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Subject: Regarding Amway
Sun, 31 May 1998
Hello! I just got done reading your web page(yes pretty much all of it!)
and I did find it interesting. I just started in Amway and have a few
things to say.......
The way I figure it right now is that a person's experience with Amway
depends greatly on thier upline. I was approached a couple of years ago by
a guy and he seemed like the people you described..greedy, self-absorbed,
etc.., so I never even bothered with it. Then about a month ago I was
approached by some friends and they seemed(and are) very good people. They
are positive, kind and ready to work with me at any time. I went to a
Rallie, no charge, and I was impressed with it for the fact they started it
out with the Lord's prayer.
My upline does not pressure me into buying any tapes, books, etc. and they
will let me borrow anything that I need. I don't plan on buying alot of
materials for this, but like I said I'm new and maybe naive, I will have to
see what happens. I'll say this....I don't trust anyone until I see some
results...but for now... I just like the attitude I get from these people,
They are positive and if this Amway doesn't work, at least I have met some
good people and that alone is worth the little bit of money I have spent..
please respond and let me know what you think...Plus I would like to keep
your e-mail address and let you know how all this turns out. It may be good
or bad, who knows
P.S. This is my husbands
e-mail--it doesn't really matter which one you use but he doesn't really
care to get my mail!! I still gotta luv him!! Ha,Ha!!!!!
Subject: URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sun, 31 May 1998
Hello:
I was reading your webpage regarding Amway and decided to ask you a few
questions.
I recently became an Amway distributor. For two weeks I was really excited
about this new business opportunity until my wife and I decided to make a
cost comparison list using the products we consume every month. To our
surprise, we found that there were no savings in our purchases if we bought
Amway products.
My problem was that I did not do my homework. I trusted my sponsor and
everything I saw in the presentation meetings that I attended. I should
have known better. I know.
I decided to confront my sponson. After discussing this matter for almost
an hour, he said that I had to get with his wife so she could show me how I
could save money. The reason to talk to her was that she is in charge of
the actual sale of products. So I have a appointment with her tomorrow.
I want to be able to arm myself with enough knowledge so that I can present
a strong position that they cannot refute. I decided to see what I could
find in the web in terms of information that I could use for this purpose.
I found a great deal of it. The only thing is that I cannot claim that this
information is reliable when I do not know if the information is biased or
not. Since my sponsor always says that you cannot believe everything that
you see in the internet, I do not feel I can use this information to my
advantage.
I decided to write to you hoping that I could get an opportunity to ask you
what I can do to confront them with credible facts before the meeting
tomorrow (8:30 eastern time).
Thanks for you time and interest.
Subject: thank you
Mon, 01 Jun 1998
hello
you don't know me, and we'll probably never meet, but i'd just like to
say thank you for saving me from the life-sucking hole that is amway.
like yourself, i'm a computer science major (or getting there, at
least), and i was recently introduced to amway by a friend of a friend.
you are right in that at first, the word 'amway' was never mentioned,
and all of the claims of vast riches and the talk of being able to
retire 'in 2-5 years' appealed to me, but i was very skeptical. but of
course, after sitting through the lecture and meeting all of the people
with financial success on their minds, dressed in their suits with their
arms extended for a handshake, i began to wonder whether my previous
apprehensions about the "scam notion" were false.
however, after waking up this morning (the night after the meeting), i
found myself feeling a little bit weary about the concept they were
pushing. well, after much research i was still unsure, but after
reading your personal experience, i am now as sure as ever. i have a
meeting tomorrow night with the guy who brought me to the meeting, as
well as someone with a higher rank in the amway pyramid (an alleged
stanford graduate with three masters), and i'm not quite sure what to
do. at first i was just planning to return the box of info i had
received and just say thank you and be on my way, but after reading
about the plan you were conceiving, i feel a little deviant. ;o)
oh well, i just wanted to say thank you for allowing me to see the
"amwayites" for who they really are-- empty, shallow people,
relentlessly in search of victims to try and sell the idea in hopes that
someday it will pay off (and they won't feel like idiots for going along
as far as they have). the whole situation is an endless cycle of
misguided souls and lost dreams. it has occurred to me that the amway
people try and make other people feel insecure about themselves and
their capabilities and brainwash them with the idea that only through
amway, can true success be achieved. too bad you have to be the ones at
the top of the scam ladder to achieve it.
may your words continue to save all of the potential amway "suckers" out
there.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Mon, 1 Jun 1998
Hello Russell,
thanks for your webpage, yes that number of visitors is scarry. But that
also mean, bunch of people is searching for information, before they choose
not to join.
Subject: More Techniques
Tue, 2 Jun 1998
Hello Russell:
Great page. I went as far as being fooled to attend a meeting back in
1993. I quickly discovered what the meeting was about and made a
sport of the rest of the evening. When the speaker asked silly
questions such as,"Can you make it at a 9-5 job". Instead of shouting
NO! with the rest of the crowd, I shouted YES! This caused great
squirming of my 'sponsor' and a few surprised glances from the
speaker. I also kept saying to my sponsor, "When is he going to get
to the point of all this!" Eventually, I stormed out towards the end
of the meeting. What surprised (and alarmed me) was that nobody else
in the crowd of about 150 people left (I can imagine the speaker
saying, 'that man that left, he's a loser, he's never going to be
rich'). My 'sponsor' followed me out. I basically chewed him a new
***hole when he asked why I left. He never called again.
Anyhow, one thing about their techniques is the length of
'introductory' meeting. Mine lasted about three and one half hours.
They never had a single break during the meeting. Nobody is allowed
to leave to relieve themselves. I have never been to a long business
meeting or function that did not have a break. It seems that such
fatigue and wearing down is part of their technique to make you
susceptible to suggestion. Even though I knew what was going on, I
felt exhausted and mentally drained by the experience. I found that I
had to concentrate to think straight after the 3 1/2 hour ordeal.
In 1994, another person tried to recruit me in graduate school
(Mechanical Engineering at the University of Washington). He tried to
convince me that Amway was better than my years of study, and said,
"If you want to do the grad school thing, that's fine, but this is a
much better opportunity." In the end, I finished my degree and am now
making over $60K plus stock bonuses and profit sharing. That's far
more than a direct makes (all it took was a few years of school, which
were paid for by my employer at the time). After some years of
experience, I will be able to consult as a Mechanical Engineering and
probably make a six figure salary. I would love to see an Amway
person prove that kind of return with the same amount of time plunked
into 'the business'. For supplemental income, I am launching a side
business of webpage building. Little upfront money is needed and you
are paid directly for your work. Something that Scamway promises but
never delivers.
Oh well. I love living as a loser. The hours aren't bad and the pay
if pretty good! For any Amway reps reading this, let's talk in 10 or
20 years and see who is making more money and who has a happier life!
Cheers,
*****
'Living a dream life without Amway'
Subject: Your Amway page
Wed, 3 Jun 1998
Dear Russell:
We just visited your site describing your Amway experience and other related
content. You are 100% correct in your opinions and your initiative to share
them with other prospective/innocent victims of Amway cult.
I have just registered a domain, named www.anti-amway.com This site will be
ready to post content by this weekend. I request your consent to link your
site and assistance to make it meaningful, and thus help save some potential
victims of Amway.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Thu, 04 Jun 1998
Hi Russell--
When my husband got into Amway about 20 years ago, I told him that I
wanted no part of it and didn't want anyone we knew to know he was doing
it. The people he was involved with kept telling him to tell me I HAD
to get involved and recommended books like The Total Woman and
Fascinating Womanhood. GAG! He knew better than to come home with that
crap! The final straw was when I heard him on the phone trying to get
someone involved and didn't mention Amway. I told him I was
disappointed in him and asked him if he was going to be like all the
others who lied. He didn't renew.
Just over a year ago, a very nice couple at church called and asked if
we would be interested in saving 40% on products that we buy anyway. I
said, sure and when I hung up, thought, oh s----, it's probably Amway.
I was right. We told them we'd buy the products from them but had no
interest in selling them ourselves. They talked us into becoming
distributors to get the products cheaper. We didn't want to hurt their
feelings and realize that they have been having a rough time, so we
bought the kit. My husband strongly reiterated to the man that we have
no interest in getting into the business.
Now that I've found your website, I'm really p-oed! I have never, ever
given a cent to a Republican and I don't care if the products save me
90%, I don't want any of my money going to the GOP. I'd rather just
donate the $150 to these people to help them out.
One of the "benefits" that Amway pushes is that couples can work
together. If I had to spend all day every day with my husband, I'd
probably kill him or myself. I've told him that when he retires, he'd
better have a hobby to keep himself busy or I'll get a job.
Our distributorship comes up for renewal soon but they won't be getting
us again. Thank goodness we didn't let them drag us to any meetings or
rallies, but I resent the fact that they've used our church rolls to
promote their business.
Another thing the Amwayites push is that you don't even have to have a
high school diploma to be a success in this business. I worked hard to
get my advanced degree, and I'm not a snob about education, but why
should I want to spend all my time with people who didn't even finish
high school?
I don't care about the money--we make and spend a lot more than we've
spent on Amway, but I've gotten to the point that I dread seeing these
people coming. I know this is long and you may want to cut it down, but
I'm very appreciative that you've done this site.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 04 Jun 1998
I KNOW YOU ONCE HAD A DREAM FOR LET SOME OTHER PEOPLE STEAL IT FROM YOU.
HOW SAD BUT JUST REMEMBER: THIS WORLD BELONGS TO PEOPLE WITH A VISION, NOT
PEOPLE NEGATIVE MINDS; LIFE IS GOOD IF YOU KNOW HOW TO SEE THE GOOD THINGS
IN IT.
AS FOR ME, LET ME TELL YOU THAT AMWAY HAS CHANGED MY LIFE FOR THE
BETTER, AND I THANK GOD FOR THIS BUSINESS, AND I AM NOT A DIAMOND YET, BUT
I WILL BE, THAT I AM SURE OF IT.
