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Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 2 Apr 1998 I have never been involved with Amway but know those who have. They became successful by working hard. If you can't do that I'm sorry. What do you think McDonald's is? Do you really think large companies like Visa and Shell oil would associate with a business that is borderline illegal? My advice Get a life. Please, just because you couldn't make it work leave the rest of the world alone.
Subject: Crown Directors-Amway Fri, 3 Apr 1998 Dear Russel Crown Directors in the Amway Pyramid seem to be quite successful inspite of what you say. What exacly is their relationship and how do they get this far in amway? Tell me I am debating the issue of joining amway regards arun
Subject: about your web page Fri, 3 Apr 1998 I really enjoyed reading your story about your Amway experience. I, too, am glad that you are getting more response from people about your story, per your epilogue. I have a good friend who has been dabbling in Amway for two or three years. He did the presentation for me ( I've known him for fifteen years and never saw him in a suit ! I didn't know what to make of it. ) I am uncomfortable talking about " his business " with him. My mother tried " the business " when I was little and will never forget the experience I had as a child from one of her group members. We were really poor and we struggled not only for groceries, but ,our homes were not what you'd be proud to bring friends home to. At an Amway meeting an older gentleman came up to me and after smiling proudly over his beautiful home and all that his daughters owned he asked me if I would like a house like his. Of course I replied yes. He told me that I should keep after my parents to sell Amway and then I could live in a house just like his someday . I would like to meet that man to this day and let him know how cruel that was to say and how he dashed my hopes that day. I knew that my parents wouldn't keep doing the Amway thing because I would hear their doubts at home at night about their " business ". I felt my self esteem plummet that day even lower and knew then that that guy looked down on us. Suddenly he didn't look so helpful anymore but appeared mean to me. When my friend called me one time and asked me if he could do a little presentation for me I asked him right out if it was Amway. He was quiet for a minute and then told me, " Yes, but I wasn't suppose to tell you yet. " I told him what I thought about "that company" and he gave me this long speech on how the "old" company use to be. To make a long story short, he is different now and when I say anything about the company he gets very defensive and he even raises his voice to me on it and he has never raised his voice to me on anything before. My friend only wanted an old barn to renovate , thinking that furniture wasn't a necessity. He use to think that anything other than food or neccesities was a waste of money and that consumers were being brainwashed by the media to spend their life savings on junk. Now he tells me that success is a cadillac in the driveway and that he can wish it there with his " faith formula". He wants houses all over the country and watches the motivational videos from the upline showing their excessive riches. He is slowly being infiltrated with greed and led by their distortions of scripture to prove their business. As his friend , I listen to his tapes with him but the gut feeling is discomfort. His upline even incorporates unscriptural doctrine to enforce their underlying tenents of prosperity. Being a christian woman, I was terribly insulted with their way of taking scripture out of context. I have heard, for myself ,on those tapes you spoke of their insults aimed at people who want to succeed at other things besides Amway. In closing I just want to thank you for your web page. I have been looking for someone to put into words the reasons for my discomfort. You have nailed the whole thing down correctly. Thank you, thank you. I will direct my friend to your story when he is in town again. I hope that maybe your story and concrete evidence will sway him in the right direction.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Fri, 03 Apr 1998 Thank you for spending a weekend putting it together in such a truthful and coherent way. If you had ever been an Amway rep, you probably would not have been able to communicate it so effectively. My story is short and bitter. An old friend wanted to "help" us get back on our feet while my husband was struggling to work an engineering design business out of our home. We followed up simply out of friendship and lack of anything better to do with our time. We were interested in the pitch, but knew enough to recognize it was too good to be true. We had plans to visit the friend in another city a few weeks afterward and literally walked into a weekend of entrapment. Thown on top of the money angle was an ego hook of having a direct upline that included the daughter of a world renound minister both my husband and I admired. We took the bait and spent six months digging ourselves into a financial hole that 3 years later we still can't see the top of. I cleaned out a corner of my garage just last weekend and threw out approximately $2,000 worth of motivational (READ brainwashing) tapes, recommended reading (i.e. mental programming) books, promotional materials for recruiting downline, and sales materials. Our credit which we were just rebuilding from the oil bust of 1987 went back down the toilet.... along with all those wonderful Amway products that are "guaranteed to be the best on the market." We've got well over $10,000 in credit card debt in return for our Amway experience. My husband was forced to abandon his home business and return to a full time job, and the old friend is no longer anywhere in our lives. The irony of this is that within those few short months, we actually accomplished the first big goal of 1,000 PV and got those stupid pins....which we received about six months after we bailed....but we never met the big time minister we were told was anxious to make our acquaintance. Amway is a total scam and a cruel lie. Thank you for exposing it to the world.
Subject: Appreciation of your Amway page Sat, 4 Apr 1998 ***** was just approached by a person at church to "Please look at this videotape, and tell me what you think. I'm thinking of getting involved with a business opportunity since I'm at home with the kids, and I'd like you AND YOUR HUSBAND to watch it and get back to me." Well, that was our first clue! The other clues included the following: the NEVER NAMED company that offered this UNIQUE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY; all the testimonials were from COUPLES who were happiest with SPENDING MORE TIME WITH EACH OTHER, not their waterfront homes, huge RVs, or private airplanes; the hastily stated idea that the best way to earn more points was to get MORE PEOPLE to sign up for the company. We did some reasearch on the internet and found your page and others which convinced us that we were right. Your web page is delightful, and we have downloaded it to show to others. ***** has long teased ***** about having a "Hello, talk to me about Amway" sign on his forehead. Now, she appears to have one, too. Thanks for the links. We appreciate your time and effort. Best wishes for continued success. Your five years in Auburn, Alabama appear to have done you well. War Eagle!!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 4 Apr 1998 Go out and get off your butt and maybe you'll see what this business is really about.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 05 Apr 1998 I wish I had had the pure guts to do what you did. Even when i quite, I told them I quite because I couldn't afford it. So much for their guarantee--the person at the "company" told me to return some paper and they would refund my kit money--guess what! No refund! This entire business is a total scam from start to finish--and particularly, in retrospect, I think it could be classified as a cult. The trouble with this cult, however, is that they do not care about anyone else==even to not issuing bonus checks, stealing prospect--oh yes, this is wonderful "Amway Upline". I am very bitter about this business as it is called. the worst part of it is that I bit, hook, line and sinker, not once, but 4 times. What an idiot! Thanks for the good work you have done--perhaps there is unity and safety in numbers--I would like to think that we can do some good in this world.
Subject: You're attitude successful... Sun, 5 Apr 1998 Well, did you get the subject; It takes Attitude to succeed! Just like your website . . . if you put as much good attitude into something posative as you do this website . . . you would succeed at that. I think you were just mislead by sidney . . . Or didn't you know . . . Sidney was found to not ever have been an Emerald Direct. He had a grudge against an Emerald Direct though. I think his grudge was a deep seeded lack of self esteem. The poor guy quit and he knew it. It's hard to take the fact that you quit something without ever really trying it first. So Attitude . . . what will you do with yours . . . corrupt people's minds and potential at no profit or call me and see what it really takes to succeed and become financially secure. I know it would take a sliding of your ego, but untill you change your attitude, you'll never change your life . . . unless you like working all those long hour. I guess I better go now . . . your Boss is coming and you might get in trouble for playing on the Web. LOL!!! Tim
That letter was CC'd to two others, (all three of them had AOL addresses), and one of them apparently mailed back to all recipients:
Subject: Re: You're attitude successful...
Sun, 5 Apr 1998
HEY TIM
IT HARD TO READ YOUR MAIL BETWEEN MY LAUGHING AND CRYING ,YOU ARE
RIGHT ON THE MONEY. I THINK A LOT OF THE WAY YOU NOW LOOK AT THINGS COMES
FROM THE TAPES YOU HAVE BEEN LISTING TO AND THE ASSOCATION YOU ARE IN .BIRDS
OF A FEATHER DO FLOCK TOGETHER... I LOVE IT.... KEEP IT UP
I ALSO LOVE THE MESSAGES AND E MAIL YOU SEND TO ME.
LETS SPEND SOME TIME TOGETHER ON THE BEACHES OF THE WORLD.
LOTS OF LOVE ALWAYS
YOUR FIRED UP DAD
Subject: Re: You're [sic] attitude successful...
Tue, 07 Apr 1998
Hi gang,
Got your letters and was greatly amused. Would you AOL kids like to
enlighten me with your successful attitudes, and tell me how much money
you personally pulled down from the business last month? :)
> Or didn't you know . . . Sidney was found to not ever have been an Emerald
> Direct.
Sid has become a personal friend of mine. He never claimed to be an
Emerald Direct. In fact he began researching Amway long before he
joined, and only signed as a distributor to get hold of some of their
business material for further investigation. You may also have heard
that he became a legal consultant for Proctor and Gamble for their two
lawsuits against Amway, one of which Amway settled out of court last
year and the other of which is ongoing.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Sun, 05 Apr 1998 I had to write again--I read the first batch of comments on your page. Those people who flame you are totally and absolutely nuts. I'll tell you what I would never go to a doctor who is a member of a cult Who knows what ideas he has about medical care--if someone in Amway decided that all people over 50 should die, the doctor would probably cooperate--after all he went to a weekend function where everyone said "Fired up, fired up, fired up, kill 'em, kill 'em, kill 'em." My opinion is that is if this organization goes much farther, we will not have any clear thinking people, dedicated to the premise of freedom, and with enough self respect, and ability to think and reason for themselves, to carry out the requirements of the years to come. Just imagine the children, trained to chant with all the others, trained to believe that the almighty business is the end-all, be-all--that we must put the business first. Oh yes, they say God is first, but it seems to me that the God of the average and above average distributor is Amway--money, greed, cheating, stealing, lies--well, you know. You don't need to publish because I am more vehement than most. My husband and I are senior citizens--he is a survivor of an always fatal cancer. By the grace of God he has survied. His medication bills are horrendous, and we were informed by upline that--you must do what it takes to attend the meetings. You must skip the house payment this month, or do without food, or sleep in your car, or yes, do without medication. The worst that could happen is that he could die, but the Amway distributors will always be there for me. If they really wanted us to be at the meeting--that the meeting would most certainly push us off with a big boom--then maybe they could have made it possible for us to go. God forbid! Then we would be obligated to stay up until 2:30 in the morning and listen to all the lies and propaganda. We would be obligated to attend the "church services" on Sunday morning--which are as alien to our form of worship as messengers from Mars. My husband is an Anglican priest, and we really don't need that. Oh, yes, the cult was almost the finish of us--and then, we read the internet and found out we weren't the only ones. God bless you all. Our prayer is that God will give you all the wisdom and courage to get out of this mess before it destroys you. Love and best regards (sincere love, not Amway love).
