to take an educated chance. The tapes are am must in this form of business. How will you share info? Example, dont say its amway, SMILE! Its cheaper for me making a business decison to buy a tape than flying all over the planet to learn from these succ. people. I perfer to buy a tape sell products that are good to best in price per a consumption ratio to fuel the business! I know amway will not always have a product I might like but someone else might like it.I am trying no to sound like a overexcited argumentitive fool but a business person. I make a call to my upline a couple minutes ago about the making money on tapes and tools. He will give me the info tonight. PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO GIVE ME YOURS. I will check it out! I tryed to read most of your stuff. I agree with you but those are the mistakes indepedent distributors make because the are miseducated. If you did I suspect you will never make a dime. If a person lies in a place of business and cheat people will get angry like you. I think amway is a good manafacturer and brokrage company. IF i am correct Neturlite ceo, kinda started MLM stuff but Amway is the oldest company to perfect it. They are the largest in all aspects. ( Products, Companies they do brokrage for, parts fo the world to access ect bla bla bla)! Companies who start some thing takes all the good and bad with starting it. Others finally see it's working and use the concept but they are just better all of a sudden. SMILE. What I mean is if the concept is so bad No other companies in the write mind would even associate their products with an bad company. That's overkill! Most people should consider carefully if they are willing to take a cheap risk in a business that can work verses an expemisve one . You definatly can get some great products if you business does not work. Frankly I cannot understand the risk in trying Amway?? These people should analize the business completely before making a decison? Some one in my Amway business, said the bad stuff to me. Honesly, the person did nothing in the business except come to a function and snuck in a bottle of brandy. I saw what was happening so I stop the tapes and help her sell some products so she can make up for her tape money. I make sure I kept a record of what the person spend and their actions bla bla bla and gave it to her. She saw with her own eyes all the hard work she put in for her millions PLUS Expense- Investment. She even spend money for food at the function and had a great time and blame me for her buying food to feed her face. Don't worry, I make sure she make that back too. The reason I am sharing this stuff with you is there will be people who build the Amway business but not all of them..that does not make them a bad people. They just could not handle this kind of business. Mabey they should buy HotDogs from a manafacturing company and sell it on the street or something that fits what they like the get in return for the hard work. I notice most of the less the average distrubutors in most MLM and other companies have very little people skill and refuse to learn. Just because they want a million and they cannot hit the lottery they force people or hunt them in malls ect. They make me sick! I don't think anyone can force me to do nothing I don't want for buy mabey TV or some mass media but not when we are dealing eyeball to eyeball. I am sorry you have a bad deal with the person showing you their indepent business using Amway and a manfcturing company and brokrage and you lost time and money. You design a pritty cool web page mabey you should get into that stuff. Thanks for the hints on the other companies. I will check them out because I like business. If you can prove to me Amway is illegial and any way I will personally Help you sue their ass. Russ, I mean Legal because I want their legal department online and in person to expain what you write me. Please sign the letter and date it. I hope we can chat sometime and I promise you I will not start a Amway talk if you don't. I like the web page and I would like to chat about that. Ps..Please forgive any grammmatical incorrect words. Happy Holidays
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Wed, 10 Dec 1997
Thank you Russel,
To tell you the truth, I had my run-in back in 1994 in Virginia Beach,
VA. The reason that I'm thanking you is for the people that have not bought
their "kits" yet. I was not so fortunate and still use the spray bottles as a
reminder of more naive times. I was never able to put my finger on it, but I
always knew that something was wrong.
I only have one more thing to say. I think you have succeeded. Your story
was fascinating and kept me on the edge of my seat.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 10 Dec 1997 I absolutely loved your response to the letter of the month! I literally laughed out loud at my terminal! That was awesome!
Subject: my opinion Wed, 10 Dec 1997 You should be more like Abe Lincoln and not criticize.
What on earth did THAT mean? And what were the famous Lincoln/Douglas debates about if not criticism?
Wed, 10 Dec 1997 Subject: Love the page! Hi Guy... Just wanted to drop you a short line to tell you that I love the page. Keep up the good work. I was recently acosted by a co-worker and had the scam played before my wife and I. Her (the co-worker) upline (I called him her "capo"-based on the cosa nostra term) was the one who told me that the company was Amway. I knew that Amway was a cult, as I have investigated them in the past on my job as a detective. I told him that I would never subject my family to a cult like Amway. The guy stood up, got real huffy and started yelling at me in front of my family-telling me that I was doing them a huge disservice. This was a big mistake. ( He was about 5'6, 150 lbs. I'm a 6'1", 285 lb. Italian powerlifter with 19.5" arms and a 54" chest.) I told him that my protecting my family is far from a disservice and to get the hell out immediately while he was still able to walk on his own. Needless to say, the co-woker tried again and I responded with some interesting documents of my own about Amway. I think I will print a few tidbits from your page and share them with her as well. By the way, not only is she losing money, but she lost her job over Amway because she was spending too much time at work scamming people for Amway instead of doing her job. Sad, isn't it? Anyway, take care.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 12 Dec 1997
Dear Russell:
Your webpage is great! I had a run in with amway about 2 years ago, and found
out what you found out. But their is something you don't know about amway, and
is this may sound highly improbable to you. Remember that if some one were
to tell you that a huge corporation in America was brainwashing its
customers, you would think him crazy.
To belive what I am about to tell you, you must 1. believe in God & you
must be familure with Revelations ch13 ch 18 v3, at this point you probably
think I am a religious nut. If you keep an open mind and read the last book
of the bible, you may be granted the ability to understand the figurative
language that allows people of our time to understand the message.
Their are dreamers which God talks about, read up on it.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Fri, 12 Dec 1997 keep working for someone other than yourself, Russell you need to.