OH, BY THE WAY, DID I MENTION THAT I AM MY KIDS HEROE?
I LOVE IT !!!
GOD BLESS YOU, MY FRIEND.
Subject: Amway
Thu, 04 Jun 1998
Your description of Amway is absolutely accurate! I've heard more
horror stories from former amway distributors than any other MLM on the
market. Unfortunately, due to the success of Amway more and more
companies are copying their business model... Describing amway as a
cult is the best description I've heard...
Keep up the good work...
Subject: Interlink - Amway
Thu, 04 Jun 98
Dear Russel,
Im currently writing a paper on AMO's, and the similarities they
may or may not share with New Religious Movements, I've stummbled
across a group calling itself Interlink - Have you heard anything
about them, other than that they have been in existence for 5
years, and openly avoid the 'Curiosity Approach'.
Subject: Does this have to go on the Web?
Thu, 04 Jun 1998
I am very impressed with your story! I don't even know you, but I have to say I
would probably really like you. You seem intelligent, honest, thoughtful, and
you even write good HTML! I liked the placement of the titles in the story with
tables, I assume. And your story was clever and entertaining and concise and
informative all in one!
A friend of mine got into Amway a while ago and recently got out of it of his
own accord, not because of any hearsay or negative rumor but simply because he
didn't have the time for it. He called me a few nights ago to tell me he did a
web search on Amway and discovered all these things that he had never known
about Amway, such as that the really rich people get their money not from the
products but from the tapes and seminars. Now my friend is someone I admire very
much, and one of the reasons I admire him is his ability to question anything
and everything, to take nothing for granted, to take no one at their word, to
investigate everything and make up his own mind about things. I remember him
questioning me (a physics major) about why potential energy is considered a form
of energy, and me finally realizing that I had no idea why it was considered a
form of energy. And here he was telling me that he had just realized how duped
he had been. He had been convinced not to listen to the negative things about
Amway, nor to even perform a simple web search on Amway! Forget whether they are
right or wrong, good or evil (if there is such a thing), he was troubled that he
hadn't even *tried* to find out more information when the one thing he (and I)
prides himself for is his critical nature.
As I read through your story I tried to find the parts that would have turned
me away, and I think I would have been turned away immediately at the idea that
money is the ultimate goal. I remember reading the part about the first meeting
you attended and the speaker saying that there were only two kinds of people,
those with excuses and those with money, and wondering of all the supposed smart
people he met why they're not rich. And my first thought was immediately that I
would either have (a) been laughing out loud (b) leaving or (c) raising my hand
and asking him which category Mother Theresa fit into.
And the part later where you describe all the things they ask of you, ignoring
the opposing viewpoints and so forth, it's as if they're treating you like
children, and I don't think even children should be treated like that. Don't
listen to the nay sayers! They'll just discourage you! ... What the hell do you
think I am, an idiot incapable of making up my own mind? It's such mind control
I do have to agree that Amway is in some sense a minor cult.
I am thankful I never got closer than this friend of mine that got into it and
got out w/o much of a problem. He gave me the "talk" one night and I politely
looked at it all and said no, because simply I don't want to get to the end of
my life and find that all I was was a damned salesman. I also noticed that all
the people in the book of "winners" (possibly diamonds?) looked the same and
only one of them was black. Besides, I don't care much for jewels. Let alone
money.
I do have one question. If the tapes contain no information and
nothing but hype and vague metaphors, then why do all the Amway people feel
compelled to buy them? Is NO one there capable of saying "I do like Amway and
want to make my riches from it, but I see no need for the tapes as I have
plenty of motivation of my own, so I just won't buy them, ok?"
Subject: Re: Does this have to go on the Web?
Fri, 05 Jun 1998
Hi,
I'd like to give your letter a longer answer than I can because it
was so entertaining, but unfortunately I have about 3 minutes before I have
to go to work, so I'll just congratulate you and your friend on your critical
thinking and subsequent escape, and answer your last question:
> I do have one question. If the tapes contain no information and nothing but
> hype and vague metaphors, then why do all the Amway people feel compelled to buy
> them? Is NO one there capable of saying "I do like Amway and want to make my
> riches from it, but I see no need for the tapes as I have plenty of motivation
> of my own, so I just won't buy them, ok?"
I think the best way to answer this question is by playing devil's
advocate in a short hypothetical (but typical, albeit satiric) dialogue.
Newbie Skeptic: The tapes don't seem to convey any real information.
Upline Guru: The tapes are your chance to learn how diamonds think. See all
those guys? They're rich. You're not. Ergo, they are smarter than you, and
everything they say will benefit you.
NS: But how can it benefit me if it doesn't tell me anything?
UG: Because they are giving you an insight into how the diamond thinks and
acts. If you act like that and "edify" (read: "imitate precisely") your
upline then you will be as successful as he is.
NS: It sounds like these tapes will be a great expense for me. I don't really
want to buy them.
UG: That is your decision to make. We are not here to push you into
anything. However, I must tell you that nobody really succeeds without the
tapes. You can't build this business without learning to edify your upline
geniuses.
NS: I don't believe that. I think I won't buy your stupid tapes.
UG: Fine. Don't buy them. But you realize, of course, that this leads me to
believe that you are always going to be uncooperative as my downline.
NS: Why should I care what you think?
UG: Well, if I feel like you're not going to work with me then I might not
keep working with you.
NS: Hmmm. You just said "Nobody really succeeds without the tapes." Now you
tell me you won't give me support unless I "choose" the successful path.
Isn't that a bit self-fulfilling?
UG: Yeah. So?
(Long pause.)
OUTCOME 1:
NS: I'll take ten tapes please.
UG (Big smile): Welcome to the wonderful world of Amway, kid!
OUTCOME 2:
NS: I quit.
UG: Whatever. (kicks NS out the door. Picks up black book of contacts and
calls next sucker on list.)
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 4 Jun 1998
Dear Russell - Hi I am in South Africa where Amway was launched nearly 10
months ago - I just want to thank you for saving me lots of money. I was a
bit sceptical about things and decided to check things out on the net and
I'm glad I ran into your site.
No way to amway!
Best regards and thank you once again
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Thu, 4 Jun 1998
hi there,
just read your amway warning story, very intteresting, i and my wife are
currently being asked if we would like to join up!! we are in the uk. i
have a friend that is in but i dont think he quite knows what he is doing
so i will show him your story.
hes been in it for a couple of weeks.
well thanks for the insight, i certainly wont be signing my soul away.
cheers
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Fri, 5 Jun 1998
Russell,
As we were "prospected" only last night on the Amway BUSINESS, it was good
to read about your experiences, and to see just how much parts of them have
paralleled ours.
We intend to decline the invitation tonight, based in no small part on
your dramas, and also after reading some very enlightening facts from a
rogue Emerald, also on the Net. I have only had internet for a couple of
months, and was beginning to wonder if I would ever use it for a worthwhile
purpose: perhaps today is a turning point.
Fri, 5 Jun 1998
I do think that you're making a difference with this site, in precisely
the way you intended--by providing that little bit of information which
will sway intelligent people away from the insidious cult that I believe
Amway to be.
I have sent the URL of your page to everyone I know in the hopes that
I'll hit some people in the middle of the pitch.
Thanks for helping topple this pyramid scheme that cheats vulnerable
people of their dreams.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sun, 7 Jun 1998
Wish I had read your story before I got involved with Amway. My wife and I
spent 4 years and a lot of money before I realized what was going on. I
finally had to figure out that the diamonds were making most of their money
off the tapes and books (tools) and seminars. why do you think they tell you
the tools and functions are so important and you need to go to everyting your
upline promotes. well it isn't for your own good it to take money out of your
pocket. You hear the same stuff at every meeting so why do you need to go to
another one. The speakers will tell you that your not going to tell you
anything you haven't heard before if you have listened to some tapes or
attented some of the seminars. It's so they can make money off it and they
don't tell you that. It took a while but we finally figured that if 20,000
people paid 80 to 100 dollars to attend one of the so called major functions
that there was a lot of money to be made. $100x20,000= TWO MILLION DOLLARS. I
figured that after the speakers, entertainment, and building were paid for at
one of these so called major functions which occur 4 times per year. there was
at least 1.5 million left over after expenses. The big pins get to split all
the money and that is what (the system) as it is called does for the big
Amway pins. It lines there pockets ( the diamonds) and the people who attend
who are not big pins think those guys get them to the seminar to help them. By
the way we are not losers we did't lose our dream (grin) we just got wise. If
there is some Amway distributor reading this yes we did build the business we
had a group of nearly 100 at one time and we reached the level of Silver.
Would'nt want anyone to think we just got in and quit and didn't sponsor
anyone. We sponsored 20 wide wanted to let you know that now. I feel bad about
that now but at the time I thought I was doing the right think. If anyone out
there reads this run don't walk away from Amway. When my wife and I figured
out what was really going on we told our upling that we were making money now
than ever because we were not going to seminars (amway people call them
functions) or buying the 2 tapes per week. You guess what happened. No I'll
tell you we were bypassed and our downline was told that we had lost our dream
(yea right) What we did was awakened form a bad dream. Don't get caught up in
the nightmare. Don' let them tell you that you can have freedom or retire from
your job early. All you will do is spend more time doing Amway not a job.
These Diamonds that are so called retired spend more time doing recruiting
meetings ect... than they would at a job but they make all this money not
telling people where it really comes from. They lead you to belive it is make
of the amway porducts( not true ) I just listende to a friends Amvox (Amway
voice mail) And there were two messages that were talking about the interned
and the lies and the losers. The message must be getting out to the world or
these big guys would't be talking to their downling saying this trying to
discredit the information that is on the net. The internet will be these big
Amway pins downfall. Thanks for having your site and for letting me vent my
anger at being suckered.