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 6 Apr 1998 I have an old roommate from college who wants to get together and tell me about his "new business." His words are deliberate and vague. I was 100% sure he was into something multilevel, but I did not know what. I called a mutual friend who confirmed my belief - AMWAY. Now I am trying to find a way to continue avoiding him. He is in hook, line and sinker, with such classics as "I'm sitting on goldmine here and I'd feel bad if I didn't share my gold with you" and "I'm in the business of helping people." I am seeking your advice as to how to let him know I no interest in either buying his overpriced garbage or joining his cult. Any suggestions or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 07 Apr 1998 hey russell, Amway "salespeople" are like the borgs in Star Trek, just stand still and they will walk around you. Good article! I feel the exact same way... I was on the internet looking for Amway's Homepage and ready to start a "BIG BUSINESS" when I ran across your site. Thanks for the info..... R Honolulu, Hawaii
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 07 Apr 1998 ...and thank God! You're experience with Amway helped me reassure doubts I was having about an MLM I was getting into. Your experiences frighteningly parallel mine. I knew something wasn't right when I felt this sinking feeling in my stomach, but I was blinded by the 'wealth'. I was probably at a great spot at the top of this MLM pyramid due to the people I knew; and I would probably make some good money. But how could I convince other people to get involved with something I didn't truly believe in? Someone at the bottom was going to lose $300. I thank god that I kicked into 'rational' mode and realized the serious ethical and legal considerations with most MLM's. I said I had more taxes to pay than I had expected (some truth to the statement). Good luck in your pursuits. I myself will attempt to pursue my entreprenual desires (I opened a Fortune Cookie last night that said 'Your business will assume vast proportions' - how appropriate!) Thanks again, your story-book flow makes this piece a very good read.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 8 Apr 1998 Mr. Glasser, Thank you for sharing you experiences with Amway, I had my first meeting with some distributors in my home last night (4/8/98). They were very convincing, but wouldn't ask specific questions. After some research on the Internet, Your web page and a few others, helped me decide that not to go near Amway with a 10 foot pole. Thank you very much for helping me not to make a big mistake.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 08 Apr 1998 Russel - I've just finished your amway tale and found it quite chilling. Ironically, I came across your page as I was searching for amway background, just as you did. No, I haven't met my Ted, thank God...although, probably worse, I was looking to find him for myself. Anyway, I wanted to take a moment to thank you for sparing me a horrible experience.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 09 Apr 1998 Russell, I was doing some personal research on the web when I found your page by chance. GREAT WORK! And no, your experience has reached people all around the world, I guess, since it has reached me here in Lebanon. Yours is a story of courage and "freethought" if you permit me the expression. Bravo! Beirut, Lebanon
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 08 Apr 1998 We are supposed to meet with someone very soon about joining Amway-I wanted to get some info on and ran acrossed your web page. I think I will listen to this first pitch and see how it goes. Of course, if it comes even a millimeter close to what you have explained, I will be running and running fast away from Amway. I will let you know how it goes.
Please do!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Wed, 8 Apr 1998 Hi, One of the best things about the Internet is the fact that anyone can be a publisher. I stumbled upon to your Amway site from Yahoo! after looking for anything Amway. I had the (dis)pleasure of attending an introductory meeting a couple of days ago and the coincidences are remarkable (but not surprising, since most people are touting the company line). Anyway, thanks for saving me at least $150! :-)
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 9 Apr 1998 Very interesting indeed, 2 weeks ago i met a friend i hadnt seen in about 18 months. We went skiing and were talking about luxury automobiles on the way home..... the perfect lead into how to make the money to own one. Anyway, he phoned me a few times for coffee... I had other plans, but i finally agreed to go to a meeting with him at someones house. I have to admit it was very convincing.... but I had questions, he met me 4 days later for coffee and answered all my questions and i was convinced again. Looking for more info I have found your webpage and I must thank you tremendously. There are alot of similarities and I agree with your cult theory. Im running away from amway no worries. Thanks again.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 10 Apr 1998 we are former scamway automatons. we found your website to be enlightening, humorous, and encouraging. we related with most of what you said. many of the things you said were conclusions we had come to on our own, amazing, and it was affirming to read your thoughts.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 11 Apr 1998 I am an Italian boy that do Amway and that he believes in his philosophy. I am sorry dear Russel for you. yours is only A YOUR EXPERIENCE, and enough. You could not tell yours in this way only BECOUSE he you doesn't go for you!
Subject: "Black Holes in MLM" Sat, 11 Apr 98 Stumbled across your page while researching, and trying to escape from a different scam being perpetrated that has many of its roots, I'm sure, in the beginning philosopies that Rich DeVoss and company started 30 plus years ago. This one deals with life insurance plus an alleged high-roll-up profit picture in the securities field. Have you any 1: interest 2: information about how to escape from these over-evolved sc(am)emes? Have to give 'ya credit for a pair of big brass ones to dedicate this much effort to your new ..pick one..endeavor..expose..religion.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sun, 12 Apr 1998 Russell, As I read your tirade, you seem very upset. My question is why? I was looking for some information regarding a CFP (John Sestina) who has a television program on a "college by tv" station in the Columbus, Ohio, area. Instead, I found your page of anger. I don't know who Ted and Phil are, but I can tell you several things. Number one, over the last 8 years, I have been shown the Amway marketing plan several times. In that time I have neglected to get in, but no one has called me up, bugged me at home or anything of that nature, with the exception of calling me once to see if I wanted to get together with them to discuss the "opportunity". Had you not felt it necessary to deceive them, you probably would have been left alone also (I don't know this, since you may have run into some unscrupulous distributors). Regardless of their response to you, and your need to deceive them, you should be aware of a few things. First of all, are you carrying around anger due to the situation? Seems like you are. If you are, how is that helping you? Seems to me like they have won, if you're the person who is all upset. Secondly, what a childish way to argue with them. Your final lunch with them seems so childish. It's obvious you're in college, because any ADULT would have conducted himself in a more mature fashion. You're a boy in a man's body. I hope you can have more maturity in job interviews and in heated discussions at your job, or your hope of having any income in your life, other than government subsidized educational grants, is pretty minimal. Finally, if a bunch of people are happy, why do you need to destroy that for them? Are you so miserable that anyone with a goal or dream is a threat to your little world. Is it so important that you need to erect this website simply to put them down. Amway has been around for 40 years (one of the facts I still recall), and will likely be around a long time. In that time, some folks will become Diamonds, and others will simply add some substantial income to their pocket. The couple of friends I've known who are Amway distributors haven't seemed to be burning a lot of cash on these "functions". They also don't go around talking business all day long. However I do believe that at their Amway parties and meetings, they would talk business, simply because they all have that one thing in common. If I went to a Nissan 300ZX Owners' Club meeting, I wouldn't go there to talk about politics. Nor would I go there to convince them all to sell their damn Rice-burning deathtraps and buy Corvettes. I RESPECT their right to meet. Seems like you don't have a lot of respect for anyone, Russell. I hope you at least have respect for God, because if you don't, there will come a day when you'll have no choice but to respect him. Russell, you seem miserable. I personally don't agree with Phil yelling at you, however, you DID lie to him, and regardless of your interpretation of the facts, Phil did not tell you anything he didn't believe was true. You, on the other hand, knew you were lying to him right from the start. So YOU are the one with the unresolved anger, YOU aimed to and successfully deceived him, and yet YOU think you're the winner here. Since when does lying, acting like a child in a restaurant, and setting up spiteful web pages, make someone a winner. You sound more like the Unibomber than some great "Savior" of people who are being "manipulated" by Amway. And seeing as they are happy, and YOU are miserable, I think they've won. And if the Amway business continues to grow, with all this push toward in-home marketing and such, it looks like while you're working 55 hour weeks, plodding along to make your $35,000 a year, some of those folks will be achieving their dreams of spending time with their friends and family. So I ask you, Russell, whose the real winner here? PS - I hope never to run into anyone like you at the company I work for, since your bad attitude is contagious to any professional organization. Go find a therapist (I'm sure Ted can recommend one from Amway!)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Mon, 13 Apr 1998 Hey, I think you are doing a good thing here. I have recently been propositioned into this shit. So let me ask you this, should I trust the dick that tried to get me into it? And please tell me what I can tell him to make him feel like a shit for trying to fool me. Thanks. Good Job!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Mon, 13 Apr 1998 Hi! I applaud you for your write up on the Internet. I was approached by a long lost "friend" about Amway... Many of the things you said resonated with me and I wanted to let you know that you really have done a public service here, so I won't have to waste away my time...
Subject: Please help!!
Tue, 14 Apr 1998
Russell,
I have been an avid follower (sounds like Scamway doesn't it!) of your
web site for a while now. As an ex-distributor, I came across a very
disturbing article in an extremely well-known and(what
I previously thought of as credible) Australian business magazine called
"Business Review Weekly" (http://www.brw.com.au).