This is from an online friend of mine who goes "adventuring" with me from time to time in something called Ultima Online. I idly suggested that she read over my webpage and give feedback one day. Don't be thrown off by the fact that she calls me "darling"; she's a shameless flirt in our imaginary game world but in reality she's married.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Mon, 15 Dec 1997
Russell Darling!! (aka Kazim)
Finally visited your Web Page today, and Yeah - I read the whole
freakin' thing. I felt like I was reading a Stephen King novel. How
creepy, eww. I kept waiting for this Phil guy to turn into Pennywise,
the Clown from "It". LOL
[Long segment snipped about tracking down a virtual boat and a lot
supplies in the game]
Back to Amway - my friend Jay tried to get me to join when I was in High
School - took me to meetings and everything. Even back then, I thought -
"Eww, this looks exactly like those Jim Jones pictures I've seen. Too
weird." I told Jay, "But I'm a big flake, and I don't have any money!"
that was enough for him *grin*
[Personal camaraderie and some jokes snipped]
Love your Web Page, Darlin! Lot's of people need to know about this
stuff, and I'm proud of the stand you took! Not everybody's like me (I
get the *creeps* a lot in fishy situations!) a lot of them are blind to
this stuff! Good job!!
See you soon, I hope
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Mon, 15 Dec 1997
Hail Killa,
[Flirting/jokes/razzing about the game snipped]
Anyhow, about Amway... when you told me your mom was in and you like
the products, I was afraid you were going to turn into another one of
the defensive ones. I should have known better.
Most people who were "almost" members but turned away go through life
with this vague feeling that they might have made a big mistake, or they
think there is something terribly wrong with the whole situation. Or
sometimes both. I try to make people feel better by pushing them back
in the direction of "It's them, not me" -- mainly because it's true.
Subject: Re: Finished your Amway story...
Tue, 16 Dec 1997
Gaak!! Not me! I thought those people were creepy from the beginning - eww!!
I kept wanting to say "HEY!! It's just soap! Don't get so damn excited!" I
couldn't tell you because it's hard to talk over ICQ, but my mom joined,
bought a lot of soap (nothing else, we didn't think anything else was that
great a deal, just bought cleaning products for a couple of months.) and
then let her ... policy? membership? whatever.. lapse. Heehee-her "upline"
person wasn't too happy about it OHWELL!!
Oh "Killa"... I think you're going to turn bright red when you realize what you must sound like to people. ;)
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 16 Dec 1997 Thanks for your Amway story. I am not even remotely contemplating joining it, but I have a friend who is in it. And I always had a slightly bad feeling about it -- intuition -- and so I searched the Internet to see if there was "bad" stuff about it there, and sure enough there was -- lots of it! So, thanks for putting your story up here on your web site. It was very interesting. Sure sounds "cultish" to me!
Subject: Your Amway page... Tue, 16 Dec 1997 Hello, My name is ***** and I was looking for information on any lawsuits or other actions that have been filed against Amway. I have found some on the net as well as on Lexis-Nexis. If you have any knoweledge of lawsuits and where they have been filed, I would greatly appreicate it. A friend of mine almost got involved in this Amway situation and now he would like to try to convince a few other people to back out. I know that Amway has suffered some adverse judicial judgments and was just looking for more info. Thank you for any help you can give.
The best place to read about lawsuits is on Sidney Schwartz's page, which is now mirrored on this site.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 16 Dec 1997 As someone who partisipates in the MLM industry I would recommend two books for you to read on MLM. These books do not advocate any particular company but rather, they look at the industry as a whole. The author, Richard Poe, spent a bit more time than "three weeks" taking a serious look at the MLM industry. Mr. Poe is not a partisipate in MLM and during the time he wrote the books he was the senior staff editor for Success Magazine. Your misunderstanding of the industry is not uncommon. To catagorize an entire industry as a "zero sum gain" is either naive or an attempt to be manipulative and as misleading as Amway was with you. Wave Three Wave Three How to Build Your Downline.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Wed, 17 Dec 1997
Hi,
We are economics students doing out research on MLM's like Amway
.We are trying to compile some distributor information. Does the
information you compiled include some distributor information? We would
be grateful if you could give us some information or tell us of some
source where we could get some information.The information we would like
from any ex or current distributor is :
(1) what was their profession when they joined Away?
(2) What was the level (direct , diamond etc.) of their sponsor ?
(3) What is their and their sponsors current levels ( or when they left
their business)?
(4) How long were/are they in the Amway business?
We would be grateful if you could give me information on any of the
above questions. we don't require the names of any distributor and the
information we get will be used to run some regressions
Thanks
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Wed, 17 Dec 1997
In fact I'm not a distributor and don't keep in close contact with any
distributors, so I'm not the best person to ask. But you shouldn't have
a hard time of it: about 1 person in 150 in America is an Amway
distributor, and they try to stay very visual.
What I suggest is that you either look for local meetings in your area,
or you track down any of numerous classified ads that are trying to
recruit people into Amway.
If you look for meetings, check any nearby convention center schedule
to see if they are hosting any of the following names:
INA (International Networker's Association)
World Wide Dream Builders
Network 21
Britt International
I'm sure everyone there will be eager to be interviewed.
If you are looking for a personal classified ad, you may have a harder
time spotting it, since most ads use the "curiosity approach" where they
won't tell you it's Amway. Look for catch phrases like,
"Tired of making your boss rich?"
"financially independent" or "financially free"
"build a second income in your spare time"
anything using the word "downline" or "distributor".
Anything that advertises a "great business opportunity" but doesn't go
into details.
If you call the person on the ad and tell them you want to interview
them or their upline, I'm sure they will be helpful to a certain point.
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