Subject: Amway
Mon, 8 Jun 98
Thanks for your page. It made a lot of sense to me, but then, I have always
viewed Amway with suspicion, and you confirmed them for me.
You might find this interesting...
Just an interesting little calculation of my own. If Amway is turning over
7 billion dollars, and has over a million participants
(distributors/whatever way you choose to describe them) as the literature
would appear to claim, it seems to show that the average turnover per
person is about 7000 dollars. This, of course, being turnover, even at a 30
percent mark up, it would leave each person with only 2100 dollars as
profit.
Scale this down as you please to take into account the actual number of
participants (which I believe is a claimed 2.5 million) and mark up
(particularly given the chain of payment principle), which could be less
than 10 percent, and you might even come up with a figure of 280 dollars a
year. This does not appear to be the standard of a self employed business
person for take home or taxable income.
In fact, at this mark up rate, for there to be a realistic take home pay
prospect (say 28000), the number of participants/distributors will need to
be less than 25,000. If each of them has 10 customers plain and simple,
these customers will have to be spending about 28000 dollars on products a
year.
This may be possible, but how probable do you think it is?
Would be interested in your response...
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Tue, 09 Jun 1998
Its 2 AM in the UK here, just wanted to drop you a line to say how
interesting and informative your Amway web site is, really enjoyed
reading it. I'm glad there's people who aren't afraid to voice their
thoughts and opinions and maybe prevent any negative influence Amway
has.
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Tue, 09 Jun 1998
Hi,
Accidently, I bumped into your AMAWAY site. And I couldn't resist myself. It
is 12:30 A.M. and I have just finished entire story. What is amazing about
the story is I am going through the same experience as You have mentioned in
Chapter 1. Before reading this site, I was sure about not joining the
AMAWAY, but was very polite with people who were contacting me. After
reading your site, I am sure I will get back to them and I want to get back
at them.
I would just write one example to show how hollow their talks are.
1. They do talk of extra money in free time and early retirement .... The
person who wanted to sponsor me ( he is direct ), has come down to my place
to help me out understand the concept on his 3-4 year old Son's birthday. He
and his wife didn't had any birthday party just as I was busy other day and
he wanted to meet me. Is this money really worth when You have to skip your
small kid's birthday ? I hope, some one will give me reply.
I decided against joining AMAWAY after first meeting with the above couple
as they asked me to dressed up in business suites for meeting. I couldn't
digest the idea of someone dictating a term to me for their benifit. I am a
kind of person, who never like to do things if it is forced,so I decided not
to go for meeting as well as not join them. But Your site has given me
enough strengh to tell them truth about not joining AMAWAY and why I have
decided .
Thanks a lot and try to keep the site up.......
Subject: Your Amway page...
Tue, 9 Jun 1998
Please keep my identity a secret, because if a friend of mine finds out I
wrote this he will not be very happy. This man is in his early 20's and up
to his ears in Amway....the only problem is that he has another job....about
a 30-hour a week job, very responsible position, and was doing great until
recently. He was once a happy, loving, caring, forceful man and now he has
become almost a zombie. It is truly sad. He hardly gets any sleep, and
when I point this out to him he denies it vehemently, saying "I am
young....I can handle it."
I feel as though he is being brainwashed big time, and I can't seem to be
able to help him....I feel that even if I try at this point, he will tell me
that I am maybe jealous of his success or that I am out on a mission to
destroy Amway.
He seems to have no spirit left in him. I tried to get him angry the other
day (I don't make a habit of getting people angry, I assure you), and
nothing. I was trying to see if he had any spirit left, any strength. It
is very sad to see and it hurts me very badly.
Please, if you can give me any words of wisdom, I would greatly appreciate
it.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 11 Jun 1998
Hey Russell,
Great page on Amway. I went along with my fiance to a "job
interview/coffee meeting" type thing tonight. It was for Amway. Since
I didn't know much about the company before or after the meeting I
decided to check the internet on info and have been reading horrible
things about them for the past 2 hours. Your page is definately an eye
opener and all I can say is I'm glad I found it. It saved me and my
fiance from possible making a huge mistake.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 11 Jun 1998
Russ,
One day you will be driving my limo.... You will be serving my iced tea
on the beach.... Get a life.... You will die an unhappy, divorced,
alcoholic...
I really wish these Amway distributors would think of insults that came
from THEIR OWN STINKING SKULLS! Alas, all of these insults can be found on
the classic Amway tape entitled "Comebacks To Non-Believers, Vol. IV" For
five bucks I'll be very happy to send you a copy....
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 11 Jun 1998
I was recently scouted by an amway couple our stories are remarkable
similar. I enjoyed your stories and all the others I've found and
luckily I found them before ***** an ***** got my $169.
In addition when I searched the net I got anti-Amway sites ( in YAHOO)
just by typing "Amway" they're under comsumer opinion that's where I
went first.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 11 Jun 1998
Dear Ginny:
I am an Amway distributor and would like to comment on your web page. I
read portions of it and feel the need to write you.
I have been involved in the business for 6 years and it is the best thing
that has ever happened to me! Not only is this business an absolutely
viable business for making a great income, but it has enriched my life in
so many other ways. I have personnally grown to point of succeeding in
other areas of my life. I have significantly increased my income at my job
outside of Amway and been promoted from all of the heartfelt teaching and
wonderful books that are recommended. My marriage, which was already
strong, is even more enriched.
As far as your upline seducing your husband, that is certainly an
unfortunate incident. But, I do want to say that anyone can become an
Amway distibutor and there are moral and immoral people in every business
out there. This incident is not a reflection of Amway, it is a reflection
of that distibutor. I also have to say that I have been around the
business long enough and have seen people come and go, and the people who
truly succeed long term are good ethical people. The Amway "system" has a
way of eventually weeding out the people who truly are not in it to help
people long term.
You have a right to your opinion, but that is just what it is, an opinion.
I also want to add that your opinion is based on only 3 weeks of experience
in the business. It takes years to fully understand the Amway business and
what it has to offer. Like any other business, it takes hard work,
determination, and time to succeed. If it didn't it would not be
legitimate. If you compare the costs of building an Amway business to any
other business, there is simply no comparison. There are costs involved,
as there are with any business, but they are nominal compared to
franchises, etc...which cost $100,000 or so up front just to get started,
as opposed to $200.00 or so in Amway.
I just want to say that with the right line of sponsorship, this business
is the best business out there, bar none. And as far as the corporation,
Amway, they have more integrity and care more about their distributors and
treat them better than any other company out ther, bar none.
Signed,
An Informed Distributor
Subject: Re: Your Amway page...
Sun, 14 Jun 1998
Regarding your letter, you have apparently confused Ginny with me. I am the
one who only looked at Amway for three weeks, although I have been maintaining
this web page and collecting stories for two years. Ginny and her ex-husband
were distributors for two years.
I have forwarded your letter to you, and I'm sure she'll be pleased to
receive it, as you are her first official "flame." :)
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 11 Jun 1998
Kick ASS!!! You KICK ASS, dude! I appreciate you making me feel better
after AMWAY almost ruined our life a few years back. In fact, it's why
I lost my position in the Army, and had to start over with life.
Amway is a scam. And I'd like to address all who sent you mail saying
they felt "sorry" for you and etc. If I had a napalm round for every
major Diamond who checked their morals at the door...I'd be in the air
at this moment, defending the REAL Americans who would like to defend
the population from radicals and CULTISTS! However, I can't, because I
AM ALL AMERICAN and believe in people's freedom of religion, speech, and
etc. In fact, I've spent 10 of the best years of my life protecting
that freedom. It's just unfortunate that I also defend the scammers who
take advantage of people every day and in every way.
ALL OF YOU DESIRING CONCRETE PROOF AND FACTS:
Here you go: http://207.226.186.156/index.htm
If you want facts, figures, and proof...read this site. Good stuff.
I'd definitely put it on my book of the month list!!
Drive on, bro! In fact, post it up high and proclaim truth. Truth will
set us free, and GOD BLESS AMERICA!
I know if anyone out there doubts my patriotism, they have a serious
problem that no one can help them with.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
Well, I just felt like sharing my experience with you on my encounter
with the (Borg) Amway reps...
I came home from work one night to a message on voicemail from a
gentleman who said he got ahold of one of my business cards. He said
that he had a business and he thinks he found a match. Now, let me tell
you about myself. I am a computer technician who is accomplished with
the building, upgrading, and repairing of computers, and I am in
training with Novell and Windows NT networks. I thought that he had a
legitimate computer business offer for me since my card clearly states
computer technician. I agreed to meet him for coffee. He asked me to
bring my fiancee with because he "found it easier to talk to both people
in a relationship when making a career move." I thought this was a nice
gesture, but kind of odd...
So we met at a local restaurant. My fiancee and I arrived first, and
let's call him "Bill" since he looked very much like Bill Gates, and
Bill arrived about 15 minutes later. He sat down and we started making
small talk to get to know each other better. He asked me what I knew
about computers and when I told him I was in training for Novell 3.12
and 4.11 and Windows NT, he just nodded. I got the impression that he
had absolutely NO idea what I was talking about. All of a sudden, a
female rep arrived, she will be called "Sue" just for no other reason
than she didn;t look like anyone famous. Sue sat down and we made some
more small talk. At this point my fiancee and I still had no idea when
these two people wanted. We didn't even know that Sue was coming. After
about 20 minutes of talking, he started to explain to us about the way a
retail store gets their product. I knew all of this already because I
had business education in high school and I liked that class. I also had
my own small computer business and went through a distributor for parts.