There was an article published by a Mr Neil Shoebridge who is the
Marketing Editor, in the April 6th edition, 1998.
In a sub-section of this article, Mr Shoebridge comments:
"Amway attracts a lot of critics. Disgruntled former distributors,
customers who have been badgered to join the business, and people who
have no direct contact with the company routinely complain about
strong-arm recruitment tactics, inflated prices and exaggerated claims
about potential earnings.
Many of the complaints are ill-informed"
He also goes on to state further in the article that "The level of
critical noise surrounding Amway has declined in recent years..."
I am in the process of compiling documentation (including tapes)to send
to this gentlemen as I cannot understand how arrived at the
conclusion that complaints are ill-informed?
I would greatly appreciate help from anyone who has an anti-amway site,
as there was also some generally "positive" comment about Amway
corporation in another "reputable" Australian Financial Newspaper last
week.
If your valuable time permits, I would appreciate if you could forward an
e-mail to this gentleman directing him to your site:
webmaster@brw.fairfax.com.au (this was the only e-mail address for the
magazine).
I hope you can be of assistance.
Subject: Anti-Amway sites
Mon, 13 Apr 1998
To the editor of "Business Review Weekly":
I've recently heard about an article that you published in your
magazine regarding Amway and negative publicity. Apparently Neil
Shoebridge wrote an article asserting that criticism of Amway is
uniformly "uninformed", and that "The level of critical noise
surrounding Amway has declined in recent years."
Let me assure you that the level of critical noise is neither
misinformed nor declining. By way of demonstration, I would like to
direct you and your readers to my own web page
and also to an excellent web
page which was written by a former emerald distributor
Subject: Your response to my e-mail
Thu, 23 Apr 1998
Russell,
Thanks so much for responding to my e-mail to the Australian Business
Review Weekly.
I've sent a letter and some other material (tapes, articles), so I hope
it gets through to someone.
I'm in the process of setting up an Australian anti-amway site (this
might take a while though - I'm in the middle of an MBA - "what a loser"
my upline would have said!!).
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 15 Apr 1998 Russell Do you have any information on Primerica (web sites etc.)? I agree with your story. I went to a meeting 20 years ago and did not join.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Thu, 16 Apr 1998 great story the key to exposing aAmway is the motivation rip off up to 80% of the top peoples income from motivation!!!!!!!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Wed, 15 Apr 1998 Thanks for the advice and information, one 'loser' that won't be taken,
Subject: Your Amway page... Thu, 16 Apr 1998 Hey, I wanted to let you know I enjoyed your Amway stories a lot. I found your page randomly surfing around looking for something interesting. I had my own "brush with amway" about 3-4 years ago--a guy who had sold me a couch a year ago at Slumberland (who I didn't remember at all) called me out of the blue and started talking about this fantastic business opportunity that would generate long-term residual income blah blah blah. Anyway I was miserable at my current job and figured it couldn't hurt to listen, so he was going to come to my house the next day at 7 pm. He showed up with another guy in a grey suit, flashy tie and diamond ring. I remember thinking upon meeting the other guy "here's a guy trying to look a lot more successful than he is." Anyway they started talking about their business, how it builds upon itself and would generate income even if they were suddenly disabled and couldn't work any more, that they put as much time into it as they wanted to and it allowed them total freedom, etc. Looking back I think I expressed a general disatisfaction with the 40 hrs/week "real job" (a lot of which I think is accurate, but anyway...) and they picked up on it and started talking about how I was working my ass off to make someone else rich. This way I could start my own business, still keep my job, sell anything from household products to autos to businesses and individuals. I had a high degree of skepticism talking to these guys. I'd been exposed to MLM programs before and determined that they were scams, but they made it sound different. Anyway I demanded a lot of information and they admitted that it was Amway (gag reaction!). But still, the initial investment was only $200 and I could use the products myself and maybe target business customers, I thought to myself. They stayed until 8:30, half an hout later than I wanted them too, and they ended up leaving me with an Amway catalog on all the fantastic products I could sell. Despite my core belief that these types of programs just don't work, except by bringing in new recruits, having them order stuff and sell some to their family and friends and quit in dejection within a few months--I thought maybe with my sales background it would be different, and that I could find a "niche" on some type of product. Anyway it took me two days to decide there was no way in hell this was for me. Three major factors: (1) just the association I had with Amway and would I want to be an Amway rep? (ackk...) (2) looking thru the catalog and deciding all the merchandise offered was at more or less retail pricing. (3) thinking of trying to persuade my family and friends to buy soap and shampoo from me--looking at all my personal contacts as potential "customers"--uggh. Bottom line, when he called back in a couple days I flat out told him I wasn't interested, and I didn't even have to endure an Amway meeting. But even though I consider myself to be a pretty logical and analytical person, in hindsight I can see that if my circumstances were slightly different I could have been persuaded to "go for it." Pages like yours are the great thing about the internet--I didn't even think to research Amway at the time. Anyway, I enjoyed your account. Please encourage Ginny to finish hers, it is interesting so far. Best wishes.
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 15 Apr 1998 Dear Russell, My twin brother and his wife have joined Amway. They are deep into it, spending way more than they make, and buying tons of tapes and books galore. Their entheusiasm is so overwhelming to me. But before I take the plunge I thought I'd do some searching. I came across your one of many sites. I must admit that you have given me much to think about. I feel shall forever remain poor, **sigh**. I feel saddened and depressed that one more dream has been torn out of my hands but at least I have not lost more money before having it torn out, and, for that, I thank you, dear friend. I can't thank you money-wise but if you want to check out my website and think there is any merrit to it I would love to hear from you. It is at: http:www.cardina.net/~nungessr My Amway brother can't stand it so there must be something to it? P.S. 90% of Presbyterian ministers would agree with my website though they are closet Universalists. I just like coming out of the closet. Sincerely Yours Tony
Subject: unethical distributors Thu, 16 Apr 1998 Thank you for your web page. It has helped me get through my awful Amway experience. It comforts me to read letters from individuals that have shared similar Scamway complications. I have a warning for everyone. There is a distributor named Andy Goodwin who is a manipulative actor. Mr. Goodwin lures people into the Amway business by lying about his pin level, income, upline, and he over charges for Amway kits. He claims to be a part of the Yager organization; however, he is actually downline from the Victor Organization. Mr. Goodwin worships his upline direct distributor, Bob Baker, who also continually lies and manipulates the business. These two individuals do not accurately pay bonus checks (they scim off the top) and they use questionable motivation techniques. Both of these individuals are under the tutelage of Diamond Dewey Tobias. Warning! Stay away from these individuals! They will take you for everything you have, lie, and brain wash you!
Subject: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 I read your Amway page and as a current distributor, I found it to be a bit of an exaggeration of what really goes on, although I suppose that is the whole point. I am not a "big pin", I have a few customers and a few people in my downline and usually receive between a $30-$100 check each month, although I do not currrently participate in the "system" of tapes and meetings. Amway is a reputable direct marketng company. Its products are of good quality and failry priced. They are not always the lowest price comapred to the competition, nor are they the most expensive. The "system", created by distributors, not the company, is a sales/motivational system used for people interested in building a very large business. The aspects of it that you liken to mind control you will find in any large sales force in any company in the country--Motivational speakers, large conventions, and personal testimoines of very successful reps. In any sales force in any company, you will find that not more than 20% (usually less) of the people are making any real income. Most people do not have the stomach for the massive rejection involved with any sales work. The "system" is a time proven technique of building cohesion and loyalty in a group of volunteers. Without regular events to bring a group together, trying to build an sales organization would be an 80 hour a week job. If you think the tapes nad rallies are expensive, go price similar items outside of Amway. A Steven Covey or Tony Robbins weekend seminar will cost you over $1,000 per ticket. I have never paid more than $105 for an Amway weekend seminar. Zig Ziglar motivational tapes or Nightengale-Conant tapes run about $12-15 per tape. Amway tapes about $5-6. I agree that some people use dishonest tactics to recruit people, and that is regrettable. That is why we don't mention Amway up front. There have been too many people get in the business and tarnish the name of a good company. Recruiting is not about trying to "Sell" as many people as possible into the business. It is about trying to find the 3-4% of the population who are serious about starting a business. The philopsophcal argument about everyone getting in isn't valid because it isn't reality, 90% of the people want a paycheck and security, not their own business no matter how good it is. Why doesn't anybody worry about P&G saturating when they control over 50% of the US market for household consumables, but they do about Amway, who control maybe 1%? Just some thoughts--no insults.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Fri, 17 Apr 1998
Hi Russell,
First a little background; I got my starter kit over 2 years ago, I attend
all the seminars and major functions, (with my wife, we enjoy the time
together, and it's a nice break from 4 kids at home), I receive 2 tapes a
week, and I am also on the book of the month club. Now, that being said I am
not what one (myself particularly) might call an "active" distributor.
To me, to be "active" I would have to be actively pursuing and building the
"BIZ", i.e.. building a clientele of regular customers and prospecting &
recruiting potential distributors for my organization (just like I have to
do in my other business). I have been doing neither. (I'll explain in a
moment)
Neither did I get a kit to buy at distributor cost. I got my kit because I
saw the logic of network marketing. I wasn't interested in all the hype
surrounding the presentation, all I said to my sponsor and his upline was
"show me the money!!". By the way, I contacted my sponsor to show me the
business plan. As I see it, with all the hype and emotion out of the way,
if you look at the business structure, how it pays out, the benefit of
residual "walk away" income and the long term time leveraging possibilities,
this business makes sense!!!! (to me anyways)
Un fortunately (and fortunately) you can't take the emotion out of this (or
any) business. Your own story and the purpose of this web site are emotional
responses to your experience. You feel very passionate (you must for all the
work you put in to it) about how YOU perceived the business and wish to
express your views about it! Go for it!