At this point I was finishing sentences for him. I knew what he was
talking about so I impressed him very much. Now he started talking about
the concepts of his business and how it all worked. When he said that we
had to sign people up to get products, I immediately knew that this was
no good. I got sucked a similiar situation once with a company named
Kirby. You might know of them, they sell $1,600.00 vacuums. I worked for
two weeks with them and never got paid. Even thought they "guaranteed
$200 a week, even if you didn't sell anything." Bill saw the realization
hit my face when I started paying more attention to my salad than to
him. My fiancee was already looking around too. We told him about Kirby
when he asked what was wrong. He told us that it was a "marketing"
position, not a "sales" position. He gave us some more of his rhetoric,
which I admit, was convincing. We agreed to take his introductory
materials home and look them over. This was last night (6/10/98). On the
way home, I told my fiancee that we should look them up on the internet,
especially because she was considering taking their offer. Bill told us
that we could do it part time. From what I read on your webpage, I know
that was a fallacy. I am SO glad that we did look up Amway on the
internet. Now we can return his material and save ourselves $166.00. The
internet has already saved us money. hehehe =)
I have a meeting again with Bill this saturday at noon. I am going
to go in my weekend clothes, not formal this time, hand him back his
packet, and tell him not to call us again. I am also thinking about
printing out your story and handing it to him along with his packet.
Ok, a little more info on me... I am going to be 21 this June 25th.
As I said, I am a computer technician, looking to WORK in the computer
field (not the scamway field). I also listen to rock music...More
precisely, heavy metal, including thrash, speed, power, and death metal.
My weekend attire consists of blue jeans, boots, and black concert
shirts, some of which are gory. Believe me when I say, I am going to
wear an offensive shirt to make sure he doesn't call me again.
I will let you know how it turns out on Saturday when I meet him for
the final time. Please feel free to write back to me, I would love to
discuss this at any point in time.
Subject: Ginny's Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
I read your story. I am glad you are ok and were able to get back to your
child. My neice and her husband are at the convention at Buffalo this wk
end as i am writing to you, they have to drive from New Jersey, hope they
make it home ok. I also read the story about Yaeger. While reading that
itself, i had a feeling that this whole thing could involve extra marital
relationships, which proved from your story. I hope many people read your
story and hold on to their health marriage and not get involved in this
money making madness of Amway. If one is making to emerald or diamond its
only at the expense of others. Take care, i am happy you are out of this
business.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
I don't want to flame you. You are correct. I am reading your story in a
vague hope that I might be able to fing something to help me break the
vapor lock that Amway (through ILD) has on my Brother-in-Law and his wife.
Amway is not the real culprit (although I wouldn't doubt that they support
the religion), the Amway Motivational Organizations are. It is the Britt
System, ICCA, InterNET, and World Wide that are the culprits. They are the
ones that are selling the tapes. Amway isn't going to come down on them
though because they will lose 90% of their market pretty damn quick if it
came out openly that the only way to make money in amway was to sell
motivational Tapes.
I read on another web site that the largest downline, a man in Japan with 42
direct Directs under him was responsible for 40% of Amways Japans sales and
12% of Amways sales overall was paid a total of 2.15 million dollars by
amway for one years work. 5 Billion X .12 = $600 Million. He got a
measly 2.1 Million. This is the Grand Pubah of Amway.
What would happen if the 99% of Amway that currently loses money learned
that they can save more money by buying non amway products, investing in
their companies 401k, stop going to Rallies, buy sensible products and set
themselves goals that can be reached without killing themselves. The whole
entire pyramid collapses with a very loud bang. Who is going to get hurt.
Not a one of the diamonds. They will hopefully have saved enough money to
retire on. Its everyone underneath them that has been taugh to spend every
cent, every waking moment on Amway.
I always hesitate to take a disgruntled individuals information at face
value. [Name deleted by request of the owner]'s site worried me because it sounded downright illegal,
like something the mafia would do. But it fit into everything my in-laws
have said or done. Listening only to their uplines for advice. Dismissing
our advice out of hand, because we weren't "Millionaires," or experts in
financial fields. (I may not be an expert, but I am well on my way to the
same level of Capital that his uplines claim to have). I have been dabbling
in personal finance since I got out of college. I have dabbled in the "Get
Rich Quick Schemes." I have never lost any money (okay maybe $1000 over the
last 8 years) and a couple of programs have brought me amazing understanding
of what to do if I ever come up with that amazing idea that will bring the
world to my door (Charles Givens I credit with about $1500/month of positive
income, Wade Cook didn't make me any money, but did open my eyes to what a
personal Corporation can do for you). I understand a lot abou the Time
Value of Money. Unfortunately it is almost impossible to penetrate the
shield of Amway "Don't let them steal your dream".
I have to continue trying to penetrate that barrier. I don't want to
denounce Amway, but I do want them to understand what a 401k does and why
it is a good thing that you can't get at it easily. Why any Tax Deferred
instrument is a good thing. But I am not his upline, so am not a reliable
source of information.
Please continue posting information about Amway. I am directing people to
yours and other sites of a similar theme. As Ashley Wilkes so aptly put in
the his email to me (and everyone else that sends him mail I am sure)
"Someday the motivation predators will be held accountable for their
deceptions," but it will only be through the help of people like you who
put the effort out to spread the word.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
I was already against Amway when I read you page, but thanks again for
taking the time to build the page.
One thing that always bugged me about amway is the lack of understanding
that you can't sell air very easily. Someone has to make something. Amway
makes a product, but they have people working hard to fulfill the orders
that are sent in. Amway may never fail, but it really seems like it is on
legs that can crack easily.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
Hello,
I'd like to recant my Amway experience. I became a distributor in
1989. I was completely hooked into the ability to make my dreams come
true. I was a recent college graduate in the area of business
logistics. Distribution and its systems were part of my classes, so I
became instantly interested when someone came by my apartment to talk to
my roommate about a small business opportunity. The idea of being able
to realize all of the dreams I dreamed n college about being the
youngest vice-president in the history of some large company were all of
a sudden shown to me in a lightning flash of the big A. No one would
actually reveal the name of the company behind the large distribution
system formed and subscribed to by Fortune 500 companies. It took over
a month to realize that Amway was the "parent company" behind this
magic. All I had to do was see me in the middle as a circle and find 10
otherslikeme and life would just change, alter, transmutate into a
$%$&@%& rainbow with so much gold at the end, an accountant and six
assistants couldn't count it all. I then proceeded to recruit about 6
people consisting of two levels of downline that purchased a total of
$62.00 each month of these delightfully quality products that really
didn't cost me that much after the bonuses I would doubtfully receive
after the first month kicked in.
So, events were planned, rally's were held where the adrenaline was
pumped, the excitement was ceiling high, and the ability of every single
one of us was the same. I do agree that any human is capable of
tremendous things with the right attitude, vehicle and timing, but not
every damn distributor is going to be a Diamond! I bought the tapes,
the books and the tools that were going to help me. What I found most
disconcerting was that the group I became involved with was a group that
happened to be Christian. I do not condemn anyone for their religious
beliefs, but when I was quietly told that I HAD to accept Jesus Christ
as my personal savior and that God had a perfect plan for me if I would
only let him direct me in my life, I would have a tremendously
successful business. If I didn't, my business wouldn't be as big. I
met many people that were genuinely caring and wanting the best for me.
I attribute this to their personal qualities and not the business, but I
just didn't want to be Christian. There are three major religions in
this world and Christianity is but one of them, and certainly a blooded
one at that. I am not going to get into an argument about the pluses
and minuses of a religion, but to tell people that they won't be
successful if they don't become one of the gang is blantantly
#%#$@#$@#$.
Network marketing is a viable instrument to get a product or service out
in this world's economy. Some are tainted by the people that work them,
but others are sound business choices. Federal Express was founded on
the same kind of principle. UPS is the same. Actually, most
corporations are structured very much like a network marketing busines,
except that some allow individuals to make more money that the person at
the top. I work for a $250 million company and my bonus last year was
about $2000. The CEO got a bonus of about $1 million. I work my ass
off and get a bit while this person garners the efforts of many others
and gets one hell of a lot more. My point is that Amway sells the
dream, but doesn't deliver. Don't allow this system to give the idea of
network marketing a bad name. It is a sound business idea, just some of
the people that work within it misguide, lie, deceive, and profit from
others failures. Be careful, investigate any company that promises
humungous rewards. Some may be real, but others are a cover.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Fri, 12 Jun 1998
I was approached by a guy that said he did not work for AMWAY, but that
the company he worked with dealt with AMWAY. He told me that what he
was into was not a get rich quick scheme, and he also pointed out that
what he did was not for everybody. He said I would not have to pay any
monthly fees, or sign any contracts.
I am constantly studying, and I don't have a lot of time to read your
story, I will when I get time. But could you tell me if my situation
sounds familiar.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 1)
Sat, 13 Jun 1998
Very interesting Russell. I too have been approached by a sponsor.
Money does seem to be very motivating to these people. I too have been
thinking what have i got to loose, but i have many doubts as well.
Please tell me more if possible, thanks in advance, Ken
Subject: Thanks
Mon, 15 Jun 1998
Thank you so very much for giving me all this information. I was about to
sign up this evening, even though I had so many questions left. My late
husband always told me that Amway was a piramid marketing scheme and was
totally against it. I thought that they had changed (INA) and things were
different now. I really was sceptical when I tried to compare the prices
in the catalogues (the real expertise I have), because I can buy most items
at a much lower price. I was swayed by their friendlyness and my
lonliness. I am so glad I went to the Internet to get more information.
Thanks again.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Mon, 15 Jun 1998
Dear Sir,
I am talking to a gentleman who is with Britt Worldwide. He is decent.
He is a kind elderly man. Your site is (so far) one of the nicest
anti-Amway sites I've seen. You're not cruel and sometimes even on the
funny side.
Here's my question. As not all Amway reps are the same (I'm trying to
avoid the logical fallacy of over-generalization), do you know anything
specific about Britt Worldwide?
Thank you for any info that may help...
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Tue, 16 Jun 1998
Dear Russel,
excellent!! As the Vice President of an Internet Company I can
honestly say that your friend Phil in the story is wrong in how many
people you can reach and influence...... I read your story because
we had one experience last year with a similar
company called herbal life, they wanted us to make home pages for
them and tried to convince us to pay them to do so to be allowed a
higher level entry level... the price by the way was 20,000 dollars
or 2,000,000 Japanese Yen, "NOT". Also of yesterday we where
aproached again by an Isreali company who at the end of his pitch
mentioned MLM marketing. (It was the first time I'd heard the term,
and didn't know until today that Amway is an MLM/ pyramid company) So
I decided to do a search on the web and ended up on your page, we
have decided after all our research to not do any business with them.
It appears to me that the American Entrepeneral set have decided to
feed directly off the American dream of success.
"there is nothing free in this world, there is no easy way to success"
ps. I love making animations there is nothing better in this world,
therfore I love my Job........
Subject: HOW IRONIC...
Tue, 16 Jun 1998
Hi my name is ***** and I am a student at the University of
south Florida, about to graduate in International Marketing.
I recently opened by own business that basically utilizes the same system
as amway, except that there is no lying, scheming, manipulating etc...
We are decent honest people that do not force anybody to buy anything. We
simply OFFER them to try something that they are ALREADY USING and need
every day and we...
well why don't you just check out the company for yourselves and let me
know what you think about it. I have been involved for about 3 months and
I feel good about myself and I like the residual income. Please get back
to me as soon as you can.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Tue, 16 Jun 1998
"What have we learned so far? That Amway bankrupts people by forcing
them to pay money for reeducation, which profits no one except those
at the highest levels. That Amway uses said motivational materials to
crush your spirit and make you dependent on them for all your needs
in life, be they financial, emotional, or spiritual. That Amway
demands fundamental changes in your personality which wreck your
personal relationships."
My question are . . . ..
If the money paid for reeducation in the Amway business benefits no one
except those in the highest levels how did they get to the highest
levels?
If the motivational materials crush your spirits why do they call them
motivation materials and why do they center on self improvement, family
values, and a higher entity?
If the changes in you personality that Amway demands wreck your personal
relationships than why is there a divorce rate of 1% in the Amway
community?
I personally am not an Amway Distributor nor do I ever plan to be.
However I have a lot of very close friends that are and do receive
approximately $3800.00 monthly for only spending 15 hours a week going
to functions and, as you put it, "recruiting".
I would appreciate a response! Thank you for your time and
consideration.
Also, I am curious why you are attempting to discourage individuals from
being involved with Amway only because you were unsuccessful. Why rip
from them of the opportunity to possibly be, as you put it, one of those
on the higher levels? Or for that matter, discourage those who are doing
well but, as we all do in our line of expertise, begin to doubt their
abilities and success in life?
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
Dude! Crazy f'rkin' story!!
Well... lot's-o-thanks go to my little lady for giving me your name as
part of a web page she recently read on these types of "people helping
people" schemes. I guess by your terms, my "Ted" is supposed to call me
up sometime tomorrow night and try to get me to go to a "Network
Twenty-One" meeting... NOT ANYMORE!! You know, now I'm wondering if
"Amway" changed their name 'cause of people like you! Heh, heh, heh...
:) Thanks A LOT for the story and the reality check.
... and by the way... you've probably heard this way too much by now...
but regarding making a difference in the world, you've already passed
that stage in life! :) Take it easy bud! Peace!
Subject: Amway or Go away
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
Hi
I am from South Africa, I have just recently been approached to join the
"Amway" Network21 business. (I haven't yet, Reasons below)
First impression "cool let's make some BUCKS"
Then it all unfolded to me, they started harassing my friends and family
(and off cause my friends got pissed off at me. For trying to get them
hooked, reason they received a phone call just about every fucking day,
inviting and trying to convince them to join, NO means NO to some
people.
A point that got pushed heavily, is before buying into the business,
they MUST first attend the huge conferences to for sure make up there
minds, as they put it.
"A seminar like this is a opportunity of a life time, it is a
combination of a Rock Concert & a Seminar and you MUST attend this" All
most forcing this issue.
(To me if you see a good business opportunity, you would do some
research on the company and then ask around to find out who knows
something about this company, finally you would make up your own mind as
to do this or not, you don't need some Rock Concert that is going to set
you back R450 per ticket ecl. accommodation for three days)
Some people just don't have the extra cash to do this, and it looks like
some people just don't care. Every body has there own budget.
So the ? why are they pushing the Seminars and tools so hard. Is that
how they make there bucks, or do they really just make money off the PV
through sales + 4% royalties ect.
Anyway this is merely my point of view, and to say that the have highly
pissed me and my friends off.
Subject: Good web stie. You are right in some respects, wrong in others.
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
First let me start buy saying there is good money to be made retail.I have 68
customers who said no but they decided to be customers instead. I make about
750$ a mont retaiilng, not a mint but over 8k a yaer for about 4hrs a week.
the four hrs. is people calling in orders and me delivering. i even mail some
stuff out "mail order' also works. I listen to tapes but thats my choice I
have never been to a major function despite what theysay they aren't
nessasary. If my down line which is 14 people in my first line wants to go i
don't stop them but I dont pressure them to go. i have only been in 18
months and yes I am a direct. I'm not allowed to say how much I make but it
is at least 2000 a month=). I'll get a free trip to disneyland or wereever
what's called Q-12 is next year. All expenses paid, can't beat that. Amway
IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY. Some will get in and go direct or higher some won't,
but, not all people are blazing sucesses at what they do I'm in the military,
high school educated,etc. some people think we're just drunken sailors.
When I get out I can choose my job because I like it not because of a degree
or pay level. I like the ability to choose. my wife chose to be a mom and
not a career woman. She can go back into the job market if she wants but I
don't think she will. When I was in for about 9 months I felt like you I've
been had everybody knows this is s scam but me! AAAAUUUUGGGHHH! I stuck it
out though and now I make a pretty good living at it. When two people went
direct in my business i got a check from Amway. I noticed that on fact
wasn't in you letter there is other money available besides pv/bv money.
These bonuses are for actually helping others build their businesses to
direct and above because you can't do all of it alone. i noticed that you
did not include when people go direct they leave your business and you only
get 3% of the volume not their profits. This number gets smaller as their
business gets bigger. end pt.1
Subject: some true some not
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
pt. 2
Anyway you need to get your hands on a copy of whats caled the millineum
bonuses. if you had gotten in you would have recieved a copy of the business
rules and regulations and you wolud've gotten more facts not hear say. You
forgot one thing in your letter IT IS YOUR BUSINESS AND NOBODY ELSES! If you
can't handle the pressure of the big mettings then don't go or just block out
the sponsor/upline when he pitches the system. it's just as easy as blocking
out your mom when she is lecturing you a few well placed umhmm's, ok's, and
yeah's and let them go about their business as long as your business is
growing they will keep doing metings for you hoping you will"come around". I
won't lie my downline business takes about 20-30 hrs a month for big house
meetings I try to show the plan to about 7-10 people a month but since I feel
this is consturctive time I don't really count it because with 4 vcrs and
cable + a dish I don't miss much. Ispend about4-10hrs a week doing paper
work and call in from my downline is handled by a secretary. i actually
deliver to some customers others come and pick up ( their choice). This
summer i plan on attending my First major function at a total cost of 2200$
that includes plene tickets and hotel. I live in Hawaii so travel cost are
high but many corporate execs spend much more for their companies
motivational stuff and they only do it in a but kissing sense. This is what
my wife tells me anyway. the thing is this trip is my choice MY CHOICE, not
the systems proding. I've made lifelong friends in this business and many
people thak me for the fact I showed them the business. I thank themm for
building it and helping me and i tell them to do the same to there downline.
here's a little side note. Theoretically 1 in 1000 goes diamond not bad odds
considering the retarded odds people put up with in lotteries and
sweepstakes. Here's is my suggestion get in for 5 months and 25 days because
you can get a full refund in 6 . go your own way or follow the system you are
in with honest effort not call 3 people get blasted down and quit.. Keep in
mind any tools you buy from a systemmyou are in may not have a money back
clause. amway is very vocal in this point, they have a agreement you sign
saying you won't sue if you buy business materials not reviewed and approved
buy them. there are distributors in Bill britt and dexter yeagers
organizations suing Amway Yeager and Britt over business support materials.
They won't get a dime from Amway but they may get restitution from the
distributors. The name brand products are compariably priced, sometimes
higher, sometimes and mostly lower than other " mail order products". They
represent a larger diversity of companies thannother catalogs. my opinion
only. all mail order companies charge a handeling fee, plus regular shipping
and handling, Prove me wrong on this fact. many people will miss out on s
pretty simple business to run because of your letter and web page. Notice I
said simple and not easy! It's not easy at first but it gets easier. There
is still plenty of pain in the but stuff to deal with but what business is
trouble free/ i don't have sick employees, workmans comp,or a company
insurance policy to carry though. No liability insurance either. Once you
go past a certain level all you do is check your books do house plans and a
few one on ones. in the 18 months i've been in I've sponsored " a good
number of peop;e" only 14 have stayed i work as hard for them as they work
for themselves, it's a nice tradeoff. Did you know you could start a
distributorship without buying the products that come with the kits? bet you
didn't and that's the person who tried to sponsor you fault for not telling
you. Do yuo have to buy the products yes you can't sell what you don't use I
feel. this business may not be for you but i hope you find one that is
because being "free" is great!
signed doing my own thing in Hawaii
Subject: being "cut-off from" Amway & business ownersize of business
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
Hi it's Hawaii again,
I don't know who gets cut off from Amway for not buying tapes but it sounds
to me like they either didn't bitch loud enough to their upline. NOT THEIR
SPONSOR their upline. If you are legitatemaly trying to build you business
they will help you I haven't seen my sponsor in 4 months but my upline helps
me because i create voleme a.k.a working my business.Or they are not really
building their business. at your job when people don't produce they get
fired right? This works the same way only you can't really be fired. They
sa-4400 tells you all you need to know about building the business anything
you do or buy extra is on you. The 6-4-2 concept is not easy and I feel
people get frustraed to easy and take a no to their business personally. If
salesmen tool no's personally the sales industry would be full of rookies.