But I would like to make a point here, I have visited the few "Anti Amway"
sites (there are a lot more pro sites) and the one thing that I find most
disturbing is how you all paint everyone with the same brush. You appear to
try and express your own view but again emotion gets in there and regardless
of what you purpose you can't help but expound on all the "evil". Try as you
might you cannot give a balanced view of the business, just as my remarks
here will have a positive slant.
You can't possibly give a balanced view, you have such little knowledge
about what happens elsewhere in the business or in other organizations. To
my recollection you have no idea how I personally prospect or recruit,
unless you paint me with the same brush and just assume I do the same things
as your prospective sponsor.
I can't give a balanced view, I only have my own, and I certainly wouldn't
put up a web site to prove it! But I do commend you on posting all the
e-mail you receive. In its own way it is a far better yard stick for people
to judge how they might or might not work the business, rather than just
taking your experience as the decision factor. It is, in my opinion, the
best part of your site. Also in my (biased) opinion, there appears to be
more pro Amway messages, though I did not take the time to do an actual
count.
I had no intention of getting into such a lengthy reply, in fact I had no
intention of replying at all until I came across a comment you made in
response to one of the e-mails you received:
"I have no personal experience with Amway products. All I know comes
from Consumer Reports (quality vs. cost per use) and from price
comparisons done on other pages. I've heard good things from Amway
customers and I've heard bad things elsewhere."
Now I will have to admit here that I did not read your entire story, but I
got the gist of it, pretty standard fair, I read another one the other night
and he said the same things. My question is, or should I say comment because
I really don't need a reply, why do you suggest(?) that Amway is such a bad
deal when you have no personal experience with the products. If you have no
experience with the products, what knowledge do you have of the delivery
process, work required to achieve a certain volume level, or the ins and
outs of that part of the business that brings in the money, the PRODUCTS,
though it is not what builds a successful distributorship
Your comment only goes to confirm what I have heard from successful
distributors I've spoken with, this is a business of people not products."
People move products, products don't move people", heard that one before? I
think I got it off a tape! And people are moved to action emotionally not
logically (with finances in order, people buy a house on emotion not
logic). This brings me back to why I am not yet an "active" distributor. If
you will indulge me just a little longer I'll try to keep it short.
When I saw the business plan my sponsor had his sponsor with him. As in my
other business, when I'm making a "Pitch" to a prospective client, I try to
have someone with me. The idea is to take the focus off me and allow the
prospect to look at what is being offered.
The major part of their presentation was about the "DREAM". Like I said
earlier all I wanted to know was how do you make the money, let's get to the
point. Little did I know at that time that the dream is the point, and
dreams are nothing more than peoples' emotions coming alive.
For over 2 years now I have tinkered with the Amway business. I have
sponsored several, some have quit, and others are duplicating me, not doing
much of anything, some aren't even buying the most basic items, yet they say
they WANT to build a big business. But they have to realize, it starts at
home (no pun intended)!
I even have a few customers and I recently reached the 1000 PV level, and
guess what, I got to go on stage to get recognized for that and people
applauded me! If I put in the amount of effort it took to get to a 1000 PV
in a regular job in the length of time it took me, I would have been fired!
Though I felt a little sheepish about it (knowing how little effort it took)
I rather enjoyed the notoriety, even if it was short lived! Why? Because it
was emotional, and I now find myself wanting to do more! Am I being
brainwashed as is so frequently thrown around like some bad disease? I don't
think so, when you get congratulated at a job don't you feel better, don't
you want to do more so as to garner the attention of the boss again, to work
a little bit harder, and then maybe get a promotion and/or raise? This is a
business dealing with people, and when you deal with people, you deal with
emotions.
Let me wrap this up, I'm afraid I've gone on way to long and I'm just
warming up. First and foremost Amway is a manufacturer and distributor of
products. It has a compensation plan that has stayed pretty much the same
for almost 40 years with a number of added bonuses thrown in along the way.
It has a basic set of rules and regulations that dictate what you can or
cannot do as a distributor but you are left pretty much alone as to how to
build your business. Secondly a number of successful distributors have
developed "systems" that have helped to build their businesses by promoting
training and motivational materials.
I believe it is the second part that gets most people riled up, primarily
because it is the emotional side of the business. Good or bad it has proven
to be an effective way to build a people oriented business. Is it perfect?
of course not. Is Amway perfect? No. Should Amway do something about
settling the controversy surrounding SOME of these systems, maybe, but what?
Do you think Amway likes all the controversy, I doubt it!
And now I will end with this mantra, 40 years in business, $7,000,000,000.00
in estimated retail sales, (in Canada, where I am, that is over $10
Billion) over 3,000,000 renewed distributors, over 70 countries and
territories.....................................
Hope I haven't taken too much of your time to read this. Thank-you for the
opportunity, it has also allowed me to reaffirm to myself why I signed that
application over 2 years ago.
Take care, good luck in your computer business!
Subject: amway Fri, 17 Apr 1998 hi russell, I have been approached by the amway cult. how do I tell my dentist, who is heavily involved with amway that I am not interested in joining? don't forget this is the guy who puts a drill in your mouth! I think it's a cult too. they promise you the world and deliver soap suds! But they do make a few people big bucks, just a few though, and seem to have this group mentality.Like a wild pack of dogs ...anyway I know i would rather not be an amway representative....The chinese are used to being brain washed, so the market in china for amway looks promising! thanks for your web site on amway...
Subject: amway Fri, 17 Apr 1998 Hi Russell. I was just reading your Amway story (that was damn good writing) and it was quite interesting. My friend and his fiance are going to their first meeting tonight, and they were trying to get me to go. My first thought was "scam". Her sister has been doing it for years and she thinks it great. So I started looking on the web for info and I happened upon your story. Thanks for putting it out there!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Fri, 17 Apr 1998 I'M NOT AN AMWAY REP., BUT I KNOW A FEW--ANY YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS: HEARING ABOUT THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF AMWAY! I'M ASTOUNDED HOW ANYONE WHO HAS EVER PARTICIPATED IN CAPITALISM ON ANY LEVEL WOULD CONSIDER AMWAY A PROFITABLE BUSINESS. YOU CAN'T BE EMOTIONAL IN BUSINESS. THAT IS WHEN YOU MAKE DECISIONS OUTSIDE OF FACT WHICH LEADS FAILUR. AMWAY IS EMOTION, NOT BUSINESS.
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 18 Apr 1998 Russell I've been looking at your site for several months now, and you have been partially responsible for my decision to get off my butt, and start a much needed anti-Amway site here in the UK. I have been in E-Mail contact with Ashley Wilkes, and he made this suggestion. Please visit it at: http.wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/ronjohn_98/ I'm a total novice at this having purchased a PC with internet connection less than a month ago and have had to learn everything virtually from scrath (gosh HTML is a pain in the neck!). I realise my site is somewhat lightweight compared to yours, Ashley's, Charles's and others, but please could you consider a link from your site. I believe that mine is the only active UK site since the Amway Files became dormat. I would also appreciate any suggestions and advise, but please bear in mind that I am a forty year old with very limited computer experience. I basically copied my site from a floppy disc which contained the HTML format from WORD, but (when I discover how to use it) I have downloaded CUTE:FTP. I look forward to hearing from you. Best wishes
Subject: Your Amway page... Sat, 18 Apr 1998 Howdy, Your Amway page is hillarious! I am a single mother and became an Amway distributor about 5 years ago. I was gung-ho for about three years. I look back on it and get so mad at these people who "cared" so much about me and who encourraging me to spend lots of money even though I was seriously struggling financially. Didn't they care that a child's well being was being compromised?!! No. They just wanted me to keep on buying stuff I couldn't afford and didn't need, keep spending money I didn't have on babysitters, keep "doing whatever it takes" (i.e. use credit cards) to get to major functions, keep buying tapes, keep going out at night and letting someone else put my daughter to bed, etc. Can you imagine my upline saying "Don't worry about recommended tape. Once we've listened to the tapes, we'll loan them to you so you don't have to spend money on them." HA! Anyway, I love your page and I can't wait to get the rest of Ginny's story.
Subject: Your Amway page...How you will Benefit Tue, 21 Apr 1998 Dear Achiever, This is an invitation to become a member of the International Marketer's Group( IMG). Membership is absolutely FREE. and there is no obligation EVER !! [OBNOXIOUS SELF-PROMOTION DELETED]
These things are really coming in fast and furious these days, aren't they?