This isolation is a result of thier amo not amway they need to search around
for the "best amo" I'm in one called world wide dream builders. we have about
75 diamonds and 70 emeralds of which I will be one soon. These #'s represent
the ones who are still active in the system doing seminars and rallies since
I am not " active in the system" I will not be on our diamond/ emerald list I
won't ever cut a tape but who cares I'm happy where I'm at.
As for buying your own products I drive fords because out of all the
dealerships I went to the one salesman we got at Ford actually was driving a
recent Ford. Yes amway markets a lot of name brands but so does k-mart,
wal-mart, and cosco. I always felt comparing the amway opportunity to Mickey
dees was dumb so when I show the plan I don't use the Mcdonalds comparison. I
compare it to a retail out let like k-mart or sears. this is a more logical
comparison diversifeid product lines and such. truth be told if you owned a
k-mart would you shop at wal-mart if you had a like product in stock? would
you want your friends and family shopping at your competitors? When people
come into my home they say "man you got all this amway stuff here!" I think
"Duh!" But I tell them this stuff paid for my new mustang pluss I like a lot
of it. I don't but everything from amway but anything I see I can use from
my business i get it. it's also easier because i'm direct. using 6-4-2 you
end up with 78 people in your group. do you know all 78? No.
As for being your own owner I already know your answer to this but here's
my take on it. My business has a name yes C. &D. Business Opportunities .
when people ask me what it is or if it is Amway i tell them .Why? because I
find people like honesty. Some role their eyes some don't either they are
looking for a way to be in business or not. Your busines is yours Amway makes
it easy to "franchise it" although I hate that waor but it comes closest to
describing it. You are right when you say there is no clear deffinition of a
pyrimad scheme but I already make more than my sponsor and his sponsor so the
scam part doesn't apply. everybody starts at the bottom but your imcome
changes so the scam part doesn't apply. Oh! By the way p&g lost the lawsuit
and had to pay damages to Amway I found that out on the Money magazine web
site. When you open a K-mart your business card won't say John Doe c.e.o. of
k-mart it can'tbut probobaly John Doe business owner. Your business moves
products for k-mart but it is your business. You follow k-marts basic plan
and off you go. Now you'll probobaly have an answer for this but thanks to
free speech we can exchange ideas and such. As you know and pointed out
companies don't market with Amway because it's the best they do it because uf
the customer base. which despie popular belief is not just distributors. 18
months in i have 2 directs in my business one directly sponsored and one
popped up in depth after several personally sponsored legs quit. I'll admit
This was partially luck to find to amriods so quickly but I'll take it.
Theoretically sometime in the next2-5 years 4 more will pop up. 1:1000 I'mm
playing the odds that I'm the one=). I wont know all the people in my
business just the really busy ones. At least one of you calculations is
wrong. There were 3 million distributors inAmway worldwide last year 1997.
The 41% active # means 1.23 million active based on 6-4-2 ,15700 went direct
in97,2628 went diamond or from diamond up. true many of these directs
would've popped up in established diamond legs. My point is ther are plenty
of people making money in this. when I write again I'll get the #'s from my
amagram. that's amways monthly magazine. In reality all These Numbers are
speculation and unless we do amways books we'll never know.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...I like it
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
howdy it's hawaii again'
One thing I noticed about people who rubut you story they all
never state where they are in the business and they seem to for get it's
not about trashing amway it's about your own single experince with Amway.
People like these people make it harder for people like me. They say you'll
fail without knowing your qualifications or if you are really good at it or
not. They also seem to forget that the basic principle behind Amway is free
enterprise and capitalisim! You obviously have a plan for your future and
you have the right idea of eventually working for yourself. You to realize
that self employment is key to sucess. lets keep in touch dude.
aloha! =)
Subject: My reply to your Amway page/ tapes and books
Thu, 18 Jun 1998
Question dude if the big pins in Amway make all there money of of
tapes and books how do these organizations pay for the rallies and
seminars. It cost money to fly diamomds all over the world. There are
regionals every month on friday and saturday. The soct of renting out
the auditorimus and conference rooms must bee substancial to say
the least. I believe unless you see a persons books you can't
truly say how much they are making off of what . Anyway keep
exercising your free speech rights and I'll keep exercisng mine to
respond.
signed,
it's me in hawaii again.
p.s. do you have a po box i can mail you some secret amway info a? it' my
stamp.
Subject: Your AMWAY page
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
Well whoever,
"The prices in there wasenough to make me laugh! " --- you make me laugh.
You know why, because you are one of those people who only look at a price
and make your decision based on the price, and not QUALITY and QUANTITY.
Anycase, no need to fight with you. You're not even in Amway, thus I will
not ask you for any comments on AMWAY.
"I choose the phone card business because it does nothave any type of
networking or MLM structure. I just sale the cards." So what do you do if
you are sick for a week and a day. You want me to tell you? I'll tell you
... YOU WON'T GET PAID. You know why? 'cause you are 100% relied onto your
OWN efforts, where-as in a MLM environment, you are 5% relied onto your own
effort.
Just a point of interrest ... They have asked Bill Gates who he thinks will
take the people into the 21st century, and you know what he said : AMWAY.
Now look, whether you as a person believes it or not, it's not gonna make a
difference to us because we are still going to make money, but it can surely
make a big difference to you ... or wait ... It won't even work for you? you
know why? because you have a looser's attitude.
Go give you boss tommorrow the biggest hug and tell him you love him. And
while you're at it, ask him for a significant raise.
OK. Nice chatting to you and please do REPLY. I'd love to hear from you
SOON.
Best regards
Subject: Fw: Your AMWAY page
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
"Glad I came tomy senses before I got assimilated into the cult."
--- Oooo I like this one. Do you know what a cult is? A cult is a
organisation where everyone do exactly as you telll them. In Amway, they
don't do what you tell them to do.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Wed, 17 Jun 1998
Very interesting. I didn't read all of it, but enough to know that you
share a lot of my feelings about this. I have a friend who is trying to
convince me it's the best thing that can happen to me. I've been
skeptical. I searched on the internet to find positive things about
Amway and came across your information. It's too religious and a bit of
a cult. I think you summed it all up!
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 18 Jun 1998
Dear Russell,
Just got done reading your Amway pages. I enjoyed them immensely.
I was involved in the the Amway business from late 1992 to 1997. I feel
the Amway corporation is in itself is a decent business. What makes the
business destructive are the AMO's. If I would have known what I do now, I
would have never got involved.
The AMO's are a mind controlling cult with a hidden agenda......
Christian fundemantalism, extreme right wing politics and to line their
pockets with new recruits money by pushing the "system". It took me along
time to figure why the system was so "IMPORTANT" and must be supported so
heavily. Because it lines the Directs and aboves pockets.
I remember about two years into the business i was probably about a
2500, I called my direct, who was my sponsor, and counseled with him about
the tapes. I told him I had already purchased all of the tapes off of the
list. What should I do know I asked? He told to buy them again so I will
have an extra set to loan out to prospects.... HELLO.... It only took me
another year to figure that out. He must have made a couple of hundred bucks
off of me by telling me that.
I found out about three years in the business about the nature of the
AMO's monetary compensation for successful distributors. I have no problem
with the leaders in the AMO's making money from the system. But it is the
way it is hidden and covered up that bothers me. It is NEVER mentioned that
a large portion of the money they make is system money. It is very deceptive
in the way it is handled. I bet a good portion of the people in the Amway
business have no idea that this practice goes on. If more people knew about
these practices, I am sure that alot more questions would be raised about
hidden agendas of the AMO's. When I learned these facts I basically stopped
supporting the "system". The bottom line with AMO's is money. The larger
pins in the business make you believe that they truly care about you to get
you in but in reality all they care about is your money.
I have been inactive in the Amway business for about a year now.
Looking back, my sponsors who were my "friends" in the business have never
called me once to find how I was doing "post Amway". This tells me I was
just a dollar sign for them. I had a substantial business doing about 6000
pv at its peak. I now call my sponsors about once every two months to place
an order for customers I had collected along the way of my " AMJourney" ,
and I talk to my sponsor's wife during product call in. Never once has she
asked me how things are going, what am I doing to make a living etc. Tells
me they only care about the money they can make off of me. Now that they
can not make any money off me they do not care.
My last little story and I will wrap this up.... I went to my last major
function in the summer of 1997. It was a family reunion in Arizona. I had
mentally already flushed the system but I had decent sized group going to
the function which meant I had to go or risk being ostracized by my sponsor
in front of my group. I went to this function...this time as an
outsider....who was in the beginning stages of deprogramming from the
cult... and I just watched and listened to the proceedings. I have to admit
I was in the middle of 5000 brain donors. They all checked there brain at
the door and werent willing to question anything.
It ha been a year since I checked out of Amway and the AMO. I must admit
the I am almost completely debugged of all of the support organization mumbo
jumbo. I started another business after I went inactive about a year ago.
I am much happier and more relaxed. Now when someone asks what I do I can
tell them exactly what I do and not give them some double talk.
If anyone out there is thinking about joining the Amway business be
very careful and research it completely. There is life outside of Amway and
you can be successful in other things. Life is not only about money. It is
one and only one aspect.
Also question everything and dont be afraid to think critically. Or you
may become a BRAIN DONOR!!
Subject: Your Amway page...
Fri, 19 Jun 1998
Glad to see you have a sense of humor about this. My neighbor invited my
wife and me over "to meet a real good friend of ours" the other night. Both
of us nearly bust a gut laughing. I can see how the Amway lines could work
on impressionable minds, luckily my wife and I are both severe cynics and
enjoyed a good laugh.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Wed, 24 Jun 1998
thanks. you answered my questions very clearly. it was almost to late if
you know what i am saying. thanks again!!!!
Subject: My reply to your Amway page
Wed, 24 Jun 1998
Great web site!!
My husband and I were approached several days ago and have attended a
meeting. We were mad as hell to find out half way through the
presentation that it was Amway. What a total waste of time. The worst
part is that I have a hard time saying no to people, and I think that
they prey on me for being too nice. When the guy called back I even
said that we were thinking about it, even though we are not!! After
reading through your web site, I think I should just print it out and
give it to the guy, maybe he'll get the hint--but then again with my
luck--maybe he won't!! Anyways thanx for such an informative site, Good
luck in the Silicon Valley!!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Wed, 24 Jun 1998
Russell -
I was amazed at the amount of time that you placed in your Web pages to
this matter. Fortunately the opportunity I found in the Amway business
and International Leadership Development was drastically different. I
wish yours had been.
I do wish you the best of luck in whatever you are doing and pray that
you have more happiness and joy in what you are doing now and in the
future than what you placed in your Web site.
Subject: Amway is a Joke!!
Wed, 24 Jun 1998
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 2)
> I do wish you the best of luck in whatever you are doing and pray that
> you have more happiness and joy in what you are doing now and in the
> future than what you placed in your Web site.
Thank you. If I have more happiness and joy than the time I spent on
my web site, I'll have a wonderful time indeed.
Subject: Your Amway page
Wed, 24 Jun 1998
Russell,
Recently I found your Amway page. I know it's been up there a while, and I
have read your replies (some of them) and I must say they are fascinating
indeed. I was especially "moved" by the guy who said he was "writing this
on his lanai in Maui" and that he made 75K. Excuse me, but since when does
75K get you a place in Maui? Does he know that Maui is in Hawaii, one of
the most expensive places in the US to live? Secondly, if I had a place "in
Maui with a lanai", would I be wasting my time on the www? Or would I be
walking the "beaches of the world" instead???
My husband and I have some friends who are living the Am way of life. They
are about to lose their shirts, but they would rather die than admit it.
They have completely changed since they became obsessed with Dexter, et,al.
They have pictures of gaudy, expensive crap plastered all over their house
(you know, "see it, be it!) How sad. We let them "practice" the plan on us
when they first started, hoping we could talk some sense into them, boy,
were we dreaming! Speaking of dreams...what is this nonsense about people
being able to steal one another's dreams? If someone can talk a person out
of their dream, how bad did they want it in the first place??? Yikes! Keep
up the good work!
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 25 Jun 1998
Hey, I just wanted to tell that I was laughing when I read your
story-because I think everyone's story is the same. I went to many affairs
and decided it wasn't for me. I had to tell my soon to be "uplines" who
were persistent calling me at 7:00 am because I'd be home then. They were
more mad when I pulled out than my friend who introduced me to them. It's
makes you wonder... I'm just glad I got out before I spent any $$. And
wasted time.
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Thu, 25 Jun 1998
Hi Russel,
Im asking many of my friends back in my home country of India to
check your website out, since Amway has now started off in India in a
big way. I hope that atleast by checking your story out, sense
will dawn on the poor people there about to be conned. Your webpage is
an excellent work. The very first day a stranger in a grocery store
tried to hook me into this Amway crap, I realized that it wasnt a cool
thing. Im also a computer programmer and I love my profession. I dont
want to sell soap or worse still lose my friends and become a parasite
living off sucking other people's hard earned money.
I hope many more people all over the world read your story and start
thinking clearly. Earlier I used to think of this Amway thing as a big
joke. Now Im scared of it after reading your story.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Fri, 26 Jun 1998
OK, I've read all thru your story and here goes....
Amway has launched in India since May, although prelaunch activities
were on since January. I attended the initial meets, then i dropped out
since i was busy, and have now finally signed up about a week ago...not
becoz someone aggressively pushed me into it ( have been a Salesman for
about 15 years so that would have been difficult :-), but becoz i would
like to explore this business possibility further.
Your basic concerns seem to be :
a) You found your Amway contacts too pushy... frankly i do not feel this
was the case with me. Also, don't you think you may have actually lead
them on .... with your "encouraging" feedbacks ?
b) For sure the Amway business is not for everyone...i did not research
the Internet to come to this conclusion but in any scheme which involves
building a chain, the last links of the chain are going to be at more of
a disadvantage than those at the top. This is simple logic.Similarly, in
any business opportunity there will be successes and there will be
failures. This does not make the business concept as such to be bad.
c) Any business exists to profit. Same is true for Amway. We as a
consumer have a right to consume whatever we deem fit, per our
requirements, perceptions etc. All the businesses whio have been
operative for a long time are profitable, otherwise they would have
folded up long ago. So, are all businesses bad ?
I am not trying to convince you one way or another... i am simply trying
to get to the core of your disenchantmeent...if it is with the puushy
procedures adopted by your Amway uplines, i agree with you 100 %.
At the same time, was it totally ethical for you to go to their meet
and try to pass on anti-amway information in a hidden manner.... perhaps
simple courtesy demanded that you be completely upfront about it. Just
my opinion.
I do not know whether i'll succeed in my Amway distributorship, but
surely it will depend upon my efforts and those of others working under
me.
Will like to keep in touch with you...what are you doing nowadays ?
Subject: YOUR Amway story PLUS
Fri, 26 Jun 1998
Hi Guy.
Great story. Everything you say is true and false. The ideas given in your
senario fit you very well. The same opportunity you first saw was not all
hype. I agree there are some overzealous distributors who include people like
yourself in their "dreams and goals." If you had really been willing to give
a new idea your total emersion as you will do in your computer life, you well
would have seen an amazing change in your outlook.
Suffice it to say you almost tried and could have done well, however I
could give you some computer senarios from another perspective that could
change the mind of an intelligent young computer-oriented programmer who has
doubts about his abilities.
I am sorry your Amway introduction was for you so bad. It truely isn't so
for many people. I also saw the business from the organization you were
involved with. However in researching the lines of sponsorship, I was
relieved to learn they aren't all alike and even in the world of computers
there are some good people you wouldn't want to be associated with.
I must say your father did the right thing to allow you the chance to make
your own mind up and research the opportunity, good for him.
As in anything, unless you get "into" your computer world, you will be just
another "average" Dilbert.
I know because I wanted to be the best sign painter I could possibly be.
Well 35 years later I have a computer that I had to immerse myself in to
learn because in this trade the other guys don't care if you make it or not
and would prefer NOT. Less than 5% of the work is done now with a brush, and
however much software you buy is how good a sign-person you are.
Well thanks for indulging me this retort, and I really hope your ferver for
the computer will give you the life long desire never to quit learning and
become the complacent dollar driven average joe that can't save for his
future.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, then what is the quality of life when taken
so seriously?
Remember, as my computer guru asked, "What's the difference between a
computer and a brick if the power goes off?"
Opinions are like A_______(noses), everyone has one!
Work hard, Bill Gates still needs a competitor.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Sun, 28 Jun 1998
I stumbled across your site actually looking up "Primerica" as a friend and
collegue was recently approached by them. Lots of good info and a very
enjoyable story. I manage a electronics gadjet kiosk in mall in Canada and
I have started a game with my fellow employees. I call it MLM Hits! So far
the night shift person has racked up about 12 hits, I am just at 4 myself!
I usually cut them off when I mention that I want to get OUT of
sales and not into it. Now I have much more interesting ammo...
p.s. Nice to hear you had a successful internet meeting/relationship. I am
heading in that direction myself.
Subject:
Sun, 28 Jun 1998
I'm not writing to correct anything or complain. My wife and I are
currently being "harassed" by an Amway distributor who originally
claimed to be with a company "The Bailey Group." Only after he got his
"foot in the door" did we figure out that the company he represented was
Amway. I want to thank you for the FAQ's on your web site. A lot of
your answers to the common arguments for Amway from Amway people make
sense. The guy who is trying to recruit us uses Ray Kroc and Sam Walton
as "businessmen who have figured out that the distributorship system and
pyramid system works." To someone who doesn't have any business sense,
this may ring true. The recruiter also touched on the fact that I
already work in a pyramid system due to the fact that my boss,
supervisors, etc make more money than I do. I could go on and on, but
time is short.
I just wanted to thank you for the information. I don't plan on using
any of your answers to argue with this person who is persistent on
helping us to "financial freedom and early retirement." It is better
not to stoop to that level and argue because these guys are trained to
overcome all of the standard objections. The only objection that this
person cannot overcome is being told to simply "get lost." I can handle
being called "ignorant" by this person if means saving my wife, children
and me a lot of pressure from uplines, net losses, etc. that come with
being an Amway "distributor." Again, thanks for your wealth of
information.
Subject: amscam
Mon, 29 Jun 1998
I just read your amway story and must say that I am very impressed with your
knowledge. My husband and I , too, were almost snookered in by "The
Business" . I just wanted to join so I could buy amway laundry powder and
their "core" products for my mother - who absolutely adored using them,
swore by them, but didn't have an amway rep in her town (I won't say where
she lives for fear of the amway police listening in and trying to go get her
and recruit her) Anyway, we were wined and dined for about 6 weeks when I
decided to join up. Immediately my upline wanted me to but a tone of tapes-
I said No. He said I needed to listen to them. I told him I'd be glad to
borrow his. He told me that my husband and I needed to attend all these
rediculous rally's and meetings to motivate us to recruit our friends and
family. I told him that I was in no way wanting to recruit anyone, and
furthermore I am a school teacher and my husband, a police sergeant, our
time at home together was more precious than any amway rally. My upline was
a little annoyed to say the least!. I thank God everyday that I was raised
to be self supportive and strong-willed. I know that there are people out
there who have given up everything for "The Business", and I feel sorry for
them.