Subject: great home page- ***** from Western Australia Tue, 21 Apr 1998 hi russell, i just wanted to congratulate you on the time you spent on your amway page. i am in deep shock at the moment after visiting a friend on a sunny afternoon only to discover that another friend (***** only just met)present was going to introduce my boyfriend and i to a fablous business opportunity. i first was surprised when danny (first friend ) said "well lets get started" but assumed as the conversation proceeded that the business opportunity was a legitimate concern with some relation to electronic commerce. Both friends worked in the computer industry and my boyfriend and i have much interest in the accounting future on the internet so i listened with interest but became more and more disturbed as the probes into my personal life became deeper and deeper, quite disturbing from someone i have just met. what would you do if you had $1000 000 ? Would you work for free? No You must hate your job. You basically will be a loser if you do not take up this opportunity. How long will your course take for completion? Six years? He shook his head and told me well maybe you should think of other options. How arrogant. He then proceeded to lecture us on time and money and how we were wasting our lives and only losers work from 9 to 5, we have to look past our mundane existence and sign up with him. anyway Russell i know that you know all this and get thousands of emails. What disturbed me the most was the look my friend had of complete surrender and devotion and knowledge that this was the answer. As i said i am in deep shock. this movement is definitely a cult. i thank you for putting this on the net to help others, i am trying to think of an effective way to help my friend but as you know this is not easy. I also admire your father for the mature and sensible approach to your life. Your home page Russell is very interesting, would love to meet you regards and best of luck for your future career (not that you need it)
Subject: amway response Wed, 22 Apr 1998 I have some was ways to deter these crazy AMBOTS that approach us at stores(ie. Wal-Mart). When they ask you if you would be interested in making some extra money, say" I really don't have a need for more money, I have all the money I could ever want.". Then they will probably ask you what you do for a living and we could reply " We steal dreams and rob hopes from ambitious entrepreneurs like yourself!". I really wanted to e-mail you and tell you that your site has really hit home. I have a similar story to yours,however, it was not a stranger that tried to lure me in, it was two good friends. When I was in college a few years ago, my friends from back home approached me about a business(amway). They promised wealth and the works. I was excited at first, then I did my homework. I too revealed facts to my friends, only to be shot down with programmed comebacks. They told me to quit college because it would not benefit me in any way and all kinds of off the wall crap. Well, that's been two years ago and one of them has dropped out and the other is still gung-ho. The gung-ho guy quit college with only one year left and now he sells mobile phones in Wal-Mart barely making ends meet. I've lost two friends but gained a world of knowledge. Thanks for the Information!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Wed, 22 Apr 1998
hey Russell,
I just read your WHOLE Amway story. It's pretty long, but I think
you do a good job too. I see a mirror image of your sotry in me but
unfortunately I just spent the 150 dollars for the kit and decided today
while procrasinating finishing a computer program(I am a junior in
electrical engineering at the university of Texas) to look up Amway on
the net. I read a couple of other anti-Amway sites that didn't
convince me of anything except that those people were weak minded to be
able to succomb to this "MIND CONTROL". Your site, however, is
different as it tells the whole story revealing logically the tactics of
Amway. I am still not 100%(definitely not for it though) against the
Amway operation, but now that I have read your story it will be easier
for me to watch(w/o participation if I have to pay money) as these
things go on. Many of my highschool friends, including my
housemate(John), are getting involved with Amway as I email you and they
already are absorbed into it. W/o knowing it they are already like
"Ted" as they have sold the pitch to me convincing me that everything
would be allright. I am kind of interested to watch the video's they
sent me with the kit so I can see the repetitiveness that you told
about. It is kind of funny b/c John was contemplating skipping class to
"go over all of the stuff he received in his kit". If you like I will
email you more as life w/ Amway goes on or if that bothers you then I
won't.
Subject: Fwd: Great website - hopefully it will stop any more scamming...
Wed, 22 Apr 1998
Russell,
I am an ex-Amway distributor who can wholeheartedly agree with the entire
content of your website. I went through a similar brief experience with
Amway, with the major differences being that I DID pay the money to join, and
SUCCEEDED in achieving my 100 PV (translation - gift to upline). Also,
thankfully, my personality is mild enough that I was not really ever intense
about recruiting or trying to recruit, so I still have my friends and family
intact.
After about six weeks in Amway, my first bonus (?!) check of <$10, a
rally, several intense meetings with my sponsor, my sponsor attempting to
sponsor my wife's family (unsuccessfully), a general ill feeling of wasting a
large amount of time, and an increasing amount of money, discovering my
sponsor manipulated my wife and my emotions by pretending to be interested in
becoming good friends, listening to some Amway tapes which sounded like
strong-arm mind control tactics, I quit. Before I quit, I was strongly urged
to cough up $2000 (yes, that is correct), to attend an unforgettable upline
meeting in Hawaii. My sponsor tried to convince me that it made good
financial sense. That really was the last straw for me....
Incidentally, Amway is the strongest dream-crusher out there, unless your
dream is Amway. I'm very interested in stock market trading, and my sponsor
did his best to appear interested until I joined Amway, then after I joined,
I was told a bunch of negative stuff about the risk, etc. Since I've been
trading for over 10 years, I was instantly suspicious (correctly it turned
out) of a motive. As Mike Murdock (a leading evangelist I respect) says,
"The fastest way to destroy focus is to give a man two dreams." So, every
Amway person out there operating in "The System" will attempt to crush,
deemphasize, water down, or eliminate any other dream you may have that might
be successful without Amway. This explains the lack of interest in your
software skills, and the "cultish" feel of Amway. After all, if you succeed
in your other endeavours ( a lot more likely than becoming an Amway success
), you might become a threat by connecting with other dissatisfied Amway
distributors and liberating them from a low potential high cost Amway dream
into something worthwhile.
Another thing you might find interesting is that I'm a born- again
Christian. Some of the Amway culture attempts to convince you that it is a
Christian organization. It also attempts to be very patriotic-sounding kind
of like the political campaigns where they are always showing big American
flags, and hyping on the general American pride somehow. There are even
people talking about Amway in similar terms to Jesus, saying "Before I found
Amway..., etc." I can state quite emphatically that when I found Jesus, I
was not forced to con everyone else to give up their current lifestyle, and
have them pay me for the experience of having me pound them over the head all
day about why their life is worthless, etc. without Jesus. Instead, the
Bible states "love your neighbor as yourself", "love your enemies", "bless,
and not curse", "it is more blessed to give than to receive", and "the
goodness of God draws people to repentance." Unlike Amway, most people find
Jesus when they see the gospel truth in an unpressured manner, and are drawn
to Him themselves (without pressure from someone else). It is actually good
for someone to seek the truth out for himself, and convince himself. In
Amway, the second interest is shown the manipulation, pressure, performance,
hype, etc. starts. God forbid someone might want to investigate what's on
the Internet to get some real life independent opinions.
Whenever I hear about anything, I check it on the Internet. Yes, there
are some naysayers and generally negative people out there, but they are easy
to spot. However, when the motive of each is examined and you see that the
only people promoting something are the ones profiting off of it, I become
suspicious. Kind of like when people publish recommendations to buy a
certain stock, why are they doing that? Mostly because they already bought
some and want someone else to force up the price by buying it later. Anyway,
trading is an excellent training in detecting deception, etc. In my opinion,
MLM of any form is largely a scam, and suffers from systematic problems. I
have yet to meet anyone who is really successful doing MLM as the result of
product sales. Almost everyone I see that is successful at MLM is scamming
other people through "The System", or just signing up hundreds of people who
fizzle out after a month or so. And they rarely have any real friends
outside of the MLM organization they are in.
I also happen to be a software engineer by trade (since 1986), and can
tell you that "Phil"'s story was just so much crap. There is a lot more
chance of success in starting a software business, or even in contracting. I
have made up to $90K a year, working only 45 hrs a week, and I have friends
making $100K plus. One of my friends actually made about $300K for a couple
of years when he started selling software after designing it for about 5
years. For someone dedicated who wants to stay on the cutting edge of
things, there is no real limit to the income potential - particularly if you
are creative and willing to develop something yourself. All of the studies I
have seen about millionaires show that there are 3 main ways that people
become wealthy:
1. Real Estate
2. Stock Market
3. Their Own Business (note, not MLM, not an Amway "business").
One of the main stats thrown around during "The Plan" meetings is that
80% of all businesses fail in the first year. Interestingly, after
reviewing the Amway truth stats, it seems that 99% of Amway
distributors fail to make a profit, after counting all of the costs
of business. The remaining 1% are making their money off of the 99%
who are losing it. So, it would seem that your own non-Amway business
has a 20 to 1 chance of exceeding the performance of an Amway business
after a year.
Feel free to use any of this stuff in this E-mail to help anyone else avoid
that large sucking sound of their time and money going down the MLM drain.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Wed, 22 Apr 1998
Your a FAILURE! and instead of looking in the mirror and facing the truth
you'd rather put down a multi-billion dollar company that changed the lives
of millions of people in a positive way!!!!!.
Now you're lying and stealing peoples dreams! DREAM-STEALERS are
the lowest form of mankind!!!!!!!.
One of the many who have a dream
to improve their lives and the
lives of others!.
So There!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Wed, 22 Apr 1998 Russell: Here's something funny. I am 27, have and MBA and work for a very successful company making pretty good money for my age. I met the most wonderful man through a very good friend and we went out several times. Gentleman, polite, funny, sweet, Christian (which is good for me), great job, CPA, good family. I ran around for three weeks telling everyone I met the man I am going to marry. He told me last night that he sold amway. I would have rather him told me that he had herpes. It would be different if said he did it to save a little money or earn a little extra (like Avon), but that he intends to 'go for the goal' and he is tired of his job wants the freedom to travel, to have lots of kids, have a wife who doesn't have to work. He asked me to help him understand the objections people have about amway so he can better approach people with the opportunity. I was speechless. But I have been surfing the net, giving the whole deal the benefit of the doubt. I have never known a distributor, so I am smart enough to realize that I only have hearsay to go on. I went to two pro amway sites and then I read yours. My fears confirmed. Funny how one word (amway) can change everything. The worst part is that I have talked him up to my family and they are here to meet him tomorrow. What to do?.. I really care for him. The scary thing is, he is probably just like you, but never took the window to get out. I feel like his intelligence, gentleness, wit and faith may be wasted on face creams, soaps , cheap Coca-cola and motivational tapes. Is there a way to get him out? He even confided in me that his last serious girlfriend left him over this. Absolutely frightening. Just a note of thanks for the article. Don't you dare quote me.....
I don't know whether "Don't you dare quote me" means don't print this letter, don't include your name, or don't pull any quotes from the letter later. I am printing the letter by default (because it's good), but if you read back and are bothered by it, let me know and I'll drop it.
Wed, 22 Apr 1998 Subject: Your Amway page... HI RUSSELL, I REALLY HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS ABOUT AMWAY. HAVING BEEN INVOLVED IN THE BUSINESS SEVERAL TIMES, THE FIRST TIME IN 1973 WHILE IN THE NAVY IN HAWAII AND THE LAST TIME IN 1994 IN NEW YORK. EVERTIME I GOT IN WAS MY CHOICE, NOT ANYONE ELSE'S. YES, I VOLUNTEERED. WAY DOWN DEEP INSIDE, I BELIVE THAT RICH AND JAY HAD A GREAT IDEA THAT WOULD REALLY HELP PEOPLE. THEY SIMPLY PUT TOGETHER THE PLAN, WHICH HASN'T REALLY CHANGED SINCE 1959. AND THEY STARTED TO MANUFACTURE (OR HAVE MANUFACTURED FOR THEM) SOME ABOVE AVERAGE PRODUCTS THAT WERE CONSUMABLE AND COULD BE SOLD OVER AND OVER AND OVER...TO THE SAME 10 PEOPLE EVERY MONTH. WHEN I FIRST GOT IN THE BUSINESS IN 1973, WE STARTED SELLING PRODUCTS TO PEOPLE WE KNEW AND TO PEOPLE WE MIGHT MEET AND TO PEOPLE THEY REFERRED TO US. SOME OF THESE FOLKS ACTUALLY JOINED US, AND IN A SHORT TIME WE WERE AT 4000PV AND MAKING A DECENT PART TIME INCOME. WE WOULD GO TO A RALLY A FEW TIMES A YEAR-ALWAYS SPONSORED BY AMWAY AND AT A PRICE OF ABOUT $4.00. TAPES WERE AVAILABLE FROM AMWAY FOR $3.00 AND ACTUALLY GAVE SOME GREAT TRAINING ADVICE. AS TIME WENT ON, SOME OF THE SUCCESSFUL DISTRIBUTORS, LIKE YEAGER, SAW A WAY TO INCREASE THEIR INCOME. OFFER THE "SYSTEM". BOOKS, TAPES, SEMINARS, ALL OF WHICH PUT MONEY IN THE "SYSTEM OPERATORS" POCKETS. BUT KEEP IN MIND, ALL THESE ITEMS ARE VOLUNTARY. AMWAY DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY OF THESE TO BECOME SUCCESSFULL IN THE AMWAY BUSINESS. THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT THE NEW GUY GETS INTIMIDATED. EITHER GET INTO THE "SYSTEM" OR JEOPARDIZE YOUR BUSINESS. SO THEY BUY THE TAPES, WHICH TELL THEM TO BUY TAPES. THEN THEY GO TO SEMINARS (NOT SPONSORED BY AMWAY, BUT BY "SYSTEM OPERATORS") WHERE THEY ARE TOLD TO ATTEND SEMINARS AND TO BUY TAPES AND BOOKS. WHY? BECAUSE THE SUCCESSFULL SPEAKERS AT THE SEMINAR DID. AND THEY SUCCEEDED, THANKS TO THE "SYSTEM". DID YOU EVER HEAR OF AN AMWAY DIAMOND SPEAKING AT A SEMINAR WHO SUCCEEDED WITHOUT THE SYSTEM. OF COURSE NOT. THAT WOULDN'T MAKE MONEY FOR THE "SYSTEM OPERATORS". REMEMBER, AMWAY'S PLAN IS TO SELL A FEW PRODUCTS AND SHOW A FEW OTHERS HOW TO SELL A FEW PRODUCTS, ETC, ETC, ETC. AMWAY IS NOT TO BLAME FOR THE B.S. I'M JUST A PISSED AS YOU ARE BECAUSE OF THE B.S. AND THE GREEDY "SYSTEM OPERATORS". IN FACT I WAS SO PISSED, I CONTACTED AMWAY'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT AND TOLD THEM I WANTED TO BE SPONSORED BY A DIAMOND WHO DID NOT CONDONE OR PUSH THE "SYSTEM" AND IF THERE WAS NOT SUCH A DIAMOND, THEN I WANTED TO BE SPONSORED BY AMWAY, SO MY DOWNLINE DIDN'T HAVE TO BE CORRUPTED WITH THE SYSTEM B.S. WELL, THEY COULDN'T TELL ME THE NAMES OF ANY DIAMONDS NOT PUSHING TAPES, BOOKS AND SEMINARS AND THAT AMWAY WAS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF PERSONALLY SPONSORING ANYONE. (MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO DEVOS OR VAN ANDEL). TRYING TO BUILD A GROUP IN A "SYSTEM" OPERATION AND NOT GETTING YOUR DOWNLINE "INFECTED" BY "SYSTEM OPERATORS" IS IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE YOUR BUSINESS IS "THEIR" (UPLINES) BUSINESS. AFTER A WHILE YOUR UPLINE MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A JERK TO YOUR DOWNLINE. UPLINE CONVINCES DOWNLINE THAT YOU ARE NOT A TEAM PLAYER AND THAT THEY SHOULD GO AROUND YOU. IT HAPPENED TO ME WITH A DIRECT ORGANIZATION. IT ALL SUCKS. BUT IT'S NOT AMWAY WHO'S TO BLAME. UNFORTUNATELY, AMWAY CHOSE NOT TO ENFORCE THEIR RULE THAT PROHIBITED "NON-AMWAY" MATERIALS FROM BEING SOLD TO A DISTRIBUTOR NETWORK. IF I CAN GET PERSONALLY SPONSORED BY AMWAY OR BY A NON-SYSTEM DIAMOND, I'LL LET YOU KNOW AND WE CAN ALL MAKE MONEY "SELLING A FEW PRODUCTS AND SHOWING A FEW OTHERS HOW TO SELL A FEW PRODUCTS, WHO DO THE SAME. WHO DO THE SAME, ETC, ETC, ETC. SIMPLE, ISN'T IT? THANKS.
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Thu, 23 Apr 1998 Russell, Thank You for your information on Amway. I have never joined Amway and I never will, I have had way too many friends loose their "dreams" and desires with Amway. I do have one question for you, remember - I am not a Amway distributor) Do you believe at all in Network Marketing? If so, have you ever read your warning label on your toothpaste, mouthwash, deodorant? These are just some products we use every day that have warning labels on them, would you like to know why????
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Thu, 23 Apr 1998 Just read your story and really enjoyed it. My late husband and I were trapped in Amway a few years ago. He was struck by a crippling illness and Amway people convinced him that we would be rich if we just listened to their tapes and "believed". To this day every time I hear the name "Amway" I get sick to my stomach. By the way, where were all these "good people" when he died leaving us with no insurance, and no money. But , hey, we sure have a lot of Amway tapes. Know anybody who wants to buy them. For all it's worth, keep up the good work.
Subject: AMWAY EXPERIENCE.
Fri, 24 Apr 1998
Dear Russell,
Do not be afraid!! I am a "dormant" distributor, I have been one since
94'. I really commend you on your bravery and insight about this
"business". You made many good points in your story, which I could have
used when I first signed up. Today after almost 4 years I am much wiser and
have experienced the system at it's fullest. I must say that it is not all
bad; however, there are serious problems in this type of business.
I don't feel that the AMWAY Corp. is totally at fault for the problems
surrounding MLM's. Most of the problem stems from the people who get
involved in this type of business. Like in every business, there are always
some bad apples in the bunch. I hope you don't think that I am trying to
convince you that your decision was wrong! In fact I think you did the
right thing. I have continued on with my distributorship only because I
found some good vitamins which I like and small customer base that buy from
me. I thought "well if I revoke my distributorship, I will have to buy
these AMWAY products at retail instead of what they call dist. cost.
My wife also grew fond of the makeup line they have, so we have just
renewed our subscription to the monthly AMAGRAM and distributorship ever
since. If you like selling products, then you can make a little money on
the side. I really think that if AMWAY would just simply remove the
"motivational organizations" from the picture, they may become more
successfull at reaching more people. I mean, business is business. All they
have to do is offer a way for any person interested in making some extra
income to sell, consume and find new distributors for their products. It's
really pretty simple. Taking in to consideration the size of the
organization, they should be able to offer a distributor a considerable
discount on products purchased either for consumption or re-sale. And if
they focus more on the Amway manufactured goods, they will simply have to
compete on quality and price comparisons. In order for you to understand
what I am trying to say, I will give an example. Let's just say DELL
computer's wanted to expand their market and cut down on the advertising
and marketing costs. First they would need to formulate an incentive
program for people interested in marketing/selling their product
(computers). After formulating a good incentive program for potential
distributors, they need to inform people using various forms of media. They
must advertise in the beginning in order to get the ball rolling. They
could say somthing like : "Are you looking for some extra income, Dell
Computer's is looking for independent distributors. Training will be
available". At this point they should simply contract people to sell the
product on a commission base and look for new distributors to do the same.
That's it!!! No gimmicks, no secrets, no mind control! It is simply a way
for the company to save money on ads and on payroll. At the same time
giving potential distributors a chance to earn some money on retail sales
and residual income from distributors who are signed up by them. What I
just explained, is a rough example of the Network Marketing concept without
the "psychological bullshit".
I am very close to revoking my distributorship; however, I have not got
around to it. I no longer attend any meetings, conferences or any other
function related to motivation, so I really don't spend much of my money on
"HOT AIR" anymore. I simply buy products which I like at a lessor price
than I would get if I wanted to buy them from a distributor. I must admit,
some of the Amway manufactured products are pretty good. They are not
always cheaper, but then again Nike tennis shoes are not the cheapest
either. It is a matter of paying for what you feel you need. There is a
wide range of products out there, and some of us consumers will spend top
dollar on some products. Most of the time we will buy the best product we
can afford. That means that some people will spend hundred's of dollars on
sneakers, while others will only pay $ 20.00 for a pair.
Anyway, sorry to run off on a tangent. I found your story very informative
and helpful. When I was being "sucked in" to the system, the internet was
still in it's infancy. There was limited information available about this
topic, but now there is a plethora of info around. Glad to see that you
were able to quit before you signed your life away. Hopefully the corp.
will realize where the problem really is, and do something about it.
Your example with Dell computers was good, and it's something that happens in the real world every day, but it's not MLM. The "multi-level" part is the key here. In your example, Dell -- and ONLY Dell -- advertised for and hired people to sell computers. That's it: just sell computers.