I have been buying amway products for abour 5 years now, and for the most
part they are pretty good. I love the car wash and the laundry products,
but for everything else - I love to go to Wal-Mart and Food World!. My
upline has all but given up on me. Last year they made it possible for me
to order directly from the warehouse in Norcross, Georgia rather than
calling in my measly little order every three or four months (it takes about
that long to use up a box of laundry powder) I find it convenient for me to
get my stuff delivered right to my door at no extra cost. I guess they
think of it as out of sight out of mind. Anyway, I guess I just wanted to
let you know that I commend you and respect you for standing up to them.
Way to Go.
Subject: Your AMWAY pages
Tue, 30 Jun 1998
A coworker has been sucked into the depths of Amway. Luckily, we're not
that close, so I like to sit back and needle her about wearing brand-new
Nikes and a purple shroud, waiting for the mothership to pick her up. I
also warn her not to drink the Kool-Aid offered up at the meetings. Since
*****'s plunge into Scamway, I've been reading up through the 'net all
the bad. My theory is...if we all believed in Amway (or the countless
number of infomercials on late night TV), and we all fell for the
"lose-weight-quick with (fill in the blank)" commercials, there'd be no fat,
poor Americans lining up for welfare and food stamps. We'd all be skinny
and rich.
So while Jennifer brags about retiring at age 35, I cast a cynical eye and
thank you (and the countless others) for the real information. To have such
blind faith scares the hell out of me...
Subject: amway cover story art
Wed, 01 Jul 1998
Peter Yeoh
Art Director
FW Weekly
Russell: FW Weekly is running a cover story on Amway and I'm having
difficulty finding relevant photos for the spread. Please let me know if
you have [or know of] any publishable picts on:
1. The main headquarters in Michigan
2. The CEO
3. The "Diamond" conventions/any Amway conferences
Please let me know as soon as possible.
Thanks.
Peter Yeoh
FW Weekly is the city weekly of Fort Worth, Texas, with over 35,000 in
circulation. It is independently-owned and not part of a chain.
Subject: Re: amway cover story art
Mon, 06 Jul 1998
Peter,
I don't have any photos. A better place to start looking for them would be
www.amway.com. If you scour their web page, you might find publicity shots.
You could also write to Amway and ask for such information.
It is some coincidence that you should write to me now, because I just
finished moving to Fort Worth! I suppose I ought to pick up a copy of your
article when in comes out.
What is your angle going to be on the corporation? If you read my web page,
you probably know that I am very opposed to Amway and their tactics.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Thu, 2 Jul 1998
Really and truly, a sad and pathetic person you are. More to come later.
Subject: Re: Your Amway story (part 3)
Mon, 06 Jul 1998
...I'm still waiting. :)
Subject: AMWHAT??
Thu, 2 Jul 1998
Hi Russell,
I found your Amway experience very amusing, obviously you have received both
support and bitter tirades against you, however I just wanted to commend you
on your writing. Very good. I am an English major, computer addict and a big
fan of people who can write effectively. Maybe you have a future in comedy.
It really (honestly) is just my 2 cents to say that I liked your writing
style and that so few people in our industry possess those skills. You are a
cat lover too, so anyone who thinks you are all bad MUST be wrong.
Here's to the future.
Best of luck
Subject: Your Amway page...
Thu, 2 Jul 1998
Hey Russ,
Great page you have up. I know you're not that "fired up" about Amway
anymore, but I was wondering what you knew about the different "fronts"
Amway distributors have been using (e.g., WorldWide Dreambuilders,
WorldWide Group). Their main selling point is that they as a group are
supportive and offer good training that is not given by distributors not
involved in the group. They tell you that you have access to the
knowledge of people who have gone diamond. The Ruby guy who was running
the Plan meeting actualy said he would make the time to make sure I made
direct if I joined (even though I would join under somebody else). Is
this typical of Amway recruiters? It sounds nice, but I have my doubts
about becoming a salesman (selling products/plans/dreams) and changing
my lifestyle to suit their image. Actually, it sounds pretty lame to me.
Sure, maybe you get a chance to make money, but talk about selling out.
We're talking about totally changing your life so you can join an elite
group. Sure, regular jobs expect the same of you in many respects, but
at least you are only answerable to yourself when you get home. At least
you don't have have to make friends with people you don't have any
interest in.
Anyway, back to the question! What's the deal with the Amway "fronts"
and are they really any different from other Amway distributor groups?
Subject: Great Site!
Thu, 2 Jul 1998
I was cruising through Yahoo and I found your page. Nice work. Keep it up!
Subject: Finished your Amway story...
Sat, 4 Jul 1998
Fantastic story!!!!. Here's why I checked out your site. While driving my
husbands truck this morning I noticed a plain grey envelope containing
brochures on 'this incredible business opportunity". Funny, the brochure
didn't mention what kind of 'opportunity' it was. My interest was piqued.
Then I discover a cassette tape in the tape player. I listened for maybe 10
minutes trying to figure out what 'fantastic business opportunity' it was. ( I
am a sucker for real estate gimicks) Then it hit me.... this is a f***ing
Amway tape. Enough said.. My hubby has a lot of explaining to do
Subject: Your Amway page...
Sat, 04 Jul 1998
Hello:
Do you love working the 40/40 plan? You know 40 hours a week for 40 years
and then get told you are too old to work and treated like yeasterdays new.
If this is you and you like it, then please enjoy the 40/40 plan and life a
very futile life. I am a House manager for a homeless shelter and I work
160 hours a week helping people get back on there feet.
I found out that in 40 years if my job lasts that long, I willl have nothing
to look foward too except debt, debt, and more debt.
I have been a amway distributor for over a year and Yes I have made good
money in it. I now work 48 hours a week and work plan B 5 days a week
helping others who want to do better get there.
I am sorry that it did not work out for you and I hope that the 40/40 plan
pays for your retirement.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Sat, 04 Jul 1998
Absolutely fantastic!!!
I went through an almost IDENTICAL situation with AMWAY almost 20 years
ago and find, after reading your entire site (couldn't stop), that
you've done what I wish I had done then.
Simply beautiful!
Subject: YourAmwaystory(part3)dude_what a pathetic little tale
Sun, 5 Jul 1998
Subject: I would like your Help
Mon, 06 Jul 1998
Russel,
We represent a compnay with very honest and sincere intentions, that build its
business around MLM. We would like to position our services initially that
bypasses the stigma associated with Amway. Can you advice what we should or
should not do when starting up this venture when selling the concept to people.
Subject: Your Amway page...
Mon, 06 Jul 1998
I appreciate your site. My wife and I were involved in "The Business"
from 1989 until 1994. We attended several major functions, bought
thousands of dollars of "tools"; even sold items to get the money to
attend functions and such. I got out of the army after ten years to
build the "business" and become the Kenny Stewart of Tennessee! Needless
to say we "failed".
We are not bitter though. Now we have jobs we both love; and since we
don't have a "Dream" any more, we are happier, making more money than we
ever have made, and have more time (and money) for what we want to do.
When I had a "Dream", all I thought about was money and how broke we
were. Each time I showed the plan and they didn't get in; they were
"losers". We drove many miles and bought a GOB of Bu$ine$$ $upport
Material$.
What made us quit? A few occurrences and observations such as working on
Kenny Stewart's cabin in Missouri and never receiving the money
promised, witnessing items becoming "backorders" because the upline
distributor was out of the item and forgot to order his own, and being
told when I did become successful I had to buy a Cadillac (a Lincoln was
not good enough), etc, etc, etc.
Anyway, I could have used a site like yours several years ago and ALL
the truth would have been known. Keep up the GOOD work!
Subject: Your Amway story (part 3)
Mon, 6 Jul 1998
I have been an Amway distributor for over five years. i have made no money
because I have chosen not to. All I do is buy wholesale. I have listened to
over two hundred tapes. I still have my friends and family. I've gone to bog
and small meetings. I still feel quite normal.
You always say AMWAY this and AMWAY that. Every distributor belongs to an
organization independent of AMWAY. Amway does not produce the tapes or review
them. Did you hear the disclaimer at the end of the tape? Obviously not. Each
organization works differently.
You are obviously a young man. You think you have answers to everything.
You glory attention. This is your stage . The internet. You love an audience.
I'm sure you have it. Amway has allways been a subject of controversy and
allways will.
I'm a realtor. In my profession are all kinds of people. A few give us a bad
reputation. It is the same in any business. It is the same in Amway.
I found your article amusing and ridiculous. Not informative or
educational.Good luck.
A happy distributor.
Subject: Your Amway story (part 2)
Mon, 06 Jul 1998
Hello,
I don't have an 'Amway' story and I am not going to flame you.
I have much less of a horror story dealing with another MLM called World
Marketing Alliance. It probably comes as no surprise that most if not
all MLM's use the mind control techniques to some degree, and my
experience was no exception. I was quite fortunate. I was cautious and
doubtful from the get-go, I was surrounded by people who continously
told me it was a bad idea, I didn't lose my marriage and my wife refused
to get involved from the start, and I didn't lose that much money. I
also only really lost one friend out of it, the "friend" who brought me
into the "business". I noticed that WMA doesn't have a disgruntled site
about it yet on the web. Seeing your site has encouraged me to go make
one. I feel very blessed that I never got in as deep as many I have
read about, and I would like to thank you personally for your help in
this. My friends helped me by providing links to websites like this one
and to Van Druff's "What's wrong with multi-level marketing" article.
It was through things like that I was able to back up and really take a
look at what they were asking me to do and what they wanted me to give
up. Thank you for your efforts. I am sure you get flamed alot from
Amtypes who have been conditioned to repeat what the mind controllers
tell them. But please realize that you do and have helped people you
may never know, reached people who were tetoring on the brink and
convinced them to walk away from it. Your efforts on this site are
appreciated and they are a kind and good effort. As one of the silent
masses who read your site and ones like them, let me say THANK YOU.
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