They did not hire people to post more advertisements for them, sign up more distributors, or attempt to overrun the world with Dell salesmen. Dell salesmen sell the computers that the company makes, and they work for that company. Dell isn't deluding its salesman (who don't make anything or advertise anything) into believing that they are "running their own business."
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 24 Apr 1998 Dear Russ, Great story. My anxiety grew with each sentence. Really powerful. Good use of rhetoric (I mean that in a good way). I'm sure that you will succeed in your chosen career. You sound intelligent and eloquent. What you write is believable. I trust your spin on the facts of Amway much more than the spin that the organization gives through its sales force. However, is this really a moral issue? Is it worth fighting over? We are talking about people who love money. If you get into Amway because you want to get rich so that you can "sit on the beach," you're a greedy fool. Sitting on the beach costs nothing. I could go find a beach and do that this instant. The problem is that at some point you want to leave the beach and go back home to a dry bed and clothing without sand in it. People need to eat. Living in our world takes money. To get money, one has to work. This is where the Amway theory fails. Even the Amway folks, who laugh at others who "work," are working their tails off. Sales is a hard business. Ted was working like a dog the day he met you in front of the computer games. He was looking for his next sale. I am sure you are an interesting person, but imagine how much time he had to spend with you (someone who is 5-10 years younger than him? Imagine yourself spending as much time with a 13 year old stranger). This is time he might have otherwise spent with his family or friends, if he weren't working. Ted spent hours trying to recruit you, and that is his job. Ask any sales person and they can tell you that sales is hard work. (Incidentally, I'm not in sales, but most of my family is.) The trick is to find a job you enjoy. If you're lucky it will provide you with enough money to enjoy the other things as well. You will get on with your life and eventually you will lose interest in your Amway experience. It was only a month and a half or so. You have no need to be bitter. Why are you spending good bandwith on negativity? I vote for erasing the page and putting up something that is less rancorous. However, save a hard copy of the story to read ten years from now. You'll enjoy reading it then, and wonder how you got so worked up about something so trivial as those sad Amway folks. Thanks for the interesting reading.
Subject: Your Amway page... Fri, 24 Apr 1998 A personal Amway story... A few years ago a friend called about a "business opportunity", which turned out to be Amway. I was in an unhappy work situation at the time, so I thought I'd at least give it a shot. When I got ready to buy the sample kit, my friend suggested if I was short of money (I was) to save it for Dream Weekend instead. He said I'd never forget it. He was right. I thought I'd ended up in a Moonie convention. Nonstop propoganda.....sleep deprivation.....people acting as if they were programmed....the whole nine yards. When we got ready to come back home on Sunday, my friend tried to talk me into attending the afternoon session, suggesting that "anytime a Diamond is speaking, you need to be there," Well it was the same damn Diamond who had spoken til 3 o'clock Sunday morning. Well, I thought if the guy couldn't get it said in the 3 hours he had last night, he had a problem. (It took Lincoln less than 20 minutes to deliver the Gettysburg Address.) We left town and never looked back. My wife and I still talk about Scream Weekend, and I still hear from my friend, but not as often (since I'm one of those "negative" people that Amwayites are to avoid).
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sat, 25 Apr 1998 Russel-- Great page. A fellow at church approached me last week about a "business opportunity" and I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and hear what he had to say even though I had a suspicion it was Amway--after all, I'd never spoken to anyone in Amway so I figured it would be good to see what all the negative rumors were about. I'd already decided I had no intention of getting involved in it when I found your page but it was nice to have my negative feelings confirmed by someone else. They do remind me quite a bit of a group I got involved with as an undergraduate that called itself "Vector Marketing" and sold Cutco Cutlery. They were also relentlessly positive, high pressure, made money off selling sales kits to new recruits, and beguiled people with numbers. They mainly targeted students, probably because of our naivete. Not that Cutco makes bad knives--the product quality is truly superb--my problem is with their marketing techniques and the way they take advantage of people. But I digress....My point is, I enjoyed reading about your experiences and appreciate the effort you've gone to to spread the word.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Sat, 25 Apr 1998 I deeply regret your "horrific" experience with Amway and the very unprofessional behavior of some individuals and organizations within "the business." I would also like to say that I respect and admire your honest comments and your desire to seek the truth. Good luck in your future endeavors, and hope you find the peace you are looking for. *****, distributor #1151659 and fellow surfer. Ps. Really like the reference to Star Trek and the Borg. Very creative.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Sun, 26 Apr 1998
I saw your web page last year while researching a MLM dealing in phone
cards called Destiny Telecom. A friend had become involved and was trying to
convince me to sign up. Luckily, I didn't waiver however he lost a few
hundred bucks.
Recently some other friends invited me over to their house to hear
someone speak about an "exciting oppurtunity". I decided to go because I
hadn't seen these friends in quite a while. I listened to a very charismatic
speaker drop names of people who had made millions with this "oppurtunity".
He went on for about 3 hours decrying how awful it was that people had so
little time to spend with their kids these days because of their work.
(Heart wrenching stories of fathers crying and turning to drink because they
couldn't spend time with their family).
There was also quite a bit of Christian religion thrown in for good
measure. I sat stoney faced through most of this, however I did manage a
smirk when he told us one inspiring story. It was the story of a stripper
who decided to use this "oppurtunity" to turn her life around and get on the
right track. When this person arrived to speak at the stripper's meeting,
the door to the apartment club house where she was having it was locked.
Undaunted the speaker said a little prayer and tried the key to his Mercedes
in the door - and it miraculously opened! (Apparently even the Almighty
supports this "oppurtunity".)
By the time I left with a handful of pamphlets and a Zig Ziglar tape, I
still had no idea what was involved in this "oppurtunity" or even the name
of the company that was offering it. When I got home I finally found the
name of the company in small print at the bottom of one of the pamphlets -
Interactive Distribution. I did a little research and found that this
company is merely another tentacle of the hydra called - Amway!!!!.
Needless to say I remembered your web site and looked it up. I found
everything to be frighteningly similar to what I had seen and what my
friends have been spouting. Unfortunately they seem to have already
swallowed the bait. I've been invited to go to a second meeting this
Wednesday to get more "details". I'm now considering if I should go to
represent the voice of reason. Will let you know if I do.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and keep the site going to help
those a little less critical than ourselves!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Sun, 26 Apr 1998 Hi, Russell. I just finished your story and read a few replies, although admittedly not many. What amazes me is the number of people thanking you for your insight into Amway. It makes me wonder from whom they would seek information if they were looking to become, say, a doctor, lawyer or maybe even a computer programmer. Would they talk to someone who has succeeded in one of those fields or would they go to someone who never really tried? I am happy for you that you are now working at a job that you like and with a company that treats you well. Unfortunately, as my husband experienced, when a company is finished with you, no matter how good you are at what you do (and he still has the reputation of being one of the top in his field), they have no problem showing you the door if replacing you means saving a few dollars on salaries. You complained about how phony (my word, not yours) the Amway people were. I worked in an office for 23 years and could probably count on my fingers the number of sincere people I worked with. What were most of them interested in? Making a buck, jockeying for the best position when promotions were up, and doing whatever it took to make themselves look good, even if it meant making others look bad. You complained about their obsession with making money (again, my choice of words, not yours). Do you believe you are not controlled by money? If you didn't make money, where would you live, what would you drive, how would you keep the electricity hooked up so that you could run your computer? If you went to work tomorrow and your boss told you that from now on you will be expected to work twice as hard for half the pay, how long would you stay? That "worship-the-ground-they-walk-on" syndrome (yep, my choice of words again) is called edification. True, everyone has faults, but what do you think would happen if we concentrated on just a person's positive traits and tried to work around the negative? Interesting concept, huh? Sounds kind of like how were told to deal with our kids when we adopted them. Not exactly ignoring the "bad" but trying to find the "good" and concentrating on that. Not a bad concept when applied to the real world, and if enough of us tried it, it just might work! I wish you much luck, Russell. I hope you remain happy in your job and that it provides you with every opportunity you are looking for. God bless you.
Subject: Hello Sun, 26 Apr 1998 Hello Russell Thank you for taking the time to share your experience with amway.We are in 98 and your internet page is still doing what is supposed to do "inform people " I was planning to do business with them and try to import it to my home country Algeria I want to precise that you didn't influence me in "Any ways" Thanks I will not import.the amway virus home. Its people like you, who share in an objective way their experiences , give the Human race an other chance to advance in the light Thanks again.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2) Sun, 26 Apr 1998 Hey, great site. I've just completed several meetings with people whose suits don't quite fit - too new and unused I suspect. Went through the same experience - meaningless tapes, etc, but not one person would tell me how much they were making or how it really worked. STILL SOUNDED GREAT! What an idiot I must be to think it still sounded great. One question that bothered me was "How could it only take 5- hours a week and still go to all the meetings and events? I decided to get on the internet and through your site and others, it has all become clear. I NOW have the answers I wanted and they are clear and logical. Not so amazing I didn't get them from those guys. Needless to say, I'm not signing up.
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part2) Sun, 26 Apr 1998 Get a life!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Mon, 27 Apr 1998 Russell, Thanks for making this Amway information available. I was once sneakily brought to an Amway meeting by some friends, and was completely turned off by the speaker and his simple, boorish sense of humor and his condescending remarks about life, business, and the world. I hope your pages have helped some otherwise good people to avoid this scam and keep their lives on track. I found your site by searching under "Amway" this morning in Yahoo. Why? I spent the past weekend (April 25-26) in Kansas City, Missouri baby-sitting two friend's 6 month old son while they attended the "Hart/Schmits Winners' Advance '98" Amway conference. I was even present in the inner sanctum of the conference for about an hour, during which Bubba somebody gave a completely nauseating speech right before a band came on to sing "We Are Family" and similar tunes. It was an incredibly informative experience (and frightening). I'm a bit angry with these friends right now (for non-Amway related reasons) so I'm not going to share your story with them. They are wealthy enough (He's an heir to a sizable overseas fortune) that I'm not worried about their immediate well being, so I'm going to sit back and see how much of that wealth ends up in Hart/Schmitz/Bubba's pocket. I will, however, share your information with as many people as I can, people who don't have unlimited incomes to waste and huge amounts of time to waste and to whom I feel a basic human obligation to try to help. It seems that you too posses a similar moral sense and I thank you for sharing it with the world. Best of luck to you in your challenging, rewarding, difficult and and free-thinking life.
Subject: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 Hello Mr Glasser! Last saturday, I had the visit of a friend (Édith) about AMWAY stuff. She was with her boyfriend and their sponsor (Mike). Mike did present us, my girlfriend and I, what is AMWAY and how it is working. It last 2 full hours. I did ask Mike the questions coming to my mind on the moment, but he gave me some empty answers as I don't know nothing more than before I asked. He did advise us to do not ask our family or friends what they think about that stuff, because, as he said, they don't know anything about AMWAY. However, I am still with some confusions in my mind about it. Yesterday I did take a look on your site. That was funny cause we had exactly the same questionning about that stuff as you did. Now I am regarding for some lawsuits information about this business. But there is one thing I would like to know that there is not on the internet. Can you tell me if this organisation is legal or not? Please, if you can take some time for it, send me the answer or any additionnal advise concerning AMWAY. Thanks a lot for your help Mr Glasser.
Amway is 100% legal, a point which I commented on extensively in my argument page...
Subject: Ginny Mon, 27 Apr 1998 Hello Mr Glasser! I have read the beginning of Ginny's story, but unfortunately, the following parts are not on your site right now. To be honnest, I can't wait to read the rest of the story, cause I really want to know what happenned next. I did emailed you some questions previously about AMWAY, I hope your advises and the end of Ginny's story will help me to see much clearer in this company stuff. A sponsor will meet me on next saturday (may 2nd, 98). I wish to have all the information I need before this date. Don't give up, I do share your point of view concerning this corporation. You are doing a great job. Sincerly!
Subject: Finished your Amway story... Tue, 28 Apr 1998 Russel, I enjoyed reading about your experiences with Amway; I couldn't have said it better myself. I also couldn't get over how similar your experiences were to my own (kind of like the cultists involved: carbon copy robot sheep with identical daily planners and Amway breath sprays). Good luck with your software career, I'm sure you'll go far!
Subject: Nothing much, Just read if U have time . Mon, 27 Apr 1998 Hi, I like Ur site on amway. But I say U are missing somehitng by not being in touch with goos and generous Amway distributors, who are taking all the pain and spending their time for the sake of this world. I love amway people and care for pray for them . Most of them badly need it : ). I am new to this Fantastic world of Amway . I have yet spend only $170 for amway and I don't my evil consiousness will allow me to spend anything more... Frankly speaking , I have met a lot people, crazy , insane , brainwashed , but never together, before joining Amway......... BTW, where is gin's rest story. Bye. take care.
Subject: Your Amway Page Tue, 28 Apr 1998 R. Glasser- Thank you so much for keeping me from making such a big mistake as Amway! Though the struggle has just begun for me, I'm afraid. Now I have to convince my girlfriend's parents not to go in for this scam! Wish me luck! Later.
Subject: my reply to amway page Tue, 28 Apr 1998 Russell, Thank you for your story. To make a long story short, my wife and I met another couple at a Christmas Party last year. Sure enough, they seem like great people, still do - the type it would be nice to get together and go to dinner with, movies, etc. Well, I got a call from the guy two weeks ago, he wanted to 'get together' over coffee...sure why not? (altho, I would prefer a beer). Anyhow, he went thru phase one on Amway (never mentioned their name tho, but explained what a franchise is, how products are marked up, etc). He gave me a video tape and said he would call to meet with my wife and I. Well, we met again last night, I finally learned this was Amway, so I am doing my research. I am not an idiot (I am a programmer like yourself) I could see through the salesman pitch. And I told my wife as we left the coffee shop 'No way', but I had to do some research for a 'need to know' like yourself. The real shame is, here are two nice people that it would be fun to 'just hang out with', I think. I think I was just a potential downline in their eyes. So, I guess everyone they meet, and their family and friends are potential downlines...a shame. Their whole life now revloves around keeping a friend if they are a downline, and losing one (or not gaining one) if they are not. Was their friendliness the first time we met sincere? Well, I think that is someting I will never know - maybe when I tell this guy 'no way' they will still want to get together - I doubt it. Could you imagine calling a childhood friend and asking them if you could make money off them? Or every person you meet, wondering if they could be a downline? oofa..no thanks.
Subject: Tue, 28 Apr 98 Hi Russell, About 20 years ago I was looking for a part-time job and found one advertised as a part-time secretarial job for a contractor building houses. I meet with the contractor's assistant and was hired for the job. The job was actually working for the contractor's wife and the couple were both heavily involved in Amway... they were BIG in Amway... Diamonds I believe. Everything you say is true... I had to type speeches that the husband would give to conventions and they talked about losers which they definitely considered my husband and I to be because not only did I make it clear in the beginning that I was not in any way interested in the Amway business but I drove a Chevrolet Nova... In one of the speeches that I typed it was written that if you had to drive an old Cadillac but whatever do not drive a Chevrolet. That made you a loser. He also would make up stories about his childhood - hard luck stories that were not true to tell at the conventions. His wife would ask me to wear her diamonds and her fur coat and go to the jeweler and get her rings cleaned and I could drive her Mercedes - they were trying to get me interested in the "good" life. They had two boys and did not spend any time with the boys and they were so lonely and unhappy and were discipline problems. I was asked by the father one day to call the police because the son was going to school and kill the person that had put a small scratch on his new corvette... he was in 11th or 12th grade and his father had bought his a new corvette... they would "buy" things for the kids but would not spend any quality time with them ... their "quality" time was spent with Amway. They would hire a babysitter for the boys that was marginally older than the older boy and go to their many Amway conventions, etc. It was a very sad situation. They were "rich" in material possessions but I did not see anything that would make me want that type of lifestyle.I have not thought much about these things in the last 20 years except for the few times when someone has a "business opportunity" to tell me about and will not tell me the name. I was approached one day at the university where I am employed and was told that I seemed to be an attractive and intelligent person and perhaps I would be interested in a wonderful business opportunity. I,like many other people,want to think that I look attractive and intelligent and I was taken for just a moment with the flattery but began to wonder why they would not tell me what the opportunity consisted of and why they had to approach me ... if it was such a great opportunity why do they have to grab people off the street... They had an article in our local paper yesterday and today about the Amway successes yesterday and the internet TRUTH today... I decided to look up some of the stories and the TRUTH ... the REAL TRUTH... not the amway truth rings out loud and clear....
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 2) Tue, 28 Apr 1998 Saaaaayyy, you are a cute guy did you know that? I love your Amway page! Better yet I love your home page!!!! Yowza Yowza! *wink wink* heheheheh Love ya babe! the story is coming along nicely I think. I will write some more tomorrow. Gin
Gee, where did this sexy blonde come from who keeps writing me letters on this subject?
Only one more month till the move, oh boy oh boy...
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3) Tue, 28 Apr 1998 When I lived in Louisiana, these people whose son was in my class came over to speak about Amway to me and my husband. We were very very very courteous to them but I never made any sence out of their talk and be- sides, I was broke anyway. It sounded too good to be true...........
Subject: Your Amway page... Wed, 29 Apr 1998 Dear Sir, I just happened to meet one of my husband's colleagues who introduced me to this Amway concept. I hav'nt as yet, bought the Amway Kit. I have also attended a presentation on the various aspects of Amway - the way it operates, helps make money etc. I would like to know about the reality of the Amway business and whether I would be risking by getting involved in it? Please guide me as to what should be my next course of action ? 1. Whether I should buy a Kit and start sponsoring the same further to get into this business? 2. What are my chances of getting any benefit out of it? 3. What are the likely problems I am likely to face in the long run i.e. say after 2-3 years of getting into this business- if at all I get Into it? Please help me in getting over this dilema. Thanking you and expecting your reply very soon.
Yes. Buy the kit. Sponsor everyone you know. You are guaranteed to get rich. There are no problems whatsoever. That's all I've been saying over and over again in my web page, didn't you see? I think you should start selling Amway TODAY, and start spending as much money as you need to realize your dreams.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page Wed, 29 Apr 1998 >From your rebuttal to the most recent thesis/treatise: >> and offers early retirement. > > I guess I'd have to say that's true; people who go diamond either do it >in a few years or don't do it at all, with most falling into the latter >category. According to the Corporation, the concept of retirement is misleading. They use the phrase "evolution of work" to describe what the diamonds do. In my active distributor phase, I was exposed to the kind of work that the diamonds do, and I have to say that they work harder than at any other level of achievement. Of course, they have to, they have the most to lose.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...and do I have some similar stuff to say about ANOTHER MLM Wed, 29 Apr 1998 Hi, My name is *****, and I have to say, great minds think alike. A weightlifting "buddy" has been trying to recruit me in a Canadian MLM called "V.I.V.A." for the past 6 months. Of course, no REAL information had been offered, though so far in an organization of about 1000 associates, he is in the 3rd tier, or first 20, of the organization. Therefore, he works only for the company--which is to say he does weekly trainings, preparation for Gala meetings every three months, and recruiting his friends when he has a chance. he says he makes about $60,000 Canadian, but that is probably an extremely high gross estimate. In the months of talking to him and others, I have yet to get any real facts. the "zero-sum" argument is a fairly potent reason why I don't see how this stuff can make everybody rich--If they aren't in the first 2% of the company. And at their recent Gala, I saw just how extreme the brainwashing is. . . Don't even show up if you aren't ready to say how much VIVA has saved your life. Anyway, thanks for the service of posting all this stuff.
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